#because he's out of character and what was even the point of ending by Thad-Thawneing him

[isfjmel-phleg]

There are some lines that apparently even supervillains don't cross.

Lex Luthor (...kind of, it's a long story): Murder, cover-ups, and exploitation are fine, but it would be inappropriate to give alcohol to a teenager.

Vandal Savage: Committing casual murder, stealing children for lab experiments, and using my numerous descendants as spare parts are fine, but it would be inappropriate to give my nineteen-year-old employee a bottle of wine for Christmas.

(Adventures of Superman 1987 #502)

(The Ray 1994 #20)

Triumph after going evil: Not only will I mind-control my nineteen-year-old former best friends as pawns in my scheme to take over the JLA, I will invite them to meet up with me for drinks in a bar.

(JLA #29)

This is how we know how far this man has sunk. He's resorting to Crimes that even confirmed supervillains won't.

[radioactive-earthshine]

Forgive me for being ignorant in your inbox but could you explain just how Bart is from another reality??? I've read all of Impulse and Young Justice and this never came up once I think. Did I miss something and I'm just being dumb?

Hello, you're not dumb. This was something not established until several years after Young Justice ended and takes place during the era of TTv3.

The words used is "parallel timeline" and not necessarily 'another reality' but they are talking about the Multiverse. Alternative timeline is also an acceptable way to describe what happened with Jenni and Bart and the entire story can be found on two pages in Final Crisis #3 ... if you even accept it.

This was written by Geoff Johns for the Final Crisis event where three Legion teams are brought together to take down Superboy Prime once and for all, fix reality, and to bring back Kon and Bart who were at this point in time very dead (but not really...)

Basically, Geoff decided to try and answer an old question of what future timeline did Barry Allen actually have his children in if the post-zero hour reboot should have wiped out Don and Dawn Allen, because the future would have changed to one that Barry should have never visited.

Bart and Jenni's origins are all deeply entwined with the Post-Zero Hour timeline, however Bart's first introduction and first rumblings as a character put him right before that Zero Hour reboot happened (by a couple months) so there were some.... questions... about his existence AND Jenni.

Bart technically could still exist as he was evacuated before the reboot hit, but Jenni... Jenni should not have existed in the Post-Zero Hour reboot at all if she was born before then unless the writers decided to reboot her too (which would have been an acceptable answer).

Geoff decided to try to untangle it (above) but he didn't do it particularly well because the above doesn't make sense in regards to both Jenni and Bart's established back stories.

1.) Jenni's backstory FIRMLY states that when Don and Dawn were murdered Jeven evacuated Jenni and himself back to his homeworld - granted this could still have happened with the above in place but if he arrived in an alternative timeline what home would he have to return to?

2.) Iris did NOT watch Jenni and Bart age to teenagers in days this just didn't happen. Jenni did not have Bart's hypermetabolism and she was actually normal until she got her powers as a teenager. By that time, Iris and Bart were already in the past. Iris broke into the facility holding Bart and evacuated him to the past, when he was physically 12, and then he aged to age 14 while fighting Wally. Jenni aged normally so there was no 'watching them age to teenagers in days'.

3.) Thaddeus Thawne. This makes BOTH Thad Thawnes impossible because President Thawne ordered both Don and Dawn murdered and engineered their deaths very shortly after Bart's birth, in fact Bart's birth is what prompted this! If they were from an alternative reality/timeline why would the new Thawne think to do this if Bart was already born? Also, why would he create Inertia who was the person at fault for Bart dying and is the "bad thing" that happened to the Flash Family Adult Brainiac is talking about. Yes you could say President Thawne is THAT unhinged (he is) but it just doesn't seem likely.

4.) If Don, Dawn, Jeven and Meloni jumped to an 'alternative timeline' then which Iris helped Bart escape to the past? Are there two Irises? The comic seems to imply that it was the original Iris but it's still vague enough to leave some holes. How did the original Iris get to Earth 247? Also, Iris did not reunite with Jenni until Jenni visited the past because when Iris rescued Bart - Jenni was on Arrok.

5.) Mushy memories as an excuse to cover up some blatant holes in the character's heads and the readers own recounting of events is lazy.

6.) Meloni Thawne's recounting of events in previous comics always paints a very clear picture that her father watched her fall for Don and was adamantly against it - if she was from an alternative timeline/reality then why would the President Thawne in the new reality (Earth-247) still be so persistent in trying to stop her union to Don? If she was reality jumping then she would have already married AND had a kid so... moot point.

It just doesn't work. Even if you are generous and claim it was cosmic soup as a result of the explosion it doesn't work.

But this is canon but it's canon that doesn't work - we get this sometimes and it's just up to the reader to decide what is and is not canon. If you never read ANY of the 90s comics, this would make sense and would be fine. But if you did, this would just make you scratch your head.

There's more impossibilities you can pick at, and some things that happened in the comics that Johns' fix does actually fix, but I am tired and am not going to go into them right now.

Other mysteries and mushy timeline nonsense; Jenni is actually supposed to be 2 years older than Bart.

[brown-little-robin]

Now I'm thinkin about all the clones and the enneagram

So is Rebekah @isfjmel-phleg! Only she hasn't met all of them yet so she's just trying to figure out Two right now. He's being slippery about it.

No but what ARE you thinking about the clones and the enneagram? I'm curious. I don't know the enneagram that well, but at a glance, I'd classify them like this:

and okay, this got long, as usual when I talk about my clones.

Two: Five or Six? He's very inward-facing, a strategist who bases his worth on his competence and usefulness and revels in new knowledge (Five qualities), but he also has some qualities of Sixes (overthinking, fear of abandonment, loyalty and deep desire to have security in relationships.) He's the main character, so I'm in his head all the time, and he's the most similar to me, and I have a hard time perceiving him OR myself as any one definitive type. Rebekah placed Thad Thawne of Mercury Falling as a Three, which seems accurate. And the enneagram website says that disintegrating Sixes look like Threes, which tracks. So... probably six...??

Three: ...probably a seven?? He's the most energetic of the clones, and he thrives on chaos and fun. He's an extrovert and a charmer. He likes to be spontaneous; he's the kind of person who always has to do as many activities as humanly possible in a vacation. However, he gets defensively upset at others when they point out his flaws (impulsiveness, stubbornness, impatience, anger, violence). And he IS very stubborn and quite focused, unlike the typical seven.

Four: Okay, look. Thad Four is probably a four? Very introspective, attuned to his environment, dedicated to creating beauty around himself (he builds his own house in Colorado!), believes himself unique as a key part of his identity. But also, to really analyze Four, you have to get into his alters, and I'm pretty sure that "Thaddeus" is an Eight (self-sufficiency, baby!!! Thaddeus is a protector of the rest of the system and tends to be standoffish. No one can make sure Thad is safe like he can.)

Five: Type One all the way. Perfectionistic, self-flagellating, and disciplined, he believes himself to be "a bad person" but still strives after a mission based on his strong sense of right and wrong because he can't do anything else. He has to be animated by a mission. He's the clone who saves all of the others—but he also has the bitterest disagreements with the others.

Six: ...I really don't know. He has such a terrible personality switch after his powers are taken away. He starts as a devil-may-care adrenaline junkie and ends up as a deeply sad goth magician who just wants to help others and let himself disappear into the background. Maybe he's a Four? But he wants deeply to help others, and he does have a strong sense of identity. I could see him as a Nine, too. He becomes quite helpful—and conflict-avoidant, too.

Seven: type two. He wants so badly to be a good person and not a monster. He feels most at peace when he's helping others, he genuinely cares about others and enjoys being nurturing and gentle. But he also throws himself into that role in an unhealthy way. If he's helping others, they won't hurt him, right? if he's helping others, he doesn't have to think about how broken he is, right? he can get up early and make muffins for Three. He can knit a sweater for CRAYDL. He can be a shoulder to cry on for Two. If he plays his cards right maybe he can even become a confidante of his adoptive parents.

Eight: Either type Two or Nine, I'm not sure and I don't have Eight fleshed out enough yet to really know.

Nine: type eight, I think? Outspoken, aggressive, decisive, arrogant. But he doesn't really want to be type eight; he wants validation and love. He wants to be a reliable, loyal servant who's praised and valued. So maybe he's more of a deeply burned Six—he became competitive and arrogant and mean in order to gain all the small scraps of approval he could get. Also, he was terrified of Seven, caged in with him in that little lair.

So Four is the only one who is the same number as his enneagram type. Hah.

[dementedspeedster]

do you think thad will find any closure if/when he returns for the legion of zoom arc? will thawne resurrect him or pull him somewhere from his past before he died? will he be a different person? i can't imagine eo just bringing him back without any explanation or some sort of supervision/training, but i also can't imagine anything. like.. i'm literally an adult losing my shit over a 16 year old murder twin baby i need to be slapped.

//-Pats your back.- Don’t worry anon, I am also an adult who has put too much stock and time (look at this blog I’ve been here like 8 years I think) into a fictional character.

//I have some serious worries about Thad’s reappearance in The Legion of Zoom, especially regarding his character. Canon has been thrown out the window before when it comes to Thad’s characterization. He’s gone from saying he considered calling himself Kid Zoom when Bart became Kid Flash, but in the end thought it was a stupid idea (Titans East Arc), to, albeit forcibly thanks to Hunter, becoming KID ZOOM and sticking with the name and costume until his death (Rogues Revenge), which was just terrible to read through as a fan of Thad. So, really anything can happen. I honestly think Thad will be a different person or probably stick to his more villainous characterization thanks to his Kid Zoom arc and death being his last real appearance.

I doubt there’s going to be any closure for Thad. I want to hope that there’s some character development/closure/etc for him, but I’m going to be a bit of a realist/pessimist and say there probably won’t be.

As for how he’ll come back I’m guess it’ll be something that has do with the multiverse and how it’s bringing back people randomly? I honestly have no idea what’s going with DC’s most current universe? Prime Earth is it? Though I guess Williamson did reference a page from Rogues Revenge with Thad in it, so maybe he will reference his death? The page on the right is also clearly after those events of Rogues Revenge where Thad had stolen Hunter’s speed, so he’s probably dead by that point if they are being exact and pulling from those events.

I’d definitely like to see what Eobard’s reasoning for picking Thad to join him is (also why not just make this another Thawne Family vs Flash Fam arc?; I mean probably because it was done before), but also what Thad’s reasoning for joing is as well. I’d REALLY like to see if that makes any sense. Because that’s what I’m really having a hard time believing. I doubt Thad would be willing to join forces with Eobard at all after everything that’s happened to him. I really can’t reconcile the events of the Impulse comics with him working with his family (any  fellow Thawne) ever, or even just working with with Eobard. It feels like a repeat of his bad choices during the Kid Zoom arc. He worked with Hunter and that didn’t work out. (And ironically Hunter worked with Eobard more recently and that didn’t work out either). It’s very hard to picture when you’re familiar with Thad’s character and history.

I’d really just like Thad to backstab Eobard. It would be poetic with his whole history. And also, once again, ironic considering Thad betrayed Hunter, Eobard betrayed Hunter, and then Thad could just bestray Eobard, and it would be a wrap up of those three betraying each other.

Though a lot of this is dependent upon how Williamson is using Thad and if he’ll even be a player in this arc which I’m doubting.  I can’t really predict how Williamson will write Thad or feature him. He might just simply be a side character to do battle with Bart and that’s it. A lot of things could happen with Thad’s character and history, or maybe nothing will happen at all that will effect him! We won’t know until the arc is finished! I’ve certainly got my worries, but like I said, we’ll see when we see it.

If you have any other questions, or what my thoughts on anything feel free to ask! I know I rambled here quite a bit.

[jewishaxelwalker]

Axel Walker, as a character, is a real mess. As he was pretty much only written by one person prior to 2011, and that one person was Geoff Johns, it’s no real wonder why. My complaints regarding every book Geoff Johns has ever worked on could fill a book roughly the size of the bible, but that’s neither here nor there right now.

Of all the new villains Johns created during his underwhelming run on the Flash, Axel is the one that’s lasted longest. Hunter Zoloman’s Zoom is a close second, but all bets were off with that guy once Johns was given the go-ahead to bring back Eobard Thawne, who hasn’t gone the hell away since 2009. But despite showing up regularly throughout his Flash run, making an appearance in his Teen Titans run, and just generally existing in Rogues’ Revenge, Blackest Night: The Flash, and the Brightest Day Flash series, Geoff Johns never actually bothered to give this kid a personality. No, really.

Axel has personality traits, most prevalent among them being annoying and young, but seeing as Johns was pushing 30 when he created Axel...the “youth” aspect of the character seemed overly exaggerated. For instance, here’s the panel that gives us the best guess as to how old he is:

“Dropped out of high school a few years ago” is a real shitty timeline. How many years is a few? Did he drop out as a freshman, a junior? Between how damn small he is (DC Encyclopedia cites him as being 5′7″, but I’ll eat my hat if he’s over 5′2″), the rest of the Rogues referring to him as “kid” all the time, and the way he kept being set up as one of Bart’s villains in the short time he was Kid Flash, I feel like we’re supposed to think of Axel as 16 or 17. However, Axel is shown being sent to Iron Heights on multiple occasions. That’s big boy prison, not a juvenile detention facility. So it’s entirely possible he’s 18 or 19. But we will never know.

So okay, back to those character traits. Early on, it was established that in addition to being young and annoying, Axel was also highly inventive, having created a bunch of tricks and gags that James Jesse, his predecessor, hadn’t used. He also utilized modern technology in a way that only someone written by a 30+ year old in 2005 could:

Is this even possible? I know about as much about computers as the next Amish person, that is to say, next to nothing, so I can’t tell you. But it’s possible according to Comic Book Hacking!

Anyway, when he first hit the scene, Axel was working with Blacksmith’s new Rogues. That didn’t last long, and he eventually jumped ship with Mark and Evan, who vouched for him with Len for whatever reason, and then Axel was a true and proper Rogue.

And here’s where it all goes a bit hinky.

During Crossfire (183-188 if you want exact issues), Axel had a glossy sheen of “golly, gee whiz!” about him. He was new to this whole villainy thing, eager to prove himself, and ready and willing to cause some chaos. Chaotic Neutral, if you will. The Identity Crisis tie-in issues (214-217) and Rogue War (220-225) introduced a weird little quirk that hadn’t been present before: sadism, and a need for said sadism to be corrected. 

In 214, Axel obliviously offers to whip up some poison gas to lace the flowers Len wants to send in sympathy to Ralph Dibny. Not knockout gas, or some other harmless gag, poison. We’d already seen that the other Rogues had a habit of insulting Axel in previous issues, but in 216, Len one-punches him to the floor for making fun of Digger when news of his death was reported.

The next panel shows that he is deadass unconscious. 220 gives us another fun panel of weird sadism that comes out of left field:

Now, where did this come from? I like to trace it back to a couple of panels from 188:

-words of advice from Weather Wizard, which are later parroted back in 221:

Again, it has previously been shown that of all the older Rogues, the one Axel is closest to, sees as a sort of mentor even, is Weather Wizard. Which brings me to Rogues’ Revenge.

Final Crisis: Rogues’ Revenge is possibly my least favorite comic of all time. It’s the one that paved the way for the return of Eobard Thawne (my least favorite villain) and killed off Thad Thawne (my absolute favorite villain)...but it was also the place where my favorite version of Axel was born.

Axel’s part in Rogue War ended when James beat the hell out of him, stole his mask and shoes, and tossed him in a dumpster. Between Rogue War and Rogues’ Revenge, Axel showed up in all of one comic, where he murdered a quartet of college students in the Detective Chimp: Helmet of Fate issue:

It’s one of those comics that really doesn’t make a ton of sense out of Axel’s characterization, what little there was to begin with. When we next see Axel in Rogues’ Revenge #1, he’s put together his own little gang. While his Trickster gang dresses like him, Axel is the only one who actually uses tricks, the other guys use guns. They’re disposed of, and Axel is folded back in with the Rogues. After Len beats him up a bit, of course:

But what else is new, right? After a whole rigamarole about the Rogues going to Gambi’s workshop to give their costumes back, but they find him beat all to hell by a group calling themselves the New Rogues, who’d also kidnapped Len’s father. The Rogues find them. There’s a fight. And then, this:

Followed very closely by this:

And quite literally immediately after, this:

And this is it. This is my favorite version of Axel, born from what might be the shittiest comic of all time. My favorite version of Axel is the underutilized “scared rabbit covering it all up with false bravado” version, which we would now see in everything following this issue, up until the New 52. After Rogues’ Revenge, Axel’s speaking panels were cut to practically nothing. He lurked in the background of scenes, helped out, had a one-liner or two, but did Johns ever again attempt to give him any kind of depth? Nope. All his character development from this point on would come from Scott Kolins:

This page baffled me for the longest time, when it came out. Len has just had Mick kill his father for him. Third panel, Axel’s expression is very neutral, not giving away anything. Fifth panel, peeking out from behind Len, his expression borders on worry, but by panel six right next to it, he’s schooled himself back to neutrality. Then we get this page:

“Us”, Axel says. As if he actually did any murdering of his own. That’s why the past sadistic streak and the Detective Chimp issue never sat well with me. Where did these traits spring from? I know I said earlier that the whole “no conscience” thing might be to blame, but it was never consistent. 

Scroll back up. Look at those facial expressions. Kolins might draw Len craggier than a mountain peak, but his Axel is definitely the most expressive. Look at the page with Mark causing faux-Abra Kadabra to explode. Look at that bottom-right panel. You can literally see him being terrified of the people he’s with, finally understanding exactly what they’re capable of, and realizing that he’s in too deep to get out unharmed. But at the same time…he doesn’t want out, because these guys are all Dad now. He idolizes them and he fears them. So he digs deep for the set of balls that got him into Blacksmith’s circuit, and uses the fact that none of the others have really tried to get to know him to his advantage. Bad jokes, ignorance, bratting it up…hiding his fear. After the page above, Axel spends the rest of Rogues’ Revenge making some of the silliest expressions he ever has in a comic when he’s in focus, but out of focus, he’s all frowns and neutral faces. He does end up aiding in Inertia’s murder...somehow

Seriously, what the hell is he shooting at him, a spring? It’s coiled too loosely to choke him, and though the shot of Thad’s corpse shows it still wrapped around his throat, there’s no bruising there like on his face and body.

The next place Axel, or the Rogues for that matter, show up is in Blackest Night: Flash, another Johns disaster. There, he’s the comedic relief from start to finish. He’s not particularly interested in fighting zombies, so his expressions tend to range from a very fake-looking full-face grin to straight up terror:

And of course, the pit. I’ve got a whole other laundry list of ways comics failed Owen Mercer, but that’s not for here. When the horribly out of character Captain Cold confronts the even more horribly out of character Owen about his actions in trying to bring back his father, it’s bad. But is it “copying every line and forehead wrinkle from Mark’s face onto Axel’s face” bad?

Bam. After Blackest Night, the Rogues would show up only once more before Flashpoint, in a couple of issues of the Brightest Day Flash series. Here, he actually has a few panels of dialogue and is actually shown to be doing things for a change. 

One of his only panels worth mentioning, though, is this one from issue 6:

So...if Axel is a millennial, then that means he was born between 1981 and 1997, making him at most 29 and at least 13 back in 2010. Release this kid’s age, DC. The world wants to know.

So. You’d think a character study on a Trickster would end with a bang, but I don’t really think it can. Axel is honestly a pretty weak character, whose goals and motivations are either bland or entirely nonexistent. We never got a real backstory for him other than a few thoughtboxes in the Flash 1/2 issue, we never got to see how he’d blossom under a competent writer pre-New 52, his entire existence seemed to be one of those famous Johns dropped plots. He feels like he should have a bigger role than he does, and is in fact the legacy Rogue with the least number of pre-New 52 appearances. Which is ironic, because he’s the only legacy Rogue that escaped erasure with the rest of the old universe. His few appearances in the New 52 Flash title, the Rebirth Flash title, and non-canon books like Injustice have given him more of a character than all of his time under Johns, and he’s better off for it. Except for the Injustice universe, where he’s dead.

I guess all I can say is, the kid was interesting enough to deserve better, but it took his old universe being wiped out and replaced for him to get it. Bummer.

[dawnofspeed]

Hi everyone, Dawn Mun here! 

It’s late, and I’m really sick, so I won’t be on for long and I’ll try and make this brief. I had to get on the computer to write this up because I wanted to get it right and stalking from my phone this really bugged me so... here I am.

I want to start off by first saying I LOVE BART ALLEN. Don’t get me wrong. I adore him, in all his variations. I adore him, and I love Wally West, and I think Barry Allen is awesome. I love the comics and I love Young Justice cartoon and while I have my issues with the Flash show, I do watch it and used to be totally into it. This post is NOT to bash any of those characters, and if anything what I’m trying to say would ENRICH those character’s stories and the Flash Family in general.

OKAY, now that’s out of the way, moving on.

Ignoring the fact that the Flash Family, particularly in the fandom, and probably because of the way the comics emphasise said above characters, gets smooshed down to Barry, Wally, Bart and if you’re lucky Jay, and Jesse and maybe Irey and Jai, and if you’re even luckier, Max and Jenni... maybe Thad, maybe the OTHER Liberty Belle... it just, in general, seems to neglect a LOT of speedsters. More than anything, it ignores the female speedsters. Jesse, Irey and Jenni are the lucky ones because they sometimes get featured. There’s characters like Dawn Allen and Sela Allen who are directly related to the Flash, Danica Williams who IS a future Flash, Eliza Harmon and Valerie Kameya who are also speedsters like Liberty Belle... and then there’s characters like Meloni Thawne who plays a similar mother-wife-badass role such as Iris and Linda but rarely gets a peep in anywhere. 

Okay, okay, get to the point--

Besides the fact I am a huge feminist and am regularly upset and put off by the lack of representation and content of/for women when compared to the men’s in comics and tv and movies, I also work with kids. Kids have this way of looking at the stuff that they love, like Superheroes, and going ‘this is what I want in my life’. And if all of them only see MEN constantly in POWERFUL COOL ROLES that’s what they’ll think is good and okay. Barry, Wally, Bart. Maybe. Maybe in some instance with ONE girl, like Jesse, or Jenni. That’s it. And if the only one represented IS Jesse then that’s no POC represented at all (unless we’re talking new Wally, thank god DC for keeping new Wally). 

If huge sections of the fandom are discounting the limited femme Flashes we do have then... we’re shifting backwards more than ever. With DC gutting our choice of characters, we the fandom CANNOT neglect our female speedsters. We can’t afford to. WE HAVE to include them, love them, celebrate them. I know, I KNOW you love Wally and Bart and Barry. I do too. But imagine... imagine Bart bonding with his MOM and his AUNT for once, and getting his cousin back! Imagine Barry meeting his kids, and bonding with his daughter. Wally having his female cousin and racing her across the city. Introducing the original Tornado Twins to his OWN KID TORNADO TWINS. Women exist! Women are important! Women are powerful, and strong, and smart, and loving and... all of the things. Let them exist in your spaces, in your stories, in your hopes, in your art. Instead of scrolling through the 1000th story about entirely boy flash fam I wanna see this vibrant, colourful mixture that includes the actual fam. 

Maybe then I wouldn’t see posts so focused on Bart that they completely skip the Dawn and Don and Meloni and are just like “Bart needs to be in the next season of the Flash. Imagine if at the end of this season he shows up from the future like ‘I’m your grandson’.” Like first of all we’ve been there with YJ where he shows up, and yeah it’s awesome but Jenni NEVER does, first POC Female Flash Fam member ok, and Bart’s cousin, with the same sort of background but yeah, cool. Andddddd Bart shows up BEFORE the twins are born. BUT HEY YJ MENTIONS THEM WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN MOST DC STUFF. But yeah, let’s just skip the Tornado Twins altogether. No big deal. We’ll just add ANOTHER male speedster to the show, and neglect all backstory, and also just explain the Thawne thing with yes, not the actual female Thawne who sacrifices everything but her son will explain it for her.

Like I said, I don’t have anything wrong WITH BART. But. For heaven’s sake, his story HAS been told (numerous comics, YJ, AND he was on Smallville). And it would be SO MUCH richer with the twins, and his mom, actually coming along first. 

Okay, I think I’ve gotten this all out now.

PS: bring back Jenni Ognats, Danica Williams, Dawn Allen and all iterations of Liberty Belle. K. Thnx, DC. 

PPS: If Barry Allen can be on DC Superhero Girls show so can Dawn, Jenni & Danica.

PPPS: How come all other big trinity kids get to have their own comics and mantles? let Dawn play with Jon & Damian k? Thnx.

[isfjmel-phleg]

Thad Thawne and Will MacIntyre have no association whatsoever in the comics, but they do remind me of each other in certain ways. Similar personalities. Similar solitary and single-minded approaches to life. Similar facades of superiority to distract from things about themselves that they privately hate. Similar tragic endings that originally left them alone with the consequences of poor choices after almost finding redemption. Similarly brought back by writers who missed the point of their characters, made them simplistically evil, and got them out of the way by freezing them in a living death with no one to pity or mourn them. Similarly characterized by what could have been.

The difference though is the nature of their tragedies.

Thad is tragic because he never had a choice, he was a pawn in someone else's game for so long that when given the opportunity to have agency, he is so entrenched in what they made of him that he can't choose a better way.

Will is tragic because he did have a choice and chose to deny himself his humanity and even when he realizes where he failed, he is so entrenched in the lies he's been telling himself that he continues to choose what ultimately hurts him.

Either way, they are victims of their own pride.

[radioactive-earthshine]

if i were a dc writer, first order of business would be a cassie sandmark solo (and I guess this is more of an artist decision but i'd love her to have short hair again. maybe chop it off at the end of an emotional arc.)

I'd also want to expand more on cissie king-jones's current character, particularly on how her relationship with her superhero identity has grown since her yj days. I personally enjoy the idea of cissie staying away from superheroism, only suiting up when really needed by her friends. maybe i'd explore that through an arrowette miniseries? or i would incorporate it into the aforementioned wonder girl solo, with cissie just being a strong supporting character. and i'd make cissiecassie canon.

i'd write another yj series, working from bendis' team reboot because yj dark crisis is getting fully ignored. i'd bring back anita and greta, maybe even figure out a way to bring back slobo (just bc I miss him..). I kinda love the idea of just establishing most of the team as queer, young avengers style. (konbart canon too 🙏 yj19 feels like it already set them up to be a couple.)

possibly the most difficult-to-execute story i'd love to write would be bringing back thad thawne and giving him a redemption arc. I think there was just so much lost potential there for a really multi-faceted, complex character breaking away from what he was made for. but I also have no idea how in particular I would go about it.

at the end of this, I guess my dc writings would just be a W for blondes and gays

These are things that absolutely need to happen and I agree with all of these points.

Tell me what you would do if you had full creative control at DC with NO editorial push back.

[radioactive-earthshine]

Hi. I was talking with my best friend and we were going over the rogues of Young Justice and who had which person as their common adversary such as Tim with all of Batman's rogues being his and the point of it was that when they were all adults who would be their own personal nemesis? Batman has The Joker clearly, Superman with Lex Luthor, The Flash and Reverse Flash, Wonder Woman and Cheetah etc but what about the YJ crew especially Bart? Who would be Bart's main nemesis when he's an adult?

Did you forget about Thad Thawne?

Thad Thawne is absolutely Bart's main nemesis NOW in current, no matter how much Thad deserves and SHOULD get a redemption arc (which likely will never happen considering Fastest Man Alive is canon again).

I also really am hesitant to say Tim's rogues are just Batman's rogues because he ran into a lot of other people and themes in his own comics on a fair basis that there are other options available. Also it looks like the one responsible for Young Justice Dark Crisis (Mxyzptlk's son, allegedly) has already decided Tim is his nemesis (see Tim Drake's Pride Special).

***Edit*** Mickey was in fact NOT the person who Tim is currently up against in his comics. When this was written, it was assumed they were going to be the same.

King Shark (yes, he's a Superboy character) with Kay Fury as well as Amanda Spence (allegedly dead) are Kon's in his own comics but having them extend into the future with him as an adult is... iffy. His 2011 solo comic had Simon Valentine (his FRIEND) being setup as his Lex Luthor with a parallel narrative as well but meh, I really liked Simon and I just want these heroes to have fucking civilian friends and have their own rogues not just mirror their assumed mentor's.

Bart however is a little more tricky because in his own comics he rarely had reoccurring villains (Thad) that truly wanted to harm him (Thad), and many of them were more Max's adversaries anyway or were guest rogues.

We do have a few however but I do not foresee them as being a problem for Bart when he is older. But they could be brought back for fun.

For fun let's just explore a few interesting people from Bart's run that were presented as villains, see if they are a candidate for future rogue-ness, then I will tell you my own personal pick for his true nemesis that isn't Thad.

White Lightning

The first 'major adversary' we see is White Lightning who has some mild 'pheromone mind control' that allows her to manipulate men just like Poison Ivy, only she has not shown any murderous intentions.

Impulse #80

She shows up early on in his series, and she shows up every now and then and is predominately a thief who uses adolescent boys to assist her in her heists.

Impulse #4

She would make a GREAT current 'rogue' because she's basically a social media influencer. She uses the internet of 1995 to attract potential 'gang members', and she even has her own merch! This would translate VERY WELL for today for a morally gray rogue.

She's FUN, but she's not really a villain so she's out for being Bart's nemesis. She's more like a Robin Hood character than a true crook (a Robin Hood that KEEPS the money).

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 6/10

lmfao white lightning has her own merch but bart doesn't

Evil Eye Eddie/Wilfred Parker (once called "Danny" by his dad)

His first appearance is in Impulse is in issue #27 and he shows up on the regular up until the near end of the series. He's a very well written character that when he first shows up he is a thug and a bully that wants nothing more than to follow in the footsteps of his father, and grandfather (Dr. Morlo) and be a super villain, and a gang member.

As time progresses with him in the series, we see that he does not actually have the disposition to do what he needs to do in order to be that, but he still retains a shitty attitude which makes him more likable. He also has a friendship with Rolly that from everything we see is genuine and he does care about him. One day I'll make a meta post about Eddie because he's fascinating as fuck.

Impulse #47

Evil Eye also finds out on his own who Bart is later and doesn't tell anyone about it so he's not a good candidate for being a rogue of Bart's later. Dr. Morlo couldn't even keep up with being Max's rogue and they instead have a divorced spouse relationship. It would be fun to have him back though. I want him to meet Stephanie Brown.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 1/10

Pocket Pal

A better contender is Pocket Pal who was penned for issue #60 by the legendary Dwayne McDuffie (yes, Milestone's McDuffie. RIP).

His particular abilities were similar to Chester Runk's aka The Chunk in that he had a pocket dimension in which he could put an infinite number of things into. He was slick, angry, and a young thief who could definitely grow up into a regular rogue for Bart to deal with later.

Impulse #60

I could absolutely see him coming back as an adult rogue for Bart to deal with on occasion. There's a lot of writing potential for a character that has a bag of infinite carrying.

Name's gotta change though. I like Supermassive (as in black hole) but I do not write for DC and I likely never will so Pocket Pal it is.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 8/10

Honorable Mention: Shanela

Shanela first shows up in Issue #82 and she and her twin sister Shantay both have the ability to manifest illusions. Shanela is just an A N G R Y teen, and her sister Shantay is seen as the one who is constantly trying to keep her in check.

Impulse #83

Shanela has a great narrative and she deals with a lot of internal teenage negativity and low self esteem. She does not really use her power to physically hurt anyone but she definitely has enough anger and hatred towards her peers to get to that point and probably would have had Bart not intervened. Her weakness it turned out was dogs as she is petrified of them.

She was a fascinating 'villain' and it would be fun to see her and her sister again; whether working together as some sort of hero team, working against each other, or simply being civilian metas.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 5/10 (it's circumstantial)

And now... The person I feel personally strong about being Bart's rogue (other than Thad)...

Bedlam/Matthew Stuart

There's something about a Speedster having an adversary that has infinite power and ability through use of magic that just offers infinite potential when it comes to possible stories. It's terrifying and exciting. When it comes to this particular character however we have established history AND motivation and this character has already mentioned that he HATES Bart (and his friends) and will absolutely given the opportunity wreck his life just out of spite.

Good god don't let him team up with Thad.

Impulse #85

For context here we first meet Matthew in the story that started Young Justice. JLA: World Without Grownups and he is supposed to be a brat even before he comes into his powers.

Now, you can make the argument here that he is justifiably irritated that his father almost did not make it back in time for his 13th birthday, and that his family dynamic is not the best here, and there is probably some toxic dynamic but he's also a moody teen with some anger at the world that helps him along the path of being Bedlam. You can read this scene as him being a brat, or you can read it as him just being a normal kid dealing with loneliness and acting out. Either way, things go bad quick.

He comes into his powers by accident from that clearly stolen archeological artifact his father dug up, someone get Arthur because the Atlantean artifact contains the magical power of Garn Daanuth.

He becomes possessed by this entity Bedlam and immediately changes reality to mirror something he finds fitting; one without grownups where children rule.

Eventually he is apprehended by Tim, Kon and Bart and it is Bart who is key to finally beating him.

Matt remembers Bart very fervently when he shows back up 2 years later without the entity, but with all of his powers roiling through him (TLDR the actual entity was able to be born as a mortal human being and he ditched his magical powers and they went back to Matt).

Impulse #85

Matt to me would be top tier level for an original adversary for Bart specifically considering he targeted Bart (and other members of Young Justice but not the the same extreme as Bart).

He has history, motivation, and a kick ass power that would be nothing short than mayhem any time he showed up.

Now YES he did technically lose all his powers (Bart again, foiled him) and they jumped into Bart's body, but there is no real reason to not have Matt regain the abilities in some way. These are comics, after all.

I feel that in a hypothetical scenario where Bart had to have primary rogue that was not Thad it would be Matt Stuart 100%.

So these are just my own thoughts and Bart certainly dealt with a lot more than just those I have listed but this was still fun to explore and I hope this got you thinking into the subject of hypotheticals and maybe it inspired some fan works.

Thank you for the probing question!

[dementedspeedster]

One Thad mega fan to another, what would your pitch be if you were offered an Inertia solo book?

@spiralcass

//OH MAN   ;   (Retrospective OH MAN cause this got long and ramble-y my bad)

Would you believe I’ve never really thought of a solo book idea for Thad? I kinda like him as support/apart of a side plot. Basically slowly becoming apart of the family through hard work and a clear, but slow shift in his character/ trying to help the Flash Fam despite what they think of him.

Though if Thad did have a solo book I feel like it could center around him possibly needing to time travel in order to fix something/prevent something possibly involving his own family of time traveling speedsters (Eobard, maybe the generations of cobalt blues; there were so many of them)/unwinding whatever plot they have which could also threaten his own existence and maybe Bart’s (idk how, but somehow). Maybe at the end of that Thad comes into contact with the Flash Fam by accident after a mishap with his time traveling, which would be a cliffhanger ending as they recognize him. (Flash Fam still holds some bad blood with Thad so there’s suspicions and hostility toward them which would then lead into the beginning of a new volume/series/whatever), and Thad is sorta unwilling put under their supervision  as the Flash Fam is brought up to speed with what Thad’s been doing (they’ve probably been dealing with an influx of reverse speedsters in the 21st century while Thad’s been time traveling). 

Basically things that I want:

Thad to actually interact with family after coming back a bit more sane, still a bit angry (in general; toward the Allens; toward the Thawnes), and coming to terms he was treated like shit. (But he can’t just go straight to President Thawne because he is technically his “father” and that status must leave some conflicted feelings, strong feelings about how his own father used him, and since he’s his father there’s just some of that lingering power Thawne would have over him as his father figure (albeit a real shitty one).) But I do want this confrontation eventually.

Also I want Thad to question why he wasn’t good enough for his own ‘father’; it’s so shitty I know it’s shitty BUT THE ANGST

OH actually talking to Meloni at some point. I’d also like them to have a bit of complex relationship. Meloni might see him more as Thawne’s son and Thad in turn would see her as an Allen so he’s bitter towards her somewhat cause old behaviors and feelings are hard to change.

I know it’s a favorable opinion that Meloni would treat Thad like another son, but I’ve always been one to view their relationship sorta like siblings with a large age gap between them; also they would definitely shit talk about Thawne because he’s a shitty father and they both know that.

Thad to slowly, and I mean slowly, develop a relationship with the Flash Family through his own actions. They’re not heroic, they definitely start out self motivated, but eventually they shift from this selfish origin. Thad starts to form relationships (AKA Barry (and also Max)), he’s slowly beginning to be treated like he’s family or something close to family 

I’d really like Thad to meet Barry, because I’ve always thought he’s resembled Barry. I’d also like him to be the first of the Flash Fam who really grows to know him. It’s also important cause he’s kinda like the Flash Fam patriarch, but also it would put him sorta in conflict with Iris as the flash fam matriarch and because Thad did kidnap Iris during the Impulse comics and try to hurt Bart back then which she knows of. So Barry and Iris hold differing opinions about Thad. (But I don’t want any sort of big fight over it that would affect their relationship or would think that it alters it somehow it’s just conflicting opinions of Thad).

Barry also seems like he’d be the most impartial of the Flash Fam when it came to dealing with Thad.

I also want Thad and Bart to slowly develop a brotherly relationship; Depending on Bart’s background this could go a few ways.

I want them to be out of uniform and someone is so surprised Bart has a twin or something like that.

Thad’s lie would be that he was living with the maternal side of their family so that’s why no one has ever met him.

…I’m realizing things could get paradoxical if this Thad is the one who killed Bart because would Bart be willing to trust or even talk to Thad if he remembers he killed him.

Also F:FMA was not good characterization of Bart; we don’t need that to be canon in an ideal world.

JENNI OGNATS

I want the entire Flash Fam of course. 

I want them all to meet.

-Vaguely waves everywhere- SO yeah something with all this stuff in it. Basically give me slow/reasonably paced development, the entire flash fam (I mean it i want everyone. Max, Jay, Joan, Jesse, everyone…who’s still alive), and character growth and development