#because the assumption is definitely that the people writing fanfic are mentally ill women ONLY with fetishes

[bardicious]

It actually makes so much sense that fanfic is becoming more popular as time passes. First, obviously because it's in people's nature to retell versions of the same story or come up with their own twists, we've been doing so for ages with folk tales.

But also the way entertainment for the last half a century has been about either rehashing an old story, or making variations upon it. Sometimes adding new characters, settings, time periods, messages. I mean, look at Shakespeare's work or Jane Austen's, and lots more I don't have the memory to write down. This is literally what people do. We just have a different means of expressing and showcasing it now. And, of course, Hollywood's obnoxious insistence on beating a dead horse. Creating franchises out of everything. Specifically of the last two decades, which saw at least three separate Spider-men on the big screen, two separate sequels to Star Wars (each worse than the last), several reboots to many other franchises, and shows that wont end.

[plague-of-insomnia]

Lol I *hate* that post. Also like, most people don't read classic lit, and classic lit in general can be critized as being made up of primarily cis, white, straight men. Women and queer authors often have their works shuffled into YA. And fanfic?? Primarily made of of women and queer folk (and queer women). Which... is often what the reasoning is why it's targeted.

Also, children's lit and YA lit are some of the best works I've read. They deal with harsh topics. One of my favorite books from when I was a kid is Gossamer by Lois Lowry. My class read it in fifth grade (so like, 10 year olds) and it dealt heavily with abuse and coping with and recovery from trauma. The book Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson also deals with very dark themes, and it's YA. (Also both very good books and I highly recommend each. Look up the trigger lists for them. When I say they deal with dark subjects, I mean it.)

Fanfic and YA are such broad categories, and to dismiss them shows a clear lack of true understanding of literature. Typically, when people say they dislike them, it boils down to bias against queer people, women, and romance as a genre (which was spear headed by, you guessed it, queers and women).

Also, there's nothing wrong with liking tropes. I like tropes. Everyone likes specific tropes. We've all just been copying off of one another since the beginning of art creation, and we will continue to do so. Just let people enjoy things ffs. Reading is for fun and creating fanfic is for fun. Just because I read or write something doesn't mean I want to base a master's thesis around it

[In reference to this post: TL;DR - people who only read fan fic/YA aren’t capable of understanding/analyzing complex themes bc they’re obsessed with tropes]

Oof! @gabedemon, this is all a really good point/addition to why that OP’s point was 😬.

Now I’ll confess I do not personally like YA as a general rule, largely for two reasons: 1) I don’t like reading about teens and 2) for a while EVERYONE and their grandparents were writing YA to try and hitch onto the bandwagon of popular novels turned films like Harry Potter and The Hunger Games, et al, and so a lot of people were writing stuff just to try and ride a trend rather than bc that’s what they should have been writing/what their story actually wanted.

However, you are 100% right that there are some amazing novels that fall into that broad category and are worth reading whether you’re 15 or 95 (or somewhere in between).

One of the best novels I read before my headache began (and I stopped reading novels 😞) dealt with some really heavy issues (it was focused on suicide) — and it managed to delve into complex mental illness (like BPD, borderline personality disorder) and suicidality in a really realistic and complex way while not glorifying it in anyway. I highly recommend it, if the topic isn’t too tough for you (general you) to deal with, Suicide Watch:

I definitely think you see queer authors and their stories forced into niche publishers or fan fic (I don’t know if I would say only YA here as I’ve read a ton of non-YA queer published fiction).

I think you have some people who are just “snobs” who think only “serious” “literary fiction” is worth reading and has any depth. Those people have probably never read a really good YA novel (I also recommend Freaks Like Us for one that tackles mental illness in a insightful way) or any fan fic at all. (Or if they have, it’s something like My Immortal.) So they make the assumption that all fan fic must be meaningless drivel (as if there isn’t plenty of that in mainstream, published adult fiction or other media for that matter).

They also forget that people read for different reasons, and like you said, not everyone wants to read something to write a master’s thesis on.

Some “pulp” stories, like the Sherlock Holmes tales, have survived and proliferated across time and languages because people find them entertaining and can identify with the characters in some way. (Ofc some people like to analyze those stories but not everyone does; in fact, most people don’t, and that’s perfectly fine.)

So I think you have the snobs who really aren’t looking at it from a “I must crush queer writers,” though ofc you’re absolutely right about the fact that bias still exists among readers and publishers.

As I mentioned before, trying to publish a novel with a queer MC or romance through one of the big ones is really difficult for the same reason we see plenty of queer baiting in film but very few actual queer stories. Publishers are afraid that those stories won’t sell, will offend and affect sales of other books, etc, etc,

So we see the proliferation of queer stories and writers in fan fic where people are free to write whatever they want. And that’s really wonderful, imo. (But I also hope we finally see more mainstream queer stories and authors/creators as well.)

And as for tropes, honestly that was the dumbest part of the whole argument. Tropes have always and will always exist bc there’s just some things we humans love to see over and over and over again. I’m sure you could label just about any “high” art with a trope of some kind. Just bc something can be distilled into tropes doesn’t mean that’s all it is. I mean, writing programs always talk about things like “the hero’s journey” or whatever and that’s a kind of trope, too.

Anyway, I’m gonna stop before I keep rambling 😅 but yeah I think you make some really great points/additions, and I absolutely think that “all generalizations are bad” 😅😂 and trying to make a sweeping assessment like that is ridiculous.

Kind of reminds me of how much scorn “genre” fiction has gotten (think mystery novels or romance novels or sci fi, etc) because it’s “shallow.” But that has begun to change, and I do think we’re slowly seeing the attitude toward fan fic changing…. Now, if only we could chuck all the antis and their puritanical BS out the door….