#because theres merit to some of the thing he's said

[not-a-snowman]

Okay so (and this is a genuine question) do we actually KNOW what Mephone4's age is? I assumed he was an adult because of the voice and general demeanor, but we know from flashbacks that, on account of being essentially a robot, he has sounded like an adult pretty much his entire existence. Cobbs in episode 16 constantly referring to him as being a "kid" and "young" is absolutely a tactic in order to downplay Mephone4's autonomy, intelligence, and overall independence... but it is making me wonder if its a pure lie (Mephone4 isn't young) or an exaggeration of reality (Mephone4 IS young but is far more independent and capable than Cobbs is making him out to be) I'm trying to think of an instance that proves it one way or the other. I WOULD point at the prison and trial episode, but while Cobbs could be lying about it being fabricated, he does specifically call out the truthful strangeness of how Mephone4's prison sentence only lasted one day... something that was acceptable enough at the time, because of the nature of the show, but the actual acknowledgement OF it being strange implies it is abnormal, and likely fabricated

Mostly asking because I've seen some folks being very confident about it being one way or the other but not a lot about why that is.

[weirdmageddon]

long mediation on jade and dave’s relationship - part 2

part 1 is here

this part is essentially about dave and jade’s personalities, their basic dynamic, and how it works. and addressing some things ive seen said about dave in moments that people remove from context because they dont weigh these contexts and prior ones. if you want a post that goes into dave’s attitude towards jade (conclusion: he cares about her a lot) here it is

part 2: switcheroo + misconceptions about dave's role in dave and jade's relationship

something interesting i realized while writing this is the thing about grimbark jade is that she is no nonsense when her normal self is all about nonsense and entertaining silly things because she can see the merit in them. in fact she is always having a chuckle caused by dave's sense of humor and im sure dave got used to interacting with jade like that so wtf with grimbark jade

EB: so i think i have to get TG to use his copy to save her! EB: but that jackass won't shut up and stop rapping and stuff. GG: hahaha GG: he is so silly! (p.293)

TG: snows a big chilly carpet of nobody gives a shit TG: like old man winter spread around his nasty mayonnaise and turned the landscape into his personal asshole sandwich GG: eww dave no TG: when i look around all i see is the miles of unharnessed snowmen im just too damn cool to build GG: no this is so lame GG: i am hearing an insane and stupid guy say stupid idiot things while wearing dumb sunglasses for lame morons! TG: whoa jade with the fucking haymaker TG: i need to go look for my teeth on the canvas as soon as shit stops spinning and there stops being like ten of you GG: heheheh GG: why dont we play in the snow later (p.3024)

GG: i cant get over how tiny this thing is! GG: its so cute GG: so the baby frogs show up on this pad here? GA: Yes GG: i cant wait to try it GA: What Are You Laughing At There GG: oh GG: lol GG: dave just has a lot of funny stuff to say about all this GA: What Is He Saying GG: oh you know, a bunch of silly stuff GG: theres too much to copy/paste! GA: Hmm GG: here ill save it all to a file and send it to you -- gardenGnostic [GG] sent grimAuxiliatrix [GA] the file "daveisafunnyguy.txt" -- GA: Okay Im Laughing Pretty Hard At All That GG: hahaha (p.3312)

JADE: *snicker* JOHN: what? JADE: nothing JOHN: is someone messaging you through the game? JADE: hehe JOHN: who is it? JADE: pffff! JOHN: dammit, jade... JADE: its davesprite, hes playing too JOHN: oh. JOHN: don't tell him any of our strategies. he is the enemy! JADE: we have strategies? JOHN: um... JOHN: ok, first, tell him we have strategies. then, don't tell him them. JADE: hahahahahahaha JOHN: oh god. JOHN: what is it now? JADE: did you know... JADE: davesprite is a funny guy? JOHN: meh, he's alright i guess. JOHN: i give most of his jokes a passing grade. sometimes as high as a solid b+! JADE: i just told him you said that JADE: davesprite says to tell you "youre basically welcome for being born 14 years ago and 1 year ago you ungrateful douche" JOHN: oh, like him taking credit for my existence isn't so old by now! (p.4732)

in a way i feel like their roles parallel dave and jade in the earlier acts from homestuck, but inverted (and twisted/not as nice cause grimbark jade is under nefarious influences)

dave approaches the world from a highly pragmatic position. his ego (in the purely psychoanalytical sense) that he holds himself to, shows to the world, and what he tends to reason through is one that’s about relaxed competence. he’s critical of unreasonable actions and takes it upon himself to guide others into being more efficient in practical, realistic ways. he sees that jade struggles in these initially but she readily accepts his help, which is more than glad to provide.

this doesn’t say anything bad about jade harley. this doesn’t make her stupid, or in need the saving from a knight in shining armor nor does it make dave condescending towards her. it’s information that he is able to provide and that she appreciates and trusts his assistance with while she sees through the things that she prioritizes like helping others with matters of hidden opportunities / the big picture and interpersonal needs which are completely out of dave’s league, something he highly respects but doesnt feel its his greatest asset towards other people like jade does. jade is very into science and gadgetry, but remember that she relies heavily on her sharp intuition rather than straight up pragmatism like dave would. jade really is exceptional and multitalented but she doesn’t know how she does the things she does half the time!

(p.790)

even though dave acknowledges this it doesn’t really bother him

TG: hey TG: oh TG: youre asleep again arent you TG: or do you even know if you are TG: i still dont know how that works TG: its like nothing means anything TG: its so cool getting hella chumped by your coquettish damn riddles all the time TG: i dont know why i believe anything you say im like the grand marshal of gross chumpage (p.829)

GG: i want to tell him happy birthday and ask him about his birthday package! TG: oh yeah TG: i was being sort of cagey and told him to check the mail cause i was wondering if mine came yet GG: i think it did! TG: yeah? GG: and i think mine came too TG: so uh TG: i guess you want to know if he likes it or something? GG: no!!!!!!! GG: he will not open it GG: he will lose it!!! TG: oh TG: uh TG: wow sorry to hear that i guess? GG: no its good actually! GG: because he will find it again later when he really needs it GG: which of course is why i sent it in the first place! TG: see like TG: i never get how you know these things GG: i dont know GG: i just know that i know! TG: hmm alright (p.382)

TT: Jade is connected with you? TT: Where did she get the discs? TG: i dont know how does she do any of the loopy batshit nonsense she does (p.1401)

but because she’s gotten by on intuition and her dreams for most things, she’s not as adapted to the rationale behind actions. dave can sense her struggling and wants to help because it’s basically his mission for everyone, not just jade. but that’s the information that jade is glad to be led by and continues to unconsciously prompt him with. she encourages his practical ways and doesn’t tell him to fuck off or just straight up ignore his advice which dave interprets as his strengths being needed by someone else

GG: dave! GG: are you busy? GG: i dont have much time! GG: i am about to make my entry item, and its a little confusing GG: i think the more players we add, the trickier they are to... um...... GG: activate! GG: like yours was GG: i figured we could brainstorm about it, while john fusses with the kernel GG: helloooooo? TG: nak nak nak GG: :o (p.2907)

TG: yeah honestly i figured wed have to do something like this TG: so i guess here we are doing it GG: doing what?? TG: well youre my server player remember GG: yes TG: i need you to deploy something first TG: in my apartment TG: in a few hours ill go back there and we can continue this GG: oh jeez, a few hours???? -- turntechGodhead [TG] ceased pestering gardenGnostic [GG] -- -- turntechGodhead [TG] began pestering gardenGnostic [GG] -- TG: yeah TG: as in a few seconds TG: im back at my place now GG: fastest hours :o TG: yeah TG: now TG: deploy the intellibeam laserstation GG: but that costs so much grist!!! TG: no it costs practically nothing TG: check out how much ive got GG: omg... GG: what does this thing do? TG: its mostly pretty stupid and useless TG: but itll come in handy here TG: it reads captcha codes GG: on the back of cards? TG: yeah GG: but GG: we can already read those! TG: some are too garbled and complicated TG: the human eye cant decipher them TG: needs sophisticated scanning technology TG: and artificial intelligence to figure it out GG: hmm GG: but isnt the whole point of captchas that only humans can read them? GG: and not robots??? TG: yeah well TG: thats why this is so dumb (p.3025 / 3026)

TG: thisll be the disc i use for your connection TG: while the original will stay bound to roses connection GG: so you will be the server for BOTH us ladies??? GG: you just keep getting smoother, i cant handle all this smoothness TG: well technically TG: i will be your server TG: and past me will stay as roses server TG: which is to say present me will TG: the one in the black suit GG: ohh... GG: i guess that makes sense TG: he can keep managing her for a while TG: until she sorta checks out soon and becomes totally useless TG: then he can start hopping around time like i did TG: make a ton of money and stuff TG: eventually become me TG: and become your server player GG: ok i think i understand that! TG: yeah see its not hard to get the hang of TG: in the meantime ill kind of loiter around this timeframe to help you out for a while GG: yessss thanks dave <3

TG: im just going to cut right to the chase and upgrade your alchemiter so you can avoid a lot of bullshit TG: ill give you some codes and you can punch cards and slip em into jumper blocks GG: yaaaaaaaaaaaay! (p.3030 - 3032)

jade has strengths that dave has weaknesses in too, which dave himself points out!!!

TG: ok so TG: the egg is now in a nest made of shitty swords and soft puppet ass TG: please advise GG: i think your sprite wants to hatch it! GG: awww TG: do you think thatll take more than four hours GG: hmm... GG: i dont know it looks like its pretty warm where you are TG: its hot as the sizzle side of the steak GG: maybe not too long then???? GG: i guess we'll find out! TG: maybe i should try to get it back TG: and put it in the microwave GG: :( (p.1507)

dave assumed the egg needed to be heated to break and allow him to enter the game, so his course of action is to go up there and get it himself and use whatever means are at his disposal. that is a logical, straightforward thing to do. he doesnt rely on uncertainty and blind trust that things will just work out when he has the ability to take action in a way that makes sense; that’s jade’s thing. but it turns out jade’s intuition for how to solve dave’s entry puzzle was right! it was actually a test of patience. he later says this to jade

GG: you guys are all so much better than me, i feel sooooo lame TG: we all start out somewhere TG: remember how i was scrambling up that tower to get that egg like an idiot TG: what the hell was i doing TG: i was like goddamn pooh bear in a tree reaching up his fat fuckin pooh paw for some mother fuckin honey GG: heehee TG: so even though im awesome now at one point i was plausibly likened to an autistic stuffed animal TG: and you even knew what to do TG: you told me how it worked all christopher robinning my ignorant ass about that egg TG: but i was all like IM A LITTLE BLACK RAIN CLOUD BITCH WATCH ME CLIMB TG: so maybe youre startin out with more sense than me GG: maaaybe GG: :) (p.3025)

hes pretty much like jade's hypeman but in his own sort of lowkey way and is actually sweetly reassuring to her. this includes davesprite btw

GG: those stupid things are impossible to kill :( TG: no you can kill them TG: youll get better dont worry (p.3024)

GG: hmmmm... GG: i dont know if i get that but ok! TG: well yeah TG: my thing is time yours is space TG: pretty different things TG: you GET things about space i dont TG: or you will GG: i will? TG: yup (p.3024)

DAVESPRITE: as a sprite im supposed to help him with his quest JADESPRITE: oh yeah JADESPRITE: im supposed to help jade too, but...... JADESPRITE: *sniffle* DAVESPRITE: shes doing alright dont worry about it JADESPRITE: ok, ill try... JADESPRITE: shes a lot more brave than me i think JADESPRITE: she brought me back thinking i could help her and all i did was disappoint her and everyone else JADESPRITE: you came back as a sprite and youre managing to do important things... JADESPRITE: but i just feel so scared and helpless DAVESPRITE: sounds like you came back because jade made the decision for you DAVESPRITE: i made the decision to come back myself maybe itd be different if you had the same chance JADESPRITE: i dont know if i would have if i had the chance JADESPRITE: but i would like to not feel so useless to everybody DAVESPRITE: i think everyones on top of this DAVESPRITE: theres not much for us to do anymore (p.3927)

DAVESPRITE: so jade must have done something right DAVESPRITE: to wake her up and get the forge going DAVESPRITE: dont know what she did though JADESPRITE: probably something amazing JADESPRITE: she is still working so hard to help everyone JADESPRITE: i guess i used to be that way... JADESPRITE: but ive completely forgotten how DAVESPRITE: are you sure (p.3945)

JADESPRITE: it reminds me of when i died JADESPRITE: and i was trying to wake john up JADESPRITE: i was scared then too JADESPRITE: but i didnt let the fear stop me from trying to save him DAVESPRITE: what would you want to do DAVESPRITE: if you werent scared JADESPRITE: i have no idea JADESPRITE: i guess try to help JADESPRITE: what is there to do? DAVESPRITE: well DAVESPRITE: i was going to bring this sword to dave JADESPRITE: oh noo JADESPRITE: does that mean youre going to leave? DAVESPRITE: no DAVESPRITE: i was gonna say DAVESPRITE: im not in any shape for more adventuring DAVESPRITE: i figure this is probably my last stop JADESPRITE: :( DAVESPRITE: but maybe this is a way you can help JADESPRITE: you mean... JADESPRITE: that i should give him the sword? DAVESPRITE: if you want JADESPRITE: but i dont want to leave you here either DAVESPRITE: maybe you dont have to actually go anywhere DAVESPRITE: you oughta have a lot of special powers remember DAVESPRITE: because of ascending to doghood JADESPRITE: oh yeah! DAVESPRITE: try doing your spacey thing DAVESPRITE: i mean not to sound condescending or anything but its got to be like borderline omnipotence pretty much DAVESPRITE: just put your mind to it (p.3946)

knowing all of this about dave and jade’s personalities and how they work together, i’ve see people get on dave’s case about making jade slap herself in the face after she put the dead bird into his kernelsprite while he was preoccupied with taking a leak

dave freaks the hell out when he realizes she’s asleep; he needs to wake her up because she needs to help him get into the game while requires pragmatism and reasonable actions so that he’s not crushed to death by an imminent meteor. or falling plumbing fixtures. the goal wasn’t to show her who’s in control or whatever or to be mean (do people seriously think he would do that to be mean to her just to slap a girl?) it was strictly to wake her up since he has no means of influencing that besides getting creative

while asleep, jade doesn’t think logically and certainty not to the extent dave needs her to be right now. she’s scattered lalalalala and can forget about limitations or consequences in the real world and also has a short memory span while dreaming: e.g. “4 hours until what?” and she put something into the kernelsprite right after dave asked her not to because she forgor </3 and jade does acknowledge this about her dreaming self btw

GG: i mean, i only talked to you when i was asleep! i am kind of different when im dreaming... GG: i forget things, and at times im not totally sure whats real GG: dont you remember thats what its like to dream on prospit? (p.3056)

dave literally says “we need to wake you up youre not very logical like this” and he does apologize about making her dreambot wake-up slap her

i also see people say that dave thought of jade as helpless and he needs to be the hero and that's why "davejade is not good actually"

TG: but ok i mean isnt that what heroes should be doing TG: working to take down the bad guy without a whole lot of this fuckin grandiloquence and these huge sweeping plans that got nothin to do with fighting him TG: like always biding our time and tiptoeing around the unbeatable god boss TG: johns too nice to get mad TG: rose spends all her time calculating TG: too focused on machiavellian ploys of sabotage to try anything drastic TG: jade is TG: i dont even know TG: probably more a liability if she got it in her head to take him down TG: if anything id bet she just needs protection GC: WH4T 4R3 YOU S4Y1NG H3R3 D4V3, 1N TH1S CONV3RS4T1ON TH4T 1S ST1LL B31NG 4BOUT YOU TG: im just wondering TG: when does someone actually step up TG: jacks got shit to pay for (p.3703)

this minor thread gets followed up on in the pesterlog where jade contacts dave and eventually she concludes jack needs to be stopped and dave's like ... "oh shit" in his head. "oh shit" as in jade's got Game good for her go jade, "oh shit" as in she's going to be ripe for the stabbing cause the idea is in her head now, and "oh shit" as in this moment is the seed of why im going to have to rehearse jade accidentally killing me over and over and i cant tell her about it. due to this he is always fated to die in the alpha timeline both standing up to jack and to protect jade. it's woven into his story. but he was wrong about everyone else also! which i dont see brought up when that quote is used? rose does something drastic (pilots the moon into the furthest ring) and john gets mad (on the ship) and jade is the opposite of needing protection (she’s the only one jack won’t stab and also she ends up so fucking OP she has to be basically written out of act 6) so it's less a thing about jade specifically but to show that in hindsight dave was wrong about ALL his friends. which is an interesting discussion to be had about him in itself, but not now. this is the most sane and well-thought out interpretation of it ive seen

"In general, though, I think Dave has a tendency not uncommon to [thirteen] year olds (or… humans in general, if we’re being honest here) to cast everyone else as a player in his own story and characterize them in ways that fit what he wants. There’s the famous chunk where he says John never gets angry, Rose will never stop scheming long enough to take action, and Jade’s a liability, only to be proven wrong in every count. That fits his understanding of these people and his ideal relationship with them - friend, actor, protector, the one in the group who can be the hero." "Yes, I think Dave probably saw Jade as the most supportive and least judgmental friend. I’m not sure if that impacted his incorrect judgment of her since that’s kind of a pattern for him in general, but I guess it could’ve."

and also putting this solely on dave is kind of ... ehhhhh? because john says the same thing about jade but i don't see anyone getting on his case for it.

CG: SHE AND DAVE RAN INTO JACK, WHICH I'M SURE HE MUST HAVE SAW COMING BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE EXPLOIT TIME TRAVEL SO SHAMELESSLY AS HIM, NOT EVEN ARADIA. CG: SO SHE AND DAVE FOUGHT WITH HIM A WHILE, AND LONG STORY SHORT, HE DIED. EB: what!!! CG: BUT IT'S FINE, I GUESS THAT WAS HIS PLAN, LIKE SOME BIZARRE USELESS LAST STAND, EVEN IF HE DIDN'T TELL JADE WHO WAS PRETTY FREAKED OUT UNTIL I TALKED HER THROUGH IT. CG: JADE SAYS SHE HAS THIS FIGURED OUT, AND I DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO MUCH BUT TRUST HER. CG: THE POINT IS, SHE'S ALL BOOKED UP, AND ALL TOO MORTAL. SO SHE WON'T BE DELIVERING THE BOMB, AND NEITHER WILL YOU. EB: ok, well what about this. EB: since she is mortal, and i am not (sort of), and i don't need to do the scratch for a while, can i go help her? EB: maybe she could use some protection? maybe that is what dave was just trying to do, when he temporarily died. EB: remember, jack is still on the loose! he has killed rose and dave once, and me twice. CG: NO NO NO NO NO NO. CG: SWEET BLEEDING JEGUS, EGBERT, YOU KEEP BRAGGING ABOUT YOUR IMMORTALITY, AND THEN BRAINLESSLY ANNOUNCE PLANS TO GO OFF AND DO SOMETHING HEROIC! YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SHORTEST LIFESPAN OF ANY IMMORTAL IN HISTORY. EB: sorry. :( CG: BESIDES, IT'S A TOTAL NON ISSUE. JACK WOULDN'T HESITATE TO STAB YOU AGAIN, BUT HE WON'T HURT JADE FOR SOME REASON. CG: IF ANYTHING, YOU COULD USE HER PROTECTION. (p.3869 / 3871)

and also keep in mind dave does absolutely change his perception about jade's strength??

DAVE: youll probably annihilate me worse than my bro used to DAVE: dont you have all of your dogs insane powers and like DAVE: god tier space powers on top of all that DAVE: how exactly am i supposed to compete with that (p.6384)

DAVE: gotta keep em napping DAVE: especially jade im sure you know what kind of crooked ass baloneyfuck powers she got DAVE: cant let her turn those against us (p.7485)

so back to grimbark jade and the switching of these roles, dave doesn’t entirely lose his pragmatic bent. that’s still the way he thinks about stuff through but his time on the meteor has softened him and allowed him to become more reflective on big-picture things such as his role in everything

ironically this is the exact reason for his clash with grimbark jade is because she’s trying really hard to make him do stuff and it’s stuff that he’s not going to budge on because he doesn’t think it’s practical

JADE: why not? JADE: our empress can hardly have a knight with such rusty combat skills in her service DAVE: will you cut it out with the evil jade baloney DAVE: im not going to fight you DAVE: my rooftop dueling days are OVER JADE: en garde! DAVE: ugh DAVE: even if we just went balls out jackass BANANAS with our swords here i mean realistically how much appreciable advancement in my battle skills would even result from that DAVE: are you actually thinking this through or just going through the vaguely nefarious motions that come with the territory of being evildog!jade JADE: im gonna go through the vaguely nefarious motions of kicking your ass in a minute if you dont put up your dukes!!! DAVE: yeah you probably will DAVE: youll probably annihilate me worse than my bro used to DAVE: dont you have all of your dogs insane powers and like DAVE: god tier space powers on top of all that DAVE: how exactly am i supposed to compete with that JADE: by using your time trickery! JADE: come on dave do your timey thing JADE: get creative, make lots of copies of yourself or something... outsmart me! DAVE: no! JADE: yes!!! DAVE: ok here i go JADE: !!!!! DAVE: wait DAVE: nah JADE: grrr JADE: dave, just try a little time travel to get this fight started JADE: see look, one of your time doubles is surely predestined to come from a few minutes in the future and appear behind me for a surprise attack, riiiight about... JADE: now! JADE: ... JADE: no wait JADE: riiiiiiiiiight... JADE: ... JADE: ... JADE: NOW! JADE: .... JADE: ..... JADE: dave why is your future self being such a wet blanket DAVE: i told you DAVE: im not time traveling DAVE: i think im giving it up for good actually (p.6384)

one thing floral mentions in her post is that dave is pushing jade for answers about her failed relationship with davesprite

DAVE: why are you dragging that guy into this DAVE: what happened with you and him anyway JADE: none of your business >:p DAVE: it kind of is DAVE: hes bird me DAVE: that clearly means i have a right to know JADE: that doesnt make any sense! DAVE: you said he had issues DAVE: what issues JADE: augh! JADE: forget i mentioned it DAVE: was he talking shit about me the whole time or something DAVE: i know he resents me for being the real dave JADE: dont say that, you arent the real dave! JADE: well you are, but phrasing it like that is so mean! JADE: hes just as real as you, and when you imply he isnt you sound like a jerk!!! DAVE: man i knew it DAVE: i knew he was poisoning your view of me all those years DAVE: and i wasnt there to say anything or defend against his slander so now of course you think im a neurotic douche (p.6386)

and while it is true nobody is obligated to share the details of their relationship, there is a LOT of evidence to believe dave was asking because he wants to be a good person and, to me his words here, and his past and future actions relative to this point, show that he’s not as messed up of a person as grimbark jade is making him out to be. let’s dive into it. think on this: why does dave care so much what jade thinks about him? he started getting “neurotic” halfway through the conversation once jade brought up her feelings about him

JADE: THE ONLY REASON I THINK YOURE A NEUROTIC DOUCHE IS BECAUSE YOURE ACTING LIKE ONE NOW!!! DAVE: yeah but i only started acting like a neurotic douche like half way through this conversation DAVE: you clearly had an axe to grind with me from the start and i want to know why DAVE: what did i ever do to deserve this shit from you JADE: YOU BROKE MY HEART!!!!!! DAVE: what DAVE: i did DAVE: when (p.6386)

he’s genuinely so lost because he hadn’t had contact with any extension of jade in 3 years. alpha timeline dave has been sensitive towards jade for basically forever and especially now that he’s had time to grow up. he is not going to allow any version of himself hurt jade, and thats why hes asking so many questions to her about the nature of the relationship and what happened

JADE: ok not you JADE: davesprite did JADE: BUT YOURE BASICALLY THE SAME GUY! DAVE: whoa no way DAVE: thats such an unfair characterization we are completely different dudes JADE: you just said you had a right to know what happened between us because, and i quote, "hes bird me" DAVE: no i know DAVE: i was playing the "hes bird me" card because it was convenient to whatever it was i was saying at the time DAVE: i forget what point i was making when i said that JADE: *growl* DAVE: but thats not the point im making now DAVE: he and me are just DAVE: crazy different yo DAVE: hes got fuckin wings!!! DAVE: he also presumably takes a dump and lays eggs out of the same ghostly hole DAVE: ... DAVE: ew man whyd i have to go there JADE: *SNARL* DAVE: ok if he broke up with you or whatever that was because of his dumb bird issues not my issues DAVE: theres no way i would have done that to you (p.6386)

what dave means to say by “hes bird me because it was convenient to say at the time but it doesnt apply to this circumstance” is exactly what i was getting at in part 1 of this series of posts. yes, they are the same people at their very foundation, different reflections of a single character, but up to a point. there’s a gray area of whether or not we can call dave and davesprite the same person. in terms of this conflict though, dave should be regarded as a separate individual because of their diverging history up to that point and adolescent-teenage growth in different environments and under different circumstances. even if dave doesn't know what hes trying to say

he wants to know what this alternate version of himself did to hurt jade so much. even if grimbark jade really is bringing dave into some shit he had nothing to do with.

see the thing is, to me dave could have easily handled being accused a lot worse and say something like “youre overreacting” or something. that wouldve been dickish. but he doesn’t, he never does. he really seems to be more motivated by like, “woah what?? whats his problem? are these about issues i still have and dont know they were hurting jade or are they uniquely davesprite’s?”

like, this isn’t a joke to him even if his main form of communication through humor to lighten the mood (jade loves dave’s silliness dont forget all the times she’s giggled because dave was “so silly” and “hes a funny guy”). immediately after rescuing the mayor from eviljade’s lava kick, he was going to give davesprite a piece of his mind and this shows he is sincerely concerned about what an alternate version of himself did to break jade’s heart. he REALLY fuckin wants closure on it because he cares about her feelings so much

i don’t see this other side covered in floral’s post, but evildog jade here is Also pushing dave to do something that he is uncomfortable with as well, which is to use time travel.

dave stopped time traveling so he wouldn’t “have to wonder all the time if i was taking a wrong turn and dooming everybody”, stating he was “never that cool with it” to rose back in act 5. around the same time when karkat talks to john, he says “TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE DOESN'T TIME TRAVEL AFTER [FIGHTING JACK WITH JADE], AND HE AND ROSE STAY ON DERSE WAITING FOR THE BOMB UNTIL YOU START THE SCRATCH” which honestly makes me think that whole event was the nail in the coffin for dave on time traveling. seeing himself die fighting jack and knowing it was coming and he couldnt tell jade no matter how much he wanted to that her bullets were going to be the cause. this is the last straw for him regarding time traveling it affected him that much

remember the last lines of pesterlog jade had with dave before being separated? i mentioned it earlier--the one where jade decided jack needs to be stopped and they should “come up with a better plan than Rose’s suicide mission to stop him. Dave suggests the idea is futile, but lets her know she’d come to her own decision regardless, and he’d be available to talk later if needed” (from recap 3)

GG: well maybe im just being naive... GG: but a crazy suicide mission does not sound like the ideal solution to me! GG: are you suuuure we cant beat him? GG: i dont know if we should rule it out! TG: well TG: youre about to do what youre about to do TG: and im not going to tell you not to TG: i wont do the bullshit troll thing and tell you what youre going to do and then just dare you not to TG: while knowing damn well you will anyway TG: so ill just say TG: whats next is up to you TG: and if later you want to talk about it TG: im here GG: ok GG: thanks dave! (p.3204)

this was dave’s nice causality-free way of saying “youre going to end up killing me during the jack fight that winds up happening. i cant tell you that im going to die and that youre going to be the one to shoot me, because i know you wouldnt go through with it. that would drag us in a doomed timeline and we’d all die anyway, not just me. youre probably going to be freaked out when it happens since i can’t tell you this, so if you want to talk me about it later, ill be here for you”

which, first of all is, holy shit. he cares about her and her feelings so fucking much. and it’s nothing new

TT: What about why you went to fight Jack? TG: sure TG: i did that TG: because i wanted to TG: and because i was supposed to TT: Are you sure? TG: yeah i saw my future self fighting him so obviously that had to happen or else id be dead anyway TG: without even getting the satisfaction of standing up to him TT: So what about Jade? TG: what TT: You didn't tell her your expedition with her would result in your death, let alone one she'd inadvertently cause. TT: Or that she'd be stuck with the job of resuscitating you. Did you? TG: what am i really supposed to say TG: hey were gonna hunt frogs til you shoot me through the jack TG: then i die and youve got to make out with me TG: that kind of changes how the whole thing goes doesnt it TT: Not if you're "supposed to," right? TG: what does that even mean TT: I guess you're right. No reason to make an effort to empathize if doing so comes at the price of oblivion. TG: wtf TT: It must be comforting to have your ASPD tacitly supported by predestination. TG: aspd TT: Antisocial personality disorder. TG: oh no TG: this conversation just got bumrushed by a mudslide of fucking awful TT: It wasn't already awful, believing you might be dead? TG: you dont know anything TG: about what i was feeling or what happened on lofaf TG: you were all pavement faced and babbling your throefester speak and flipping off the shit with your own crazy deathwish thing why do you think you know what was going through my head TG: youre just assuming and throwing around psyche buzzwords like aspd complex disorder TG: im telling you if i said anything at all about it she probably doesnt even fire her gun once and all im doing is dragging her into a doomed timeline with me TT: I guess I'm learning to be impressed by your sense of obligation to inevitable misfortune. It's a strange case of inspiration through futility. TG: none of this is that big a deal TG: i just mentioned the basics to her TG: that id stop time traveling soon TG: break out of the loops TG: not have to wonder all the time if i was taking a wrong turn and dooming everybody TG: i was never that cool with this (p.3896)

dave got suddenly super fucking defensive about rose making assumptions about how he felt about fighting jack and knowing jade was going to inadvertently kill him, knowing damn well how jade reacts to seeing corpses (remember that time dave threw his slain body out the window so jade wouldnt see it because “it would probably freak her out”), and the fact that he couldn’t warn her to protect the alpha timeline and also protect both of them and everyone from falling into a doomed timeline. and he knew it was coming the whole time. he was right, rose didn’t know what was going through his head. but his defensiveness here means he had strong feelings about it. not only that but dave saying “whats next is up to you, and if later you want to talk about it, im here” shows the amount of trust he has towards her

we see him tell this to grimbark jade straight up his thought process for why he stopped time traveling. and it’s spot on with what i said. again, remember that this is the first conversation he has with jade after 3 years being separated

DAVE: but see with time travel DAVE: all the stuff about learning it so you dont have to use it is true DAVE: theres no good that can come of it DAVE: you can crunch the logic on the loops all you want DAVE: but all youre doing is painting yourself into a corner DAVE: creating inevitabilities you have to rehearse and enact or face death for yourself or everyone you know DAVE: and sometimes facing death is the very inevitability you have to rehearse DAVE: and then you wait and wait knowing its coming and knowing it has to happen DAVE: how do you think it made me feel when we were gathering up all those frogs DAVE: and i knew the whole time in a little while you would have to watch me get shot DAVE: but i couldnt say anything or it would mess it all up DAVE: all cause i thought it would be cool to be marty mcfuckin fly DAVE: but instead of shredding johnny b goode on guitar to get my parents to bang DAVE: my crowning performance was doing a funny dance while getting pumped full of lead JADE: ...... (p.6385)

and what fucking broke me yesterday was realizing after all this time, ironically it was DAVE who wound up being the one who had to talk to jade about it.

JADE: sorry dave, you lost me there after the part where i shot you DAVE: damn DAVE: ok lemme start over (p.6385)

“damn ok lemme start over” bro he really wants to open up to her about this thing he’s been stewing on for three years only for it to fall on deaf mind controlled ears. it’s so fucking sad

part 3 is cooking and it’s going to be about dave’s character growth post-meteor and what that means for dave and jade

[justanothersyscourse]

Hi, I like your blog and really enjoy the articles and data you publish it’s very interesting. I wanted to pick your brain about your stance on psychiatric abuse for DID. Like, how do you feel about kluft because he is the bane of my existence. If you really wanna get into it I worked with colin ross in person who was the head of the international institute of trauma. Hes horrific. I think the thing that bothers me the most is I belive at some point i stumbled on a psychiatric guide for therapists on how to handle DID written by kluft (it was older, thank god, maybe 1990?) that said it is a-okay to hypnotize a paitent without their consent in order to gain access to alters.

On another note, I typically don’t do syscourse but from your stuff comes off to me as similar to the issue otherkin have with “kinnies” or kin for fun. Where theres a group of people who absolutely do not seem to give a fuck about a label and use it anyways. Even if it damages a legitimate community. I’ve met plenty of fine endos myself but. Yeah. Ive seen the other types around to.

Cool blog! Just wanted to bark at you /pos

OOOOHHHHHH my god, listen, I spoke with Colin Ross once to discuss some of his papers with him, and that man

That man

First-- thank you, hi, nice to meet you, welcome

Second-- I just want to put correct information out there so people can more easily figure out what they're experiencing ):

Third, have a rant of sorts, the last couple lines are about Ross, because I know that's what we're all waiting for

I am psych critical, there are good doctors and there are bad doctors, and then there are very bad doctors

The field of psychiatry is not the issue-- the field is good, the goal is good, the treatments are good when applied at the clients' request and with their consent-- IE, all treatments have merit (save for a select few "programs" that just flat out go against human rights), but not all treatments will work for everyone on a personal AND practical level-- both of which are required to make a treatment plan work

The doctors are where the issue is. And not all doctors are bad-- like any kind of relationship, people aren't going to mesh with everyone. Any doctor is good, provided THAT SPECIFIC CLIENT finds their treatment methods and approach to be both personally and practically effective.

Let's take the example of a Catholic therapist. Not conservative, just religious, and he uses that in his sessions-- not pushing it on his clients, but using it as a tool to help him and maybe try to bring a certain kind of positivity into the sessions. Me, being very unreligious, would be on the edge from the first mention. Depending on how he handles that reaction will decide whether he is a good or bad doctor for me. If he's a good doctor, he'll adjust his behaviour and approach accordingly, without a second thought. If he's a bad one, he'll ignore that reaction, and continue using his own methods, and I'll be off to try another therapist (easier said than done for most, I know, I was lucky to be born in Canada).

But here's the thing-- he's a VERY good therapist for the religious person in his next session. They find his approach to be empowering, they mesh well in the relationship, they're comfortable with each other and with bringing faith into the sessions. The client finds the methods used to be easy to utilize in their everyday life and simple to understand, and makes overall improvement. And that's what matters.

Now, if he's pushing his religious beliefs onto his clients, now he's a very bad doctor, and should not be licensed, and I will personally find him and drop kick him in the gender neutral tit.

And this can be extended to any doctor that performs any nonconsensual or unethical treatment on his clients. Psychiatric abuse happens far more than it should, and we should all be aware of it, and learn what to do when we see it (this will differ, depending on where you live).

In the case of research by doctors, it's a case by case basis for everything. Van der Hart abused clients, but that doesn't make a good portion of his research and work obsolete or wrong. He worked with two other doctors who weren't accused of anything, and the research is building off of others' work.

There's still viability in that specific research, despite what he did and despite what a shit doctor he was. Both can coexist. Knowing what he did, we need to be very critical when examining ALL his work. Did both Ross and Kluft put both good AND bad research into the field? Yes. Did they also do and say questionable things? A loud, resounding YES. No question. Should everyone be critical of their papers? Absolutely, always.

I have a "begrudging acceptance/hate" relationship with a lot of the big names out there. I'm critical of their actions and their work, but the validity of each and every individual article/book/experiment needs to be examined and compared against other (often questionable) research to decide whether there's any basis of use to it.

Do I think governing bodies need to be more proactive and stricter on those kinds of offences? Hell yeah. Do I want see doctors that do that crap held accountable? Fuck yes. Can I probably find a dozen other papers making the same point and stop using their names? If I can, I certainly will.

NOW COLIN ROSS

Has an ego

And continued to email me after our (very strange) conversation about different shows I could find him in and "fangirl" over

Yes, he said fangirl

Yes, I was shook

I desperately want to hear more about what it was like working with him, come back, tell me stories, please

EDIT: hold on, bear with me, I'm rethinking whether I actually know any useful Kluft articles

[theskyexists]

Watched Edge of Tomorrow. I like timetravel stories. I like horrors of war depicted as horrors of war. Confusing pretty horrific. theres poetry to a slimy army recruiter who's tricked millions forced into being a recruit himself sure. But that doesn't excuse the horrific violence of the state. Of course, it's a perfect war: the enemy are all-destructive monsters. It's not clear why they havent blasted through every front already except ofc that it was supposed to echo ww2. Tom cruise surprisingly pretty in a very generic brown haired man kind of way. I might feel that way because he's short. Emily blunt also SURPRISINGLY pretty - idk something about her face. Did this film need a pg rating so they weren't allowed to say 'bitch'? Or was it faux feminism. Either own it as merit or don't use it?

The plot made sense enough within its world. Ofc you can start poking obvious holes like: why wouldn't them aliens recognise him and deliberately NOT attack him if that's what it takes for him to lose the power? Or later it seemed like they wanted his blood so... attack him non-lethally? from the alien point of view they....acrually how DID the alien experience the time resets... For that matter if he lost the power then...couldn't the omega reset the day. I believe the power was exclusive? For some reason. But most importantly: why couldn't Rita simply have said (as the most star soldier in the whole place): I need to be dropped somewhere else - not the beach. Lol

Apparently this film was received as very feminist. Hmmmmmmm. HMMMMM.

There is this moment where they become a perfect killing team and finally make it past the front line and then it turns out that for some stupid reason they never manage to take a helicopter without either one of them dying. But she doesn't care? Or ? That he knows this? She'd rather die in battle apparently and wreck the heli or whatever? Which is the stupidest fucking bottleneck lol. Makes no sense character-wise, and is pretty much slander.. She doesn't care about her life. Ok. So but like - don't you care about the mission. Let's take the damn car.

AND THEN, HES LIKE - OK - ILL DO IT ALONE AND IT ACTUALLY FUCKING WORKS LOL!!!!! Apparently she was never necessary for getting through the front line!!!! He could do it alone!!!!! And he could start the heli alone too!!!! Even though we saw it instantly gets attacked!!! Doesn't even use the car. What the fuck lol. he even still has his power armour instead of it already being out of battery (?). But then the narrative forgets about how it discarded her skills and contributions and their teamwork as essential. And they're a team again. But to be fair is she even necessary? Yeah bc she saves him from being tied up. And they somehow have no problem getting back from the general's base despite him doing crazy shit like: giving them the stuff, then having them shot. But maybe general man did that bc he was trying not to get shot by Rita.

And thennnn. Shes been trying to kill this thing forever and then she's like you go do the bomb thing. Bc the narrative decided that he can't run anymore bc he needed to do the bomb thing. For the heroic moment and the reset from his pov.

Was really hoping for one last bit where she got blooded again by the blue one and she came back around for a better last assault for a nice lil reversal to even the dynamic but that wouldn't have fit either tempo or point of view.

The kiss was good though.

Don't think the relationship will work out however....

[scentedchildnacho]

Work jumper because I was seen planting....

He asked me if I had been by the marathon so I said their upper class people that give people a nazish vibes they don't like each other and make it very unlikely that people not with their system may like or tolerate them in anyway their to be isolated for white collar crime and attacked and if I'm told to stay away from its activity I try to take it in the best possible way....

They committed wealth crimes so I stay away from them because something attacks them

If they try to hit you with their cars they try to hit each other getting in and out of their driver side....

Its a marathon it's known for worst terrorist attacks so that's all they keep doing to that people....i try to ask if people are californians if they have some wisdom for me or have seen these types of things before and they don't really divulge without personal story money it's all that greedy

So that crotchy lady that wants to make my life a misery started speaking over me....so I apologized to him for ending the conversation it's not a suicide pogrom with my resilientcy lowered unless I think only socializing is their voice overs they have to be commercialized to reduce resilientcy and you have to listen to them they get to be the sadistic medicals then the crotchy misery would finally shut up and get out of people's face

I don't get suicidal because information helps me not internalize problems that's greedy mean fat ass that doesn't care stealing all the food stinks.....that's crotchy misery....that nigger stole someone's iPhone....their campy they do have violence problems

That awful blond lady with fat ass is a bitch.....it will try to talk meditatively important and she is a bitch

That's all I have learned of bipolar health and it's relations with people....people are rude ignorant crude annoying people so it's you are a bitch and that's all the world merits for bipolar health standards

New orleans fashion you even get to say it in an important dignitary and diplomatic way the middle classes tried to infiltrate poor areas without culture so it's all made fun of....you are a bitch

Theres really no culture to center activity around so it's all made fun of...no no....you are a bitch

[lewyn-martell]

i agree with you so hard re: kierans interviews like, god i love his performance but theres always something i disagree with and i feel like most of the succession actors have interpretations that i feel are off?. also in his recent interview he gives his own interpretation of the dog cage scene and i read it shaking my head like no...

Yeah, I think the actors I disagree with the least are usually Jeremy Strong and J. Smith-Cameron (also, I haven't seen that many Alan Ruck, Sarah Snook and Matthew Macfadyen ones, but I don't remember any major complaints about their views either and I like how they can step back and be fair), but even they sometimes say some weird things, especially Jeremy (I literally only have one thing where I was like "hmm but is it though?" that JSC said).

But yeah Brian Cox is too into his character's headspace, and Kieran Culkin sometimes says things that are just.. WILD... like, Huh! Nice speculation you got going over there, but let's capitalize that S because I don't think you're aware of that word dripping from your "facts", namely "Gerri tied my shoes when I was a little boy", "Roman is a closet lib, he's definitely not in agreement with the facist's politics and is only considering what he can do for the company" or "Roman completely re-wrote the memory about the dog cage incident and he was never bullied by Kendall" (which I actually think it's something to consider that has merit, but it's so incomplete. Like, he even says "I think something made him feel like a victim" BABY GIRL YOU'RE SO CLOSE!!)

In any case, it's completely normal that we're not gonna be one mind in everything the actos say; they have to go to some lines of thinking of what makes sense to the characters on a human level and are way too tied to their viewpoint and motivations, ignoring themes, narrative or even other characters. That's why I usually steer clear of them and am far more interest in what the writers, directors etc. have to say about a show or movie.

[spiribia]

pspspsps if it's ok with you can you talk about nanami maybe. I like hearing you talk also i think about nanami a lot and i vaguely remember you saying one time nanamis egg is what made you believe she was a lesbian and i cannot stop thinking about what the hell you meant

*moves toward you like an inquisitive cat* i’d love to. i dont remember what ive already said on here / what you mightve already heard me say so this might be a little repetitive, but essentially its that nanamis egg touches on feelings of nanami’s that she somehow isnt performing girlhood correctly, the assumption that other girls around her are doing it correctly and that they innately understand it and are able to be it in a way she doesnt, that shes some of kind of “space alien” for not belonging in this, and that if society around her knew her as the anomaly she is they would ostracize her. of course these arent feelings that are exclusive to the gay experience, and it could encompass other things, but what makes that more of a viable specific possibility in my mind (it wasnt my original headcanon, but this is the episode where i went “ohh, i can see why people would think that now”) is the bit of the episode where, because of a misunderstanding, touga thinks nanami has just told him she likes girls. he launches into this whole speech on how that goes against the natural order and gods plan & he reinforces the heteronormative structure. nanami denies thats what she meant and then asks him “What would you think of a girl who lays eggs?”, and he says, “Nanami... Do you know why we’ve been able to live together so happily? It’s because you aren’t the type of girl that lays eggs.”

theres this overarching theme in rgu that biological family is this source of unconditional love regardless of one’s own personal merit - you dont have to work to deserve it: it’s encoded there immutably, maybe genetically (at least what the characters believe). for these teenagers that feel like they have to prove themselves through performance because they feel they couldn’t earn it otherwise as just who they are (low self esteem), this is a big deal -- if, because youre you, you can never earn anyone elses love, at least youll always, for sure, have this source of connection. but this comment shakes nanami up badly because this is an indication from touga that it’s possible for him to simply STOP loving her for something she inherently is that she can’t even control, that it’s possible his love could be conditional. you could associate that with the immediate previous misunderstanding they had, that he momentarily thought nanami was saying she was gay. 

the idea that you lay eggs and other girls don’t, or that other girls do and do it better than you, is that there’s this fixed quality of you that is not enough of what the other girls just are. that because of that you’ll always have to be consciously performing and conforming to mask a lack of something they all just have. & that the way they are is the only acceptable way to be, according to this society at least. in any sense it’s this notion of conformity, standards of gender, etc. in general, maybe.

just as a bonus, im not sure yet if i subscribe to the headcanon that nanami had a crush on utena, but to me itd just be super funny. this is also from this episode:

[antiloreolympus]

5 Anti LO Asks

1. i dont even think lo persephone is particularly a bad character, i think the issue is rachel has no idea what to do with her. she wants her to be native and innocent but also deadly and confident, but that'd require persephone to have some flaws/complexities, so she just makes up vague "feelings" and the underworld making her smell bad. rachel herself cant commit to actually letting persephone be a real character with weaknesses and flaws.  which just ends up making persephone boring and flat. 

(same anon abt persephone's lack of flaws) the issue too is that because rachel made persephone the most powerful goddess and has hades as the most powerful king with all the resources, all sense of stakes and tension is just not there. they dont even have actual antagonists because apollo, demeter, and leto are jokes, minthe had no power, and everyone falls over backwards to defend hxp, and we already know the ending. the plot and conflict are as shallow as the characters themselves.

2. its honestly kinda ??? that there is art of lo demeter and persephone and how loving of a relationship they are (were?) and yet thats not in the actual comic? like demeter's love for persephone is framed as abusive and cruel and the actual reason for persephone's problems yet everything demeter said would happen did?? and those werent her fault? like its one thing if demeter had all these fears but were proven wrong, but she's time and time again proven right? and is still framed badly for it???

3. i think part of the reason the art of lo doesnt hold up is bc the world is very flat. like the characters are already boring enough in their colors being the only actual character design, but the world around them is very lacking. theres no distinct buildings, no distinct flowers or trees, and the backgrounds all just flat voids of a single color with some sketchup lines slapped on top. now, other webtoons do this too, but its so the panel doesnt become overwhelmed, LO does it to be lazy.

4. the webtoons app updated to where now the main page banners change every time you open the app to let more series get ad space so OF COURS LO has a banner on it and?? its confusing?? like it has persephone being ~sexy in a bathtub~ and the tagline is "no service in the underworld" and its like what does that even mean?? also the ads love to pretend shes this confident, sexual woman when shes literally everything but in the actual comic. its kinda shocking how often the LO ads just lie like that.

5. Comparing LO to some other WEBTOON I would say that LO is too ambitious for its writer. For “Forever After” you normally just have the current issue and the overall issue with the story, so just because we go through characters in that story their characters complete their arcs. True Beauty is drawn out BUT arcs are still tied up abs even tho it’s not as interesting as it was it still holds my attention positively. “The first night with the duke” kinda got past the point I care about but still again has me drawn in. Suitor of Armor’s story is expanding greatly but I feel the writer already has plans for that

BUT LO is another story. The cast seems bloated for the plots going on and I’m losing track. Like Eros got to explain his little story, and then we forgot about it for a bit with Hades and Aphrodite talking about it for a split second and then way later Eros says “I’m gonna find Pyche” but is he looking? No he just asks his mom for more hints we don’t see him try to do anything clever. He doesn’t even find her on his own merit. And after two years we don’t even get a full conclusion how that went. They shot arrows at Apollo and then what? They were high up in the air, was Eros able to break their fall (probably) What about the whole falling for Ampleutus stuff? We probably won’t see anything for another couple months regrading those two.

ARTEMIS! She’s Persphone’s roommate, we know she’s lying about never having a crush but who is it? RS stated Artemis is gay. Does it matter? Does it influence the plot at all? Is it gonna be a big reveal that Zeus is her father? Why does she hate the three kings so much? Does Zeus know he’s her father? Or was Apollo abs Artemis “created” like Persphone and Hera? (Probably not but still)

HESTIA and ATHENA! When did they start TGOEM? Why did they? Hestia isn’t Athena’s aunt right? Was Athena “created” by Zeus? How does Hera feel about that? What was Hestia like before the war and now? Is Hestia close with the other six traitors?

Hera and her kids! We know Hera has more than Hephaestus Ares and Hebe but like what’s the story man? Hera is closer to all three of these children (Zeus seems to discourage Hephaestus presence, Ares defends his mom, and Hebes mad at Zeus for banishing Ares from the house) but these weren’t snap things that happened, it seems like the kids bond to their mother way more than their father just in general before the story, but why? I feel like Hera’s stuff is used as filler but I’m still more interested rather than HXP all the time. Whose the sister? Why is Hera closer to P rather than her own kids it seems. And echo!? Why did Zeus hire her and what’s the agreement?

That ghost that keeps showing up?

Whatever the Kronos revival plot is?

What happened to rhea?

So the Trojan war already happened?

What’s the deal with Demigods?

Nymphs can have parents but sometimes don’t? (Daphne was crested by Demeter, but Thetis has a mom?)

Is Megara and P now just friends? Or did we miss her character where she either gets over hades or plots revenge?

I just feel like with everything LO isn’t planned this far out and it’s just worrying for what she’s in the mood for not tying plots together and getting much figured out. Like the plot just Keep not moving forward because there’s just too much to cover. 

[aretarers]

🔥bwehhhh star trek.... get MEAN abt it too <3 (mostly joking)

garak is one of myfavorite characters hes hilarious by concept and also just really well written (AND ACTED everyone sayTHANK YOU andy robinson). and he IS funny and he IS gay. and i think its HILARIOUS. but i haaate hate hate whenthats all people talk about you know. omg gay space lizard<3 I KNOW. I KNOW HE IS. but it gets annoying to hear that over and over again. Also theres more to him than just his relationship with julian which once again i DO see it i DO think it is real. and once again it is hilarious. like what other show has some freaky exspy tailor hit on a main character super hard in the cold open of episode #3 of the series. its hilarious. but again when its all people talk about its ANNOYING!!! Why dont you guys ever think about that time garak got super high on space violence mushrooms and almost killed nog and then later on they crash landed on a planet and went on a field trip together and it was really awkward due to aforementioned almost killing nog.

All this being said though. while were talking about unpopular opinions i want to say that 1. i dont ACTUALLY care very much about what people do. if theyre having fun then theyre having fun and if theyre not being total freaks about it then you know what go have fun man. 2. i obviously dont know what goes on in peoples heads and what people post about is not automatically the only thing going on in their heads. i say this because i think actually my more unpopular opinion is that while all those tumblr posts (including this one) about "people in media only for shipping are missing out on other things etc etc" DO have merit and generally i agree with them (see: this post) i actually see THOSE kinds of posts MORE OFTEN than the people those posts are complaining about. and honestly at that point it just kind of gets annoying LOL and again also i think people need to consider that again "things people post" != "everything theyre thinking about". again not saying those posts are wrong or bad or etc like i do agree that people who are (or at least appear to be) only interested in media for shipping are missing out and could stand to broaden their horizons but at the end of the day if theyre 1. not into freak shit 2. having fun like i really DONT care. like. Life sucks man and if thats bringing you some joy and youre not being super gross about it then like. Live a little you know?

anyway im consistently in a state of both "Wow these people are annoying" but also "if theyre having fun then you know what good for them i don't actually care at the end of the day"

[phoenixfeathersinfall]

The Dax Debacle: Re-Imagining S7 of “Star Trek Deep Space Nine”

*This post came about after a few discussions with Lee @creativilee on how the stories of Jadzia and Ezri could have been adapted to better serve both of those characters and respect the work of both actresses! Thanks to them for all their help, encouragement, and serving as a springboard! Anything in italics is theirs!

For all of us DS9 fans, the finale season can be rather fraught for several reasons, many of the biggest revolving around the transition from Jadzia Dax to Ezri Dax, henceforth called “The Dax Debacle.” Many folks seem to love one and hate the other, which is a huge shame because both characters brought amazing potential and storylines to the table, but the writers really fumbled in some key aspects. This sure-to-be-long-winded meta is an attempt between myself and Lee to fix some of those fumbles and give both characters the storylines they deserved. So, let’s get to it!

First, a little behind-the scenes context.

Why Two Dax-es?

To begin with, it’s important to acknowledge that the Dax Debacle was largely unplanned, and the writing often reflects the ways in which Nicole de Boer was shoehorned in as Terry Ferrell’s replacement, just as the character of Ezri was deliberately put forward as Jadzia’s replacement as the next host of Dax. What happened?

It is widely believed, based on various interviews Terry gave during the show’s run, that the set of DS9 was inhospitable to her, placing her in situations of harassment and abuse. By the time of S7, due to this as well as the sheer grueling schedule of the show, she wanted to be moved from a permanent member of the cast into a reoccurring role like that of Andrew Robinson. When it proved fruitless to negotiate this, Terry decided to leave the show, though she explicitly stated she had not wanted Jadzia’s character to be killed on her departure.

Though the writers went through with the decision to kill Jadzia, they still wanted the character of Dax to remain on the crew, and due to the way Trill physiology was designed, they decided to do this with another host, similar to how Jadzia was initially seen as the continuation of Sisko’s old friend Curzon.

Enter Nicole de Boer as Ezri Dax, a young unjoined Trill who had never intended to be a host at all, and the story of her adjustment to carrying on the Dax legacy.

The Story’s Seed

It’s definitely worth noting that the initial conception of Ezri’s story, the young suddenly-joined Trill joined under trying circumstances who has to re-discover herself has a lot of potential! It could have been extremely poignant and moving, in something of the same vein as Seven of Nine rediscovering herself on “Voyager.” Unfortunately, the choices made regarding how she became the next Dax make it hard to appreciate Ezri on her own merits. Both we as the audience and the other characters are constantly seeing Jadzia in her place. It stymied who she was able to be as a character and how the audience was able to receive her. The way she was written invites constant comparisons, often to Ezri’s detriment in her initial interactions with the crew.

Lee said some things extremely well here: “Ezri as a character was hindered a lot by being made ‘Jadzia's replacement’ instead of ‘the next Dax,’ a Dax in her own right. While Jadzia definitely had Curzon's legacy to live with, it was absolutely not all she was, and she interacted with it as such, but Ezri wasn’t written with the same care. She isn't ‘Ezri Dax’ she's ‘Ezri, the one who replaced Jadzia.’ She was entirely written as a replacement, and it shows.”

Fumbles, Fumbles, Fumbles

Let’s review some things that went sideways in Ezri’s arc, so we can see it for the purposes of our rewrite.

The “I'm the new host of your dead friends symbiont" aspect is very difficult to watch. It’s hard to say if the writers wanted to lean into this aspect deliberately, but even if they did, I don’t think they ended up hitting the emotional notes they wanted to.

Ezri doesn’t seem to get much training from what we can tell, and being joined is a huge change! We learned from Jadzia’s arc that initiates often train for years. It’s wartime, but she still really did get thrown into the deep end!

The audience can’t approach Ezri on her own merits, but quite often, the crew isn’t doing that, either. There’s the caveat that they’re grieving and it’s an odd situation to be in, but! Sisko initially tries to interact with her in the same way he would Jadzia (calling her old man, which upsets her a great deal,) Julian flirts with her with the same intensity he did Jadzia in early seasons, Worf seems to only be seeing his dead wife any time he looks at her.

Ezri is given a role as ship’s counselor when she is in no way emotionally able to handle the psychological difficulties of others when she’s going through so much herself.

Her return to Deep Space 9 (the station) seems to contradict what we know about Trill culture. Joining is meant to give the symbiont as many life experiences as possible, and re-association (to various degrees) is anything from strongly discouraged to forbidden. Ezri goes right back to living Jadzia’s life in some ways, in the same place with the same people. Jadzia wasn’t able to resume her relationship with Lenara Khan, but Ezri finds herself being intimate with Jadzia’s widower.

Our alternatives and fixes for the arcs of Jadzia and Ezri fall into three broad categories, which we’ll break down here:

1. Ezri Not-Dax? (Ezri is still joined unexpectedly, but rather than the Dax symbiont, she is host to another symbiont which needed her.)

2. Where in the World is Jadzia Dax? (If Ezri isn’t a Dax, we have to figure out what to do with the Dax we know!)

3. The Legacy Question (The age-old Trill questions of new hosts, old hosts, and interpersonal relationships.)

Ezri Who? Ezri Not-Dax!

The best solution Lee and I were able to find was the idea that Ezri was joined under similar circumstances to canon, but not to Dax itself.

This is still largely workable for the story we want to tell, because, as Lee explains: “The Dax symbiont isn't key to her character, except to affect her relationships with the crew. Her main personal conflicts are about being joined before she was ready, not about being joined to Dax. She still would have worked without the Dax symbiont.”

For the sake of convenience, let’s call this hypothetical new symbiont Nal. So, Ezri Tigan —> Ezri Nal.

Where in the World is Jadzia Dax?

Theres 3 different paths we could take with Jadzia!

If Terry was made a reoccurring member of the cast, the writers could easily have put Jadzia into the position of being given a transfer assignment. Though Jadzia might initially struggle to accept this because of her loyalty to her friends, “with things picking up in wartime, it's believable that Starfleet would want the people more familiar with what dangers are on the other side of the wormhole to be spread around and maximize the number of ships and stations that are prepared for it. Maybe Jadzia acts as a representative and goes around giving lectures/debriefings on that stuff. This situation puts us in a position to get frequent updates about Jadzia, even if we don't see her again!"

If Terry did not stay on at all, Jadzia as a character could still have died, but the Dax symbiont finds a new host back on Trill, away from the station. Maybe we get updates about this Dax because Ezri trained with them for a bit, or the new Dax reaches out to Sisko from time to time, since he was well-acquainted with two previous Dax-es.

The option I like best for purely self-indulgent reasons would be if Terry stayed on for one more season and was present on the station when Ezri arrived, serving as a mentor to her.

The Legacy Question

Since the “TNG” days, Star Trek likes to experiment with Trill, and what happens in relationships between joined Trill and non-Trill, particularly in the case of a symbiont with a new host. We might assume this was part of the writer’s intent with the Dax Debacle, but it went over much better in the move from Curzon to Jadzia then it did in the move from Jadzia to Ezri.

Other options for exploring “the legacy question:”

“If they wanted to explore the whole ‘new host when the previous host was close to you’ thing, they could have had an episode that went into detail about Sisko meeting Jadzia for the first time after the death of Curzon.” Or, just having Sisko reflect more on the changes and developments in their relationship as time passes. They did this quite well initially when Jadzia first came aboard, but dropped it soon after the first season for the most part and left it to our amazing fic writers to pick it back up.

The character of Curzon is often used as a vehicle for explaining Jadzia’s connection to Klingon culture, but he also gives us access to a wealth of relationships which could be used to explore the legacy question. “Curzon had so many friends, and we see a variety of reactions from them, particularly with his Klingon friends. Some of them immediately fall back into that friendship, some of them struggle to recognize that Jadzia may not be Curzon, but she is still Dax, and has a lot of Curzon in her.” Keeping that thread going would have been intriguing also.

The Life of Ezri Nal

Here’s how some elements of Ezri’s story might look with the “Nal” symbiont.

Ezri is joined rather unprepared when a medical emergency puts the life of a symbiont at risk and the host is unable to be saved. For convenience, let’s call this symbiont Nal.

Ezri was always interested in Starfleet Service, especially in working as a counselor (which she studied on her own rather than gaining the knowledge through the memories of past hosts.) She assigned to the station by the Trill Symbiosis Commission largely because there are people there who will know how to help a newly-joined Trill; namely Sisko, Julian, and Jadzia.

Jadzia+ Ezri

Being the only other Trill on the station that we know about, Jadzia puts herself in a mentor role to Ezri, helping her adjust to her new life and consciousness. Her personality and experiences make her perfect for the job!

As a bonus, we get to see how the mentor and mentee relarionships between joined Trill and initiates work.

We also set up some fun parallels! Take Jadzia, who had to try so hard to be joined, and it was a huge goal in her life (to the point where she applied again to the Symbiosis Comission after being rejected once, which is played as something that basically never happens,) versus Ezri who was perfectly happy to be just herself and ended up taking on this responsibility without being ready and without feeling like she had much choice because of how Trill culture regards symbionts.

From the little we know about Jadzia before she was joined, she was somewhat like Ezri-bookish, shy, anxious-and she initially struggled to adjust to the likes of Curzon. But now, she’s gown so confident in who she is, for the most part, and she’d be the perfect person to guide Ezri and help her find joy in her new life.

But, she also understands having difficulties with aspects of being joined, for example, her conflict in whether she should rejoin with Lenara Khan, or how she struggled in the aftermath of the discovery of the cover-up regarding Joran.

In short, Jadzia helps keep Ezri as mentally and emotionally healthy as she can be.

Julian+Ezri

Being CMO, Julian helps look after Ezri and ensure she’s physically well; after all, it’s what he does best! “Having Julian as the Chief Medical Officer on board would be a big draw for the Trill. He's even performed a symbiont joining and removal procedure. He had to be very familiar with Trill biology, meaning a newly joined host would be relatively safe and well-cared-for on board. And, I’m sure that there's a big chemical change in Trill when the get joined, and adjusting to that would be hard!”

Julian can also sympathize having something done you didn’t want or weren’t ready for, and can help her process those feelings. “ They both have complicated relationships with their parents regarding their parents’ expectations and their own desires and feelings, which would be interesting!”

In some ways, Julian can serve as another mentor to Ezri. It would be an interesting shift to watch Julian, who is often portrayed as the the youngest or most “green” be able to mentor and guide someone else. “This is also a good way to show Julian has grown and matured, without having to have other characters just say it.”

If we still followed their romance route, having Ezri as Ezri Nal rather than Dax could have make the relationship between her and Julian sit a lot better with audiences. With a rewrite, Julian is not chasing the “ghost” of Jadzia; rather he’s meeting Ezri for the person she is, on her own terms. This also prevents a regression of his character back to the way he chased Jadzia in the early seasons, and instead honors the relationship of treasured friendship that Julian and Jadzia built.

Sisko+Ezri

As he is with many of his younger crew, Sisko takes naturally to the role of a mentor and father figure with Ezri, again meeting her for the person she is, on her own terms. He serves as a valuable guide to ship life and helps her get acquainted with station staff and residents.

Like with Jake, Sisko encourages Ezri to find herself by being her own person.

Ezri tries to take up cooking as a hobby with Sisko, but the experiences of past hosts mean her skills vary wildly depending on what they are making.

Other Relationships

Garak helps Ezri figure out how she wants to dress, often integrating different styles from past hosts. (He rather jumps at the chance.) Ezri still has her difficulties helping him as a counselor, but her additional training and the lack of complications from the Dax symbiont make things easier. They also get to know each other through Julian.

In this Ideal Timeline, Ziyal survives and meets Ezri. They relate well to each other, both of them not really knowing where they fit and grappling with someone else’s legacy, but they have each other for support. Ziyal has given her portraits as gifts.

She has a similar dynamic with Jake, who is trying to figure out how to honor his parents while being his own man. Ezri starts writing memoirs of sorts about her past lives on his suggestion.

Surprisingly, she gets on with Nog, too. They’re both doing things unexpected and feeling like they’re going to be the first in something big.

She isn’t especially close to Worf, but he assures her that the sacrifices she made for Nal are ones to be honored, and becomes rather fond of Ezri due to Jadzia’s influence.

Thanks for reading this super-long meta! Please tell Lee and I your thoughts on this rewrite!

[doomednarrative]

God i have so many complicated feelings when it comes to Murdoc honestly.

Because here's the thing: He is objectively my favorite member of Gorillaz along with 2D. But I have specific reasons for it.

For 1. He's just fun to draw. His design is fun and its fun to draw weird experimental shit with him.

For 2 tho, it goes a bit deeper than that.

Murdoc is a complex character. Hes a fuckin asshole and I'm in no way erasing any of that. But he is complex and all the shit hes been thru has shaped him into who he is. Its clear half of the shit he does is genuinely just because hes a dick, and the other half could arguably be attributed to other various traumas and things hes suffered from, and some of his actions are 100% his way of trying to cope with all of that, abiet it being unhealthy as shit and just not at all the way you should deal with your problems.

It should be obvious to people if you've followed me for any length of time, but theres a whole list of assholes and villain characters that I like and find interesting. And I'm not of the camp to try and woobify them or erase the bad shit theyve done. I enjoy them because theyre interesting and fucked up and because its fictional, and that in no way reflects who I actually am as a person, because if said characters were real I'd find them despicable. But in fiction its fun to rip them apart and analyse them and theres merit in doing that for the sake of fun sometimes.

With Murdoc specifically tho its a bit of a different case.

When I originally got into Gorillaz, it was after The Fall had been released, but before Humanz wad announced and the fandom itself was a bit dead at that point. Plastic Beach was the last major story arc, and as someone who was living in an abusive house at the time and just starting to come to terms with how much I actually suffered in that house, the story of it all hit me hard. I connected with both Murdoc and 2D at the time and tbh I used the story of Gorillaz as a way to cope with some of the shit I was going thru.

And i really did connect with Murdoc a bit. I was an angry teen who was being abused and having a horrible time and I wanted to lash out and run away, but I was also immensely sad and felt lonely and didnt have any real healthy ways to cope with my shit, so I felt destructive. (More towards myself, but still.)

Murdoc was someone I related to a lot because he had been thru similar, and I used him and his shit as a way to navigate my own feelings.

But at the same time, he also became the prime example of what I did Not want to happen to me as a person who had suffered trauma. I didnt want to cope the way he does, I didn't want to hurt the people around me just because I'd been hurt. I wanted to be the opposite. I wanted to be Better than that.

And I still do. I'm still like that.

Murdoc is a character I enjoy immensely because I find him interesting and layered, but hes also the perfect example to me of the very kind of person I Never want to be, and somehow that just makes him more interesting too.

[calangkoh]

and im done. up next conqueror of shamballa!

okay honest opinions about this ending. i like that its imperfect. but i still wish it were happier. i get the feeling if they didnt have cos they would have ended this differently, because this ending seems to specifically set up the movie. but the movie is another work, even if its the real ending, and im here to talk about the series. so on its own, disregarding the movie, i think this ending is. ok. i dont think its BAD, but a deeply unsatisfying one that works for its themes and tone. its imperfect and bittersweet. i like that. id keep that. it implies theyll find a way back to each other one day, even if we have no idea how. but id still change it if i could because even if an unsatisfying ending is poetic (because Tragedies exist, where unhappy endings are poignant and meaningful) in relation to the series’ core themes, its still unsatisfying. the ending of cos is satisfying enough, because the brothers are together, but still rather sad.

but heres the thing. mangahood exists. metatextually, this ending is great (and that way i wouldnt say is a definitive way to judge a series, just a way to enhance what already exists within the worlds own universe). because theres a certain level of poetic justice and karma to have an AU that has a tragic ending with characters who suffered so much and didn’t get what they deserved in the end, and then the other work that was released after give you the same characters and give them everything the deserved. 

contrary to how much i try to judge the two series based on their own merits and not in comparison to one another, both fma 03 and fmab feel like two incomplete works that need each other to exist. an example i can think of to explain what i mean is how the two legend of zelda games, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks, are two similar games that seem to both be a half of a whole game, as youtuber King K describes. he says he cant judge them individually because it does them a disservice, as they both feel like incomplete works without the other. this applies even more appropriately to the fma series, because they are both adaptations of the same story and same world and characters. they both do something differently and they do that thing very well on their own. but to fully appreciate either, you need to watch both. because one will deliver something the other didnt. im sure there are people who will disagree with me, because a lot of people have said 03 isnt worth watching and fmab is definitive and all you need. i strongly disagree, of course. but my point is that the ending of 03 is infinitely better when you consider that the writers (which included arakawa’s own input) intended a totally different ending than the one arakawa had told them of in her manga, to specifically make their own story that felt different from fmab when they ultimately go on to make it. they did it on purpose with the manga and brotherhood’s ending in mind. so that people will be hungry for more and be satisfied and surprised by mangahood’s ending. so that brotherhood feels like a do over, a second life where everything works out better, where the universe is kinder and more ordered, for the characters we fell in love with in 03. 

anyway, the ending of 03 is not my ideal. but it works in its story, and i appreciate a special kind of beauty in it. and the ending of 03 could definitely be more structured. i wont deny the common criticisms that 03′s ending feels jumbled. even if it makes sense and has a powerful message after you take the time unjumbling it, it doesnt mean its not jumbled. and i really only feel its in the last couple episodes. i think everything the series set out to do was done great, and they just were so ambitious that the ending was TOO ambitious for them to tell cohesively. and thats okay, ultimately. the series is still good. its still amazing! if most people say “that series was so good, i just didnt like the ending (and likely prefer fmab as a result)” which from what ive seen and heard, is the most common opinion. and if the ending really is the only major complaint, i dont think that makes the whole work bad. tons of works have bad endings, and sometimes they break the series (like game of thrones, from what ive heard). but a “bad ending” doesnt define the whole series imo unless it truly retroactively destroys all it built up and stood for (like how i met your mother, in some sense to me). but 03 doest do that. its ending still adheres to its core themes and goals from the start. therefore, just because the ending isnt a crowd pleaser, even just because its a tad confusing, doesnt mean its bad.

that all being said. fma 03 is fantastic. i love this show. i think its one of the best and deserves to be praised as much as brotherhood. i give this show a 9.5/10 (-.5 points for the jumbled ending and some strange fillers cough episode 4 cough and other weird episodes) and my ratings dont really have any real rhyme or reason, so that doesnt REALLY mean anything other than “this show is good”

so yeah. this has been fun. thank you all who interacted with my liveblog! ill liveblog cos but idk if ill have a lot to say about it. and then ill liveblog brotherhood (in small doses, since i dont wanna take away from this being an 03 appreciation blog)!

[pansunset]

okay time for a theatre hot take about historical musicals. im gonna split this into two posts, one about hamilton and one about six. because while the easiest way to put it is “hamilton bad six good”, there’s a bit more nuance to my opinion on them both than that.

First off, all the cast members are insanely talented, especially Leslie Odom Jr, Daveed Diggs, Christopher Jackson, Phillipa Soo, and Reneé Elise Goldberry. Even though the people they played were varying degrees of assholes, they managed to make them feel compelling. Credit where its due.

anyway, lmm is a good songwriter, the issues with hamilton come from the glorification of the historical figures portrayed. if hamilton was more critical of these individuals, it might not have been such a... yeah.

the hardest hitting songs are the songs that delve into the personal lives of the individuals rather than politics. Satisfied, Wait for It, Helpless, Burn, Dear Theodosia, It’s Quiet Uptown... these are all incredibly emotional and raw. Aaron Burr was a fascinating individual and all of his songs reflect this, honestly. IRL, Burr was actually one of the least scummy of the cast, though because he wasn’t very fond of Hamilton, he is villanized. unsexy. Leslie Odom Jr. has such a powerful voice and does an incredible job as Burr.

some of the songs about the war are also decent works. Stay Alive talks about the actual conditions the American militia put themselves through, and The World Turned Upside Down, while it’s a very patriotic (ew) pov, is still a well written victory anthem. the most interesting one is History Has It’s Eyes on You, and having Washington sing it was a great choice. it’s one of the few songs where a founding father is looked at critically for their failings, and said founding father point blank says that those who come next will judge whatever you do. Christopher Jackson is an amazing vocalist and he actually has talked about his struggle to play Washington despite Washington being a dick.

the songs about politics tend to fall flat because they oversimplify the actual views of the main character and paint everyone around him as either a villain or ally based on whether they liked Hamilton. the cabinet battles especially are pretty cringe. there are a couple exceptions that I’ll discuss in a moment, but first, a character analysis tangent.

Thomas Jefferson is... an interesting case. Irl, the man was a disaster of a person. He came down with migraines from talking to women, was generally considered a weirdo, and was the original “rich person who buys expensive versions of the ugliest clothes and acts like he’s presentable”. Yet aside from one line in It Must Be Nice, he’s portrayed as a extravagant, dramatic, yet mildly charming asshole. His costume is bright purple, he carries a fancy cane. Like, ignoring the fact that its inappropriate to ever make Thomas Jefferson seem charming, this isn’t even accurate to who he was as a person. He was less sociable than Isaac Newton for fucks sake. The only accurate thing is being a france weeb and being a worse debater than Hamilton.

Anyway, speaking of It Must Be Nice, its one of the few good political songs. It’s critical of Hamilton and it explains why the Madison and Jefferson hate his guts (though for stupid reasons). Furthermore, it also explains the political climate of the day better than other political songs in the musical. The other two good ones are, of course, The Room Where it Happens and Your Obedient Servant.

The Room Where It Happens is not only an amazing breaking point for Burr to stop waiting around, it’s the one time in the musical where the real Alexander Hamilton is best represented. (Hamilton in yellow, Burr in blue)

“Or did you know even then it doesn't matter where you put the U.S. capital?

Cause we'll have the banks, we're in the same spot

You got more than you gave

And I wanted what I got

When you got skin in the game, you stay in the game

But you don't get a win unless you play in the game

Oh, you get love for it, you get hate for it

But you get nothing if you wait for it

God help and forgive me

I wanna build something that's gonna outlive me.”

This is the real Hamilton. The facade of caring about ideals is gone, and the truth is bared; Alexander Hamilton was a smooth talker who only did things when he saw it could benefit him in some way. The man was obsessed with his legacy, and anything that got in the way of him building one was just collateral. Yes he was crass and loud, but guess what? That usually meant he was heard over everyone else. Burr only just realized that the whole “scrappy underdog” act was just that; an act

Your Obedient Servant is Burr calling out Hamilton for going back on everything he claimed to believe just to keep Burr from the nomination. Fun fact: the 1800 election was not a landslide victory. It was incredibly close. Hamilton’s endorsement was probably what kept it from being a tie.

Hamilton tries to defend himself by projecting his flaws onto Burr. “I am not the reason no one trusts you, no one knows what you believe” isn’t an accurate depiction of Burr in the slightest. Burr actually quite enjoyed politics and debates, and none of his setbacks ever kept him down for long. He cared very little for what his contemporaries thought of him though: He relied on the merits of his points. A lot of his correspondence was left to his daughter, Theodosia, and was lost on the shipwreck that killed her, so theres a lot we don’t know about him. But the musical depiction of him is not really accurate.

The problem with Hamilton isnt that it’s a musical about the founding fathers. Its that it grossly misrepresents those founding fathers. It never considers the thoughts of the slaves of any of the main characters. It never considers the Native American perspective on the Revolutionary War. It mocks John Adams, despite him being one of the few founding fathers who not only didn’t own slaves, but publicly berated his contemporaries for relying on slavery. It does a great deal of injustice to Burr. It woobifies the Schylers. For fucks sake, it forgot Benedict Arnold. Ya know, one of the most famous spies? Who almost cost America the War?

Its impact on modern political discussion and internet culture is also kind of a net negative, save for the production “The Haunting of LMM”. Its status as a fucking joke these days is earned. Though it has some good songs, and the fact that it got an official recording means good things for the future of Broadway accessibility, it’s a hot mess and is an example of how not to do a historical musical.

[argumentl]

The Freedom of Expression Ep 8 - About Sawajiri Erika's early comeback. (*Treatment of drug addicts*)

K: Hi, This is Dir en grey's Kaoru. Joe san, Tasai san, once again.

J, T: Please. Thank you very much.

Kami: Me too.

J: Oh, kami too, right?

K: Unlike on the radio show, he's always around now, isnt he? There were times when he wasn't around before.

J: I think he descended to us about once a month on the radio show.

T: *laughs*

K: In that show, he just flitted in sometimes, and that was it.

J: Yes, yes, yes.

K: Now he's everywhere.

J: He's a regular commentator now.

K: *laughs*

T: This time we have some news from Tokyo Sports.

J: Ah! From the celebrity world

T: Lets start.... Do you know the Japanese comedy duo 'Nihon Elekitel Rengo', famous for the 'Dameyo, damedame' sketch?

J: I didn't, but I learned about them from Tokyo Sports.

T: What about you, Kaoru?

K: I know them.

T: They are a female duo, but one of them, Nakano san, got married to an older man working at the same agency, but it was a marriage with zero prior social interaction.

J: What does that mean? They got married on the same day they met?

T: Well, she was approched by the man, Matsuo Atom san, but she continuously turned him down. Then she suddenly decided last year to marry him. So, its kinda being debated online whether it is or it isn't *1. I really want to ask them.

J: Ahh, surely it is.

K: You can't say it isn't.

J: You can't.. But if you think its isn't...what isn't?!

T: People who think that it isn't, say that because they've never dated, they don't know each other well, and they might divorce quickly.

K: Oh, thats about afterwards.

T: Some concern was raised about that.

J: But I dated my wife for twenty years before marriage, and ended up getting divorced after two years. So just because you've been together for a while, it doesn't mean you won't get divorced.

T: Ahh, I see.

J: This type of thing can't be helped.

K: But thats normal, dating for a long time, getting married, and then ending up separating. It happens to a lot of people, right?

J: Yes.

T: But this Nakano san says, they've never held hands, they don't know each other's address, they don't live together..

J: But they got married?

T: Yes

K: The possibility of them separating seems high, but...

J: Right?

T: Yeah

K:..but, they can do what they want.

J: Yes, i think so. It sounds weird, but this also works as publicity.

T: Yeah

J: Almost like a risky stunt. Personally, I think its possible. But if one of them had the idea, and the other agreed to it, isnt it something to be thankful for?

T: Yeah, but apparently thier boss was really worried about it, he said they should have told him first. He booked a hotel suit room and shoved the two of them in there, but apparently nothing ended up happening.

J: Nothing happened?! People hearing this will want to know if they love each other.

Kami: I want to meet thier boss.

J: Oh, that? *laughs* A suite room is expensive right?

Kami: Yeh, I want to stay in a suite room.

*everyone laughs*

K: What would you do if you did stay in one?

Kami: If I did? Hmm, use the internet.

*laughing*

J: You can do that anyway! What about something more extravagant?

K: Like ordering room service or something.

Kami: I would order room service.

K: What would you order?

J: What would you eat, Kami?

Kami: Ramen

*laughing*

J: I don't think there are many people who would order ramen in a suite room.

K: It might actually be good though. Eating that kind of common food in that kind of place.

J: Eating something...

K: and just looking at the internet.

J: Just looking at the internet *laughs*

K: Its luxurious, right?

J: Exactly. Isn't it wasting the suite though?

T: Okay, lets look at another story. Its this story, it caused quite a stir. Sawajiri Erika...she was found to be in possession of drugs and had her first court appearance at the end of January. The entertainment world is in uproar concerning her early comeback, should she, shouldn't she?

Kami: She should.

J: I think so too.

T: Why? I'll ask you first, Joe.

J: Well, this is her first crime, so she probably won't get a prison sentence. I think it will be a suspended sentence. So, the idea behind a suspended sentence is to give you preparation time to get back to your normal life. Its important get back to your original life as much as possible.

T: I see

J: So, with a suspended sentence she will lose all of her tv sponsers and stuff, but its important for her to gain a platform back, for example, online or such. Now, if we talk about the situation in America, drug addicts are seen as ill people, not criminals, so they embark on a process of revovery, in order to quickly return to regular life. There's a feeling of, 'you're ill, so lets get you better'. Its felt that the worst thing to do, is to be alone with it. Leaving people in these situations is seen as bad. Getting people re-immersed in the community, and returned to normality as much as possible through social interaction, is how America deals with this. As to why America does this, its mainly cost, it costs money to treat people. They want to get people back out into the world quickly. Unlike the idea of severe punishments in Japan, America generally thinks in that way. My own view is very similar to that... We'll have to wait for the verdict. If she gets prison, theres nothing to be done, but if she gets a suspended sentence, she should try to return to her normal life as much as possible. On the other hand, once you've used drugs, you must be able to continue in a clean state, so you must also have the support around you to be able to stay clean.

T: I see, I see.

J: I think thats important.

T: Kami, what are your thoughts?

Kami: The same as Joe. There were no victims.

J: Yes, thats right. No one else was hurt by this.

T: An opposing opinion might be that, as a tv star, she might have a bad influence on young people. What would you say to that?

J: In that case,..well, i don't watch tv much, so I don't really know, but there are loads of scenes of people injecting stuff on talk shows or such, aren't there? Thats got to be more of a bad influence. I think people need to consider that more. Just because she appears on tv, it doesn't mean people are gonna start doing drugs.

K: Yeh, she isn't gonna do drugs on screen.

J: Yeah, rather, those scenes of syringes and stuff..

K: Yeh, the stuff on talk shows is more of a bad influence.

J: I think so.

T: So, in connection with this, what do you think about stopping the screening of movies etc which the person has starred in, which tends to happen at lot in the entertainment world..Joe san?

J: I can only describe it as nonsense. In the music world, it would be the withdrawal of records..., there is no meaning to it. Its totally separate from what they are expressing. As for music, no one ever talks about The Beatles' or The Rolling Stones' drug use. Thats a totally different issue...In relation to drugs, I think eradicating them is important, so for example, we could have a portion of that artist's sales being donated to organisations like DARC  (Drug Addiction Rehabilitation Center) in Japan, for example, which would be a good way to use them. I can't see any merit in just withdrawing thier works. If an artist returns to thier life, but is unable to be musically active, well, Tashio san is a good example of this *2, the places they can exist disappear gradually, and they become isolated. This is really sad. There's a possibility that leaving people in that isolated state can have a further negative influence, so there is no point in limiting the places people can work, or withdrawing thier works. I think Japan's management of this issue is problematic. In America, they don't arrest people for using drugs, they arrest the buyers and such, and thats what makes the news. But in Japan, you can see who's using drugs just by checking your phone. In particluar, famous people who use drugs are made into targets, to scare people, and to show how much your life will be ruined if you use drugs. It seems like its a kind of boosting of the zero tolerance policy which the Ministry of Health and Welfare introduced in the 1990s. It seems like that to me anyway.

Kami: Couldn't they make some kind of isolated place available, where its ok to do drugs?

T: Thats new.

J: Another novel idea from Kami.

K: Well, but yeah.

Kami: Because people who like drugs, will just like them.

J: I think so.

Kami: Yeh, so if you do that...because there are people who feel happier after taking medicine right?

J, T: Yeh.

Kami: Couldn't those type of people go to some place and be allowed to do it?

K: Without any crime occurring, right?

J: Right

T: Yeh, thats it.

Kami: No crime.

J: Well, i don't know if this is the appropriate way to express this, but in the case of drug dependence, its clear that the number one drug which causes mental and physical dependence is alcohol, rather than 'drugs'. You won't get arrested for alchol dependence, and the reason for that is because alcohol is legal. But incidents or fatal accidents cause by alcohol are ceaseless. There are a few incidents annually where someone murders after using drugs but, for example, as for people at the station falling onto to train lines, sixty percent of those are drunk, and many more people are killed by drunk drivers than drug addicts.

K: Well, its because there are many more people who drink alcohol.

J: Yes, the proportion is bigger. So if you consider these incidents in this way, they are certainly happening. In relation to drugs, there isn't really any logical explanation for them being illegal, but they are still strictly controled. Its a bit strange, but in America...well, it might be strange to always talk only about America, but the ban on cannabis, or medical cannabis has been lifted in America. In Japan, we have a situation where we can't even discuss such a thing, so I feel like it may be a bit of Galapagos syndrome....What do you think, Tasai san, about (Sawajiri's return)?

T: Well, she won't be able to eat, if she can't do tv work. From the viewers perspective, as long as its done appropriately..

K: Don't you need sponsers for tv though? So its not something she can really decide herself. But..on the stage or theater, if there are people who want to see her, I don't think it should be a problem.

T: Yeah

K: If there are people who say they don't want to see her on the airwaves, well, they are going to say that.

J: What do you think about her comeback, Kaoru?

K: Its completey fine to do it. Well, I mean she was doing a bad thing, but she has to carry on living. She could also find a different job, thats fine too.  As for returning to the entertainment world, well, i dont really know, but she should return to some kind of work as soon as she can.

J: Yes, thats it...It might be difficult in the entertainment world.

T: Right..Especially with sponsers.

Kami: Isn't that ok though?

K: Yeah, they'll use who they want.

Kami: Its only whether the sponser will use her or not, right? On tv?

J: On tv, yes.

Kami: If they have a reason to use her, they will.

J: But as Kaoru said, she might have more freedom on the stage or something. There must be something that only she can do, so it seems at waste to just kill off her talent.

Kami: If she herself decides to lay low for a while and self reflect on what she did, thats ok too. No one needs to tell her to. Now, i mention it, its the same with alcohol. If you drink too much and end up being late, you can self reflect and show remorse. If it was me i would deduct it from thier salary though.

J: *laughs* How fresh.

Kami: Its just a problem of whether or not they self reflect on it.

T: I see

K: Well, it depends on the circumstances of the person.

Kami: Yeh, in the end. Of course, drugs, but alcohol and cigarettes etc are all bad too, right? I really want to emphasise that. But at the same time, there are people who like them, who will use them anyway. As a result they will be punished by the law, and that will be enough. I think that should be a salary deduction, and then be finished with it. But your boss or someone might be mad at you *3

T: I see

J: Its like, I've had a deduction, so forget about it already.

T: So, that was Tokyo Sports' news.

J: Ahh, Oh! I wanted to ask you, who is it? Celebrity 'X', who is about to be arrested?

K: *laughs*

T: We'll put the news out to the whole world, so..

J: You'll find this if you search for Tokyo sports news, 'X'.

T: Oh, i can't tell you.

J: You can't? Damn

K: Kami might know.

J: He might.

K: But he's only a god for us three.

J:Yeh

K: Maybe he doesn't know.

J: He's not a worldly god.

Kami: I know who it is.

J: Oh, you know?

Kami: I know.

J: Kami, who is it?

T: Joe, don't ask that!

J, K: *laugh*

T: It'll be announced to the world...my account will be banned.

K: We need people to subscribe, right.

J: Yes yes yes yes.

K: Thank you very much, see you next time. Thank you.

J, T: Thank you

*1 It is or it isn't/they are or they aren't, or that type of thing.

*2 No idea who this is.

*3 Not 100% about what he means here.

[idreamtofmanderleyagain]

princess-nazario:

It's ok, thanks for clearing things up. See, everytime theres a post that might just be different the tumblr-fad! Version you speak or questions how tumblr might be romanticizing them theres always annoying people in the replies saying that theres a version where she wanders down the underworld herself, or that the version where shes kidnapped is...weak or a damsel in distress since it doesnt fit into tumblrs made idea of empowerment?? Its so annoying honestly. I saw this kind of stuff in a lot of posts while exploring the greek myth tag and its just... infuriating. I definitely should ignore them but it seriously makes me kind of sad and angry at the same time? The hades and persephone posts are everything(mostly tumblr-fad!) Version I reread your original post and yes I do agree, tumblr-fad! Persephone does take away a lot of the complexities and archetypes I read you examine. I think Hadestown might portray Hades and Persephone's power struggle well, it doesnt completely ignore the implications its giving off for the sake of some romance. This is what tumblr is doing and it's really annoying. By doing this and reducing the characters here to simple boxes it's taking away your interest in the myth, I think that's what you meant? I think your study of Hades/the underworld being Persephones self, cthonic meaning "spirit of nature within, inner self" while I dont fully understand that's really cool. I especially dislike how woobified and depowered he usually is in the tumblr-fad! Theres a lot you can work with him as the antagonist in a retelling I think. In fact maybe itd be great to have a retelling that explores the power struggle between Hades and Persephone and shows how Persephone gets through adversity and becomes of equal power through oppressive authority? Thatd be really cool. Tumblr-fad! Version is the twilight of myths but kind of the opposite. In twilight, the author itself romanticizes the creepiness and power struggle that might be there between Edward itself(although Bella does have a lot of agency so I think that's why it resonated so much with female readers?) while the Persephone has a various amount of versions, most versions being she was kidnapped/abduction with many meanings and metaphors and allegories to things, and tumblr-fad! Version ignores nuance in favor of their ships. Thanks for being so open and honest about this, I honestly was stressed because I thought my response maybe being immature or uninformed might be irritating or annoying. I haven't been sneaking through your blog or anything like that, I just saw your original post in the goddess demeter tag so I searched up "Persephone" on your stuff since I was curious with what else you might have to say about it. I wish Tumblr could maybe bother to learn something called not everything is entirely not THIS thing or the OTHER and maybe do something different from what Hades and Persephone coming to be known as the peak of all love stories on the website.

@princess-nazario I hope you don’t mind, I copy pasted your last reblog into a new post thread because the last one was getting massive.

I think I’m starting to understand what you’re getting at regarding the perception of victims as “weak,” and it makes a lot of sense. Thank you for clarifying regarding the “damsel in distress” trope because that’s when it clicked for me what you were talking about. I actually agree on that point, I think there is a tendency for pop feminism to kind of portray more vulnerable, sensitive or fragile women as less feminist, so I can see how you’re applying that to your views on how people on tumblr perceive the story of Hades and Persephone.

That said, I think you have a lot of different angles you’re looking at this whole thing from, and that’s great! However I think there’s so many subjects you are trying to tackle here that it seems like you are kind of are only half informed about, maybe from exploring discussions online. I think this is resulting in conclusions that are kind of confused and lacking in more solid foundations, if that makes sense. I think maybe you might benefit from exploring each element further on their own merits.

For example, did you know that there are a lot of different feminist viewpoints on Twilight itself? And not all feminists completely condemn it? In my opinion, there are a lot of things about Twilight to criticize, however there was a distinct element of hatred for the interests and desires of teenage girls involved with how people responded en masse to the Twilight phenomenon. I don’t think you were old enough to be directly familiar with all this at the time. I think a decent primer would be this video from Lindsay Ellis (tho please keep in mind that some of her most recent content is not for younger audiences). It doesn’t cover all angles of the topic, but it does give an alternative perspective in retrospect about the raging Twilight hate that swept through pop culture for a long time:

Also, there is a whole conversation to be had about the concept of “woobification,” and why that word exists, as well as how it is used in conversations about girls and women’s fantasies. The original post I made shows that I have my own frustrations when male villains and darker archetypes are whittled down to something seemingly non-threatening and “socially acceptable” myself (like...turning the beast into the prince in Disney’s Beauty and the Beast), but in my experience, people have often used the word “woobie” to describe any explorations of the vulnerability of these types of male characters when women do so because they find those men intriguing or attractive, and that can get kind of tricky because in many ways, those conversations can harbor a subtle resentment and shaming towards female fantasties, period.

I’m getting the impression that maybe there’s something about Hades and Persephone, or at least the archetypes they embody, that really intrigues you, but you’re not sure what you are supposed to think and feel about it from a feminist perspective. That’s ok, ultimately you’ll figure it out on your own. I can’t tell you what to think about the myths themselves on their own, separate from contemporary feminist media because that’s ultimately it’s own thing, and you can springboard your own perspectives and reimagining off of the original in any way that feels right to you.

 What I can do though, is leave you with some age-apropriate content that I was consuming at your age, as well as a link to a site that explores stories with similar archetypes that Persephone embodies. 

The site is called Girls Underground, and it explores and catalogues stories about girls who go on heroine’s journeys in the “Cthonic” context like I was talking about, as in exploring their own inner psyches through the experience of traversing a strange, scary, magical place. Sometimes these stories involve the trope of a spooky attractive male character who takes on an adversarial role that is sometimes also romantically charged, but not all of them do. I think the resources page may be of particular interest to you because it links to essays on subjects within this genre of storytelling. The Examples page has a ton of other stories not listed here that you can take a look at, however not all of them (but many of them!) are kid friendly.

Movies that I would recommend: 

Labyrinth (1986), which was my favorite film since early childhood, and is the reason I love these types of stories to begin with.

Legend(1985), which doesn’t depict a healthy dynamic, but is a great film and does have a big place in the general conversation about this type of storytelling.

Howl’s Moving Castle, either the book or the film. 

Pan’s Labyrinth is rated R for some gore and violence, and it has scary moments, but I think it’s fine for most teens. The character of Pan is not part of that whole “demon lover” trope because the heroine is a small child, but he takes on a similar role in terms of being a figure that embodies the underworld and thus a major part of the heroine’s psyche.

Honestly, I would consider Disney’s Beauty and the Beast (the original, not the live action remake) a good rendition. It was written by a woman.

Jean Cocteau’s black and white La Belle et La Bete.

Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte, or a film adaptation of the same.

Rebecca by Daphne DuMarier, which is what my username is from. I’m fond of the Hitchcock film adaptation.

Honestly, the 2004 adaptation of Phantom of the Opera is...flawed, but it was my introduction to Phantom, and it’s a lot of melodramatic fun. 

It’s worth noting that in a lot of these stories, there are not perfect, healthy relationships depicted between men and women. There is cruelty, there is harm. But in many cases, that does not mean these stories have nothing to say about relationships between men and women, nor does it say that they are solely tales about abuse and we cannot find romanticism within them. Each story has it’s own flaws, it’s own strengths, hold deeper meanings beyond the surface. They contribute something distinct to a rich history of artistic explorations of the dynamics of power in romance and the female experience with our own desires within a patriarchal society.

[misterbitches]

In my opinion Oh-aew had some sort of crush on Tay (I have to write it this way the dyslexia jumps OUT if I spell it Teh) or like affection whatever even if he didn’t know it which you can see when it manifests now.

(I mean ok I know it’s been one episode but I’m always right)

It’s interesting that he said he can’t handle the pain of losing a friend like that again. I was surprised when he said no to being that close again and that’s when I think it was made clear just how much it meant in retrospect.

The argument was so stupid and I’m not gonna make this explicitly about living in a Society but the idea of choosing and being jealous as if you can’t exist at once. What happens if art is fun? What happens when we realize we all have the lights in us.

When Tay was like I just want him to do poorly there was no basis besides insecurity. It’s such a stupid way of looking at things but human and immature. There’s no explicit guarantee one is better than the other but “nobody can replace anybody else so it would be a shame to make a comparison” (this is a fiona apple lyric) comes to mind. We can’t get to where we’re going together? And obviously that’s not true since they all have their friends that they grew up with.

I also like how it’s not outright opulence. Rich ppl suck and i dont want that in my eyes. I don’t feel bombarded with wealth and a fairytale. As if this would be the sole key to tbe happy ending that all media proposes is a victory in their laziness to ensure and please capital.

But that’s also clearly because this show was taken with immense care at least on the crew’s side. But for the cast yea that too I mean everyone’s so dramatic but it has its flair, very Thai, and they use the vibrancy and the landscape.

But this is what happens when things aren’t made at a constant rate and you try to churn out many episodes.

I find a lot of these shows to be unbearable and I have a high threshold for “good” acting because I’m overly critical and terrible but it was nice seeing them even if it was so much crying. I really love things that capture youth since a lot of mine wasn’t pleasant. The ups and downs are natural for them and it will be ok. They have friends and their city.

Usually I abhor the editing on most of these dramas (these = overwhelmingly the BL genre tho that recent japanese show...love...something idk they meet walking a line was very pretty and digestible) but, if I remember correctly, it’s really good here. In fact I am positive—it does absolute justice to the story. And the writing underlines the subtlety. So much of the show is about being young and exploration and I love it. Honestly, when he was trying to imitate the instagram picture it was just...wow that’s so teenage. I was so embarrassed.

That brings me to something else wrt editing. So a lot of asian dramas are very dramatic which isn’t my favorite thing but it has a clear cultural place so it means a viewer has to adjust to differences and see the merits within an alternate scope. I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever like the dramatic music they put in. I hate those musical cues like no other. This is just my preference and it will always be. I don’t know why it’s so allurin from a creative standpoint; we know the stakes! But it wasn’t so distracting that I couldn’t continue. I think I found the whole thing extremely cinematic so the hyped up musical cues kinda threw me off.

All in all it was very enjoyable and further critiques are minor and something that time can work out like some acting but seriously thag’s mostly nothing and I saw that they had acting coaches in the credit. I think they may have been on set—I haven’t watched the doc—but that’s something people take for granted and I respect it. Seriously. Or if other shows do these ones actually understand how to get their characters from point a to b.

Acting is such a cool art and comes in different atyles but I feel like our responses to it are so intuitive so the deliveryno matter what method has to embody life qualities. I could go on about this but I won’t cause ambien but even if there’s a political approach to acting (Brecht) it is stil rooted in life. For ONCE the cast and crew fix things accordingly (this isn’t just a BL problem but I also wouldn’t classify this as BL I guess gorl IDK im going thru it)

I’m more critical than usual and I’m going through a major artistic crises lol so it was nice. There’s a lot of unrest in Thailand so I won’t forget that people are struggling. I think something that moght get people to look mght is how beautiful it looks and that brings attention to artists. Artists who represent their country, or believe in something, or care and maybe introducing people to Thai film. Art can give us access to whole radical landscapes.

Even tho i’m in favor of pirating always I feel that contributing monetarily means support and it’s a big thing for me (which is why I so often opt out because I don’t support something but should have access to it bc LIFE) and the point is yo contribut and encourage, right? Which is why I believe in sharing, it isn’t capital that drives us to something, we get attracted to the merits and contribute with capital but that means a level if absolute respect back. This means that while I can’t really pay a bunch for the episodes I think I will buy two. Which never happens.

Lastly this is probably one of the worst yrs in existence. I break down crying when I think of lives lost and black people abd being inside and just the pressure of it all. I wouldn’t say escapism tho that has merit but we get to see a fun youthful world that is just missing. It’s missing. As much as I love contemplating on the absurd, theres solace in watching people go about without external pain cementing them