#bc i don't speak chinese at all and people keep assuming i do but never remember that i don't

[kitorin]

I WANNA GET HIS NUMBER

[culiehua]

Jem's ancestral origin

bc @jaimrennnn pointed it out again, here are my thoughts on Jem's maternal ancestry bc it only now occurs to me that the following are not just regular thoughts normal non chinese people have 😭:

Literary review: Jem speaks Mandarin and not Shanghainese, it's assumed he is from the north. But where? Why?

Now this is where it gets interesting:

一 The language(s)

Nothern Chinese dialects include quite a few different dialects; there are over 300 languages in China in total – and most are not mutually intelligible. At all.

(As someone who is also fluent in Mandarin and wouldn't understand a thing in ancient Shanghai... I feel his pain)

Mandarin is the official language in all of China TODAY, however, the Beijing dialect based Mandarin as we know it today did not undergo nationwide codification until the early 20th century.

And it was only in the 1800s that a shift to Beijing based Mandarin happened. Previously, and into the 1800s, Nanjing based Mandarin was the official Standard during the Ming (1368-1644) and part of the Qing dynasty (1644-1911).

While both would be plausible Mandarin varieties that he could have spoken given the time period, what we see Jem use though is the Beijing based version of Mandarin. While Nanjingese is semi-intellegible for speakers of Beijing Mandarin, it is notably different. So you are right: He does not use any other variety in the written text we see, therefore Mandarin being his only Chinese language means he or rather his family are likely not only from Northern China but speak a dialect that, at least in unintonated pinyin form, is exactly the same (note: we are assuming they don't have a notably different one bc dialect speakers are very particular about keeping their dialects alive as they do not really exist in written Chinese).

But there's more! The northern Mandarin dialects (not just Mandarin the official language) may belong to the same language family and some can be vaguely understood amongst each other (that's why it is also common to have instances where people speak with each another in different dialects, each understanding the other but unable to speak the other dialect) but 1) not all provinces above the Yangtze are Mandarin variety dominant: Zhejiang and south Jiangsu for example are predominantly Wu-dialect heavy (think Shanghainese) which are... not understandable as a Mandarin speaker lol while some dialects from Sichuan or Shandong for example may be easier to understand (remember there are many dialects, even from different language families, in each province).

and b) there's also the fact that even Mandarin varieties don't... necessarily understand each other. You can definitely hear the difference in speech even if they aren't different in grammar or vocabulary!

What do we know about Jem tho?

Jem speaks in a very... classic kind of way I suppose? There are no real regional colloquialisms, he sounds very Standard Mandarin (pronunciation not evaluable) but he does use some literary words that I'd never use in my life (separate post on that) which makes his Mandarin very textbook elegant. He doesn't have the classic /r/ marker at the end that many northeners have either. He doesn't have the Dongbei Mandarin accent either, the Xiajing dialect is something else, etc etc.

He does use the the Wade-Giles system of romanization (based on the Beijing dialect, was the anglophone system of transcription in the 20th century) when speaking English though (I Ching, Kwan Yin) which amuses (and...confuses) me bc he speaks Chinese in perfect Hanyu pinyin? So I'd say he englishifies Chinese terms when speaking English.

(There's also the problem that he was young when he lost contact to the language environment and that he had two L1s growing up resulting in crosslinguistic interference anyway. Mixed linguistic backgrounds do often result in the development of a "clearer" accent, or lack therof...)

二 The Ke family name

I've talked about it before, but Chinese family names have meaning. In the past last names were location bound, i.e. you'd have wider clan names for all the people from one region (which is what put Ke on the top 100 most common last names list in the first place. Yes that list exists). So you can look up where these names originate from or rather where they are common.

So far, I'd narrow the name origin down to these places: Shandong and Hubei (Wu dialectal regions excluded bc we assume he has no other background dialect; nomadic tribes also excluded bc traces unclear).

Why they would make sense:

Hubei the hometown of bronze and birthplace of Chinese modern industry for Steel works (haha... "they shatter even the strength of iron or of bronze". But that was after Jem). It's basically in the heart of China, a lot of cultural history, and the weather is very hot (they are called one of the three furnaces...) it's said that people there are louder and easier riled up bc of the weather. But the Hubei dialect does sound pretty different from the Standard. So there's that.

Shandong is famous for being a cultural and religious center for Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism (Hometown of Confucius!!) ... and also for having the tallest people in the country. The people here are also very bold and straightforward but also very hospitable with a generally good reputation, the common hero personality. It is also an agricultural center (ahem, Ke ≈ tree, remember). Character wise, it fits. There are a lot of Shandong people who moved to Beijing a long time ago since it's very close.

Given that neither Jem nor Wenyu seem like hot-headed people, but rather practical, calm, honest and are believers of buddhism and chinese philosophy (reincarnation wheel + with how often Jem refers to that thousands years old book you'd believe he has it printed behind his eyelids...), I'm rather inclined to guess their ancestors are from Shandong originally, i.e. the chill ones. (Yes you cannot generalize people but we have nothing on them 😭). However, I believe they have lived in Beijing for generations.

What is also interesting is that the average victorian Englishman stood at 167cm. As of now, the English average height is 175±6(m) and 162(w). In Shandong, the average height now is 175(m) and 169(w). But in the Qing dynasty the average northern man was this tall already. So I'd go on the taller spectrum for the nephilim and say Wenyu, as a northerner, is atleast 170. Jem is considered tall, somewhere between 178 and 180cm. Calculating this into the height, Jonah is max. 178cm. Since the Carstairs weren't tiny either, this fits. (Shandong people are the tallest people in China, followed by Beijing people. Tall girl Wenyu supremacy!!). I think Shadowhunters are taller bc of exercise that's why you have Will at the same height but Jem could definitely not do as much physically, having to rely more on efficiency and genes so I believe he has tall!genes but he definitely did not get that primarily from the victorians.

三 Wenyu's pre-Shanghai residence

From what we also know, the Ke family ran the Beijing Institute as well (Jia, née Ke, and her hubby). It wouldn't be far fetched to say that they've been running it since way back. After all, the Ke's are also still in charge of Shanghai and the Herondale's ran London well into the 1990s.

What we also know is that Jem's mom, Wenyu, was sent as an ambassador of the nephilim to the emperor for a meeting at the Yuanming Yuan, burned down around a decade and a half prior to Jem mentioning it, so the visit occured before Jem could ever remember it.

Historically, from mundane history, we know this: Emperor Xianfeng ruled from 1850-61, the Garden was burned down by Europeans in 1860 during the 2nd Opium War.

Wenyu was born in 1839, so she probably went there as a late teenager. She had Jem at 21 and also moved to Shanghai with Jonah years later. Now why would China's nephilim send some random teenage girl to Beijing to talk to the ruler? Why would they send her from perhaps angel knows where thousand miles away? Unless... she was sent from the Beijing Institute? Who knows. Chaos breeds demons. (It's also odd that Cassie changed the timeline to this happening when Jem was 2 or 3. Was this supposed to mean that he might have witnessed it? Idk).

Beijing was the capital, and if the nephilim, as a race, would send an ambassador, it would make the most sense to send one from the local institute. Jem did not grow up learning another local differing variety either, leading me to believe both Wenyu and Jem were born in Beijing and learned court Mandarin.

四 Conclusion

I believe that Jem's maternal family originates from the Shandong/Beijing area but lived in Beijing for centuries before taking over Shanghai too, since they are not shown to know or speak any other distinctive dialect and the Shandong dialect, due to it's close similarity to the Standard variety, could have lost it's accent over time there with the surrounding Beijing dialect, the court dialect and their complete mutual intelligibility. Clan origin, height and personality also hint at this, as well as Wenyu's travel log. Jem's Chinese is very standard and does not deviate; he seems sophisticated and has a clear pronunciation. Beijing born and raised!