#bc fuck Marie and Hank and gods know how many other people she got killed or died bc of her or what not

[firebirdsdaughter]

I'm gonna say it…

… Wish they'd just let Wincroft at Adalind.

[loplainlointhemorning]

You don't have to answer this if you don't want to but what's up with the Courtney Love controversy? Why are people accusing her of manipulation or whatever? I'm totally new to this discussion

hey darling!! no worries, I love discussing Kurt & Court bc theyre my surrogate parents and they emotionally raised me when I had a difficult relationship w my Mom and Dad, plus I’m named after Kurt and he’s part of the reason I realized my ~gender~, so needless to say I have a surplus of information on them. Plus their music fucks. anyways, this is gonna be a masterpost-

my credentials(sources I have taken my information and formed my opinion on Kurt & Court’s relationship from if u need to look into them):

-Heavier Than Heaven(Book by Charles Cross, authorized by Kurt’s estate. Charles Cross is a well known grunge/music historian and has literally devoted his life to researching and writing rockstar biographies, including several on Nirvana. One of my favorite books ever.)

- Montage Of Heck(Documentary on Kurt’s life. Produced by his daughter, Frances. I have some heavy criticisms of this film and of the interviews in it, but it does have some reflections on Kurt and Courtney’s relationship that I think are important.)

- Hit So Hard(a documentary on Hole’s drummer, Patty Schemel. Minor discussions of Kurt and Kurt and Courtney.)

- Verse Chorus Verse(Fan-made documentary series on Kurt’s life, widely regarded by Nirvana fans the most in depth play-by-play biography that exists- and it’s free on YouTube, which is lit.)

sources I don’t pull from, but many younger Nirvana fans do(the people who buy into the conspiracies generally):

Kurt and Courtney- A documentary made in the late 90’s under the guise of biography, but is actually about the conspiracy theory that Courtney killed Kurt. I saw it when I was a new fan and I literally laughed out loud from how apeshit it was.

Soaked In Bleach- ‘Biopic’ about Courtney killing Kurt. I haven’t seen it but straight men who think Courtney is ugly take it more seriously than the Bible. Very little truth ever goes into these theories, besides maybe names and dates.

Anything Hank Harrison(Courtney’s father) has to say- He wrote a book on the subject. He also gave her acid and lost custody of her when she was three years old. He’s a shit parent and I doubt he’s actually seen his daughter since the 80’s.

Anything Buzz Osborne(Kurt’s friend, singer for the Melvins, a band Kurt looked up to in Montesano) says- I think Buzz’s opinion is taken way too seriously by a lot of the fan base, I read an interview of his criticizing Montage Of Heck because Kurt ‘didn’t really have a stomach disease’ and was just lying about it to get high, and also about how he hated having to see Courtney naked, and made a good long point about how disgusting her body is. IOn top of all that(none of which really has to do with critiquing the film...?), he mocked Kurt and called him a loser for committing suicide. I don’t care what your opinion on his stomach, his wife, or his music is, that shit is callous and idiotic, but totally reflective of the 70’s and 80’s mentality regarding the mentally ill. He’s part of the legion of pretentious punk dudes who *kind of* knew Kurt, who think Courtney’s the one who ‘corrupted’ him, which brings me around to answering your question.

So, there’s this idea regarding Kurt and Courtney’s relationship, which is pretty similar to the one surrounding Sid and Nancy’s(or at least used to.) Courtney is the whiny, annoying, petulant bitch who attached herself to the first trophy she could find, and through her terrible manipulative personality kept him with her and kept him from getting better. In this mode of thinking, She’s also the person who ‘started’ him on drugs, and in a few people’s eyes, the person who ‘forced’ him to have Frances.

The reality of the situation, as I see it, as someone who’s gone to pretty decent lengths to inform themselves on the subject, is that Kurt and Courtney’s relationship was toxic: But the toxicity was mutual. This doesn’t mean they were a “problematic” couple, or that they were abusing each other, or even that either one of them was ‘evil’, it means that they fell deeply in love as young trauma survivors with substance abuse issues and huge ambitions. That’s a lot to put on any relationship and it’s a lot to talk about, so I’m gonna split this into categories of complaints that you’ll hear pretty routinely as a new Nirvana/Hole fan.

1. “She got him into drugs!”

Courtney started on heroin in the late 80’s in L.A., when she was still playing with Sugar Baby Doll(her band with Jennifer Finch and Kat Bjelland). Kurt, as said in Heavier Than Heaven, tried heroin for the first time around 1988-1989(I don’t remember exactly.) At the time, he was still living with(though I don’t believe they were still dating) Tracy Marander. Because he was destitute, he didn’t have enough money to start forming an actual habit until Nevermind started gaining speed, and by the time he and Courtney started dating(they met a couple of times and phoned a couple of times before cementing a relationship) he had been taking it for a while. That’s the thing I think people look over when it comes to Kurt- He was embarrassed about his addiction and he hated the physical side effects, but he loved heroin.

Courtney says in Montage Of Heck that she had both tried and kicked heroin by the time she met Kurt, but I think the Heavier Than Heaven description is probably more accurate: That she did heroin socially, and her addiction worsened after the two of them began living together because Kurt was(in her own words) ‘obsessed with oblivion.’ She also said in Montage Of Heck that his dream was to ‘Get to three million dollars and become a junkie.’ She’s stated several times that her drug problems came out of a need for ‘comfort’, and Kurt was into getting so fucked he couldn’t do anything else(also confirmed by his friend, Dylan Carlson, who was also into heroin and did it with him often.)

On top of that, Courtney was the one who orchestrated interventions for Kurt, went through the process of reviving him when he’d overdosed, and broke his syringes/scared off his dealers to try and keep drugs away from him as much as possible. At one point, she even made a rule that no drugs were to be done in the house- So he started renting motel rooms and doing them there. It was she who was the head of his final intervention before he went missing.

If anything, Courtney is the person who tried her hardest to keep drugs away from both of them. Considering how much people still talk about her doing heroin while pregnant(which occurred very early on before she was aware of her condition), Kurt is the person who struggled the most to stay off drugs during her pregnancy and after Frances’ birth, even going so far as to hide in the bathroom from her while she was struggling with morning sickness so she wouldn’t know he was getting high.

2. “She manipulated him into dating her/marrying her!”

Here’s the thing about Courtney; She is an enigmatic, entertaining, talented, maternal individual. Here’s the thing about Kurt; He’s a shy, quiet, non-confrontational guy with mommy issues. There’s been a lot of discussion on how Courtney was ‘obsessed’ with Kurt, and how she wouldn’t rest until she pinned him down: That’s untrue, or at least it reads less like crazy-bitch-steals-rock-god and more like cute-singer-has-crush-on-fellow-cute-singer. She was really into him, but when she met him she was still dating Billy Corgan, which deterred her from pursuing him until that relationship(basically) dissolved. When Kurt met her, he had just gotten out of a relationship with Tobi Vail, which most likely fell apart because she refused to be what Tracy Marander had been for him. She wasn’t interested in caring for him and she wasn’t interested in a full-time monogamous relationship. She was working too hard at her own career and was way too involved in the burgeoning riot grrrl movement to worry about looking after Kurt Cobain. That just wasn’t going to work for him.

Kurt was a big believer in the nuclear family model, he was very monogamous, and besides that he lacked the ability to physically take care of himself. If he wasn’t living with a partner who would clean up the house and remind him to wash his hair, it just didn’t happen. He was chronically ill, depressed, and he’d spent most of his adolescence AWOL from anyone who would actually raise him, so Tobi’s rejection deeply hurt him for a number of reasons- While Courtney, the opposite of Tobi in a few key ways, was exactly what he wanted. On top of looking like the archetypical punk girl, “I was attracted to her because she looked like Nancy Spungen,” she had a maternal streak (In Montage Of Heck, when he’s found sitting beside her while she cuts his hair, and, typical for people living with Kurt, mentions that she cleans the house because ‘nobody else fuckin does.’) Early on in their relationship, Kurt had a meltdown and begged Courtney to come to his apartment. She did, and looked after him the rest of the night, a pattern which would become common for them, and was stated by her half sister to be the ‘original strain on the relationship.’

Besides her mothering elements, Courtney was brassy and loud, and her presence allowed him to be less introverted and freer with himself. She was an ambitious young musician who shared a similar childhood to him, and had the same yearning for a safe home life that he did. She was well-read and artistic, and introduced him to the literary side of music creation, which he hadn’t explored yet. After spending a night on the phone with her, he went around telling everybody she was ‘the coolest girl in the world,’ and broke off another burgeoning relationship with Mary Lou Lord on live TV after spending the night with her. The famous quote, “Courtney Love is the best fuck in the world.” is in fact real. And yeah, he could’ve handled that one better.

The attraction was mutual, and I find it hard to believe that Kurt was ever forced into anything romantic with her based on how well she suited his tastes.

3. “She used him for his fame/money!”

As stated above, Courtney was attracted to Kurt before Nevermind was even recorded, and if she wanted to marry a famous dude right out the gate, at the time they met there were plenty of people who were way more famous than Kurt. In Heavier Than Heaven she mentions really liking their song “Dive,” and later in life she mentioned hearing “Sliver” and being impressed with Kurt’s writing abilities. Both of those songs were released a solid two years before Nevermind. She was interested in Kurt because he was cute and talented and she was savvy in the music scene, meaning that she kept up with underground bands.

Now, a point of contention between Kurt & Courtney was their different attitudes towards fame. That is entirely true. Courtney wanted to be famous, enjoyed celebrity, loved attention, and could handle touring, press, and the craziness of success. She was very charismatic, very physically strong, and let’s face it, definitely an attention whore. Kurt liked being praised, he liked being successful, and he definitely had a thing for attention- But he hated pressure, he had inferiority issues, he didn’t know how to handle his life being pried into all the time, and he wasn’t strong enough to do massive tours. Courtney just didn’t understand that, which is pretty common if someone doesn’t share your same mental illness/physical illness: Touring hurt Kurt’s stomach, it worsened his anxiety and emotional instability, it wore his body out, it didn’t agree with him. He loved playing live but couldn’t handle the mania or the travelling, meaning he didn’t mind blowing off huge tours that would bring in loads of money. Courtney, who did feel envious and intimidated regarding his success, would get angry at him for that- She didn’t want him to blow off massive paychecks and press coverage because it’s not what she would’ve done. I definitely side with Kurt on this, nothing is more frightening and frustrating than people trying to force you to do things you can’t handle health-wise. Courtney, being naturally business-oriented, was also aware of how things appeared to the public, and definitely cared about their image more than Kurt did- One of their fights revolved around her nagging him about how important the “Heart-Shaped Box” music video would be for him, and how he should look good. He reacted by stubbing out a cigarette on his forehead and saying, “Do I look fucking good enough for you now?”

So yeah, Courtney, like a lot of people in Kurt’s life, was all about furthering his career and success. A lot of people read that as her being money-hungry or manipulative, in my opinion it’s just a natural response from a person who’s spent their whole life trying to be a success and wouldn’t really get there until 1994. I think some of it was envy and I think some of it was her using him a little vicariously, neither of which are healthy but neither of which are malicious, either. She wanted to be a rockstar, she was ready to be a rockstar, she wasn’t; He thought he’d wanted to be a rockstar, he didn’t really want to, he was.

4. “She emotionally abused him!”

I hate to say this because I love Kurt so much but, as someone who’s been through a codependent relationship where they were bailing water out of a sinking boat, Kurt’s behavior throughout their marriage set off way more red flags for me than Courtney’s did. I don’t think he was actually abusive, but I do think he was a little too underdeveloped and unresolved to be married to someone. He had to grow up slower than everyone else because he missed out on having concrete mature influences, which Courtney did as well, and like I said earlier I think a lot of their problems came through a lack of adult communication skills. Both of them were really jealous people: Courtney couldn’t stand Kurt talking about Mary Lou Lord or Tobi Vail, Kurt was completely convinced that Courtney was cheating on him with Billy Corgan(even going so far as to talk to their lawyer about a divorce shortly before he died.) This was the catalyst for a lot of mind games and unnecessary drama, especially coming from Kurt.

Kurt couldn’t handle conflict. He was really passive aggressive, and would do things to purposely piss Courtney off or communicate to her that he was displeased. While she was trying to stay clean he would declare that he was going to do drugs in the apartment, when she started talking to a psychic to help her with her problems he mocked her and put her down, when she staged his final intervention his entire argument against rehab was that she was just as ‘fucked up’ as he was(she had already agreed to go into rehab, though whether he was aware of this or not I’m not sure.) He made his first suicide attempt by overdosing on Rohypnol on their wedding anniversary because she took some pills and fell asleep and he decided that meant she wasn’t interested in him anymore. I’m not arguing that that’s an irrational response to your partner getting stoned and falling asleep, especially when he’d apparently set the night up to be as romantic as possible, but the overdose put him in a coma and sent Courtney into hysterics.

Her mental health began to decline due to paranoia that he’d end up dead, and her weight dropped due to the added stress. As someone who’s been through a pretty similar situation to that and exhibited the same symptoms, I can tell you that it is never okay to use a suicide attempt to deal with a perceived injustice from your partner. By this time, Kurt was facing either getting clean or dying, and his behavior was very depressed and erratic, so there are explanations for the way he was acting and I don’t think he was trying to manipulate her with a threat. Despite my understanding of that, there is nothing more exhausting than being the caretaker of someone who is hellbent on never getting better. I can’t imagine being the caretaker of someone who won’t stop until they’re dead, and I do think at that point it would’ve been better for them to separate.

But that isn’t to say Courtney wasn’t toxic herself, I’m not trying to paint a wholly negative image of Kurt here. I’m merely trying to stand in the way of Nirvana fanboys who have no grasp on the more sickly sides of his personality, and give Court a bit of a break. Definitely, she struggled with her jealousy: As stated, she never wanted his ex girlfriends mentioned around her and would tear them apart if they were. She was ambitious and career driven, which eroded a lot of her platonic relationships/working relationships as well her marriage to Kurt. She was one of the people who was pushing him to recover in time to play Lollapalooza, and she was one of the people who pushed him into his last stunted tour before his death. She weaponized his relationship with Frances in ways that I and most people agree are gross: She told him he should be playing massive gigs to support his daughter(though their medical and legal bills were big they were hardly poverty stricken), and admitted in an interview later that she called him in rehab once to tell him he’d dropped Frances on her head(She mentioned during this that Frances was wearing a furry hood, and that he didn’t hurt her. In my opinion he was doing his best by even trying rehab again, and that he was already so worried that he was a terrible father that it was just cruel to make him feel worse.)

She has a tendency to be self-obsessed, and to put her own self interest before people she cares about, even if she regrets it later. She struggles herself with mental illness and addiction, both of which tend to give a person poor judgment regarding the people they care about.

Once again, Courtney and Kurt weren’t a healthy couple, but it wasn’t because they were evil or abusive towards one another. They cared for each other deeply, they had a very pure devotion. Underlying all this nastiness were two people who prayed together, wrote together, fantasized about a Valentine’s Day wedding, and faxed each other R-rated love letters like modern versions of James Joyce and Nora Barnacle. During one of his more successful stints in rehab, Kurt wrote Courtney love letters every night(though he did decorate them with blood, wax, and semen.)

They had some serious therapy they needed to attend, the both of them. But 90% of these demonizations of Courtney are either untrue or blown out of proportion.