#anyway i think winsync is the tag for that??? right??????

[theythemsam]

Winsync, Season 1: 1x01, 1x07, 1x10, 1x13, 1x16, 1x17, 1x19, 1x21

[elizabethrobertajones]

So I saw that gifset of Kripke's commentary on that season 3 episode (I'm a newbie watcher but I started the new season and and slowly working my way through!) and I guess I'm a little confused? Kripke is basically saying "yeah Dean really wants that apple pie life" and when I've been going through and reading people's meta, I've seen a lot of people's opinion (especially season 6 metas) that kind of disagree and that Dean really doesn't want that suburban life. Any opinions? Thanks much :-)

Heya!

https://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/162713109665/sensitivehandsomeactionman-eric-kripke-on

Oh! Yeah, I reblogged this with the sense of irony about what Kripke was saying in place that you get from being a long-time watcher or deeply embedded in the meta community :P (I should have a /irony tag I use for the benefit of people knowing I’m thinking deep dark shade at whatever I’m reblogging but you know not in a mean way just in a this goes way deeper than what it looks like to me but maybe I just don’t feel like commenting right now :P)

I can’t remember if I have a Dean x Lisa tag that’s actually well-kept except for cute gifsets but 3x02 and 3x10 probably have a fair amount of discussion about it if you want to dig deeper… But I have literally just watched Dean’s conversation with Rufus in 3x15 which reminds me that this was a season-long arc, and 3x10 was a weird little part of it… 3x02 sets up that Dean has a sort of wistfulness for what he COULD have had, and 3x10 and 3x12 (and all these are Gamble-related episodes) have stuff about Dean yearning - this bit and the conversation with Victor where he makes it blatantly obvious that even with Sam he has a sense that he might want more from life and he is not currently getting it - Victor’s comparison of ex-wives and empty apartments is paralleled to Dean’s feelings. And in 3x15 Rufus warns him that this is what he has to look forward to becoming if he survives. (In 12x14 we had a parallel where Ketch buys his way in the door the same way Dean buys his way in the door with Rufus & scotch, but it was subverted in so many ways, it just seemed like the BMoL had sketchy intel you might be able to buy Dean this way.)

Anyway, by the end of the season the message is quite clear that Dean sort of years for it but can’t have it and in many ways has chosen this life of saving people over it. Though he’s dying for Sam, and never un-wishes that or can even think of it, from about the midpoint of the season he wants to find a way to break the deal but I think a lot of that is driven by not wanting to be a demon rather than wanting to grow old, since becoming a demon will pretty quickly undo all the good work Dean did saving people, he’d have to assume. 3x09 gives him any motivation to fight rather than cheerfully stroll off to Hell because Sam’s alive and that’s all that matters, you know?

I think in the context of season 3 the Lisa stuff was pretty interesting because I think Dean can have a contradictory yearning but Lisa is a ghost of an idea, literally where she fizzles out of the dream in the same way ghosts disappear, and to feel wedded to the hunter lifestyle and in many ways he’s been rejecting it from the start… In 1x08 (Bugs) especially he’s making a point about beeing skeeved out by suburbia and the idea of living SUCH a normal life. In 2x20 we see him as a civilian and he enjoys it for a day or two to hang out with Mary and Sam and Jess, and I’ve written a LOT on the over-lap of Carmen in that episode and Lisa in 6x01 since they’re connected by djinn dreams and I feel like the message is his year with Lisa was emotionally/functionally practically the same to Dean as if he’d been strung up in a warehouse the whole time. (That’s something in my 6x01 tag or 2x20 depending which you feel like scrolling through :P Sorry, I’m kind of in advanced brain bleeh from sitting in a noisy room so you can get surface brain rambling to answer this but no research or links in this state >.>) 

Anyway in 2x20 he unequivocally rejects the civilian life because people died without him doing his job, even though he called Carmen “the One” and everything else seemed fixable or exciting to him, including his relationship with Sam. It was after discovering he’d “un-wished” all their work as hunters he angrily appealed to John about why it was his job, before stomping off to find and kill the djinn, and un-make his wish, assuming at this point it was a wish and not a dream. (I still call it a wish-verse sometimes because of how DEAN analysed it and I find it FASCINATING to look at that way when it comes to these decisions, while I’d just call it the djinn dream when looking at it from another angle). 

I suppose Lisa comes not long after but he goes to see her as part of a farewell tour revisiting the best hookup of his life, and ends up smacked with the potential he’s mission out on of raising a kid and all that - a long-term investment he can’t get involved in for one year (do you feel the knife turning :P) because that’s not fair on them and offers them no long-term stability. He CAN’T make a home when he has a 1 year demon deal weighing on him, so the episode is just there to psychologically torture him. I think he never dreamed of suburbia before Lisa in 3x02 but by 3x10 we can see he took some unexpected emotionally scarring just from being told he CAN’T have something. Because posing the question opens up “what if”s (this incidentally is my entire rationale when you boil it down for why the male siren proves Dean’s bi :P). Dean had a moment to seriously imagine a NICE life where he would be with Lisa and have Ben as a son and it’s impossible for he can even start to have it. And in 3x15 Rufus confirms that even if Dean survives (or comes back from Hell as it turns out), being a crotchety old hunter who only opens his door to people if they show up with nice Scotch is about as much as he can hope to look forward to.

I think that’s a bad message too but it gels more with Dean’s outlook and experiences and I think helps him shut away the feelings he could ever have had more or that he was being unfairly denied, in a combination of personal choices to hunt/seeing the benefits of doing it over a normal life, and pessimism about his lifespan or what they can reasonably expect from their lives. In 5x18 he tells Lisa that when he thinks of himself being happy it’s with her, because of the scarring I mentioned that 3x02 specifically denies him this endgame and leaves an impression of it in his psyche as the Thing Dean Can’t Have, but DOES turn into a nice thought to hold onto as a what if. And Sam tells him to go for it and he does, and by the end of season 6 it’s a “never mention this again or I’ll kill you” situation and Dean doesn’t think about endgame out loud for like 5 more years until season 10, and the question is slooowly reintroduced through hesitant confessions and car conversations and meeting a pair of married hunters at a bar one day, to finally get the idea that while Dean’s unequivocally written off suburbia, wife & kids, there’s other things he could get out of life to make him happy and feel less like Victor or Rufus, dark mirrors of his present and future, like the ghosts of endgame visiting a long-term-relationship Scrooge :P 

But yeah Kripke saying that Dean secretly has a romantic soft spot for the normal life and fluffy romance, personified in this case by Lisa, is really because he’s talking compare and contrast to Sam. He says Sam isn’t interested in Bela that way really, he’s just horny and they know no women really so… that happened. (I side-eye but whatever, different discussion :P) and that’s in contrast to Sam’s supposed sweet and nerdy surface layer, while Dean’s got the macho horndog outer layer so Kripke’s explaining in 1 go performing!Dean (and Sam) and that Sam n Dean are yin and yang to each other (which, again, in Baby, we have that great shot of them in red and blue contrasting colours, sleeping top & tail in the Impala from above that demonstrates this… Can’t tell if you’ve seen season 11 actually or joined in season 12 (oops apologies for those spoilers too, I tried to keep them super vague and if you’ve seen season 12 you sort of know where it led to >.>) but this is what it looked like:

from a meta POV it’s absolutely one of my favourite shots of Sam and Dean in the entire show. Anyway it’s visually demonstrating the same thing Kripke is saying in that commentary. Sam presents one way so they write Dean presenting in the absolute opposite way, and then choose to subvert both presented faces with an image each to absolutely destroy that image and show something deep underneath. From the way he was talking it sounded like they thought the Bela thing first so the Lisa thing might literally just have been a part of it because it was amusing to them to do that with Sam, and the rule is absolutely probably 1st thing in their character bible to always make Sam and Dean at odds with each other even if it’s in some innocent visual/character demonstration.

(This is why I hate Buckleming writing btw - they’ve been increasingly writing Sam and Dean as an utterly unified unit who think and breathe on the same wavelength and it drives me nuts because that is not their dynamic at all no matter how fan favourite “winsync” is (which is of course a totally different thing to do with them working well together meta-textually as actors and in the text as kids raised closely together, and who also have worked together for most of/their entire adult lives so of course they naturally move and talk together sometimes - I can be in sync with my twin and we have core personality overlap but we’re also utterly different people in extremely obvious ways e.g. quiet vs chatty - guess which :P)… In Buckleming’s hands it just means they can use Sam and Dean to alternately deliver exposition in lengthy talking scenes as if they’re one character, and that exposition to Mick in 12x17 when he “Hello boys” them in the Bunker was one of their worst incidents so far >.>)

Anyway, I don’t think that makes the Lisa thing insincere especially as it sounds like 3x10 more than 3x02 actually cemented her as Dean’s imaginary choice of perfect dream girl to fill the space Carmen the El Sol ad lady previously held, when it came to the writing. 3x02 stand alone is good to torment Dean as a “Hahahaha you will never have this” but 3x10 builds on it and shows them being intuitive to the character and things that make sense to write him… And I think from the very start they were aware of the contradiction and that Dean might sort of have a soft spot/dream of the normal apple pie life but that he was also at the same time profoundly aware of all the ways in which he hadn’t chosen it, it wasn’t his life, and there were abundant reasons he wasn’t having it and even in the same core places this dream resides, didn’t want it. If you go deep in my 3x02/2x20/6x01 Lisa x Dean metas (again, sorry, I’ll add tags to this post at least :P) you’ll probably find the post I made collecting my rewatch notes as I discovered this subtextual story through the season, realised where it all came from later, and by the end of the season realised that they knew and had talked themselves out of it being something Dean could have because the subtext took the same route as the actual Dean and Lisa arc in season 6, probably because Gamble helped craft the entire thing in season 3 and then brought Lisa back for season 6 and had a whole season to play the entire thing over again. So I feel like that suggests Dean talked himself out of it too with Rufus and Victor’s help, and fundamentally never changed track even with season 5 & 6′s Lisa stuff, because that closed the book on it so hard we have this parallel to Dean and Rufus in 12x14 and the idea he can have something more with a hunter maybe or ~someone in the life~ is now the subtext under that in the same way Kripke talked about him having this squishy interior to do with Lisa back in season 3.