#assuming neurons are the same as “braincells” at least lmao

[imjustaf444keriguess]

the question was what need there is of endogenic alters if there’s no trauma.

ah, then my response is "i don't think there's a particular need, but brains do not always require a "need" to do something."

i think there's probably reasons why some people are prone to creating systems, and reasons why the brain is capable of creating other "selves", with and without trauma, but i'm not a psyschologist or neuroscientist or whatever. i don't personally study the brain.

i just hear people's experiences and see that people are more often than not honest. i also know that if systemhood was trauma exclusive, that would make it different than other experiences within and outside of disorder criteria, where there's more often than not some overlap between the general (non-disordered) population and the disordered population.

i am also aware of IFS, or "internal family systems", and the idea that everyone in some form has "parts", but with DID, those selves are more differentiated. i'm also aware of tulpamancy and other created system practices that seem to work for people, alongside spiritual practices that allow people without a disorder to talk to another "person", which would be similar to tulpamancy in actuality (at least, i assume, and that's what the scientists doing the tulpa brain scan study think and are studying right now).

i hold the position of "i think endogenic systems are real, and in order to believe otherwise, i'd have to be shown actual evidence that the experience of plurality is exclusive to trauma-based DID", which doesn't seem to be the position of the DSM or ICD. they give exclusions to those who may have a system or consider themselves multiple/plural but do not fit the disorder part of the criteria.

here is the ICD, where they use the same language for alters ("personality states") regardless of if they're DID members or not.

with the DSM, it has it as part of the criteria that the disturbance is not "normal" in things like cultural practices, religious practices, fantasy play, imaginary playmates, AND that it has to be clinically significantly distressing and cause impairment in important areas of functioning.

if it was exclusive to DID and there was no way that anyone could experience something similar to DID systemhood outside of trauma-based DID, then why would they need to say "well if you have these alternate self states but its spiritual or something and you're chill with it and its not causing you distress then this doesn't fit for you"?

maybe because the experience of multiplicity/plurality/systemhood can exist outside of DID, but DID is a disorder and the other symptoms (the forgetting things and impairment) are influenced or even caused directly by trauma, and if you have that plus the "selves" thing then that's probably a disorder?

dunno if im making any sense and i think after this i probably won't reply to you, but i think that trusting peoples words with subjective and personal experiences is kinda the bare minimum, unless i can prove that it's impossible. if it was physically impossible, it'd be provable. if it's not physically impossible, why are we arguing that they can't exist?

(also, unrelated to my main point, but yeah. people don't treat isolation as serious as they should. while i think "extreme" is not always applicable, there's very much extreme types of isolation, and even less extreme types of isolation can be traumatic and influence or worsen DID or other disorders. humans are inherently social creatures, socialization is like... one of the basic needs after stuff like eating and breathing and stuff. next to having a shelter and clothes. humans very quickly deteriorate if we don't have socialization or proper human interaction. it's why 2020 was traumatizing for many, and is probably gonna lead to some VERY fucked up teens and adults down the line. this is entirely unrelated to the syscourse but people treat it as not a big deal but it's a big deal. same with bullying, bullying is a form of abuse and can be traumatic. most people reading this hopefully agree tho but same kind of tangent.)

hey, reminder for all endogenic systems.

YOU ARENT FUCKING VALID AND YOU NEVER WILL BE VALID!

YA HEAR ME BITCHES OR DO I NEED TO SAY IT LOUDER?

YOU WILL NEVER BE VALID.

thank you.

-Gradient