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kedreeva · 2 years ago

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#wow now i hate nancy even more like what an overly critical bitch#it's not even bad jfc#wtf was her point other than stomping down on steve and constantly saying how stupid he is#god i hate that cheating bitch who thinks she's so much better and smarter than everyone#stranger things (via @captaincoffeegirl515)

So I get you're mad, but also, this isn't cool. Hating on characters in tags of posts that you didn't make isn't cool. Hating on Nancy isn't cool, either. Fandom isn't and shouldn't be about hate. If fandom is making you angry enough to spew vitriol like this, you may need to step back and take a breather.

If you actually watch the scene this is about, she isn't calling Steve stupid. She doesn't make fun of him, she doesn't even tell him it's bad. He assumes, from her face as she reads, that she thinks it's bad, that she thinks he's bad at writing. Even if he was (which that essay argues he isn't, and I don't think he is), and even if she did (which I don't think she does), she does not say so. In fact she's only encouraging wrt to the paper itself.

Before Nancy even says anything at all, Steve says "It's crap, I know" and Nancy's immediate reaction is to say "No, it's not crap!" Steve then insists "It's not good," and Nancy's response is an affectionate smile and "It's going to be! It just needs some reorganizing." She's not even talking about editing the writing itself or the concepts! She gently asks if she can mark on his paper - respecting that he might not want her to help that directly even after he's clearly asked her to look at it, which is loads better than some commenters I've seen on AO3 these days - and he agrees.

And the thing is? She's being kind about the editing she does do! Literally the first thing she does is tell him she sees the metaphor he's using (acknowledging that she knows he understands metaphor enough to create his own from scratch) and tells him it's a great metaphor. When she does point out something that needs addressing, she doesn't tell him "you did this wrong" she tells him "I don't see how they're connected." Do you know what that is? That's straight up gentle help. That's "you have connected these, I am not saying they are not connected, I am just saying I don't see the connection." I don't do a lot of editing but I've had a lot of editing done at me, and this language is so kind. It does not invalidate the thing the writer is trying to do, it just tells them that if they want to make that point, they have to elaborate to make it clearer to people who aren't inside their head with them. That's a perfectly valid critique and she is giving it to him very softly.

He then explains the point and she turns back to the paper to start rereading when he interrupts to ask if he should start from scratch and she immediately tells him no. She asks about the deadline, he tells her it's tomorrow (for early acceptance, which means Steve is trying to get this in early but also that he's waited until the last second for that), and then he asks if she can come over and help him with it (which a) is him forgetting they already have plans and b) is asking her to give up her plans to do work with him on short notice when he probably had time before this he could have asked. I say this to make it clear that her reaction isn't out of the blue or unjustified).

Nancy, who is still torn up over her best friend being brutally murdered on her watch while she was right there after brushing Barb off, and who still feels horribly guilty about having to lie to Barb's parents about it all, says no, remember they have dinner with Barb's parents that they already bailed on last week- ie, Nancy doesn't want to brush off Barb's parents again when brushing off Barb is what got Barb killed. She even tells Steve "You don't have to go" and suggests he work on the paper instead, giving him an easy out. And he grabs the paper and crumples it and does the thing that raises my hackles saying what's the point and acting like trying won't matter and he may as well give up on it because it wasn't instantly perfect the first time.

The point of contention in this scene is NOT that Nancy is telling him he's stupid, it's NOT that she thinks his paper is crap. The point of contention is that Steve desperately wants life to move forward away from the terrible thing that happened to them, and Nancy cannot walk away from the past that left her so damaged. He wants to focus on a paper to get him into a college (I like to think it's the one she wants to go to, so they can stay together, but that's just a theory), and she wants to go wallow in a sad dinner with the grieving parents of her dead best friend. That is the argument. It has nothing to do with his paper except that the paper is a device to show he's trying to move forward and the dinner is showing that she's stuck in the past.

This also isn't Nancy thinking she's better or smarter than anyone. This is Steve being faced with having to care about schoolwork because for maybe the first time in his life the result of his written work matters to him and he's very easily frustrated by not being immediately successful, and Nancy being so wrecked by the trauma she went through that she's barely keeping her own head above water, such that she cannot help him the way he needs despite wanting to. This isn't anyone treating anyone badly out of malice or being a bad person; this is incompatibility rearing its head and getting ready to bare its teeth. This is their trauma responses butting heads. This is the first whisper of how much they don't and can't fit right now. It is the first sign that they aren't going to stay together.

I don't doubt that they love each other. It's not even a question to me. But despite the idea sold to so many people in story and song, love isn't enough. It can't be the only thing. You can love someone to the moon and back but if you don't fit, you don't fit- and trying to carve yourself into the right shape will do far more harm than good. And that's what we'll see them realize, later, and that's why they split apart. Not malice, not meanness, not even apathy. They care so much in opposite directions that they're liable to tear each other apart trying to stay together, and instead of forcing it to break them the way he did in season 1, Steve will end up letting go this time. And personally, I think that's an awesome display of character growth.

#stranger things #nancy wheeler #steve harrington #wank for ts #stranger things meta #and I just want to say that like #if you think you love steve but you hate nancy this much #you don't love steve #I absolutely don't want them to get together for a lot of reasons #but he loves her still #and she loves him still #and that should matter #it should matter as much as steve and robin's love matters #because there's something deep there #and romance isn't the only outlet #I would take the intimate knowledge that someone would kill for me #over romance any day #anyway we don't hate on nancy in this house #I don't want hate anywhere near me #they're traumatized teenagers dealing with things no one should ever have to deal with #and also they are characters victim to plot devices #and we're gonna respect both #also adding this: carving themselves into shape is bad #growing to fit together... that's the good shit #especially if how they fit later isn't how they expected #but is even better

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again-please · 1 year ago

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20 questions for fic writers!

tagged by @septemberskye c:

YOU go ahead and do this if you want! I tag THEE. go unto the tag and prosper.

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

just the five!

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

164,059. neat!

3. What fandoms do you write for?

actively just BG3. in the past, Star Wars, and a couple of extremely random, disparate things exclusive to my desktop

4. What are your top five fics by kudos?

lmao I only HAVE five but A Little Further has the crown!

5. Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

oh god, I'm sorry, I do reply to a few here and there especially when I see direct questions for me, but honestly I just feel so awkward bc all I can think to say is "thank you!" with varying numbers of exclamation points. and I am extremely blessed in that recently a lot tend to come at once and I feel terrible that I don't have the brain capacity to give everyone a proper reply

6. What's the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

of the fics I HAVE ended (slides down in chair), I don't think any of them are angsty! I will do some bittersweetness, but honestly, I like a generally happy ending. I like to include angst, but resolve it - even if the resolution is in a next part in a series

7. What's the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

I guess that'd have to be find a thread to pull, and we can watch it unravel. takes place post victory against the First Order (in a pre-TLJ AU setting) so everything being resolved is just FEELINGS (and we all know how we resolve FEELINGS in this house)

8. Do you get hate on fics?

I did actually get I think literally my first purely vitriolic comment the other day (again, I am DEEPLY fortunate) but honestly it didn't sound like they even read the fic it was left on? I guess I was just overdue for the experience lmao

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

yes ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) but uhhhh what kind...I'm not sure how I'd categorize it? I guess my aim is for it always to be predominantly romantic, but I will go where the wind takes me in a particular scene

10. Do you write crossovers? What's the craziest one you've written?

nope!

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

I don't think so?

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

yes, just one! I wish I could find it but someone translated find a thread to pull, and we can watch it unravel.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

I haven't! and unfortunately I would not wish me as a writing partner on my worst enemy lmao, I'm simply way too slow

14. What's your all-time favorite ship?

it's always hard to see beyond the current obsession, but reylo and spuffy are soooo dear to me

15. What's the WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

I feel particularly bad about survival season because I was in the home stretch, but man, when the inspiration dies it really dies

16. What are your writing strengths?

I want to say/dialogue banter, especially big group scenes, because that's when it really feels FUN for me and I accidentally go into a trance and do 1700 words of just conversation

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

other than being sloooooooooooow (700 words is a GREAT full day of writing for me), I cannot stick to an outline for the goddamn life of me. I really try and DO outline/summarize future chapters, but in the midst of a chapter suddenly something else will grab hold of me and I realize I actually need to write the complete opposite thing happening

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language for a fic?

oh I'm not remotely up to that task

19. First fandom you wrote for?

babes, it was Teen Titans. and NATURALLY I had an OC that joined the team and whom I (gasp) also freely used in half-baked X-Men stories. 10-year-old me had zero concept of the Marvel/DC divide and honestly I was happier for it

20. Favorite fic you've ever written?

I think A Little Further. that one kind of gave me my confidence back and in my head it's permanently associated with that "oh god why am I so obsessed with this FICTIONAL MAN" energy that gets you through the tough times

#tag games #adventures in writing #ty for the tag!!

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thephantomcasebook · 2 years ago

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Wo his this Elio guy😂

Boy, do I have a story for you, Nonny ...

So, Elio and his wife Linda run Westeros.Org which, I believe, was the first fansite for ASoIaF - dedicated to keeping the lore. It was basically a Wiki for ASoIaF before Wiki was invented.

Eventually, GRRM was having trouble keeping all the lore straight in his head, so he basically hired Elio and Linda to keep track of it for him in the late-90's, I think. He would get somewhere in the book and he would call or e-mail them with a question and they'd look it up for him.

Eventually Westeros.Org became the unoffical site for the entire series. And ... Elio and Linda started acting more and more like not only gate keepers, but police, of the fandom, believing what they say and decree is law in fan spaces, and that anything outside of it is not true fandom. They were the judges of what was "Legitimate". Sort of like those "The Tolkien Society" cock-suckers for the Tolkien fandom.

When I joined the fandom in late 2009, they weren't very popular with fans of the books - pre-tv show. The place to be if you were a GRRM fan was the forums of Ice and Fire which was run by Elio & Linda and they constantly micro-managed and looked over the shoulders of everyone and everything going on there.

An example:

So someone starts a thread with a fan theory. It's outlandish but fun. People start adding to it, giving evidence, restructuring it so that it fit better. Then Elio or Linda - usually Linda - would come in and dump a big ice water bucket on everyone's fun, because, she thinks that the theory is ridiculous and not in the spirit of the series or the lore. People tell her that she's wrong and usually and successfully tell her to pound dirt - cause Linda couldn't debate worth shit.

That's when Elio comes along. Now, for context, go back to that Reddit post and read his response to the post they put up of my ask. Elio would find one inconstancy or mistake of lore in the theory and hyper focus on it. His stance being that because the people crafting the theory got one thing wrong that the entire thing was illegitimate. It didn't matter if everything else fit or that the people arguing with him was 99% right about every thing. He would take that one flaw and build an entire strawman argument around it while constantly claiming "Well, George said this!" Or "George told me this" ... shit that no one could quantify.

So, basically, the people on the theory thread was like "Whatever the fuck, dude, we're just having fun. Go away."

And that's when usually Linda locked or deleted the thread.

So, book readers started getting fucking tired of the teacher's pet, prefect, mentality of them.

However, when "Game of Thrones" started to hit big, they increased their standing as sort of the "Keepers of the Flame" of the fandom. Suddenly they were on podcasts and doing interviews for major publications. They also became gate keepers of knowledge for casual fans and new readers. Everyone fascinated with this Trans-Atlantic couple and their story about how they started off with this little fansite in the mid-late 90's and now were lore keepers for a world wide phenomenon!

Then, they flushed it all down the toilet.

So, around the time that "Game of Thrones" is hitting, fanfiction for the series is fucking everywhere. I think GOT fanfiction at one point over took "Harry Potter" in popularity. So, Linda writes an essay that gets picked by a publication basically saying that Fanfiction isn't just terrible for story telling, but that its basically fucking evil. I believe she refers to it as "Painting over the Mona Lisa" and is just really vitriolic toward all fanfiction writers in general. Of course, as everyone knows, GRRM hates fanfiction, especially fanfiction of his own characters.

There was a huge black lash to Linda's article/essay from not only fans but from other authors. Neil Gaiman then pens a counter/response to Linda's essay stating that not only is fanfiction important to Western Literature, but its is the very bedrock of human storytelling. That creation comes from imitation. And he defends fanfiction writers and their right to create new stories from the genius of other's creativity because that's what humans have always done.

Now, Elio and Linda look like douche bags in front of the entire world.

Then, the final nail in the coffin, comes when they race swapped Xaro Xhoan Daxos with Nonso Anozie - Which is a great character actor that I love in almost everything he's in. She basically condemned it, said that D&D were pissing on GRRM's legacy and she basically got catty with a bunch of blue haired wildebeests. And because she and Elio elevated themselves so highly in the public eye, they got cancelled before getting cancelled was a thing. They basically got labeled racists and got knocked off their pedestal.

Which is a shame, cause, in general, I agree with her about race swaps being inherently racist tokenism. But if they were gonna be cancelled, there is better shit to get them on than the usual leftist trash accusations.

So, GRRM, quietly, retired them from the spotlight - and public association. And by that point the fandom for ASoIaF/GOT was so massive that they couldn't control it, even if they wanted too. And they both kind of faded away.

However, recently, they tried to make a come back with "Rise of the Dragon" which was an art book that told an illustrated history of the "Conquest" and "Dance" that was supposed to tie into "House of the Dragon".

However, they were immediately met with hostility from everyone for either the Daxos incident, or their years of unpleasantness as gate keepers. Also, "Rise of the Dragon" was incredibly inconsistent and conflicting with "Fire & Blood" and the art for it was absolutely abysmal. It and them were panned endlessly. And there was no great rush to buy it and the book came and went with very little fanfare.

Now, my boy, Elio is patroling ASoIaf Reddit groups cause I'm guessing "A Forum of Ice and Fire" is pretty dead. And he's still trying to police the fandom, even now.

The lesson hear, Cats, is to have fun and a sense of humor with the stuff you like ... and don't be a fucking Percy prefect about fan stuff.

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empyllon · 4 months ago

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"So maybe don't write that story"

cw for mentions of abuse

That's the advice Princess Carolyn gives to Diane when she faces writers block.

I've been rewatching BoJack once again to process. Some days I catch myself missing the past, but most are just days. It's like any other day moving forward, just without him.

I felt like I spent my past much like Pickles, wondering if I could trust my Mr Peanutbutter, but I peeled away the facade and found someone more like Horseman behind the layers. Someone cruel and spiteful.

I decided I didn't want to continue writing a story on uncertainty and lies. And I didn't feel the need to dig deeper for proof in the shallow grave of remains. Some cases are based on circumstantial evidence to the point they conclude, or as the saying goes: "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, sounds like a duck... it's probably a duck".

Among pages of the internet, and sorrowful laments of "how could he?" lies no answer good enough for the why. Because he could was the answer, because he chose to. Occassionally, I do still take the blame for allowing him to do as he wanted to me, even when I told him to stop. Always feeling like I have to carry everyone's responsibility, even when I voiced my boundaries.

On days I catch myself thinking of imaginary alternatives of what-if, I look at receipts to keep myself levelheaded. I mapped out all the red flags to see like golf course markers, and decided to do better for myself. I know I cared a lot, but it wasn't mutual. No reasonable person would resort to abuse or manipulation to get their ways. Or ask for silence.

I don't hate him, I can't muster that care. But I hate how he hurt me in all these tiny little ways, like death by paper cuts. On days I'm sad and hurt, I'm still glad I left. Because I'd rather be alone, than spend time with someone who'd yell at me in vitriol over how horrible I am. I always wondered what I did to warrant periods with so much abuse I thought I was wrong, but I see now, it wasn't me.

Excusing it on any other factor than choice is pathetic, because it means you learnt nothing and you intend on repeating the offence.

That's what I hate with abusers, they cry crocodile tears when you uncover them, but as long as you are complicit, they will repeat the same cyclical shit over and over. They don't care, they never did. It's all about what you can offer them, everything is transactional with them. When you are no longer useful, you are discarded like a cigarette butt on the ground.

I fell for someone because I thought he cared. It's in the small things, like chocolate pancakes. I fell out of love because he stopped, like when he walked out on me at my most vulnerable moment and all I needed was a hug.

That's what I wanted to write about, how actions have consequences, and I sure the pot will call the kettle black, as is most cases where the battered party speaks up. But there are degrees in hell, and I think when you resort to lies and intimidation to keep your partner, that's when it's red card.

I've been working on art for an exhibit on domestic violence. I'm going to be telling my story in a medium where I don't have to use words, only express my pain. Because it hurts, abuse hurts. It makes you think you are unlovable, even when you are not. I hope to bring that message to others. That they too are lovable.

#self reflecting #abuse cw #art #healing takes time #domestic violent relationships

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otsukare-katsukare · 5 months ago

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i was going down a rabbit hole yesterday about el generico's first true nemesis/hater, "Shooter" Jay Doring. and it was kind of a wonderful experience if i can explain it to you. doring used to be one of the writers for a site called TheSmartMarks.com and they were exactly what it says on the tin. smarrrrky indie wrestling fans who recapped and reviewed matches that otherwise have almost no remaining online record, particularly back in the 00s. and one time they reviewed an IWS show in 2003, and both the writers but especially jay doring, for whatever reason, utterly despised el generico. called him a "yardtard" about fifty times, complained about him being a spot monkey, not selling, botching, dumb/unprofessional look, the works.

i found this review through reading the works of the far better remembered Llakor, who referenced the "yardtard" comment as an illustrative point about generico's furiously dedicated fanbase. they were beside themselves with outrage at Doring, to the point of chanting "fuck shooter jay" at matches where he was, i assume, not even present, just cause this asshole had the audacity to come for el generico.

i read the review, and thought fucking yikes cause it was so so bad, but it also made me laugh just cause some of the things it says were very funny in light of where generico would end up by comparison with literally everyone else referenced in the piece, and thinking about that while reading doring's furious comments about how worthless scum like generico are worst indie wrestling has to offer, that they need to STOP pushing this guy who's clearly only over because of his Bouncing Souls theme music, was just pretty entertaining in its own right. and hey, for all i know, generico may well have not been at his best at that time, or even just on that day, he had literally only just started after all. i highly doubt he was as bad as doring makes him out to be, but just the notion of him having such a vitriolic hater that early on, felt narratively kind of appropriate.

and then i went and found more, and discovered to my delight that the story doesn't end at that review. there's one from later the same year, where shooter jay's tone is still sardonic, but much more conciliatory, acknowledging the nuclear heat his takedown earned him from the IWS community up to and including many death threats (not cool guys) and the fact that it reportedly made a young bright-eyed generico cry (death's too good for him, actually). and then he gets to the match, and what do you know it? he loves it. "I take back every bad thing i ever said about generico" he says, acknowledging that maybe his curmudgeonly "stupid anal-retentive Net geek whiny bullshit" isn't the best way to have fun at a wrestling show anyway. fast forward a few months, and generico makes it onto his top bumps of 2023 list because of course he does ("while I won't ever live down the disses I laid on Generico, anyone who wants to kill himself so willingly for his craft gets respect from me")

the iws generico trail kind of goes cold at this point but you get the idea. and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy on a few levels. firstly i love adding to the repertoire of "sami/generico wins the respect of a hater through sheer brute force" both in kayfabe and shoot scenarios. secondly, just the idea of this much passion being shared around, even if it's negative, over this little wrestling promotion in 2003 that nobody anticipated housing at least one future huge star, the idea of everyone involved being in the know and bouncing all those intense feelings back and forth, online and at shows... and thirdly, just cause really old online ephemera that's somehow managed to not get swallowed by the void, that captures a moment in time, makes me weirdly emotional. thank you jay doring.

#el generico #wonder if they ever actually met irl and if he was ever like hey. no hard feelings about the yartard stuff right. i think ur great.#and generico was like no problemo hermano it's bueno!#and jay was like you don't have to keep pretending to be mexican you know we're just hanging out outside the arena #and then kevin was like Is This Man Bothering You SamI Mean Generico

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mzminola · 2 years ago

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#kinda critical I guess?#mostly because I'm not going to pretend that Steph isn't responsible for getting herself fired#or causing the gang war#it's not like bruce doesn't share in the blame#he loaded the gun sure but steph's the one who pulled the trigger#after she broke into the gun vault to steal it from him#and she's not some innocent widdle kid who couldn't know any better she's 17#18 if people kept better track of her age relative to tim [tags via soleminisanction]

From the Doylistic lens, I think Stephanie got screwed over because DC was always planning to bring Tim back to the Robin role ASAP, and wanted a plot device to kick off War Games. She was always going to be fired (or quit). That’s one of the downsides of being a supporting character.

I think how they did the Robin thing is in character for Steph.

Looking at this now, having read more comics than I did back when it happened and I only heard about it secondhand, I think the sexism is... present but not as directly affecting things as I assumed. The art is clearly focused on her boobs, which is often a comics problem. But I think she got the Robin role while Tim was out, with DC having no intention of letting her keep it, because she was the only other active teen vigilante in Gotham who didn’t have her own series.

(Cass was busy being Batgirl, and I’m pretty sure everyone else was adults.)

Like if Steph was a dude, this would have gone down similarly, just with less boob-focused art (and maybe without DC higher ups claiming she didn’t count as Robin, but who knows, maybe they still would have).

The interpersonal drama with Tim could’ve been done through some other contrived misunderstanding (or maybe a real conflict, please DC) if they were platonic friends at the time. The sexism came into play ages ago when a writer chose to shoehorn her into dating Tim rather than sticking with Vitriolic Buds, and then with that established the writers for this went with the sexist “how dare you cheat on me (oh wait you didn’t)” cliche.

War Games still feels less in character and more victim-of-being-a-plot-device, though. I think Stephanie stealing the plans is within her established character at the time, but it would make more sense for her to wave “ha ha I did something sneaky under Batman’s nose” in Tim or Cass’s face (or even Barbara’s, by this point) rather than “I have to prove myself so B will take me back / let me be a vigilante”.

Because previously, Bruce told Steph to stop being Spoiler, more than once if I recall correctly, and she just... ignored him! Kept going out as Spoiler! She didn’t bother with any kind of “oh I gotta prove I can do it” she just fucking did it.

Though since she did kick off War Games, whether it was in character before, now it’s something I keep in mind with her further actions. And oof does she go on to make some terrible choices that are in line with this one.

How did Steph become Robin and how did she become fired? I know it was her starting a gang war but how exactly?

I had this whole thing typed up last night with citations and everything and then the post editor glitched and I lost the whole thing. :/ So, take 2:

Around Robin issues #124-125, Tim's father Jack discovered that he was Robin and went to Wayne Manor with a gun to threaten Bruce over the whole thing. To keep the peace, Tim volunteered to step down as Robin and promised his dad that he'd give that life up forever.

Shortly thereafter (Issue 126), Steph was stalking Tim at his school because if she doesn't see him every day she immediately assumes that he's cheating on her. She arrived at just the wrong moment to witness his classmate Darla plant a kiss on him, took that as proof that he was cheating, and ran away without bothering to wait the ten seconds it would've taken to see Tim push Darla away and tell her, again, that he has a girlfriend, sending her off in tears.

Steph went straight home, made herself a Robin costume, then went to the Bat-cave and told Bruce she would be the new Robin now. And Bruce agreed to let her try.

It's never actually defined what Stephanie's motivation for this is, BTW. We're left to pick it up from context clues -- like the fact that she was perfectly happy being Spoiler and had zero thoughts or plans in this direction until she saw Tim "cheating," and the fact that she then immediately ghosted Tim for what's implied to be weeks, potentially months, with no explanation.

It is, however, implied that Bruce might be going along with it all as a -- quoting Alfred -- "scheme to lure Tim back." Which, yeah, is not great.

So Bruce sets Steph up with a non-homemade Robin costume and a stupid new haircut (it only looks passable when Damion Scott draws it, everyone else needs to stop trying) and gives her this ultimatum.

Remember this for a later post, this one got too long. This arrangement of theirs lasts for a grand total of two full issues.

Seriously. Steph is hired as Robin at the end of issue #126, and she's fired at the end of #128. She appears in, I think, one or two issues of Cass's Batgirl, maybe the same months' corresponding Detective Comics and Batman issues (I don't really care to look them up to double-check), and a single B-plot appearance in an issue of the contemporary Teen Titans mostly dedicated to Superboy calling her a backstabbing wannabe poser and telling her she'll never be welcome at the Tower because she's not the real Robin.

That is the only time those two have ever spoken, BTW. Which is why a lot of people have been annoyed that they're suddenly being written as buddy-buds in the recent continuity for no reason.

Anyway, the point is, Steph's Robin career lasted a grand total of 3 months out-of-universe and forty-nine days in-universe, which we know because she started calling her diary-based narration her "War Journal" and counting the days there. This was recently re-confirmed in 2021's Robins miniseries.

Which brings us to how it ended, which is where I need to correct you slightly, anon. The gang war wasn't the cause of Steph's firing, it was the result.

The cause was an encounter with a powered-armor-wearing assassin called Scarab, who'd been hired by an old enemy of Tim's to kill black-haired, blue-eyed boys in Gotham in the hopes that she would eventually kill Robin. Encountering Steph with Bruce convinced Scarab that she must've killed her target ("resulting in the need for a replacement") and she was preparing to leave Gotham when Bruce & Steph tracked her down.

Bruce suited up in some power armor of his own and went down to fight Scarab, giving Steph strict orders to stay in the Bat-plane and not touch anything. Over the course of the resulting fight -- in which Bruce does seem to struggle a bit but never loses his cool and never seems to be in more danger than he would be in other fights -- he repeats these orders to Stephanie no less than five times.

Stephanie does not listen.

Stephanie rushes into the building, continues to disobey orders once she's there, and immediately gets herself taken hostage. Her life is threatened by the bad guy and Bruce lets Scarab go to save her.

That incident is what gets Stephanie fired.

Interestingly, despite what Bruce said about this being "the precise moment [Stephanie's] out," he actually waits until his injuries from the fight have recovered to drop the bomb, and it's implied that he stretches that out longer than he usually would -- out to a full three weeks -- to give her time to stew. Which I find very interesting, I'll talk about it more in the later post.

The gang war comes in because he gives her some privacy in the Batcave to collect her personal belongings before she goes, including her personal files off the Bat-computer. While doing this, she decides it's a great idea to steal one of Bruce's, quote, "contingency plans" to "wipe out all crime in Gotham... if worst came to worst." This particular plan involved bringing all of the Gotham crime families under Batman's control, and Steph figured that if she could "set that in motion, show she could help him" then he might "take her back."

Unfortunately, one of the "Big Secrets" that she wasn't privy to as a result of being on probation was the fact that Matches Malone, the guy on whom the entire plan hinged, was actually one of Batman's secret identities, so when he didn't show up to the meeting she arranged... boom. A bunch of mafia heads ended up dead, and that led to retaliation from their subordinates. Cue War Games.

#comics meta #DC #Stephanie Brown #Robin #Spoiler #Batfam #wow that page doesn't even bother showing Scarab grabbing her #just #running!#oop caught!#come on comics at least show me a fight

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skalidra · 3 years ago

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I’m a big fan and hoping to trouble you for advice. If writing complex or dysfunctional families, do you ever have readers who get *too* invested? As in, pushing for character bashing and a protagonist to just burn bridges? I’m glad I got an emotional response and ppl resonate with the conflict, but I’m trying for shades of grey here. It’s uncomfortable and I feel like I’ve misrepresented or poorly conveyed the story, and folks who are so avidly invested will be disappointed :(

Yes. Yes oh my god.

So, this is slightly different but this issue is actually the reason that I stopped writing the Jason in Arkham series, and eventually shut down comments on it entirely a few weeks ago.

For those unaware, JiA featured Jason having, as the name implies, a real bad time in Arkham, and no one noticing for too long (for a variety of reasons) so you had a highly traumatized Jason when he did get rescued. (And I was going to go into the recovery, and etc, but...)

People hated Dick in that story. Hated him, and screamed at him in the comments, and were vindictively gleeful about his pain when he realized that he'd messed up, and so on. No one seemed to care why he made the mistakes he did, or about how things looked from any perspective except Jason's, or the explanations of how he (and anyone else, but they didn't get the same vitriol) could have let something so awful happen.

Being the writer, I knew all those explanations, and it felt like every time someone came in looking to crucify Dick, I had to gather up all those reasons and go defend him. It was exhausting. It sucked. Every time I saw an email about a comment on those stories I hoped it wouldn't be yet-another person raging at him. It killed all enjoyment and interest I had in writing that series.

So I shut it down. It's the one thing that I've decided, even though it's not 'done,' that I'll never go back to. And a few weeks ago, after yet-another 'but why did you stop???' comment from yet-another person incapable of reading the numerous answers I'd already given in response to other comments, I finally turned off the comments on those stories entirely. I'll never have to talk about, think about, or engage with that series again, and honestly I'm relieved as fuck about that. I wish I'd done it years ago.

So, ask yourself a few things. (Little bit of guesswork here, because I can only infer what your story is about.)

First, are you enjoying writing the story? (If no, stop. It is not worth it if you're not having fun. Period.)

Is it something you could maybe fix with added tags? A blatant 'Reconciliation' or 'Unhealthy Choices' or something, if that's the way you plan for it to go, or some opposite tags, if not? (At that point, it's their fault for not reading what they were getting into. Rest easy.)

Do the characters' behaviors make sense to you? (It's most important that the story works for you. Everyone has different interpretations and reactions to shades-of-grey situations like that. Sometimes people make shitty choices or fall back into situations that are clearly unhealthy for them from an outside perspective, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes there is no clear 'moral' one in a situation. Sometimes there's no clear cut answer at all. None of these things are unrealistic, even if they may not be what readers 'want' in their specific emotional catharsis.)

If you want to be absolutely sure people understand what kind of story they're reading, you can put it in an author's note, too. People tend to be blind, but at that point they've been warned so like, oh well.

I am personally of the opinion that stories should be for the writer, and everyone else should come in secondary. So, I wouldn't worry about disappointing people, as long as you feel like you've made it relatively clear what kind of story it is. (Fuck people who don't understand. You know, kindly.)

If you still feel like people don't understand, or you're worried that you haven't gotten the balance quite right, maybe read back through what you've posted so far. Take a look from the other side and see if you can figure out where people are getting that intense investment in the outcome from. Maybe there's something small you can edit or add here or there that might help guide people towards that middle ground. Hints of equally messed up behavior on the part of the protagonist, or sweeter/kind scenes to balance out the unhealthy bits of the relationship, or something. Getting that balance can be tricky, definitely.

(I know this is a super uncomfortable thought, but you can also ask people to stop. A 'Hey I know you're invested but this type of comment makes me uncomfortable, please tone it down' could work wonders, even if it can be hard to be confrontational like that. Stating your desires, on your work, is something you are fully within your rights to do.)

At the end of the day, it's your story. What you do with it and how you choose to advertise it are your choice. If people don't like the way it went, they've got a great back button they can use.

(Good luck, Anon. I hope any of that rambling helped. If you want to ask anything else, feel free.)

#Asks #Anonymous #Writing #Jason in Arkham

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myrfing · 2 years ago

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Regarding all your everything about today's WoL question xD

Yeah I get you ;w; like I do think it's fine if like ... That's how they write their WoL -- if their WoL perceives their relationship with the Scions to be not great. And often times I have to remind myself that how their WoL perceives it =/= how the player actually perceives it. But sometimes people do insist that the Scions don't really care about the WoL and that does make me a little sad fjdkskf. Especially after everything in ShB and EnW.

But. That's them and I have my own thoughts, so. Poyo ... Sometimes I wonder if FFXIV is as free as people say ... There wouldn't be so many interpretions of the WoL and their relationships with the Scions otherwise, but I'm a little rigid about the WoL + Scions relationships I see in the wild?

Also sorry for, dumping thoughts into your inbox. You might have noticed a bunch of new notifs as of late but I'm shy so. /Rolls away

OH. HI first sorry for being so gung ho about my opinions I do recognize some people put conflict between their wol and scions because their wol is just meant to have issues and complexities about anything from their goals, to heroism, whatever. Some of my favorite wols/writers in the fanbase have written their little guy to completely reject being the wol and the scions, to have run away and be very bitter and angry towards even the gentlest attempts to get them back, and I love what they wrote.

I do personally think though that the msq is a very linear and somewhat rigid story, and a lot of people just sort of…struggle with that. Maybe cus they like the antagonist characters more, maybe because they disagree with the scions politics and goals, maybe the story just doesnt work with what they want for their wol, maybe they just don’t plain like the scions as people and end up feeling like they’re being “forced” to do all this crazy shit “for their sake” when nothing they want aligns with the scions. like I have issues with the scions and always had since arr and to a point I suspend my disbelief but. A lot of people seem to think yeah none of this WAS worth it a majority of the game is boring ridiculous bs and I only liked amaurot/whatever. and they want this to be the reality for their wol without blame, for them to have a good reason to blame others that just…doesn’t really exist. So then all the quests and trials are just an unwanted burden, even though…this is just the leap of faith you give towards a video game that asks you to play it. like game mechanics suddenly are a personal affront, minfilia asking you to turn in a quest to her becomes an indication of her like, moral failings and inconsiderateness, alphinaud being gung ho about better eorzea is just a marker of how he’s a coldhearted despotic 16 year old dragging around your sad chained up angel wol strongest person ever btw with a leash. but instead being like oh yeah I want a canon divergence big time from the get go a weird number of people just preach their wildly poor faith readings about fairly mild and well-meaning characters as truth LMFAOOO. which like, sure, everyone go ham and have fun, but I see a lot of resulting complaints directed at the writers with weird amounts of vitriol. like oh the fucking scions are cruel ingrates towards garlyman1 and the writers wont let me yell at them for it in the new patch, they don’t know what they’re doing with their own themes. in the future i want the option to say/do [shit that would be absolutely wild for the character known as “Thee WoL” to suddenly say with no buildup and is entirely substantiated on their oc’s story]. like people legit turning on ishikawa WHOOO is not a perfect writer by any means but for just running with the basic premise that “the wol and the scions are friends and they want to do good by the world”. and this thing is the basic impetus that progresses you along the entire story and lets you experience its content. Some people have expressed such heavy disgust at this basic ass core thing that you had to play along with to play the game since you first spoke to the scions that I just…????. I guess it makes me think like do you actually LIKE the story or. did you go through 263836822 hours of it just hating the vast majority of it. which would be less weird if the game wasn’t so long and expensive and didnt require so much deliberate choice to keep playing.

and admittedly this is just me turning my nose up at shit out of my own tastebuds but some people will reach to make any character who in canon is like, just some guy living life, into bizarrely evil total fucking incompetent or manipulative assholes who are obsessed with making the wol’s life hell and whose entire existences revolve around making the player specifically the…biggest victim I guess. like jesus on the cross shit. every day wake up eat my cereal traumatize the wol who bears the weight of all the worldly sins because nobody thinks they are just #human and are content to let them suffer alone. and I personally find that uber masturbatory and weird in any writing lol. in the end I think a lot of what people write and how they write it is a communication of ideas and if that idea is “everyone sucks and is so mean to me the most sane and rational and human one of all time” and if you have to reduce the humanity of other characters to bolster yours to the point they have no resemblance to their original selves im going to be like your ideas fucking suck dude. also sorry this turned into another humungo rant it is cool to have you share your thoughts with me and i dunno if this is anything for making a distinction or finding the balance between “player freedom to write their own story” vs. actual misinterpetation. in the end i dont know what’s going on in people’s heads for sure

#i do think some people lack imagination so they just #run with some shit no matter hwat #because it’s just a commonly accepted angst intepretation in fandom #also in the end it is not that serious people are just finding their ways to have fun with it.#even if I’m annoyed by general fandom trends in the end these people do not write for me #and i dont for them so everyone clap

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retroactiive · 2 years ago

Text

not-museing-around:

There was a reason Billie hadn’t yelled at Austen himself through the filming process. It wasn’t his fault, and if she actually wanted things to change she would have to take it up with the other producers, with the directors and script writer. “Oh I’m sorry, was it not clear enough how I feel about your acting? If you had read the source material, this might not be so terrible. So either your reading comprehension is atrocious, or you’re lying.” What an audacious fucking asshole. As he stepped closer, her arms crossed over her chest. And then he had the gal to call her selfish. “Why the fuck do you think I haven’t pulled the plug? You pretentious, fuck. I’m allowed to be upset that a room full of people have taken my lifes work and turned it into a fucking joke. I understand what this can mean, but as it is right now, the movie is garbage. So what it could be for a lot of people it won’t be. No one is going to see a movie that right out the bat is truly terrible.” Billie was angry to the point of tears in her eyes. How disrespectful could this fucker be? “You’re out here, trying to break into the big time, right? How well is that going to go over when you’re in a movie with 4% on rotten tomatoes that lost money in the boxoffice? You’re calling me selfish when my desire to give everyone a chance that’s kept me from telling you to get the fuck out. If you were capable of bringing this level of emotion to your performance then maybe I’d have more hope.” Billie was always the nicest girl in the room but he had crossed so many lines. He was hot though, actually showing a little bit of emotion.

---

“ oh fuck off, “ austen responds with a bit of distaste in his voice, eyes locked on the woman in front of him, who was beating down everything that he was doing. “ i’ve read every word of every fucking book, but it just about how i wanna act. it’s about what the director wants. if he wants to ruin the duality of lysander, take away the emotion that makes his cold behavior so heartrending, then i’m gonna do as i’m told. “ the words that left his lips tasted like venom and it was spewed right in billie’s direction, but only because she was coming after him with such vitriol. like it was his fault that this production was turning into a shit show more and more by the day. and she was right, the longer he worked on this picture, the more he realized that it wasn’t going to be great. but that didn’t mean he wouldn’t get paid and soon. and austen needed the money and exposure more than he needed billie’s approval. “ then put your fucking foot down and stop blaming other people for you being too fucking weak. you think this movie is ass, then demand they fix it. expose their shit and embarrass the studio into doing it right. but fucking whining and bitching about me while you don’t know shit about me? that’s just gonna piss me off. “ and just like that, austen has pushed everything back onto her plate. closing the gap, he glares right into her bright eyes. “ do what needs to be done, because it’s right. you wrote lysander. it’s what he’d do, aint it? put up or shut up. “

There was a reason Billie hadn't yelled at Austen himself through the filming process. It wasn't his fault, and if she actually wanted things to change she would have to take it up with the other producers, with the directors and script writer. "Oh I'm sorry, was it not clear enough how I feel about your acting? If you had read the source material, this might not be so terrible. So either your reading comprehension is atrocious, or you're lying." What an audacious fucking asshole. As he stepped closer, her arms crossed over her chest. And then he had the gal to call her selfish. "Why the fuck do you think I haven't pulled the plug? You pretentious, fuck. I'm allowed to be upset that a room full of people have taken my lifes work and turned it into a fucking joke. I understand what this can mean, but as it is right now, the movie is garbage. So what it could be for a lot of people it won't be. No one is going to see a movie that right out the bat is truly terrible." Billie was angry to the point of tears in her eyes. How disrespectful could this fucker be? "You're out here, trying to break into the big time, right? How well is that going to go over when you're in a movie with 4% on rotten tomatoes that lost money in the boxoffice? You're calling me selfish when my desire to give everyone a chance that's kept me from telling you to get the fuck out. If you were capable of bringing this level of emotion to your performance then maybe I'd have more hope." Billie was always the nicest girl in the room but he had crossed so many lines. He was hot though, actually showing a little bit of emotion.

#{ austen x billie }#{ threads : guest }#not-museing-around

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ficforthought · 4 years ago

Text

On being SO DONE with M*sha, a rant a decade in the making!

After giving this some thought I'm going to go ahead and give my opinion on Misha and yesterday’s situation in public for the first time ever. I was going to just post on Twitter but since this has been 12 years in the making I have exceeded the number of tweets I can put in one thread! There’s A LOT in here, so my summary is also long. I'm aware that I will lose followers over this, I'm not looking to offend anyone but it will inevitably happen. I wish anyone leaving all the best as fellow human beings.

TL;DR - having kept quiet for so long I’ve finally reached my limit and it’s all come bubbling out. I’ve never been a fan of Misha, I’ve been ambivalent for the most part, but have never criticised him in any hateful way, that's not who I am, but after all these years of putting up with his bullshit, attention seeking and troublemaking I am DONE. Deleting his tweet containing the word Wincest and replacing it with an APOLOGY just to pander to his Minions and save face is the straw that broke the camel's back. He has consistently pushed his ship on not only fans but on other actors (despite Jensen's discomfort, and him having repeatedly made his feelings known on it), he has stood by while his Minions/Hellers have harassed, victimised, doxxed and sent death threats to people based on their FICTIONAL ships. He has pandered to their gatekeeping, constantly demanded attention in obvious and not so obvious ways, and to the best of my knowledge never criticised their actions even though he's aware of it in a very real way. Some of his Minions have now taken their shit into The Boys fandom and created negativity for Jensen before the guy has even got a foot through the set door, and how is that supporting one half of your ship?

Misha has claimed to be a victim of targeted harassment from Wincest/brother fans (not only shippers) yet his fans have said and done the most despicable things on his watch, all in the name of what he must think is entertainment, or even his idea of a ‘joke’.

Any respect I had for the man based on his humanitarian work has gone because I can only take so much hypocrisy. He and his pandering because of a desperate attempt to be woke and wholly inclusive (which is actually impossible, no matter how good intentions are) are beyond pathetic. Whilst I have never seen why people think he’s so great I have friends IRL and online who genuinely adore the man, yet they have been shocked and upset by his contempt for half of the fandom that made him somewhat famous. It's disgusting and I'm not scrolling by any more. Misha, I hope to never see you on anything J2 related in future because none of us need that kind of negativity, *especially* not J2. Be gone, foul fiend!

OK, so to the too long part. Please be aware that these are my opinions as a fan of the show, of Sam and Dean, and J2, not only as a shipper. I can separate canon and fanon, and can view canon from a gen or shippy PoV. Whether you agree or disagree with my opinion let me be clear that I do not condone constant bashing and hate of a person or character so this isn’t the start of a regular thing for me. It's possible to have an opinion and not show the same vitriol that has been following this man around for years, and that’s what I’m doing. I've not posted this to prompt more negativity, it's simply to get it off my chest and make it clear how I feel. I stand by my philosophy of ship who you want to ship, enjoy it, but don't force it on other people and don't be a dick about it…hmm, that kinda sounds like familiar behaviour, though, does it not?!

I have ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE with other people liking Misha, Cas or Destiel when it’s for the love of the characters and the ship. What I *do* have an issue with is people who are the true definition of a Heller. I don’t see that as a generic term, don't be ignorant and think I do because I know the difference between actual ship fans and the crazies, both ships have ‘em and I want no part of either of their venom. If you are reading this and class yourself as a Heller then you are part of the problem so run along and as you are all so fond of saying, 'get help' and take your bestie king with you.

I’m stating my opinion in what I feel is the most mature way I can, because unlike many people on SM, I am an adult and can act accordingly, with forethought and without resorting to temper tantrums and bullying of other people to get my point across. I am able to tell the difference between reality and fiction, I don't tar everyone with the same shipper brush and I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion, but as we know opinions are like arseholes, we all have them and sometimes they stink. Unlike some, for the most part in life (online and offline) I *do* stand by what I say and don’t backtrack or delete things to appease the masses. I have spent a lot of time writing this out to be as clear as possible without being intentionally hateful. Bear with me jumping between actor and character where relevant, at this point they're conjoined. I will say this before I go any further, it doesn’t end well for Misha, I don’t mince my words and if you don’t like seeing facts and opinions laid out, this isn't the post for you.

I’ll say right off the bat what most of you have surmised - I’ve never held Misha (or Cas) in high esteem but I have never *hated* on him. I have shared mild criticism of his actions and opinions on Cas over the years but never, I feel, in any way that has made me feel I have something to apologise for. I have said several times I've been unhappy about Misha crashing con panels, taking attention away from J2 when at those cons *most* people paid their hard earned money to see the STARS of the show they love, first and foremost, and anyone else is a very nice bonus. The odd appearance here and there crashing a panel is fine (and Misha isn’t the first or last person to do it), maybe take up a few minutes then leave, but when someone commandeers an entire panel, that's just not on. It's not only selfish, rude and attention seeking but also disrespectful to other actors, fans and to the organisers who work hard to make sure everything ties in to give us the best con experience we can have. Everyone gets their turn on stage, there's no need to try and hog any more of the limelight, Veruca Salt style. Oh, and if you’re reading this and not getting that reference, (a) you shouldn’t be on my blog because you’re far too young, (b) look it up, and if you still don’t get what I’m saying… well then please refer to point (a). Thank you, kindly!

There was a time in Kripke's era where Cas was - I feel - intentionally used as a pawn by the writers to divert *canon* from the ‘questionable’ relationship between Sam and Dean, i.e. Wincest focus. Prior to that people (other fans) lightened up and just accepted the fact that Wincest had been there since day one in terms of the writing of the show and the fandom. All the cast and crew knew - J2, Kripke and JDM in particular - and made light of it, never judging, never shaming and often encouraging it because they understand it’s a fun part of fandom. Wincest was present enough to be part of the not so subtle subtext, as I said people just accepted it. Kink tomato was alive and well, so was ‘don’t like, don’t read’ and we all just scrolled over things we didn’t like without turning everything into a personal vendetta and excuse for bullying others who didn’t share our views. When the angels came into the plot I think most of us Wincest fans gave the Dean/Cas innuendos the small laugh they deserved and then turned back to the focus of the show which was the brothers, as it had always been intended. Misha, however, milked those moments as much as possible which was amusing at the start but got old *very* quickly, not just for fans (shippers and non shippers alike), but for other actors, in particular Jensen who is on record MULTIPLE times showing his dislike for Destiel. He told people outright that's not how he was playing the relationship between the two characters and CATEGORICALLY said "Destiel doesn't exist" but did it end there? No, it did not because neither fans or Misha let it go, in fact Misha only pushed more, goaded fans into flogging the same dead horse as much as possible. He’s never stopped, not even when there was so much discord in the fandom, a huge wedge was driven into it because of ships, which IMO he heavily contributed to.

Fast forward to over a decade later (a decade, seriously man, let it fucking go!) he didn’t even stop when Destiel did partially go canon. I have never doubted that Cas loved Dean (Sam, too) because in SPN lore angels are made to love, even rebellious ones. I, along with many others, liked that about Cas because who doesn't love a rebel, especially one rebelling for very good reasons, and because of those two wonderful men? Sam and Dean allowed him to see beyond what he'd been brainwashed to believe his entire existence. The fact is that although the nature of that love changed for Cas, it never did for Dean and was CANONICALLY UNREQUITED because Dean was incapable of loving anyone else as much as he loved Sam. All that mattered to Dean, even when he saw other characters as "family" was still Sam…ALWAYS Sam, every step of the way. Again for those who have too much Misha shaped wax in their ears, that’s canon. Whether people choose to see that love platonically or romantically is up to them, soulmates don't always have to be romantic, either way, brotherly love won out above all else on the show. No amount of Misha screaming ‘hey look, Destiel!’ changed that, but it sure didn’t stop him trying, did it?

So now that the obvious has been stated, here's something else we all know - never once in all of the years on the show did Misha drop rallying of the troops to his precious, ego stroking ship. Never once (that I am aware of) has he called out his Minions and Hellers on their continued harassment of everyone involved in the show and other fans despite the fact that they have bullied, victimised and wished bodily harm, rape and death on people who don't see their ship and because didn't get the ending to the story that they wanted. Not once has Misha shown any remorse for the trauma his "fans" have caused, and I’m taking REAL trauma, here, not the kind Twitter stans see as ‘triggering’ - people have been driven to close SM accounts, attempted, and in some cases succeeded in taking their own lives. These Minions have openly mocked Jared’s struggles with depression and anxiety, and Misha - who claims to be friends with J2 and be supportive of them in every way - has stood by and let it all play out, knowing full well some of the goings on, if not the full extent of how toxic these people are. We know he sees things being said online, and I have absolutely no doubt he spends time online searching his name for things that are relevant in some way to him in an effort to insert himself into a current conversation, or even start one so that attention is on him. Gotta stay relevant, somehow, right, Mish?

He has actively encouraged bullying by his actions of enabling the behaviours above, both by the flogging of the aforementioned dead horse, AND by not objecting to unacceptable behaviours. Remember when Minions and Hellers were slating J2, particularly Jared, for not posting on SM about BLM and other topics? Yeah, he didn’t ask them to stop doing that, either, even when he was tagged in things along the lines of ‘If Misha can post why can’t J2?’ etc. There have been some token protests, con vids I've seen have show his 'objections' which IMO have been done in a very tongue in cheek way, meaning that those people who needed to be pulled aside and told to change their ways just carried on, because their evil overlord didn’t explicitly explain it in terms a three year old could understand that bullying and forcing your opinion on others is WRONG. Not all of his cult are young and impressionable, not by a long shot, but many of the more vocal and vitriolic ones are.

As a father himself I wonder what Misha would do if he found out that his kids were behaving in ways his Minions are? I’m aware they’re young, but kids are cruel and bullying doesn’t just happen online. Even at whatever age they are, would he laugh it off the way he appears to have done with all of this fandom toxicity? Not bloody likely! I wonder if he’s as desperate to gain the approval of his family, friends and colleagues as he appears to be for that of his Minions/Hellers? I would certainly hope so, but that question can only be answered by Misha, himself, and I can and will not presume to speak on someone else's behalf on things in their personal life. For the record I would never presume I know what J2's answers would be on anything, however I do feel that after 15 years I have an accurate gauge on what kind of people they are so would be confident that any opinion I had on a matter aligns with their morals and ethics. As much as J2 have shared of themselves with us - willingly and under no pressure to do so, I might add - we don't *know* them, but we know enough to have an informed opinion. I can’t say the same for Misha because based on the behaviour he’s repeatedly displayed, things I've heard about from other fans as well as people I know IRL who have had direct dealings with him through cons or GISH (including some very actively in the early days when it was GISHWHES) he just hasn’t seemed like a person I wanted to follow on SM. I’ve never watched any of his solo panels, though I have watched ones with both or one of the J's, mostly being left irritated because of his behaviour. Watching the J’s put up with that shit is painful, and it’s a testament to how good they are as actors that they managed to hide at least some of their disdain for as long as they did. Microexpressions give them away, particularly Jensen, and they certainly have faces I have spent many years watching closely. Beautiful faces to go with beautiful souls, both of them! <3

I have precisely ZERO interest in Destiel as a ship, very little interest in Cas as a character anymore (though I did like him in the early days,and his relationship with Jack in late seasons) so I have absolutely no reason or desire to follow anything Misha does. That said, I've obviously been peripherally aware of some things he's been involved in because of friends, from things I’ve seen on SM and general fandom stuff. Despite the things I've already mentioned about his behaviour, up until now I have been able to maintain a level of respect for him as a person because of the humanitarian and charity work he's done. He seems like someone who really does want to change the world for the better and I am in full support of that fact, so much so that I have supported TWO campaigns relating to him. I bought one of the Super Good t-shirts for the campaign he did with Michael Sheen (a true angel!), the SPN/Good Omens x-over to help homeless charities, and I chose the design with text only and not artwork of Michael and Misha on, basically because I didn’t want to be wearing something with Misha’s face on it and I make absolutely no apology for that, whatsoever. I also bought Alex's #TheEndHasNoEnd shirt, which some of the profits went to Random Acts who do great work, so again, despite not liking Misha I still willingly contributed for a cause bigger than me, and to support Alex, who I absolutely ADORE. I'm aware that Stands aren't popular with some of the fandom, however since most of the cast of SPN are happily affiliated with them then I don't feel it's my place to either judge, or to discuss topics I know next to nothing about. But I digress, as a decent human being I have shown support tangentially to a man who I don't care for out of respect for the work he does outside the fandom. Telling you this isn’t to paint myself in a good light - I don’t need your approval, I’m a big girl, unlike some I don’t need constant validation! - only to provide background on how I’ve actively *not* hated on Misha.

Now though, any respect I had for him has come to an abrupt end, the events of the past 24 hours has seen to that. Whilst I have been annoyed at his behaviour in regards to shipping, I don't feel it's ever gone this far, or at least not that I've seen first hand. This man has, IMO, contributed to so much toxicity in the fandom by way of things I've mentioned before, he's claimed - without actually saying the words - that Wincest fans weren't interested in him as a character when he came onto the show, and hasn’t felt included because of the fans’ love of the brothers. Um, hate to break it to you, love, but when you come onto an established show that is about two people, and you’re a *guest star* you can’t expect everyone to love you. Some characters we as individuals do fall in love with straight away (Bobby, Charlie, Crowley and Rowena are good examples for me), it takes time to establish a dynamic, so if that’s how he felt then it was incredibly naive of him as an actor to expect instant acceptance from anyone. Also, why wait until after the show finished to bring it up AGAIN … oh wait, yeah, that would be to step back into the limelight in a way intended to garner sympathy from Minions and INTENTIONALLY piss off bro fans and Wincest shippers alike? How fucking self centred, desperate and disrespectful do you have to be to shit all over the finale of a show that for the most part accepted you and kept you in paid work for 12 years? Well, Misha Collins levels of all of those things, obviously.

So, on the topics of self centred, desperate to stay relevant, attention seeking and being oh so needy, the tweet yesterday from Amazon mentioned Castiel. He wasn’t tagged in it, so I refer to my earlier comment about searching online, because how else would he have possibly seen that? It’s possible someone sent it to him, I appreciate that, but if we go off past behaviour it’s not any stretch at all to believe that didn’t happen. So, once again, having seen the tweet he took it upon himself to - oh so predictably - turn it into something relating to Destiel. When I saw it I immediately rolled my eyes and thought ‘here we go again’, but then also had a little smile because I really liked the fact that he explicitly mentioned Wincest, therefore seeming to accept that his poor old dead horse wasn’t the only one in the race. I actually mentally tipped my hat to him then because it appeared that he’s matured enough to acknowledge by name the ship that predates his inclusion on the show. Great, I thought, this is a positive thing in a sea of negativity surrounding the man and his sunken ship, because what followed was Wincest trending in the US (it may also have been other countries as well but I had to sleep!) … largely due to the fact that Hellers were responding to it, calling him out on mentioning the dreaded ‘W’ word. I’ll repeat that because it’s been a rare occurrence up to that point… the Minions were actually disappointed with their overlord for mentioning another ship. We all know what they think of it and I for one, don’t give a flying fuck about their opionion. Ship and let ship, it’s all fun (or meant to be) so we have different tastes, that’s life kiddiwinks, deal with it. I mean, you really don’t have much of an example set for you when your king has proven several times over to be one of the biggest obnoxious brats out there, but just give it a try for your own sakes, yeah? Awesome, good on you, besties!

An unexpected development - to my joy and that of other Wincest shippers - them doing that got the topic trending, only *kept* trending by the fact that were all coming online asking why it was trending. Wincest shippers barely lifted a finger, we just flooded each other’s timelines with lovely content and basked in the Hellers - and Misha - shooting themselves in the foot, which was awesome. But did the vitriol stop? No. Did he get the attention he so clearly craves? Yes. Was it in the way he wanted? Fuck no, so poor, emotionally wounded baby backtracked after seeing that his name was trending alongside Wincest because that’s *so* not what someone narcissistic to do it in the first place, wanted.

Now here’s where I could easily have just moved on with an unusually fond chuckle, giving him an ironic pat on the back and a ‘thanks, Misha’ for being the one to instigate hours of fun, but once again his despicable behaviour made that impossible. It’s been more than obvious for many years that he cares more about what his fans think than anything else to do with the show and the fandom in a larger sense, but to delete the tweet and APOLOGISE for daring to be so insensitive to the snowflakes’ delicate sensibilities for mentioning Wincest in the first place was absolutely disgusting. Stating , “I used a term that I had never really given any thought to other than, "that's a thing?! Yuck." is not only complete and utter bullshit, it’s pandering of the highest order.

We all know he has referred to Wincest on multiple occasions, so to say he hadn’t thought about is a flat out lie, which IMO is an insult to everyone, not just Wincest shippers. Does the man have no self respect at all, why would you contradict yourself in the face of such overwhelming evidence? Instead of either ignoring all the people calling him out, or addressing it with another tweet saying ‘yeah, that happened’ or something similar he chose, I repeat, CHOSE the route of claiming he didn’t realise he was being offensive to people who felt ‘triggered’ by him using the word Wincest. He basically shat all over an entire ship and large sector of the fandom in an attempt to appease his own fan base which consists of a lot of children (or those that act like children) who have no idea what RL is like.

Once again, he’s reinforced the idea that if you shout loud enough at someone just because you don’t like something they said, they will back down and apologise for something even when there’s nothing to apologise for. If he wants to be such a role model then he could easily have pointed out that a fictional ship doesn’t condone RL incest, any ACTUAL trauma people have suffered because of RL situations, and made an effort to make sure people understand that. He COULD have used it as an opportunity to do some good in the fandom by encouraging people to build bridges, to accept that people are entitled to their beliefs and that sometimes we see things differently but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t treat others with BASIC HUMAN DECENCY because of it. Instead he YET AGAIN chose to show that he cares more about what Minions think of him, keeping them onside to constantly stroke his unbelievably fragile ego in everything he does.

It is my understanding that Misha is big on (or claims to be big on) putting positive energy out into the world, treating people with respect, helping others and accepting people for who they are, not who you want them to be… all this after YEARS of consistently practising what he preaches only when it suits him. He sends out a message that it’s perfectly OK to bully, to spread hate, to draw attention to yourself at the cost of others, to throw colleagues and friends under the bus and at the same time use them to further your own agenda and get hits for your YouTube channel. Is this really the legacy he wants to leave? Is this an environment he wants his own kids to grow up in as well as future generations? Is this what he thinks is a valuable contribution as a human being? JFC, the arrogance, hypocrisy and the need for constant validation this man exhibits is nothing short of cringeworthy… actually it’s beyond that. It’s deplorable behaviour, it’s not new, and he will continue to act like this for as long as he’s being enabled and this harmful cycle needs to end.

I have friends IRL and online who are (now, possibly, were) big Misha fans, who have supported him from either the beginning of his run on the show, or since they started watching, and this is how he repays this behaviour? He’s willfully alienating decent people (including multishippers) all to make himself look good by being seen to do everything he can not to offend people. Spoiler alert, you DID offend people, you continue to do so time and again and we’ve had enough. I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to be such a perpetual people pleaser, but let me say it’s not doing you any favours in any way, shape or form.

Misha, you are *not* a role model, you’re *not* someone to look up to when you can't live up to the ideals you preach. You’re spitting in the face of people who have supported you even after some questionable things in the past, who gave you the benefit of the doubt because we’re all human and we all make mistakes. The key to growing as a person is not to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over, understanding *why* what you said and/or did was a mistake and making a concerted effort to make changes. I don’t ever see you doing that, you will continue down this path of only caring about Minions under the guise of caring for people in general. You are transparent, you are sad and despite the fact I’ve never particularly liked you, I didn’t speak up because I didn’t want to get involved in the drama. Well now I have spoken up and I’m saying you’re a disgrace, you have no respect for other people and nobody is fooled anymore. If it hadn’t been this tweet it would have been something else, but I for one am glad it happened so soon after the show ended so we can finally be rid of the limpet-like behaviour. It’s over, let it go for the sake of what dignity you might have left, for the sake of your family and friends and for the sake of anyone who isn’t capable of seeing through your ‘it’s a joke’ mentality.

You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, Misha.

For anyone who made it to the end of my ramble, thank you. This has been a cathartic exercise and I’m drawing a line under it now, I don’t think I could possibly make my thoughts any clearer. I urge you not to get caught up in any petty squabbles with his Minions, let’s celebrate J2 and other cast and crew members who have shown us all respect and who I am proud to call part of the SPN family. There’s always one member of the family who needs to be frozen out for the good of everyone else.

#ficforthought speaks #sorry not sorry #i spent way too long on this #purging the poison

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doomedship · 3 years ago

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I’m at the point where they should really just let us into the writers room lol. We’d probably do it way better after the season so far.

I’m concerned about them losing people after the break if the next two eps don’t go the way they should. It’s probably safe for a 5th season since it’s on par with other 10pm ABC dramas, but maybe if they have a sharp decline in viewers they’ll change things since they write as they go along I think? I don’t know. People are at the end of their ropes. And it probably will get worse. At least until Chenford begins looking like themselves again and gets a move on it with progression. I feel like more damage control might be on the horizon lol. Help us all.

With the frequency of breaks this show takes and the lack of overarching plots it's not the best for creating a consistent sense of momentum. It's definitely not a show that has narrative hooks. My understanding is people really just tune in because they are attached to at least one of the components, be that Chenford or Nathan or Jenna or whoever.

I think the fanbase that consists of Nathan fans is bound to be fine, steady and consistent. Nolan is the only one perpetually rammed down our throats in broadly the same manner. He hasn't had a character assassination, he's never really even had a flaw. So from that perspective, the show will keep trudging on.

However, even non-Chenford oriented reviews after Sunday are none too impressed by the writing and I think that's been noticeable.

I think many reviewers noted that the plot was weak for the last episode. I.e. they ruined the whodunnit they were building up by suddenly having that side character appear early on in the episode, turning up very conspicuously at the police station, so it was obvious he wasn't just a random side character.

Cue a very lengthy confrontation where only Nolan appears. Sidelining every single other character and removing any element of risk or doubt since there was no way in hell anything bad would actually happen to Nolan.

So if the plots are just 😐 even for casual viewers, that's when you're in dangerous territory.

On the point about damage control, I wonder to what extent the show is even aware of what's going wrong. It's hard to get the point across to the right people, after all.

I've also noted the very angry and hostile backlash from a few individuals against the people commenting that the writing wasn't great on Twitter, accusing those who comment they didn't like the episode of "ruining it" for everyone else if they let the show cast and crew know they were disappointed. I find this an unhealthy stance. There seems to be a crippling fear of critical commentary in some quarters which I'd say actually undermines any chance of seeing a return to the kind of writing that was almost universally enjoyed by the fandom.

If the show is letting the audience down such that ever larger numbers have concerns on serious topics, including the increasingly misogynistic portrayal of women or the erasure of non-white characters, I think it's totally valid to tell the people concerned, politely. An audience doesn't have much power to change a show's course but staying silent is guaranteed to lead to more of the same.

None of the @s I've seen have been hateful or lacking actual basis. It's not vitriolic or just for the sake of saying something negative. It's usually just a question, "why do the women have a lesser role this season", or an expression of wishes, "I hope Lucy has more serious storylines soon". This is, in my book, completely reasonable.

How can the show do better if all anyone ever says is thank you, that was perfect?

Obviously I'm not saying go nuts tagging all the cast and crew and demanding things left, right and centre. I myself don't particularly like directly engaging with any of them (hence why I'm on Tumblr much more than Twitter) so keep this to a minimum. The cast in particular have little say over what gets put into the show, they just bring it to life, so I don't see much to gain complaining to them about the writing.

But asking questions and holding executives and writers to account isn't a crime worthy of a witch hunt like some are suggesting.

#chenford #ds: asks #the rookie

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askyourwritergrandma · 3 years ago

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Hello grandma

I hope you're doing alright.

I have started to write a fanfiction for the first time. I always wanted to write a story since I was 8 and now at the age of 22 I have decided to write. I thought I should start with a fanfiction because it's easier since I don't have to write characters from scratch.

Now I'm done with the first part out of five parts of story and I'm happy with it, everything is exactly as what I had planned and I'm putting a lot of effort on it. My problem is that I'm scared to post it when it's done. I keep thinking that what if my idea was stupid, maybe I should write it for myself and never share it with anyone.

I'm sorry my ask is more like a rant. I haven't told anyone that I'm writing.

I keep saying to myself that I've got nothing to lose, nobody is going to know that I wrote a fanfiction and posted, but deep down I'm thinking if I can't get a fanfiction right, how I'm supposed to write my original story that I've been thinking and writing notes about it for almost 3 years.

Sorry again that was long.

Take care grandma especially in these dangerous times ❤

Hi anon!

I'm doing just about as well as I can be (and resisting the urge to put a gif of that sloth from Zootopia here). I hope you're doing well too.

Welcome to writing! Before we get into anything else, I just want to say regardless of wherever your writing journey takes you and whatever you see out there in the greater internet regarding writing, if you have taken the time and energy to put words to a story, you are a Certified Story Teller. You are a writer and you should absolutely be proud of it and your story.

I don't know if you've run across it already or that unfortunate encounter lays in front of you still, but you will 100% definitely find yourself, at some point, reading some nonsense gatekeeping discourse about who is and who is not allowed to call themselves a writer. You might find a cutting bit of well-thought-out vitriol about the worth of fanfiction vs. original You will wade through some manner of self-published vs. traditionally published. I want you to remember as you go, take only what you need from these things. A bit of how-to, a sampling of advice that you like, encouragement when you find it and leave all the hateful, limiting nonsense behind.

That feeling that you're describing in your post, that awful doubt that your story (and by extension yourself) aren't good enough is something that all writers (all creative types, really) feel. They might be honest about it like you are, they might play it for laughs, they might slather it in arrogance or they might weaponize against others to make themselves feel more adequate. Strip away all that, the fact remains that you have put your time, energy, emotion and heart into creating something. Its an act of vulnerability whether it's a novel, a one-shot, a pwp or a headcanon and its perfectly, 100% completely normal to have anxiety about sharing it.

But some advice about how to cope with that, and maybe a few things to ease you into sharing your work!

A few frank things that we need to be completely honest about regarding your first story:

Much like a baby learning to walk, when you start writing, you will wobble and hang on things to keep yourself upright and fall over. This is completely normal. In fact, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it. No amount of advice or plotting or intense study will change the fact that your first story is the starting point.

Try not to compare your writing or your ideas to other writing/ideas that you see. Its natural and everyone does it and it has it's own function in your growth as a writer, but don't base your success/failure on it. Instead of that, look at what you've written and compare it to your own idea of what you wanted to write.

Some people will not like your writing and you don't need them to. Someone passing on your story isn't an insult, it's just not the right audience for your work.

Sometimes it takes a while to get people to notice you and that time can feel a lot like defeat. Its easy to get disheartened if your goal is to be seen. As a young (as in new to writing) writer you should try to focus your sense of accomplishment/success/failure on something that is entirely in your control. You cannot control if someone will click on your story, but you can control challenging yourself to write prompts. Write different characters? Write different scenes? There are a lot of writing prompts/writing exercises on the internet that you can use to practice some of the less exciting things about writing.

In fact, that's what young writers need more than they need anything. They need practice. So much practice. Not because your stories are bad, but because just like walking, its a challenge to start with but the more you do it, the more you understand the mechanics and basics the easier it gets to manage the exciting things.

TL:DR, nobody shows up with an award winning first story and anyone who says this is the first time they sat down at a keyboard and wrote anything is probably not being entirely truthful. Writing is a talent and a skill and you have to work at it to develop both.

NOW, the harder stuff, how do you get the confidence to share after I've just spent all this time telling you that first stories are starting points and people might ignore you? Try this:

If the story you are currently working on is your first born and it is sacred and special to you, do not start by posting it. The first thing you write that you put your heart into is like falling in love for the first time. You aren't likely to forget it. (As evidence, the first story I ever wrote and loved is a story that I am still writing version 209490834903 of atm. It's also a story I share the least with anyone because I am violently protective of it.)

Start by writing random prompts you see floating around on tumblr. These are blurb stories that you don't need to spend longer than maybe 10 to 20 minutes on. They will never develop full plots because they are usually just a scene or some dialogue. If you follow a prompt blog like this there's a good chance that the other people who follow it will respond to you once in a while with comments. Its a good place to start because you aren't emotionally invested in it but it gives your writing muscles a work out.

Fight back against the anxiety that's telling you that your story is silly, that it won't be read, that it's not worth it with positive affirmations. My story is good. I'm doing my best work. It is worth sharing. I know there's a whole writing culture that likes to erase their previous fics or never talk about their old writing because they think they're embarrassing or bad. Maybe they are in comparison to where that writer is now, but at the time it was written, that was the best work they had ever done. Celebrate that rather than let it haunt you like a shame blanket.

To put my money where my mouth is, here's a sample of my oldest fanfic I still have access to:

"Something wrong, 'Geta?" "No." Vegeta snapped. "You never answered my question." "Oh," Goku said. He reached behind him to pick at his butt. "I was just," then he scratched the back of his neck. Behind him his tail was swishing merrily. "Sort of, I... Kind of. Well, you see, I might have... That is to say." "SPIT IT OUT ALREADY!" Vegeta screamed. "I wished that there could be more Saiyans."

(why yes, that is from a DBZ Vegeta/Goku Mpreg NC-17 fic)

I know this was long and I'm not sure you made it to the end. I want to encourage you to take the chance and put your work out there because it won't find an audience if you don't. But I also want you to know that if its not something you're comfortable with, and you do write it for yourself, and you keep it just for you that doesn't make you any less of a writer. Move at your own pace, do what you're comfortable with, and keep challenging yourself.

Thanks!

#writing advice #writing anxiety #writing help #writblr

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fallout-lou-begas · 4 years ago

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A lot of people have accused yjj of being racist, particarily in regards to one of their comics involving Joshua graham, and in general saying that they glorify colonization. I mainly understand the other things they’ve done, but the racism seems inexusable. A lot of people have also been saying that yjj and their followers have harassed people. I want to get both sides of the story on this, so basically I’m asking what the deal with all this is?

Hi, anon. I'll provide my thoughts since you asked politely.

This post is quite long and can be considered an extension of my previous post on the matter.

Besides the infamous and self-admittedly ill-informed chancla comic, for which they've apologized, essentially all of the claims that Yesjejunus is racist stem from their depiction of the Dead Horses and Sorrows relative to their depiction of Joshua Graham and their original character Joan in their fanfic No Light (and to a lesser extent Learnin’ the Blues), which is heavily grounded in the setting of Honest Hearts. I think it's unambiguous that the depiction of vaguely defined "tribals" in Honest Hearts, assembled through a mishmash of disparate signifiers and recycled stereotypes and named like Warrior Cats and completely helpless without Joshua Graham's guidance, is indeed thoroughly racist, even if it was intended to be more nuanced and came from a place of self-admitted ignorance on the part of the developers. What I struggle to understand is that the developers and writers of Honest Hearts—and of Fallout: New Vegas as a whole since the entire game is rife with such mishandled, insufficient depictions of "tribals" with no explicit inclusion at all of any specific Indigenous people or presence—are given miles and miles more sympathy and leeway for their poor handling of these characters in the source material than a fanfic writer is for using the tools and setting that they were given by that source material, including the "lore" and naming conventions of the Dead Horses and Sorrows, to tell a story that means a lot to them personally, inspired by their own deepest fears and experiences with abuse, and ignited by their charismatic yet deeply and blatantly monstrous interpretation of Joshua Graham. Given that it uses the setting of Honest Hearts as a backdrop, there aren't any living characters in Honest Hearts who aren't "tribals" besides Joshua Graham and Daniel, and post-canon, Daniel wouldn’t be there. When Yesjejunus is accused of sidelining the Native characters or relegating them to the background, it's because they're just not writing a fanfic about Follows-Chalk or Waking Cloud as main characters: they're writing a specifically intentioned story about the Courier and Joshua Graham, a story that for better or worse remains faithful to the source material’s depiction of Joshua Graham’s unilateral authority over the tribes in Zion, a baked-in element of Honest Hearts and a critical narrative component of No Light. To accuse Yesjejunus of being racist on this principle in and of itself would be like accusing me of being lesbophobic if I wrote a Dead Money-set fanfic with Father Elijah as the main character instead of Christine. If you want something that centers these other characters then you'd just have to read a different story, or write it yourself.

As a final note, I do think that Yesjejunus is a skilled writer. This thought exists simultaneously with the acknowledgement that like everyone else in fandom, they're writing as a hobby and do not have the oversight of an editor on the work that they produce personally and for free. It's not lost on them that there's things about their story that they could have handled differently or more sensitively, such as the oft-cited example of the death of the pregnant Dead Horse character in No Light, with more forethought or planning at the time—even if they were bound by the constraints of Honest Heart's own setting (such as the dearth of non-tribal characters who could have possibly been in the scene instead) while writing the story. Everyone is free to critique this aspect of the story as much as they are to critique any other aspect, or to be discomforted by the whole thing (given it's a very intentionally uncomfortable story throughout), but the suggestion of so many of these "callouts" that Yesjejunus must have been cackling maniacally about the plight of poor access to medical care among real Indigenous people is a suggestion made entirely in bad faith, and one that I simply don't care to entertain.

As for the point about harassing people: if anyone's only evidence of being "harassed" by a single, specific person is anonymous messages on tumblr dot com, then I don't believe the evidence. If people are accusing Yesjejunus' "supporters" or "associates" of harassing people, then if the accusation is that this harassment is occurring either on Yesjejunus’ behalf or otherwise with their approval, then it is also going to require more evidence than the mere existence of the mean anonymous messages themselves. This goes for the rumor that they have "spies" in fandom Discord servers or whatever, too, which is a rumor that I think has only manifested among its spreaders by either self-appointed individuals speaking on no one's behalf but their own, and by the metaphorical snake eating its own tail in paranoia. Yesjejunus, and I, and all of our mutual friends have been nothing but annoyed at best and horrified at worst by the efforts of some self-appointed individuals to "defend" them with such excess vitriol. Speaking plainly, we generally avoid literally any kind of anonymous or public interaction with anyone who's vocally opposed to us as a rule, specifically to avoid this kind of debacle, and when I say "we" and "us" I'm not referring to some sort of shadowy cabal of conspirators scheming to advance the nefarious YJJ agenda, but to a group of friends. I don't know how to explain to some people who question why we praise their work or share their art sometimes how normal friendships work online.

I also take severe umbrage with the validity of the breadth of these anonymous harassment accusations because of how patently fraudulent several other claims are. Yesjejunus has recently been accused of "grooming,” for example, an accusation only even worth considering if one temporarily forgets what grooming actually is and pretends that grooming is when someone older interacts in literally any capacity with someone younger. Some will say that they’re not accusing them of grooming per se, or not of grooming by that name, but in any case, the meaning is that Yesjejunus has interacted with minors and this on its own is intended to scare and upset you. I have seen only two users actually named as "victims" of these “interactions,’ however, sas-afras and comrade-shrimp, but both users have publicly refuted this accusation because neither of them were minors when they first interacted with Yesjejunus. Frustratingly, though, these literal refutations from the literal so-called "victims" are either dismissed out of hand or muddied by hand-wringing mutterings of "well, I could have sworn they were actually minors, though" and "well they claim that they weren't actually groomed, but who really knows." The spreading and trust in completely anonymous accusations, combined with the total rejection of statements from the only people named in these accusations when their statements contradict the accusations, suggests to me that the existence of these actual interactions (and assuming these interactions occurred both intentionally and with Yesjejunus’ being fully aware of the other person being a minor) is not nearly as important as pushing the narrative that "Yesjejunus is a groomer" or “preying on minors” onto the fandom, and ensuring that anyone who doesn't take this claim completely at face value appears complicit in something horrible. As for anyone who still feels "uncomfortable" at how sas-afras or comrade-shrimp or me or anyone who is very much an adult but just so happens to be younger than Yesjejunus could ever become endeared to them, I reiterate that sometimes I don't know how to explain to people how normal friendships work online.

I want to conclude by saying something that I've said many times before: you don't have to like Yesjejunus (or me, or everybody, or literally anyone else) and no one is holding a gun to your head to befriend them or read their work or look at their art. The block and filter and unfollow buttons are very conveniently located on your dashboard and are totally free to use. Everything I've written here is not intended as some argument as to why everyone on the planet needs to be following their blog and leaving kudos on Learnin' the Blues. Still, while I think everybody has the right to curate their own dashboard and remove the content that they don't want to see, I also think it's reasonable for me to not want my friend to get their name dragged through the mud by the exaggerated and misinformed claims of petty, grudge-bearing brigadiers and self-aggrandizing fandom security guards when they'd like to just dump funny shitposts about the Burned Man's chode in peace.

#asks #anon #yesjejunus #discourse

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itsclydebitches · 4 years ago

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I’m wlw. While, I’m not going to shame WLW members of the FNDM, bumblby pisses me off. V6 skipped development for both characters for the sake of “confirming” it, but I thought there scenes in V7 were cute. At first. Then it felt like RT dangling gay keys in front of my face. Now they’re attached to the hip while giving the het. ship (Renora) independence. Yang doesn’t care what Ruby thinks and only Blake was upset by her fall. What are your thoughts?

I’ve touched on their relationship quit a bit over the years, on and off, so I’ll try to summarize those big thoughts here:

I like the ship. I’ve always liked the ship. I’ve never been a die-hard fan like some, but as soon as I entered the fandom and realized they were a thing I went, “Oh yeah, I can see that. I’m on board!”

Which isn’t to say I’m always a fan of how people engage with them. It’s a fact that every major ship in any fandom is going to have its annoying, dramatic, and toxic elements. It’s also a fact that RWBY has developed a reputation for being particularly vitriolic. I think a lot of the hate towards Blake/Yang stems less from what we actually got in the canon and more from bad experiences from a small subset of fans. Not everyone. Not even the majority. But enough that casual fans, Blake/Sun fans, those who dislike the ship, etc. have reached a point where bmblb is a) so incredibly prominent and b) at times so heated that even a fellow shipper can grow frustrated at the state of the “RWBY” tag. This then bleeds into our reading of the canon material. After all, if you’re frustrated about seeing this pairing so often in fandom spaces and/or you’ve had a bad run-in with someone who ships them, seeing even more of them on Saturday will exacerbate those feelings.

This is a frustration that’s increased as the show still refuses to make the relationship canon. Crafting scenes each week where something semi-romantic occurs, but isn’t enough to confirm a relationship (like the forehead touch) creates a branching number of annoyances, from “Oh my god how is this still not canon” to “Here’s another week of the whole fandom claiming it is canon.” Those “dangling gay keys” are a problem both for those desperate to see the relationship confirmed because they love it and those desperate to see the relationship confirmed so the characters can begin focusing on other aspects of their identities. “Attached at the hip” feels too close to queer baiting for comfort while simultaneously too narrow a depiction of Blake and Yang. Surely they have concerns and relationships outside of each other.

I agree entirely that the relationship was rushed in some respects. However, there’s a post somewhere in the depths of my blog where I argue strongly that queer relationships should be allowed to be rushed, simply because so many het ships are too. I stand by that. I understand the frustration of moving from the two interacting primarily as teammates to suddenly holding hands, but that’s a gap that appears in many, many non-queer pairings. Jaune is a great example. Though we introduced Pyrrha’s interest in him from the get-go, he was running after Weiss for his whole time at Beacon, got a little closer to Pyrrha, she suddenly kissed him, and then... we’re meant to believe they were madly in love? His grief is certainly written in a way to imply as much. The cultural expectation of the guy losing the girl just fills in the rest, we didn’t actually see it on screen. So I both agree and disagree. I always want RWBY to be better written, but I also don’t want to hold our queer pairings to standards we don’t demand of the het ones. That way lies a lot of excuses for why it “can’t” ever happen. I’d rather have poorly written and rushed representation than no representation at all.

Agree entirely about there being a problem with Yang’s fall. Blake’s reaction was fine. The lack of reaction from everyone else was not. As I said in my recap, you can’t prove their love by taking love away from these other relationships. Making Ruby seemingly care less about her sister will not convince me that Blake cares a great deal. Though this is a problem RT has across the whole cast, tying into that “attached at the hip”ness. Characters tend to have one (1) relationship and that’s it. RT really struggles to write a cohesive group, instead creating a collection of duos that happen to inhabit the same space. I can see places where they’ve been trying to correct that this volume — Yang speaking to Ruby about Summer, Nora talking to the girls about Ren — but moments like Blake’s talk with Ruby really struggle. In that, these characters haven’t spoken in seven seasons, so all Blake has to say is a generic, ‘I believe in you’ that comes across as stilted and unpersuasive — we can see the writers trying to convince us that Ruby is The Best and that these girls have a relationship when they... don’t. And scenes like Yang’s fall show us that these underlying struggles are still at work. RT doesn’t know how to craft a scene where everyone reacts because Yang is a well-rounded person sporting a deep and unique relationship with three other teammates. They know how to craft a scene where the one (1) relationship takes centerstage and everyone else becomes cardboard cutouts.

As for renora’s independence, I need to side with RWBY on this one. The entire point of this arc is that Nora realized she is also attached at the hip and wants to do something about it. That’s a good thing! Whether or not RT actually manages to write a relationship where they’re together without being entirely co-dependent remains to be seen, but splitting them in this last episode was a good start. Similarly, the show did separate Blake and Yang for the majority of this volume and now may have separated Yang from the group for a significant length of time. That’s not the same thing as the girls realizing they need space like Nora did... but then, they aren’t in an acknowledged relationship like Nora is. I don’t think it’s fair to compare them when Yang and Blake haven’t even reached the point where they’re talking about their relationship, let alone what that looks like going forward, and therein lies my real criticism. In order to see the depth RT is trying to give to renora, they have to actually make bmblb canon first. It all comes back to that. The question of queerbaiting, how they find healthy boundaries, how they compare to other relationships in the show... there’s no real groundwork to discuss any of that until we can say, 100%, that they are, in fact, a couple.

#rwby #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 8 #mymetas #Anonymous

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