#because it means that Adrien isn't a good person despite his circumstances

[samsimisauser]

Plagg should be able to interfere I think!

He's destruction. The end of all things. The absence of non-avian dinosaurs and the slayer of Dragon. The Doom of Atlantis.

It starts slowly, as these things always do. Slowly, destruction is not in any hurry. In the end it's going to win anyway, so might as well sample the cheese on the way there. They Transform the Kwami and his boy into a single entity, and everytime Cataclysm is used just a bit of that unstoppable entropic force seeps into the rings.

Wedding rings like these are, for obvious reasons, made out of Nobel metals, these particular ones are silver metallic, and also quite ancient they have been around for long time. None of the noble metals are particularly reactive with oxygen. Plagg is not the kwami of oxidation. They can not withstand, and so one day Gabriel look down on his hand, on his Ring and there's a little speck on it. Strange, he thinks and washes it off.

Must have gotten some gunk on it.

It keeps happening. He's getting worried. So he shows it to Nathalie, she doesn't now what's going on, why would she she's a relic hunter turned personal assistant. She recommends showing it to a jeweler.

The jeweler takes a look at the ring, and raises and eyebrow.

Have you been lightly misting you wedding ring with acid?

Gabriel is so insulted by this accusation he leaves.

One night he wakes up in a Cold sweat. He runs into his basement.

The discoloration is on her Ring as well.

Now that, is a different problem. It might be important for him, being his wedding ring and all, but it's his Son's life.

When Plagg meets Adrien, he can smell Duusu on him. Plagg knows exactly what that means - and it's not hard to figure out where the feather must be.

In this version of events, instead of trying to tell Adrien to disobey his father, Plagg tells him what the loopholes in Gabriel's orders are.

"He said you couldn't leave the press conference until it was over, but he never said you couldn't be the one to end it."

"He said you had to put on that outfit, but he didn't say you couldn't take it off again immediately after."

"He said he didn't want to hear the name Marinette, but you can still talk about Baker Girl." Et cetera

With Plagg's guidance, Gabriel's magical control over Adrien becomes essentially negligible, for the most part. Of course, still being Adrien's father, he still holds some sway in the boy's heart, but at least now Adrien is choosing whether to take Plagg up on those loopholes.

[jacquesthepigeon]

I mean the idea of Adrien having no major life ambitions isn't a bad one, could be a decent lesson for kids that it's ok to not always strive to do something big with your life. But we know that's either not what they were going for or if it was they botched the execution.

Yeah the thing is that it’s precisely because I was also mostly directionless that I want it to be properly explored and addressed through Adrien’s character

Something a lot of people don’t seem to get is that a lot of my frustrations with Adrien’s character comes from either relating to him myself or seeing my loved ones in some of his traits which makes the fact that the crew has so massively fucked up developing his character beyond “sad rich boy who is too good too pure for this world” all the more infuriating

People, especially victims of abuse, latch onto Adrien for comfort so the crew not using him as a vessel to inspire hope and change and growth despite the circumstances to instead keep him static and without agency is offensive to me

Adrien is not a real person, he is a symbol

I would not expect a real person to make dramatic strides in mental health recovery within such a short period of time but Adrien is different

He should represent possibilities and lessons and hope for anyone in a similar situation

How is his character going to genuinely comfort and inspire someone to take control (within attainable means) and accountability for their own lives if the narrative keeps him the way he is and babies him for it? Celebrates him for it?

It’s a slippery slope to complacency with being miserable and powerless

[tumblingxelian]

Trope - Disney Princess Syndrome

"Disney Princess Syndrome" is my personal name for the trope of a rich or powerful character portrayed as "Nice", "Good" or "Down to earth". Because they want to hang around "Normal/Real people" and want to be treated like a "Regular person" or otherwise does not think their phenomenal wealth makes them abnormal.

This trope/character concept is usually contrasted against another rich or powerful persons who flaunts their wealth intentionally, is aware they are rich and tends to be snooty, cocky or otherwise act in a manner that is more reflective of their phenomenal wealth.

Usually these characters are contrasted so that we like the former but hate the latter but weirdly… I often find myself either disliking both or liking the latter more. Largely cos they at least seem self aware of their circumstances and so come off as less frustratingly flippant or willfully ignorant.

Examples will be drawn from, Miraculous Ladybug.

I will largely avoid talking about how X character was raised, or trauma that might influence this behavior. But keep in mind people with bad home lives can often act out in ways that don't make them a "good" victim.

In ML, you have "Wants to be a normal boy" Adrien, "Wants to meet sincere people" Princes Ali, and "This is all so artificial" Musician Jagged Stone. They are contrasted against hotel heiress, Mayors daughter & smug about it Chloe.

Now:

Chloe's a brat, a jerk & a snob to be sure, however I still somehow find her less hypocritical or deluded than these other three because at least she seems aware of her circumstances and what they mean for her VS others. Jagged treats doing a small autograph session with the mayor like its some horrible imposition and he flips out at being expected to follow trends he deems artificial. But he also drags his literal assistant with him everywhere to manage his life, keeps a pet alligator on him at all times & can be extremely rude and demanding. But it never feels acknowledged in the same way as with Chloe, because he's 'real'. Prince Ali acts like its weird for people to try and charm or otherwise please him when assigned to give him a tour for a whole event about himself. He also seems to neglect what would be fairly typical greetings for someone of his class & position despite likely being taught them. This again ties into making him seem 'genuine' but comes off as just odd. Adrien balances it best by wanting his father to be less controlling and his father is indeed controlling. But he's also only bothered by Chloe, her parents or his fathers haughty behavior if it alienates him or people he wants to be friends with. He laughs it off or otherwise tends to ignore it with staff but is meant to be better.

This isn't to say a character 'can't' want these things, or find the trappings of wealth utterly unsatisfying. Especially children who are not themselves actually rich and exist at the whims of their parents who are often functionally immune to the law.

Its more an issue with how the trope tends to be executed. Both in terms of the "Disney Princess" who wants to be "Out there" having no self awareness of their wealth, or internal hypocrisy. With this being framed as more endearing than anything, despite often coming off as entitled or selfish by accident.

Or in how the rich jerk just ends up feeling more grounded, or accidentally becomes sympathetic because they are usually an antagonist. Thus meaning they not only have to lose, but usually are surrounded by people like themselves. Leaving the impression their behavior is less to do with having the money to get away with t and more born of mistreatment.

& that as they say is that.

[zoe-oneesama]

Hello, Zoe! I can't believe there's only four episodes left of SL. I see you recently finished Frightningale. The next is I believe Malediktator. I would love top hear your thoughts of the episode.

Lord have mercy, this episode wasn't good when it came out and only got worse with hindsight:

There are two big, huge stinkers in this episode. Chloe's "arc", which got covered in even more mold over time, and Adrien.

My thoughts at the time (and I know because I went back and FOUND my thoughts) was that this episode would've been a good START for Chloe's redemption..but it was the Finish. So it sucks.

It had all the elements. Chloe being Chloe:

Pretending to be Ladybug just to sing her own praises as Queen Bee

Making her Important Historical Person Project about herself

Getting insultingly defensive when called out and doubling down despite how obvious her lie is

Focusing on Marinette telling her she's not a hero despite the rest of the class being just as "mean" about her time as Queen Bee

Her over the top demands of a disproportionate punishment for the slight by crying for Daddy to shut down a school and banish Marinette from the city

Having an over the top tantrum when she doesn't get her way by declaring she's leaving the country despite her father being on his knees, begging her not to go

Making an over the top announcement of her departure under the delusion that her going to live in New York will somehow negatively effect her former classmates

Her continuing to lie about the circumstances of the akuma to Ladybug herself, only trickle truthing after being pressed multiple times

And in the conclusion, flaunting her ridiculous wealth to not only her peers who were doing something nice for her, but to her best friend who was genuinely upset at her leaving.

Chloe being Chloe. Chloe being a liar, a bully, a spoiled princess who only cares about what SHE wants.

And in this episode she breaks the one person who was always in her corner, even more than Sabrina - her father. As far as a redemption arc goes, that's probably the best way to start things, because this is the guy who'd drop everything for her, bend heaven and earth for her whims, who abandoned his dreams of being a movie director to instead become Mayor to get the power and money to take care of her (at Audrey's insistence). And she broke him. Left him, just like her mom left them both before.

In another universe, maybe this would be the thing that broke Chloe, that finally made her look inward and realize that the call of toxicity, negativity, and entitlement is coming from inside the house. She is the one who makes people around her miserable, and in turn, herself miserable, because it makes no one want to be with her, it makes no one like her.

Realizing this, vocalizing this, and doing something about this could've been a good start. She can be rewarded for being vulnerable and open and taking responsibility by being given the Bee Miraculous and being allowed to fix things, which could start her wanting to fix things without a Miraculous. Thus, a START of her redemption arc.

But as I noted back then, and as I note now, this isn't the start. It's the finish.

All this vulnerability about not being liked and hurting her daddy's feelings and feeling worthless comes after info-dumping about her Sad Mommy issues which were pretty much resolved as soon as they were brought up THANKS TO HER SWORN ENEMY MARINETTE, and after she picked up a Miraculous and kept it for herself, and after she abused that power to CRASH A TRAIN to try and win herself clout. So I'm sorry that I don't care that Chloe "deserves a second chance" or that "maybe Queen Bee will make her a better Chloe" after she almost killed people to show off for Mommy.

The big finale says "Well Chloe's sad so maybe she could possibly be good, though only when it directly effects her." She can't even muster a goddamn thank you for the party, they didn't even pretend she was going to change.

And that's where hindsight makes this even worse. I clocked this as a failed start when this episode came out, but adding on top of that the next two seasons where she unofficially joins the villain's side makes this even dumber.

The episode does the usual shtick of Somehow Blaming Marinette: she feels bad for telling Chloe she's not a hero, she feels bad for celebrating her leaving, she gives HERSELF partial blame for Andre being akumatized. Well, I don't blame her, show. In fact I'd say she's pretty justified.

For one, what did Chloe do as Queen Bee that was heroic? Try to crash a train to get credit for stopping the crash, which she couldn't even do, and then being akumatized? How about the fact that she found this Miraculous and didn't return it? Or let's look wider and assume Marinette wasn't even talking about just Queen Bee: What has Chloe done that was heroic? Oh one time she kinda helped with Despair Bear - oh wait but she also CAUSED that akuma so it kinda cancels out.

Chloe's not a hero. She could be, she has all the resources, she just isn't because she doesn't want to be.

And why should Marinette feel bad that Chloe's leaving? Adrien says she left angry and upset, but she seemed pretty content when she was throwing out fliers from her helicopter and announcing it to the whole school in one last hurrah. Play me the world's smallest violin. After TWO SEASONS of abuse from this whiny little rich girl, why shouldn't Marinette be happy for herself? Happy that she won't have to worry about her property being vandalized? Or work stolen? Or relative's career sabotaged? That next year she doesn't have to dread going to school because there's no chance Chloe will be in her class? Why WOULDN'T she throw a party over that?

And in what universe is Marinette to blame for the akuma that she didn't even come in contact with? Just because, as usual, Chloe decided to blame Marinette for all the backlash she rightfully got even though Marinette was the last one to say something? Just because her classmates agreed with what Marinette said, and Chloe got weirdly fixated on Marinette, and Chloe took it out on her father, it's somehow Marinette's burden and blame for Maledictator? Sure Jan, that'll hold up in court. The mental gymnastics to even blame a twice removed party...

And all of it is for naught. Marinette sees a vulnerable side of Chloe and gives her a chance as a hero and throws her a party to celebrate her "accomplishment" as Queen Bee because "Being Ladybug made me a better Marinette, maybe being Queen Bee will make her a better Chloe".

Well guess what. It didn't. It inflated her already massive ego and gave her another thing she felt entitled to that she didn't earn and led to the mother of all tantrums when she was told multiple times she wouldn't be getting her way, leading to Marinette losing Fu as an ally. All the self flagellation, all the bowing to Chloe's ego, all the hoops Marinette went through to make Chloe feel better did nothing to help Chloe change into a better person, so all it is is a waste of time and teaching Marinette a lesson that ends up blowing up in her face. It was frustrating back when this episode came out to see how unearned it all was, and now it's extra frustrating because you know how pointless it all was. All the deliberate audience manipulation for a complete non-starter.

SPEAKING of frustrating to watch, I believe I promised you TWO big stinkers in this episode.

Get back here Adrien, I'm barely even started with you. How fucking dare you come in here and lecture anyone about treating Chloe badly? I don't care if Chloe was your friend when no one else is, that doesn't invalidate the happiness everyone - and I mean EVERYONE, including teachers, your classmate, and your own Best Friend - was feeling at her departure. Good for you that she was a warm body to stand next to in your childhood years, but what kind of criteria do you even have Mr. If We Made Eye Contact We're Friends?

Because you haven't shown us that she was a good friend. Hell, you haven't shown us YOU were a good friend! If you were so concerned for her, why didn't you go after her when she left in a huff? Why didn't you text her or try to convince her to stay? Why didn't you stop your class from pointing out her bullshit when she gave her duplicitous presentation? Why NOW is your only move to berate her number one abuse victim (next to Sabrina) and then sulk in the corner like a dark cloud trying to ruin everyone else's good time?

Why aren't you NOW going after her or texting her? Why are you still at this party? Why aren't you lecturing any of your other friends about what they're doing? Why why why?

(Logistically it's so Marinette and Adrien are on the outer rim of the party and don't get hit by Maledictator's command spell to destroy the school, but literally since when has the show cared about logical reasons for the two to get away from a crowd?)

You know what sucks? This episode was fun until Adrien opened his big mouth. Everything was fast paced and melodramatic and over the top and fun - and then party pooper Adrien has to call everyone TeRriBlE despite ALL the terrible things Chloe's done over the course of this series RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.

And because the writing is poor and doesn't want to actually challenge Adrien in any way, they have Marinette call Chloe "useless" when that is literally the least of her problems: a bully, a brat, selfish, spoiled, vindictive, manipulative, a liar, self centered, delusional, I don't know, just plain fucking MEAN. If Marinette stuck to any of these things that Adrien couldn't refute, maybe we could've had something INTERESTING here. But instead they gave him a near strawman just so he could refute ONE THING "bad" about Chloe instead of confronting the fact that his childhood friend was and is a shitty person.

Maybe on top of Chloe realizing something about herself, we have Adrien realize the nature of their relationship: that he's so conditioned to accept her and his father's crap that he's even conditioned to be uncomfortable when anyone ELSE challenges their crap. That he's put unrealistic expectations on his other friends just because of his own coping strategy against the people in his life that constantly take advantage of him. That it's unfair of him to expect other's to just shut up and put up with unfair treatment just because shaking the status quo makes him kinda nauseous. Just, you know, if they wanted to do something INTERESTING for once.

Maybe this could've where Adrien realizes that not only do his friends deserve to be treated better, but so does he. That by not invalidating his friend's feelings, he can stop invalidating his own. It could be a first step to him overcoming his people-pleasing nature and begin his own arc about taking charge of his life, maybe eventually leading into him taking control of his portion of the plot, MAYBE leading him into being an actual deuteragonist in this series instead of the semi-damsel love interest.

If Adrien would've been made to actually face the fact that the person he grew up with was a garbage person, maybe he'd take some time to look at his dad differently, or Nathalie, or even his own mother and try to see them from a different point of view. A view where he realizes he deserves better.

But instead he manages to guilt trip the only person in the room who wouldn't have challenged him so badly that she actually gives the cruelest person she's known a freaking Miraculous and throws her a celebration party for doing ONCE the thing she herself does on a daily basis with no accolades. And it was aaaaaaaall worthless.

Or should I say "useless"?

[nobodyfamousposts]

There's still a lot about Fu we don't know, but I can't help but feel he isn't a great guardian. He thinks someone helping an old man up is a good enough reason to give the power to destroy anything they want. Marinette is a great Ladybug, but she's a teenager. Were there really no adults who would be better suited to take on the responsibility of fighting akumas? Some of which having god like powers! Just seems he didn't put enough thought into choosing the heroes.

True. He clearly has a history we haven’t been shown yet. I for one would like to know more about this “one mistake” he’s supposedly made in the course of over 150+ years.

That said, you have a point about his Guardianship. It may be because he IS the last one left and there was likely much that he wasn’t informed of before everyone else perished. He could read the ancient text, but he didn’t know what was in it until Marinette brought it to him. He didn’t know the ingredients for the transformation potions prior to getting the book and it was Marinette who figured out the secret ingredient.

It admittedly made sense to make Marinette Ladybug given the secret test of character he gave her and what it cost her to help him, but it does beg to question if he really had been just wandering around Paris putting himself in difficult situations just waiting for someone at some point to step in and help him. It seems like a poor use of his time and resources.

Not to mention that he IS leaving the fate of the world itself to teenagers. Yes, it’s a common trope, we get that. Yes, there’s the reasoning of the innocence of youth, the next generation, passing the torch, helping them and seeing how they grow, etc and all that. But there’s usually some indication of mentoring and teaching that goes hand in hand with this sort of thing, and we’re not actually seeing him do much in the way of either for Marinette and Adrien at this point.

It’s season 3. They just faced HAWK MOTH in person. He kicked their butts despite by all accounts having no in-story justification to. He was stronger physically and in terms of powers despite the fact that our two heroes have been clearly more physically active and are supposed to have the two ultimate and most powerful of the Miraculous. So why are they so weak in comparison? And if they are this outmatched, why isn’t Fu setting up some sort of training or something for them by this point? Maybe unlock some of those great powers we’re repeatedly told these specific two Miraculous are supposed to have?

I’m hearing that he’s finally made his intent clear to make Marinette the next Guardian of the Miraculous, which seems fitting, particularly because SHE seems to be the one discovering the most about them and doing the Guardian’s job at this point. But we’re not seeing him follow through. We’re not seeing any indication of Marientte regularly meeting with him outside of akuma attacks to do training or initiation or anything to prepare her for this very vital role. It may just be another case of them telling and not showing us, but it honestly seems more like it’s not happening at all, much like any sort of training for the kids so they don’t accidentally get themselves killed fighting monsters that can literally erase people from existence, control nature, and alter the fabric of reality.

I’m not saying that picking an adult would be a better choice. I’m saying that if you’re picking someone to do these things, shouldn’t you at least make sure they can actually handle it after you do?

The problem here isn’t just that he didn’t put much thought into picking the heroes, it’s that he hasn’t done much to help them BE heroes. They went the entirety of season 1 with no help, no guidance, and no training. They were having to teach themselves how to fight and use their powers appropriately before Fu finally saw fit to reveal himself to either of them and only because he HAD to due to Tikki’s insistence because of outside circumstances. If he had his way, he never would have been revealed at all. And I understand the need for secrecy, I really do. But his secret tests of character were simple tasks that tested how nice these kids were when they weren’t superheroes with special powers but ultimately said very little for their mental state or ability to manage once they were.

We saw how Marinette initially panicked. We saw how she didn’t give up in the end though she really wanted to. And that says a lot about her strength and determination. But imagine if the Miraculous was given to someone else who flat out COULD NOT handle it and ended up getting killed just because they were nice enough to help a guy cross a street and said guy thought it would be a good idea?

For instance, the Lucky Charm ability is quite frankly the most roundabout, confusing, and overly complicated power of all the Miraculous. The fact that Marinette is able to make use of it is impressive and admirable, but it’s been stated that her “Lucky Vision�� is just the inner working of her own mind and not a special ability of the Ladybug Miraculous itself. That means that unless the Lucky Charm changes depending on the user, there stands a very good chance that anyone else who tried to be Ladybug in her stead would have died in that first battle because they would have wasted time and likely make a mistake trying to make sense of what the hell they had been given.

I know I’m being harsh here, but as it stands, the fact that Marinette and Adrien have managed as well as they have for going on three seasons is frankly a miracle in and of itself.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Also. When bringing up the bad tendencies of the Ladynoir side of the love square (for now), I really wish people would keep the reason in mind WHY these tendencies came to be in the first place

Despite being partners and having built a genuine friendship, LADYBUG AND CHAT NOIR DONT KNOW WHO THE OTHER ONE IS IN CIVILIAN LIFE! THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE OTHER ONES LIFE

No. When Ladybug became physically too rough with Chat Noir (every kind that was displayed), disregarded him or made comments to/about him that hit a sore point and left him feeling under appreciated or worthless, that was NEVER her intention!

Marinette doesn't know that Chat Noir has a fucked up home situation with an incredibly neglectful/abusive father (freaking HAWKMOTH himself) and a lost mother he's grieving for. Marinette doesn't know Chat Noir was isolated his entire life and when he focuses on her instead of the battle hes only reaching out to her out of his loneliness. Marinette doesn't KNOW that Chat Noir is a public person as a civilian too and not only has to lead a very restrictive, full and controlled lifestyle, his very freedom is also dependent on his submission/obedience and his incredibly demanding fathers moods. Marinette doesn't KNOW that Chat Noirs kindness, his love and his good heart are literally one of the most true displays of strength in the entire show. That because of all the shit he had to go through and still IS, Chat Noir could have very much become even worse than Chloe or Lila (it's not like Adrien ever had even one NON shady person in his life! To say the LEAST) but her Kitty just outright REFUSES to let the world break him down like that!

Marinette doesn't know. How could she know? She doesn't see Chat all that much and at first she only got to know him as this happy, confident and laid back boy who wants to have fun. Marinette doesn't have all the information about him as WE do because even if Adrien is much more open about his feelings as Chat he still has more walls up than Berlin Germany after world war fucking two.

And if she knew she would immediately change her behavior and adapt to a more suitable way. We have seen it aplenty. Anansi, Sandboy and Chat Blanc just as most obvious examples.

Yes Marinettes/Ladybugs treatment of Chat Noir still has to improve alot until the end of the show (because I swear to God Adrien isn't the only one whos sometimes bringing some serious entitlement into their dynamic and pretending like she's not isnt erasing her past actions), but don't forget she already DID improve alot in these 3 seasons. Because little by little she gets to know him better and grows increasingly fonder of him while he improves too at the same time.

So by GOD ALMIGHTY, give her a break! She has literally no informations to Chat Noirs real life. She may know HIM as a person but not his circumstances, his past, the people in his life or the abuse hes enduring.

She's no wizard and only has her own life experiences to guide her as well. She will continue to improve don't worry. She's getting there step by step the same way as Adrien is getting there as Ladybugs partner.

Ladybug and Chat Noir are 14 year olds who basically aren't ALLOWED to know anything about each other, the dynamic and development displayed in the show is perfectly normal and realistically paced for the given circumstances. Just because other shows always present this situation in a way less realistic fashion where somehow no real complications occur doesn't it mean miraculous has to do the same

So give it a rest and let her breath. Chat means alot to Marinette she just doesn't know how to properly express that or that shes wrong in her assumptions when she thinks Chat Noir will be able to just shrug off her behavior because her herself, him and their freaking circumstances!

On Ladybug salt for “not treating Chat right”

You know, I wonder… sometimes I see Marinette salted for not appreciating Chat enough and sometimes for belittling him (mostly on reddit. Tumblr and AO3 tend to go waaaaay far in the other direction). And she does sometimes tease him or throw a bit of banter his direction that I can see being interpreted that way. Though I don’t think he takes that to heart quite as much as some of Marinette’s salters do. (See the same thing happen when it comes to Alya’s salters salting her for ribbing Marinette. Marinette can dish it too, she just tends to do it more with Chat on-screen than with Alya.)

Chat definitely has some major insecurities, showcased especially prominently in Syren, when he’s feeling like Ladybug doesn’t trust him and doesn’t need him, and that no one would know or care if he was gone. It also rears up a few other times a bit less prominently, like in Anansi when he’s afraid that Ladybug will replace him with Carapace, Sandboy when it’s revealed that one of his greatest fears is that Ladybug has never cared about him and would like to get rid of him, Reflekdoll with how after he struggles and fails to come up with a workable plan for the Lucky Charm himself he believes that he could never measure up to her, never do what she does, and in Desperada he believes that she doesn’t need him as Chat Noir… admittedly because she told him as much.

I don’t think Marinette realizes how much these things actually affect Chat. Even in Glaciator, she didn’t realize that he’d been serious about his feelings the whole time. She does try to comfort him in individual circumstances when she notices him feeling down - In Anansi she tells him that he’s irreplaceable after he seems put out about Carapace, and in Desperada in a later timeline, she tells Viperion how important it is that Chat Noir is with them while he’s in earshot. In Syren she noticed that Chat had been feeling like he was being shoved aside and being treated as lesser because he wasn’t permitted to know what was going on, and in Sandboy she asked him whether he really thought she was as evil as his nightmare of her was.

But she doesn’t seem to realize the full extent of how deep these feelings run. She throws out a line or two comforting him when she notices he’s feeling down, but then he seems to perk back up and get back to business, so she thinks everything’s fine. 

Chat has a tendency to express his feelings more bluntly than Marinette does, but he also tends to cover them up more afterwards - or tries to at least. So she thinks that it’s taken care of, for the most part. Even when there are some MAJOR red flags, like Chat’s nightmare version of her hating him, having ALWAYS hated him, and wanting to destroy him. she doesn’t seem to understand what it really represents.

Ladybug: Cat Noir? You don’t really think I’m as evil as your nightmare, do you? Cat Noir: ‘Course I don’t. You’re the lady of my dreams. (Ladybug smiles to the spot where Cat Noir had disappeared)

She sees him as thinking she’s evil, but that’s not the case. He’s insecure about whether she really cares about him, and whether deep down she’d rather have someone else as her partner, and merely tolerates him because he’s there. 

But Marinette doesn’t GET that. And I think I can see why. That’s a relatable, realistic insecurity, but not one that she can easily imagine him having because… well, it’s just not true. She KNOWS it’s not true. It’s easier to think that he had a nightmare of her being evil because of how insanely absurd that thought is, and because that plays into her own insecurities of thinking she’s done things so terribly wrong that she’s come off that way. 

The more realistic, smaller-scale insecurities that Chat actually suffers from? That’s harder for her to imagine. I think partly BECAUSE she suffers from her own, similar insecurities about not being good enough and messing up and having the people she care about hate her… but she doesn’t react the way Chat does. When she’s deeply insecure about that and feeling very anxious, she comes up with wild scenarios that spiral out of control and verges on having anxiety attacks, and doesn’t calm down easily unless either some solution is presented or someone takes her by the shoulders and calmly, reassuringly tells her that she’s got this, they’ve got this, that things will work out, that she’s not alone. Her anxiety is more obvious and it takes more to (seemingly) calm her down from it.

Chat’s anxiety is more subtle. It tends to manifest as seeming more slightly grumpy and put out, rather than the full-blown anxiety attacks that she suffers from, and he tends to direct his hurt outwards towards others (though pretty mildly, considering matters), while she directs her hurt inwards at herself, sending herself deeper into a spiral unless someone’s there to break her out of it.

Because they manifest so differently, she doesn’t recognize that they’re similar sorts of hurt, and that Chat would benefit from more frequent and in-depth conversations and reassurances. She only really knows her own type of reaction to those feelings of inferiority and uselessness, so Chat’s displays fly under her radar.

Honestly, this is part of why I like to emphasize just how YOUNG these children really are. They both have very limited frames of reference (Adrien especially), so they both can miss out on what others are thinking and feeling, especially when they react differently to similar thoughts and feelings. Combine that with neither of them having fully developed emotional control or coping mechanisms, and they can sometimes hurt each other without intending to. They’re kids, they’re going to be inexperienced and immature at times.

But they love and care about each other, and if either of them realized the full pain (and the reason for that pain) that the other was going through, they’d try to help as best they could.