#as well as using established villains such as Court of Owls and Penguin without making it appear like they were just starting out

[mattzerella-sticks]

So I think I know my main pain point about this 'Gotham Knights' show - it's not a Batman show.

However, from what I've been seeing and reading, it's being marketed as a Batman show...

Except it's not. It's a show about Gotham.

On one hand I get why they can't market it as a Gotham show because, looking at the cast descriptions available to the public, 2 of the main characters (Terry/Tommy/Tyler Wayne and Duela Dent) feel like characters that already exist but couldn't be used - Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. And the former is Batman's 'son' and investigating his murder, so technically it is a Batman show.

And when you think about that and ask "Well, why couldn't we get a series where a young Bruce Wayne gathers a group of teens to help solve his parents' murder, one of them being Selina Kyle?" You realize... thats already been done before. With Fox's Gotham.

And that's when it clicked that is the the CW's answer to Fox's Gotham and possibly the HBO Max series coming out soon about the Gotham PD from the Battinson verse.

Which then can explain why we're getting a new character who isn't one of the original Bat-sons, besides projects being developed with others in (i.e. potential Gotham Knights movie with first 3 robins and batgirl), every other established Wayne child already has a personality. Terry/Tommy/Tyler's personality is "Bruce Wayne". That's it. He's Bruce. He was invented so they could use Bruce without using Bruce.

That's not to say this is what the showrunners have planned officially, but it makes the most sense since they aren't using Damian or Duke - though I truly hope that's not the case. Because he should have his own personality, like Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, and Duke. It won't be fun if it's an obvious copy of Bruce.

Same as how Duela seems like a copy of Selina Kyle, to the point there's no value of having her be the Joker's daughter except for the tension (possibly romantic 🤢) between her working with Batman's son. Or, God forbid, we find out she really did kill Bruce but it was an accident (robbery gone wrong, and either she kept it a secret until now or forced herself to forget and it was covered up).

They could've used wholly separate characters that had no relation to Bruce or Joker but are interested in solving the mystery of Bruce's death and then discover he's Batman. Gotham Academy came to mind at first but another group, recently created and with no history either, would've been the Brat Pack from Titans Academy - three orphans who solve mysteries, one of which was injected with ManBat serum so he's part bat. Why couldn't we have them instead of Tyler/Terry/Tommy Wayne and Duela!

Which is why the most exciting element, to me, in this show are Carrie, Cullen, Harvey and Harper since there are established expectations that I'm looking forward to see being brought to the live screen.

But I don't want to see Two-Face's creation because, again, this falls into the idea that this is a show similar to Fox's Gotham where we are seeing how villains in Gotham established themselves before Batman hit the scene, and played with the argument that "oh, Batman only made things worse because people dressed up in response" by going "actually, these people were getting progressively worse and cartoonish, Batman came on the scene after". I would rather, if we are getting Harvey and not Two-Face, at least have recognition and history that Harvey was once Two-Face, and this is set some time after he has reformed and 'earned back Gotham's trust' then it be like Two-Face hadn't existed yet. Mainly because, if this is a show about legacy and inheritance, they should lean from an earlier model for the show - Batman Beyond - and give the new Bat-Son a new rogue's gallery inspired by predecessors (like the gang of Jokers or that crew), as well as original enemies (like Gotham did with Fish Mooney for Gordon and BB's Doctor Phosphorus and Inque). So far, the only villain we are aware exists in this show is the Joker which... of course. Any others? Not that I'm aware of. If this is Harvey Dent, then we know Two-Face isn't.

Plus it'd be more interesting if this was a reformed Harvey instead of a fresh Harvey, just because it gives us an interesting, not seen as much characterization of the character.

TL;DR I am grappling with being excited for Gotham Knights and being annoyed with it because, while I'm excited for most of the main cast, the way this story goes and choices that were made and can still be made might ruin it - and I've been burned too many times before so I don't have high hopes