#anyway i just feel like some shippers these days need so much validation from random strangers online & it’s so exhausting

[cactihut]

tumblr is the only place where people who ship canon relationships will suddenly pick up a victim complex about people online “being mean” to them after a show ended SIXTEEN YEARS AGO

[beyondd-dazedd]

EPISODE👏 REVIEW👏 hsmtmts season 2 episode 10: get ready for some enthusiastic writing and a little too much looking into details

first off seb doing the intro made my heart happy i love him

ok i know everyone has been saying it but there is no way in hell they’re winning the menkies. unless the writers just go with the main character favoritism route, there’s just no way. however for the sake of comedy, watching ashlyn give us everything in the transformation scene and ricky being an absolute disaster is SO funny to me. like shout out to joshua because that scene made me laugh so hard. also a trio i need more of is kourt, red and ej. i just feel like they would be dramatic gossipy bitches and i love that for them.

normally i think ms. jenn’s reactions are over the top but after seeing the shit show that just occurred 2 mins before... i think her reaction is very valid because oh god.

continuing with the theme of friendship dynamics we haven’t seen a lot of but we absolutely need more of, ashlyn and ricky!! that scene was so sweet and wholesome. i’m so so so glad the writers didn’t fall into the trap of making characters take sides after a break up. i just feel like it’s been done a million times before. but seeing ashlyn being so genuine when checking up in ricky made me so happy. the caswells remain being the superior characters (including gina obvs)

ms. jenn and mr. mazzarra are cute don’t get me wrong but they should’ve spent more time developing that relationship instead giving ms. jenn like 3 random love interests and that’s all i’ll say on that.

i love imagining what characters are saying when they’re just ad libbing. like what could ej, gina, ricky and red be talking about before carlos shows up to start the scene?? my guess is they’re all gushing about how amazing ash is and no i don’t take criticisms on that.

alright i’ll say it. the seblos drama is weak at best. they didn’t spend enough time developing it and kind of pushed it to the background so when it was one of the main focuses of the episode it was kind of like ok?? HOWEVER i did love the resolution to it and the deeper look into their individual characters. (i’ll talk more about this later)

carlos calling ms. jenn mother and everyone immediately knowing who he was talking about sent me omfg. but also who the fuck let these high schoolers try to figure out this transformation scene by themselves?? they collectively have 2 brain cells and they just bounce around between the 9 of them depending on the scene. but playful sleepover competition!! also gina nudging ej when he goes a little too ej 1.0 was everything.

i hate lily and i love sassy red. that’s all.

(im going to talk about the boys/girls sleepovers like they’re each one continuous scene respectively because it’s way easier than switching back and forth)

fun new friendship dynamics!! the boys!! sebbie and the girls! iconic. i know that the show is meant to be in a mockumentary style so we only see parts of the characters lives but i would give my left arm to see the boys getting closer and becoming friends. this is also the first scene where i really noticed ricky’s shirt. ricky is queer disney are just cowards. i’m not a big ricky/ ej shipper but the pretty boy had me feeling some type of way. carlos being worried about seb and their relationship and then red being like well this is why. bc he’s got a spy on the inside was peak friendship. but seriously disney?? just say gay. it’s not a bad word. now imma freak out about PORTWELL OMFG I WAS ALREADY FREAKING OUT DURING THIS SCENE SO YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW WELL I WAS DOING LATER ON. but ej just being like im not ready to put myself out there because of nini i don’t wanna get rejected... again. my heart went out to him. you can really see how much he’s grown as a person. but sure ej y’all are “buddies” also him saying the one thing i’m proud of from my time with nini was letting her go and ricky’s reaction to that hurt me to my core.

alright let’s talk about the girls and seb. first off i love that they’re actually working and the boys are doing fuck all LOL. seb actually talking about how he feels?? good for him. i hate that he thinks that carlos is only with him because there’s limited options but at least he’s talking about it. a moment of silence for ash’s scissor bucket (i won’t make a gay joke. i won’t make a gay joke. i won’t-) anyways... i really thought that maybe ash would know about portwell but it’s fucking EVERYONE. like y’all are that perceptive about other peoples relationships but not your own?? that’s why all y’all have relationship drama. gina not wanting to put herself out there because she’s afraid of getting hurt?? ouch. gina thinking ej is just being nice?? ouch but also gina, sis?? what. also nini reacting that way to the chocolates is so out of pocket. like 1) y’all aren’t dating anymore so what’s got you so pressed? 2) gina made it clear that they weren’t actually from ricky 3) nini you know they had some sort of chemistry before you and ricky got back together so this really shouldn’t be that surprising.

anyways the scene with ricky and carlos broke me. the decision for ricky to not show nini the song was so mature. despite wanting to get her back, he KNOWS that that would only drag her back and that’s not fair to her and he knows it. but his awareness of seblos’s relationship and wanting to help carlos work things out with seb was so wholesome and so sweet and is kind of a big moment of character development for him this season. like he was generally very selfish this season (again i’m a ricky apologist til the day i die but he was so selfish) and seeing him take the focus away from his problems to help carlos out was so sweet. also i need more ricky/carlos friendship moments.

kourt talking about howie learning her love language?? bitch you mean espionage?? i mean me too but that’s so fucking funny

ALRIGHT THIS IS THE PARAGRAPH WHERE I SCREAM ABOUT PORTWELL!!! i am so so so so happy right now about this. the fact that ej asked about risotto but for real was so satisfying and was blatantly like him saying i know we faked being in a relationship but what about it not being fake and omfg that’s so amazing. also gina being skeptical and asking if ash put him up to it and him saying not that i know of?? THE PARALLELS?? also gina this whole season has been talking about signs and finding reasons to stay, finding signs to know if someone is right for her and you can literally see the moment she realizes she said the same thing about the duke sweatshirt to jack. SHE KNOWS THIS IS HER SIGN and that’s so special to me. also ej’s nervous laugh after she says yes?? omfg. let’s look at ej’s character. historically he’s confident, cocky and generally puts on this facade of having his shit together but gina makes him nervous (in a good way). he doesn’t feel like he has to pretend to be confident around her. he’s showing her that he’s just as nervous as she is about this and that is just *chefs kiss* honestly not to be an andi mack stan but ej’s little nervous chuckle and ok after she says yes sounds like he’s letting out a breath he didn’t realize he was holding which seriously parallels tj after the tyrus confession. i’m just saying. ALSO GINA’S LITTLE EXCITED WALK BACK TO THE GROUP AHHHHHH

the seblos song?? i have no notes. it was incredible. frankie killed that shit. it was such a good song. so sweet. so wholesome. also ricky and carlos’s hug was so fucking meaningful to both of them and you can tell. ricky was absolutely beaming because he helped the two of them and it feels like a little bit of season 1 ricky shining through.

WHO THE FUCK LET A BUNCH OF HIGH SCHOOLERS RIG A KID IN THE AIR COMPLETELY UNSUPERVISED?? of course ricky fucking fell. that group shares 2 brain cells. obviously some dumb shit was going to happen

[saltpepperbeard]

Okay I’m officially back on my Joshifer bullshit thanks to you lmao. What are your thoughts on all the drama surrounding JH and CT? Do you think she’s the reason Joshifer never came out and admitted they were dating? Or was it because of JL and NH? I figure it’s been long enough that you can talk about it freely without starting the Discourse™️. Feel free to ignore this though if you think otherwise, I don’t want you to get any hate lol.

I feel like my blog should come with a disclaimer honestly. Like, CAUTION: CHANCE TO GET BACK ON YOUR JOSHIFER BULLSHIT UPON VISITING lol. But oooh goodness we’re spilling tea of THAT caliber, huh anon? I don’t mind talking about it at all these days though. Because yeah, I believe we’re definitely out of the shipping war/Discourse™️ days, and I’ve also reached the level of Fandom Veteran where I just…No longer Give A Care lmao. TOO TIRED TO CARE.

But BECAUSE I have a tendency to get ramble-y, let’s go beneath the cut~

Okay so first off, I’ll start out with my honest thoughts on Joshifer, and what I think they had and/or what happened between them. The thing I lean towards the most is that they messed around at Hawaii. I think it’s the most likely thing, given that they were both young, pretty newly single, and alone on that island together. And looking at all the BTS footage, plus every promo that followed? Come on now. And maybe it wasn’t sex necessarily. But at LEAST making out/heavy petting or SOMETHING, my dude. I WANT TO BELIEVE lol.

So, what I LIKE to think happened is that Jen and Josh messed around/had sex/attempted to get into a relationship during the filming of Catching Fire filming somewhere. But in the midst of that, Jen got a little too scared with the whole idea, and ended up breaking things off to eventually go back to Nick. Which, in turn, hurt Josh enough to attempt to mend his wounds by starting a new relationship with Claudia that following summer.

And then that’s where things get…ROCKY lol. Because back in the day, I definitely used to think that Joshifer’s story didn’t end there. I thought that, somewhere down the line, they had to start messing around again or dating in secret, because there were some pretty eyebrow-raising events that took place.

The two ones that instantly jump to my mind are of course, Cannes and the MJ1 Promo. And hell, even MJ2 promo honestly. Cannes because of Jen giving Josh a LAPDANCE and the two of them leaving the party BY THEMSELVES, TOGETHER, “INTO THE NIGHT.” Mockingjay Part One because of them both contracting strep throat, but no one else in the cast/crew seemed to get it. And Mockingjay Part Two because of all those random kisses/bouts of physical affection.

Bruh, I was just CONVINCED that they were going to come out as a couple following the wrap of Mockingjay Part 2. I really really was. But then…they never did. They both seemed to go quite separate ways for that matter. So that’s left my mind to kind of shift a bit and to start questioning things.

Because, almost all throughout the Mockingjay Promos, both Josh and Jen were linked to relationships. Jen with Nick for a bit, and then Chris Martin for a bit, and Josh with Claudia (See I’m to the point where I don’t mind dropping names lol FIGHT ME). So like…BACK IN THE DAY X2 lol, I thought that they were just “cover up” relationships. Or PR relationships, if you will. I kind of hopped aboard that bandwagon because of how CONVINCING Joshifer seemed.

That, and Josh’s relationship with Claudia and Jen’s relationship with Chris just seemed…weird lmao. They didn’t seem anything like what I was seeing during promo with Josh and Jen. So that made me even more convinced that I was on the right track.

But then Jen broke it off with Chris only to move on to Darren, and then to Cooke, and Josh remained with Claudia. The ship I was nearly certain was going to take off never did. So it left me reevaluating tbh.

It made me think that Josh and Claudia had to be an actual relationship. Because, come on lol, there’s no way. Why the hell would he stay with her for six years now, for anything other than…a relationship? Because Paradise Lost lmao; who is she? We don’t know her. It never even made waves in the states at all. And that was FOREVER ago. Josh was never even that big of an actor to really properly “stunt” in my opinion anyway. That seems to be reserved more for the actors who are really on the media’s current radar. The talk of the town lmao.

BUT, that doesn’t mean I’m 100% a fan of them. Because I’m not. Never have been lol. And nor do I really like how they’ve presented their relationship. I’ve definitely seen enough sketchy stuff to make me wrinkle my nose. Which is the drama you were referring to I imagine lol. Claudia using Josh for her career’s benefit, their friends using him for their benefit, yada yada. Idk, once I kind of realized Joshifer wasn’t going to be an immediate thing, and once I kind of stepped away from Josh (which is a whole DIFFERENT story in itself lol), I just…really never jumped into that drama/cared about it at all.

AND, despite talking to a few different people about it, I feel like I never really gathered enough information to really formulate proper opinions on it. AND X2, I kind of realized that hey, these are actual people and we really don’t know what’s going on behind the surface level stuff we’re seeing. We could be 100% right, but we COULD be 100% wrong. So I just kind of stayed out of it, sighed whenever Josh was in Spain or she in the States, and just kind of moved on.

Same thing goes for Jen and Nick. Saying his name makes me shudder, but I think that’s only a self-inflicted gunshot wound lmao; THANKS, TWAAL. I had a lot of issues with him, but I think they were mostly…fandom driven? Like, it was one of those “I don’t like you because you’re interfering with my OTP and because your fandom hates mine” kind of dealios. I really didn’t have any VALID reasons to dislike him at all lmao.

People will say otherwise. I know a lot of Veteran Joshifer Shippers think that relationship was ENTIRELY fake/PR driven too. I can’t say I entirely agree? But again, it’s practically the same thing as my thoughts with Josh and Claudia. I didn’t dive that deep into things regarding that relationship, so I really know nothing, and so I REALLY can’t form a proper opinion.

*Wheeze* SO lol. Where does that leave me now. Well, since things did not go the way I and probably a lot of other people anticipated, I’ve just been…confused? Like yeah, there were things that I DEFINITELY thought were indicative of a possible fling/relationship. But Josh and Jen were with other people…? It seemed so so SO real, but then they moved tf on?

So yeah, I really don’t know what happened at all. I can’t prove anything. Josh and Jen genuinely could have been just friends all throughout promo, hence why they have nothing to tell. Or, they could have genuinely fucked all through promo, and their relationships WERE just indeed PR cover ups at the time. It’s literally impossible to say for certain.

I think if anything did happen though, it’s probably way too soon to tell. Especially with Jen in a rather new and very serious relationship now, and Josh still in the relationship that he was in all throughout promo. I feel like if something did happen, they’d probably open up about it like, a decade or maybe even more down the line. Or who knows, maybe it’ll be their little secret, and our little speculation.

Like, the both of them definitely don’t need anything “cheating scandals” or anything like that running rampant with their current situations. So yeah, if there was something, we likely won’t hear of it for a while, if…ever.

Which Goddddd gets my GOAT lmao. Still bitter to this day. And still can’t fathom what happened between those two. Because I was rooting for them so very hard, anon. I think everyone was at a point. There was just so much RIDICULOUS shipping fuel between them.

And I think for that reason, I’m always going to be rooting for them in one way or another. They’re the equivalency of a “first love” for me lol. Like, I’ll always always remember what I saw between them/have a soft spot for them regardless. And I’ll definitely ALWAYS have fingers crossed for ANY tidbits.

[hannah-deserved-better]

Why Castiel/Hannah should be a more mainstream ship

This is going to be a long essay, but I need to say it. For those of you who follow me, I’ve said a lot of the same things before, but I think it's finally time to address the naysayers head-on.

Now, before I continue, and before people accuse me of attacking their ship, that’s not what I am trying to do. Yes, Destiel shippers irritate me sometimes, but it’s not the ship itself that annoys me, it's the toxic haters that make up the ranks of that ship. You know who you are. I have every respect for Destiel, Megstiel, and any other ship, really. Just because I personally don’t ship it doesn’t mean I disrespect or hate on it.

But I also think that it's time that my ship also gets the recognition it deserves. And it’s time that Hannah, as a character, gets the respect she deserves. I am always disappointed by how little credit she gets from the fans, I am continually seeing mood boards, aesthetics, collages commemorating the women of Supernatural, or the angels of Supernatural and Hannah is regularly absent from these boards. And she deserves way more than to be forgotten.

I hope that, with the show coming to an end, people who plan to rewatch the show through will remember her and give her a chance to shine.

To illustrate why I think that Hanstiel should be counted among the more popular ships that in involve Castiel, I’d like to debunk the top 10 arguments I have had thrown in my direction by people who think they can bully me away from loving Hannah and Hanstiel.

But they are literal siblings!

Ugh. This argument. Okay if that’s what you think, fine, that’s your opinion, but you need to realize that this is up to personal interpretation. Yes, the angels consider themselves siblings, but it’s evident that the SPN writers don’t necessarily consider this a literal thing because there are a few incidents of angel pairings. Daniel and Adina, fallen angels, were clearly lovers. Also, if Chuck created angels, he also created humanity, but do you consider some random Human on the street your sibling? This is really an old argument, and it doesn’t hold much stock, but it's really up to personal belief about the show. You can’t force your views about this on me, and you can’t try to persuade me your opinion is right because it is just that- your opinion. Mine is valid too.

Also, a side note. If you ship Wincest but pull this ‘angels are siblings’ card, then you are a hypocrite.

But Caroline Johnson was married!

And? So was Jimmy Novak. Are you trying to imply that because Caroline was a woman, she needed to return to her husband any more than Jimmy Novak needed to return to his wife? This argument reeks of misogyny.

Hannah abandoned Castiel when she found out about his borrowed grace.

Yes, she did. But think about it from her point of view, she had this unwavering trust in Castiel as her leader and what he did was considered abhorrent to her and her fellow angels. Finding this out from Metatron instead of Castiel himself was no doubt a shock to her, and it left her scrambling to figure out how to reconcile this blow to her faith in him. And this doubt didn’t last long, as soon as she realized what was going on, she went right back to him and resumed her unwavering trust in him.

Hannah tried to tell Castiel to kill Dean

Again, see it from her point. She was trying to grasp and process what she had just learned. And she knew that angels were blowing themselves up in Castiel’s name. She didn’t want to believe it was true and she needed something to cling to. She doesn’t know the Winchesters, as well as Castiel, does, she has no reason to trust them, and she doesn’t understand the bond Castiel has with them.

Hannah tortured Castiel in season 11

No, Ephraim and Jonah tortured him. And even though it was revealed that Hannah was in on it, it also clear that she was pressured into it. Just look at how Ephraim and Jonah talk to her, they were very disrespectful to her, and it was clear this was their idea. And whatever part she played in this, she protested it, and in the end, she fought and died saving Castiel. She literally gave her life for him.

It’s Hannah’s fault Gadreel committed suicide!

No, it's not. Hannah came down to the prison, and it's clear she wanted to try to understand Castiel’s stance. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t have been down there in the first place. Castiel and Gadreel didn’t need a guard. She was trying to sort it all out, and Gadreel acted impulsively.

Hannah is hot-tempered and impulsive

Hell yeah, she is. She tried to attack Tessa when Tessa called her weak, and she totally started the fight with Adina. Oh, and we can’t forget how she smashed Metatron’s face into the bars for making a sexual remark towards her. But that’s all what makes her an awesome character. She has flaws. As a writer myself, I can tell you that perfect Polly's are no fun at all. Hannah had depth, she was complicated. She was brave and badass, but she certainly had apparent flaws. Besides, are you trying to tell me the Winchesters don’t have flaws? Hannah is badass.

Hannah was obviously meant to be Castiel’s love interest

Yeah, she probably was, but I mean so? Can’t Castiel have a little happiness in his life? Besides, she wasn’t just that. She was his second in command, she was a leader in her own right. She even led heaven! She wasn’t only Castiel’s love interest, she was amazing in her own right.

If you don’t ship Destiel, then you are a homophobe!

First of all, I am a bisexual woman. I am allowed to be attracted to both men and women, and it’s obvious that I am crazy about Hannah. Also, it's okay for me to prefer het relationships. I happen to be married to a man. I am generally attracted to what I can relate to, and there should be no shame in that. In any case, I don’t need to justify my interests to you. And anyway, you do know that Hannah took a male vessel at the end right? And that Castiel took a female vessel in the past?

Castiel obviously loves Dean!

Okay. Like I said, I respect all ships. But you are going to have to come to terms that in addition to Dean and Sam, Castiel also loved Meg and Hannah. He may have even harbored feelings for Kelly Kline. Since none of those ships became completely canon, we the fans, must interpret what we will about it. I don’t ship Destiel, Megstiel, or Castiel/Kelly Kline but I respect that Castiel may or may not have feelings for any one of them in canon. The world may never know if this was so. Chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. I could see clear signs that Castiel had feelings for Hannah, and I can document such signs, but that’s what fiction is. It’s something that’s not real in the first place so we the fans are free to interpret what we see as we will.

And here are some points I want to make as to why Hannah is amazing and why she is precisely what Castiel needed.

Hannah is the kind of rare angel that Gabriel was talking about back in season 9. The type that is more than a machine built to obey

Hannah has empathy. She is a rather passionate angel. This is her strength and her inner struggle. She is an angel, bound by her instincts to obey and stuck in her strict principles of angel code, but it's pretty clear that she doesn’t obey without question. In many ways, she is a lot like Castiel was in season 4, but unlike Castiel, she seems to have had these feelings all along. Castiel had to learn them. In “meta-fiction,” Gabriel claimed that he and Castiel were rebels because they were different than other angels. And I think that Hannah was another one of those rare ones, with the potential to understand free will.

She never once brought up Castiel’s past nor never appeared to resent him or hold a grudge against him or feared him for what he did to heaven

All throughout season nine, when Castiel was without grace, whenever he encountered another angel, they were quick to blame him for the fall. They actively hated him or even feared him. Some even tried to kill him. Many still resented him for the war with Raphael. Pretty much all the angels Castiel encountered harbored these feelings towards him, but when Castiel met Hannah in that warehouse, she lacked that resentment. She had just been tortured by Gadreel and left in a room full of dead angels, and when she met Castiel, she knew who he was. She never once brought up the war with Raphael, or even the fall, something she herself was a victim of and was no doubt traumatized by. She never feared or hated Castiel.

She was devoted to him in a way that no one in the show has ever been

Castiel really needs someone who could devote themselves to him the way that he would devote himself to them in return. Hannah fits the bill. She listened to him when he taught her about humanity. I mean, really listened. And throughout their road trip, she was more concerned with trying to help with Castiel’s fading grace than she was with her mission. His suffering and deterioration clearly bothered her. Even though she acted on impulse many times, she’d listen to him as he explained why things are the way they are here on Earth.

She was even willing to make a deal with Metatron

This one is a big one because it proves that Hannah is like a Winchester! How many times has Sam or Dean made a deal to save one another? They would pick each other over the world any day. And has either of them ever made that sacrifice for Castiel? Well, Hannah was going to. She knew full well the possible consequences of letting Metatron out, but she was willing to do it to save Castiel’s life. If he hadn’t gotten there, she would have. I think it was a surprise to Castiel because no one has ever cared about him like that.

She literally begged him to take care of himself

It’s clear that Hannah had feelings for Castiel, and they motivated her to be concerned with. Maybe Castiel was uncomfortable with her affections because he’s not used to someone being concerned with his well being? Which is really sad if you think about it. Regardless of her feelings for him, Hannah was concerned that Castiel wasn’t taking care of himself. She begged him to try to save his own life or to at least be as concerned about it as she was. And he continued to blow her off and dismiss her, probably because poor Castiel does not value his own life. If he did, then he would at least be willing to try to work with her to find a plan to save himself instead of literally having to have the king of hell step in to save them both.

Castiel trusted Hannah enough to implore her to carry on in his place if he died.

When it became clear that Castiel may not make it to carry out his mission, to help Dean or to find the rogue angels, when Hannah confronted him and implored him to do something about his grace, even reminding him of his mission, he asked her to carry on in his place. She doesn’t think she could do it, but he did. He trusted her, he saw something in her that she didn’t see herself. He believed in her and thought that she was more than worthy of taking his place if he died. That right there is huge.

She is one of the very few angels to ever give up her vessel, and her actions inspired Castiel so much that he decided to look into Claire’s life after all this time.

Hannah did the one thing that even Castiel himself could not do. She admitted she had feelings for him and more than anything, she wanted to stay with him and see where their feelings lead them. She wanted that very badly, but then she encountered Caroline’s husband, and she was reminded about the life she had taken away, and she put her feelings aside to give Caroline her life back. Anyone could see how heartbroken Castiel was to see her go, but he was so inspired by her act of selflessness that he looked into Claire’s life.

In “Meta-fiction,” Metatron explained that he ordered Gadreel to kill all the angels in the warehouse but leave one alive. Gadreel chose to spare Hannah. Did he pick her at random or did he sense that she was different and that she had the power to persuade Castiel to be a leader?

I mean everyone else around them noted how well matched they were. The tow-truck driver, Adina, Metatron, even Crowley. Maybe Gadreel sensed that Hannah was not like other angels and that she might have the power to be an influence in Castiel’s life. Of course, his motives were less than good, but I think he knew that Castiel would respond to someone like Hannah, someone who was like him or had the potential to be.

It’s my headcanon that Castiel and Hannah both have autistic characteristics

This is the last stance, and it is something very personal to me. I am on the Autism Spectrum, and I hold the opinion that Castiel and Hannah both have Aspie characteristics and that if they were Human, they would surely be on the spectrum. This is the single reason why I love Hannah so much. Do you realize how marginalized us aspie girls are in mainstream media? There are so few of us, and most Autistic characters in fiction are male. It is hard to be autistic and female, and here is the one character I can admire and relate to because she is like me.

So there you have it. The case for Hannah and for the Castiel/Hannah ship. I don’t think it should be considered a rare-pair anymore. It is just as relevant as any of the popular pairings concerning Castiel. This will always be my one and only OTP. And Hannah is and always will be my favorite character. Her and Castiel both. I am a Cas girl and a Hannah girl. Just wondering if there are any other true Hannah girls out there.

[mild-lunacy]

Toward a Taxonomy of the Antis

You know, maybe it should be obvious, but one of the main reasons fandom always ultimately disenchanted me is at least partly because of the *reasons* some people are fans. Or, perhaps I should say, we use 'fan' as a catchall term when there are actually many models and reasons for engagement. It's not as simple as 'fan' and 'anti', but I do think that many times, the type of fan who becomes an anti was always a separate type. One thing that made me think of this is an anti actually outright saying they were only into the Throne of Glass books because of the hype around them. A lot of people say they used to be 'naive' or young, but not usually admitting they weren't really into the story on any genuine level in the first place.

Of course, saying 'genuine' risks fan policing terminology and wank about what's a 'true fan' or not, which isn't where I'm going. I just want to differentiate someone enjoying a TV or book series (like Throne of Glass) due to spontaneously loving the characters or setting, and loving it essentially because other people love it. One is much more likely to last and prove resilient than the other. If you like the 'fan' part of fandom, then as soon as the fire cools-- or other people start getting disillusioned at some kind of tipping point-- inevitably you'll become drawn into the anti mindset. Just like being drawn into the fan mindset in the first place. The only thing that's different is the direction. It's still all about external judgment that ultimately has nothing to do with the story or characters.

I'm not saying that method of engagement isn't valid. In my mind, anything that naturally arises, sociologically speaking, simply *is*. There's no 'valid' or 'invalid' ways of social organization (or writing, for that matter). In fact, it's that mindset that is my biggest difference from the antis. Your average fan may just get bored and unable to finish watching or reading new installments if their interest was social, or limited in the first place. But a few develop a critical interest, usually if other people hate the writer(s) too. Note that modern antis very rarely (if ever) march to the beat of their own drummer. People rarely quietly post anti rants online for their own benefit, disconnected from the relevant fandom, at least not for long. However, longtime lone fans certainly do exist (as I can personally verify).

Aside from this anecdotal impression, I don't think it's a coincidence that most antis these days make primarily social and/or social justice critiques. At the very least, the kind of fan who'd gotten into the Throne of Glass books due to the hype is likely also sensitive to the newest social pressures and mores of behavior. It's not that I fundamentally disagree about the benefits of representation, for example. However, the sort of person who strongly condemns a writer for writing a male character who simply behaves realistically (and amusingly) when suddenly transported into a female body is not primarily concerned with the larger issues of transgender rights and representation, per se. When a critique is not at all reasonable, or connected to the reality of the characters and their situation, the apparent conclusion is that the justification given is just an excuse for the negative bias. The reason there needs to be an excuse is because antis are a community, and their whole point is to share salty thoughts. Everyone can agree that transphobia is bad (who's a Millennial or younger and in fandom, at least), and so that's one of the easiest things to condemn. And as an anti, you have to condemn.

I don't think people purposely come up with things they don't actually feel or believe, by any means. I'm sure any negative (or positive) reaction is almost always genuine. But I also think that for someone vulnerable to hype, their genuine emotional response is itself likely to be fundamentally socially based. That is, you would feel what other people feel. You would genuinely care about those things, but you would care about them without any real introspection to make sure things make sense or are 'fair' to the characters or the writer in the rational sense. Fairness is a much more internal measure than the groupthink (or really, groupfeel) that drives both online hype and witch hunts. I'd go out on a limb and say without the interest in enforcement of the social norms, these people would just be bored rather than outraged.

This explains why antis almost never read the text closely, or outright make up stuff that isn't there. There are people who are primarily critical *and* pay attention, but I hesitate to call those people 'antis'. As I said, it's not a simple dichotomy. I've had good friends and good online discussions with people who're both critical and analytical. In fact, many highly analytical people tend to critical of pretty much everything they love. The motivation here is different, but the effect is also. One of the main hallmarks of antis is really social justice ranting rather than rational critique that may include elements of social justice. One group is focused on studying the text, and the other just likes to sound off. And of course, there's the average online fan, whose mode of engagement is characterized primarily through shipping, crack and/or memes. Antis may have some interest in shipping, but it usually rings false, as they find any excuse to find an unlikely fanon ship and then slam the story for sinking it. Like, usually antis complain about the lack of central queer ships, but in The Raven Cycle, the one that existed wasn't enough. After all, it wasn't the random obscure ship they came up with.

Anyway, I feel somewhat better about this now, because I do take some of their points to heart and let it bother me even if I shouldn't. I'm vulnerable because I'm a mix of the analytical and squee-minded fan, and antis like to masquerade their rants as analysis, even though they actually care as little about analysis as they do about canon. The squeeing shippers can (and do) just dismiss or resent the antis without a care. I end up trying to see if their arguments make sense, and inevitably get irritated when they don't. It especially messes with my mind when they start on about shipping, as I said. Not like ships are supposed to make sense, per se, but they feel free to blast canon het ships for not being believable or developed properly, which is a fair mode of critique. However, the preferred slash ship is generally more nonsensical by far, but it's absolutely immune from critique because it's gay. And we all know being gay is all that matters, riiiiiight up until the point that it becomes canon. Then it's not good enough, by definition. Alas.

[billy-batson]

an anon asked a while back if i could write an essay explaining why i hate karen and kastle and me, being me, saved it in my asks until i could further explain to full capacity. my response?

absolutely. i’ve had this ask in my inbox for quite a few weeks, since before the release of the punisher. in order for people to understand my view points and beliefs, we must take off any shipping goggles we might have and view it from a fairly objective view point. (i’ve also added my own gifs to this because eh, why not?) also, this got quite long so under a cut it goes. also, it sort of gets messy but bear with me. (word count: 2.5k)

we’ll first begin with miss karen page. first introduced as a girl being framed for a murder she did not commit; a fresh breath of air, of sorts, in a show focusing mainly on foggy and matt, two men. as the first season moves on, we see that she’s interested in discovering more about union allied, who attempted to frame her, and that eventually leads her to ben urich, a reporter who, in his heyday, followed thrilling and intense cases and wrote groundbreaking articles. now, though, since he’s aged and has more concern for his life and job--which he needs to support his dying wife while she’s in the hospital--he writes whatever his editor wants him to. he’s fine with this. in fact, he’s comfortable with this.

the issue, though? karen essentially pushes him back into this type of work, bringing him into her hunt on union allied which he explicitly stated, multiple times, that he did not wish to do. he knows how this will likely end--he even tells her as much, reminding her that he’s old now, and he’s “a lot less stupid”. while we can’t entirely fault her for coercing him into working with her, since he is a grown man and he can make his own decisions, she was the cause of the events that led up to, and caused, his death. yes, a white woman caused a black man’s death. unsurprising news when you’re black.

after his death, though? karen--who holds absolutely no relation to him--gets the ownership of his car, which could have gone towards paying his wife’s hospital bills, and his job, despite having absolutely no credentials or prior experience. that is a fine example of white privilege. never worked or trained a day in that work, ever, and yet she gets his job. i know this isn’t real life, but it’s a piece of realistic fiction. it should be realistic---which, i guess, it is, since the only way someone with no credentials or experience in journalism is going to get a job is if they’re white. also, this is marvel netflix’s first example of violently murdering a black person in their series (which they do in every one of their series), so that leaves a foul taste in my mouth, as a black person.

and next came the, what i like to call “weirdly random ooc #female badassness! wannabe episode”, aka the episode where she kills wesley, stating that she’s fired a gun before and insinuated that she’s killed before. not only does she get off scot free for this (which, by the way, never would have happened unless she was white), but it’s also never mentioned ever again. it was a needless act that was ludicrous in execution and inserting into the narrative. it was just a way to say “look! our blonde haired beauty is a badass haha :)”

season two comes along, and it’s shown that she’s digging up information about the punisher while also going on dates with matt. eventually, though, she meets frank for who he is and this is what i call the sort of beginning of manipulation, at least for her, but i’ll be getting more into depth about this later. in the last few episodes, she gives frank an ultimatum -- stop being the punisher, or she’ll walk away. you’ll recall that in the defenders, she also gave matt the same ultimatum, which is a form of manipulation and underlying abuse. karen can not accept that these mens’ alter egos is who they are inside, and that causes for her to make them choose between her and doing what they want to do. having experienced such abuse from the hands of ex friends in the past, it sealed the deal for my disdain for her.

the main thing i dislike about karen is how she’s written in a way where it’s as if she can do no wrong. and fandom’s behavior definitely perpetuates that. she’s seen as a “#perfect cinnamon roll” or a “#goddess” or a saint or whatever fandom is referring to her as. she truly is not all that, yet the writers tend to portray her as such. (needless to say that in the comics, she sold matt’s identity as daredevil for drugs, but that’s beside the point.) she does not deserve to be held to such a high pedestal, and fandom, specifically certain individuals in the fandom, should not hate people who point out valid criticism of her because they can’t see it from any perspective that isn’t their own.

on that note, fandom is a large part of my hatred for characters or ships. fandom never knows how to be normal and they either detest you for not liking their favorite character / ship, or don’t listen to you at all.

when it comes to kastle, though, things are more simple to explain. (as of writing, i am currently on the third episode of the punisher and going slowly through it for obvious reasons.) the entire reason frank does what he does, is because of the death of his family. of his children, of his wife. he relives that all throughout season two of daredevil despite claiming to not have ptsd, and we see it even more intensely in the punisher. he thinks of his wife and children every day, without fail--often times its the first thing he thinks of, and the last thing he thinks of. even a year to two years after their death, the wound is still raw and he is very much not over it.

so why, pray tell, is the ship kastle a thing? he is not, in anyway capable of having or maintaining a healthy relationship as of right now--nor might he ever. the fact that people could excuse this obviously damaged man’s feelings just to ship him with fandom’s white fave, thinly veiled self insert character is saddening and bordering on disgusting. he hasnt even had the chance to heal or breathe and everyone’s already shipping him with her?

matt said that karen deserves better than him. “better than [matt]” does not equal “you should date frank”. frank, himself, says that karen is in love with matt. he compares that love to him and his wife, who he’s not over. karen understands this and accepts this -- she is in love with matt, just as frank is in love with maria, still.

his love for maria is further solidified in the first episode of the punisher, when he repeatedly relives good moments that he had with maria and reminisces on the things that he loved about her through his memories. he, in every way, needs healing. what he does not need is a relationship. that would be one of the last things that he needs, especially after going through all that he has. the death and loss of his family was one of the most traumatic things he’s experienced, to the point that he takes it upon himself to track every single person connected to their murder and kill them, even going so far as juarez, mexico, to do so. six months after that is not enough time for the emotional stability that frank needs before a relationship with anyone could even be considered.

after frank kills schoonover, karen is visibly upset.

she didn’t want him to kill someone, and she even goes so far as to tell him that he can’t keep doing what he’s doing, otherwise, they’re through, and she’s walking. (to which he obviously keeps doing what he’s doing and doesn’t look back as he leaves her in the woods.)

going back a bit, in episode ten, after his escape, she’s afraid of him to the point that she draws a gun on him.

(needless to say the scene right after this is everyone’s beloved #zomg kastle!! scene. everyone seems to ignore what happened right before that scene though. hm. wonder why.)

does that even seem like a good relationship build up? he makes her cry out of a fear for him, she gives him an ultimatum, manipulating him, she pulls a gun on him and absolutely can kill him, as seen since she’s murdered wesley and has apparently done so before in the past. he has no reason to believe that she won’t pull that trigger, and the audience, aside from knowing that the punisher is too iconic of a character to kill off, has no reason to believe that she won’t pull that trigger. why not? she’s done it before on screen, and she showed us what she’s capable of doing.

she doesn’t get the chance to because her apartment is shot up and frank, the good person that he is, ducks down and protects her. because he’s a good person, and she’s someone he can consider, at this point, to be a sort of “friend”. (i’m like, 90% sure none of you guys have ever had any good things happen to you from good people or that yall have friends and cant tell the difference between friendship love and romantic love, since yall ship this, but i rest my case.)

a fun scene i saw pop up in the anti kastle tag -- a post written by a shipper -- was the scene in the punisher where someone refers to karen as “his girlfriend, and takes that as a sign. please, i know we all know better than this. people tease people all the time when it comes to friends, especially attractive ones, typically those of the opposite gender. i can’t list the number of times that one of my childhood friends was called “my boyfriend” by my family or i was called “his girlfriend” by his. it would be completely ludicrous to presume that that sort of comment meant anything other than a jest or a poke at frank’s expense. that’s what friends are like, that’s a universal experience for most people who have friends. it does not hint towards that ship or somehow verify it. thats not what the comment was. by thinking it verifies the ship in some way, you’re all effectively making a mountain out of...dust.

finally, let’s talk about fandom’s need to show their ass when it comes to their ableism. frank castle has ptsd, albeit he is in denial of such a fact. fandom often writes fics and headcanons that if kastle was canon, karen could “fix” frank of his ptsd and “make the pain go away”. for one thing, ptsd does not go away. it doesn’t. being with someone does not make it go away. i know fandom likes to see karen as a saint or an angel or a goddess, but she’s human. even if kastle were to happen, the ptsd would still be there. frank isnt going to magically be “cured” because he’s dating karen page. the fact that this is such a common fandom headcanon is ableist in and of itself. as an abuse survivor still living in an abusive situation, fandom needs to understand that ptsd does not go away. it can be lessened, yes, but it does not go away. an event such as watching your entire family get slaughtered before your very eyes does not go away, especially when said person repeatedly has flash backs of said event. you cannot expect it to. this is part of the reason why the fandom, itself, sickens me.

also, there are volatile tendencies on both sides. as karen isn’t the sole person to blame for why this ship borders on toxicity (almost as bad as the fandom); frank is, as well. due to his volatile nature, and her stubborn and subtle manipulations, as well as the fact that neither of them, specifically frank, are in a position to be in a relationship with anyone (karen as well, considering matt, who she canonically loves, has just appeared to die), makes this ship unable to work. it cannot work and it does not work despite fandom’s perpetual pleas to make it work, likely due to the fact that karen is the self insert character for women all across the fandom, typically and most often, from what i’ve seen, the white women. (needless to say that comics canon karen is so vastly different from show karen that she might as well be a self insert oc at this point.) these are the same white women who will likely regard this as “misogyny” and label it as just “another hater hating”. that is not what i am, but if thats your prerogative, to demonize a black woman for pointing out valid criticisms and flaws found in the beloved ship and the white woman, thats not my problem.

so, in conclusion, why do i hate karen? mainly due to the fact that her white privilege gets her a job, a car of a dead man with a dying wife, who’s dead as a result of her actions, and, of course, fandom and their constant push to make her a savior of some kind, here to “fix” frank. why do i hate kastle? because of fandom’s desire to show their ableism in wanting karen to “fix” frank of his ptsd and thinking that a relationship with the woman who gave him an ultimatum and manipulated him in order to act the way that she wanted him to is anywhere near “romantic”. volatile relationships built on past fear of the other and aiming a gun at the other is not a good foundation for any ship. since their meeting, they were known as being in love with other people, and they are currently in a space where they believe their loves are dead. why would someone’s first reaction be to ship them with each other? why would someone’s first reaction be to ship the man who regularly has nightmares and panic attacks about the death of his family and his wife with someone else when he is obviously still in mourning? why would someone’s first reaction be to ship the woman who was crying, sobbing as she attempted to keep him from doing what he wanted to, who was so afraid of him to the point that she held him at gunpoint? where does any of this set the foundations of a good ship?

and why would one ship it?

[mild-lunacy]

The Unspoken Truth about Shipping

I know I insisted yesterday (shouting it into the void for the millionth time) that seeing canon Johnlock isn't about shipping, and it's not like that's not true, but. The fact is that even if it were so, Johnlock isn't 'just another ship' no matter how you slice it, because all ships aren't equal on any analytical grounds. Any such equality is purely social. However, that can essentially be invisible because discussion of shipping is generally in the context of it as a social phenomenon, to do with cliques, popularity or unpopularity and/or social capital and the lack thereof. In other words, it's treated independently from characterization, as a pure expression of fannish whim or desire. And this would be fine, as long as the people doing so retained a measure of self-awareness, akin to the one slash fans used to have about the fact that they were slashing. Not *exactly* the same way, though, because slashers certainly helped pioneer this mentality that all slash ships are equal, if only equally non-canon.

Overall, clearly there are strong social forces at play in fandom to the effect that all ships are 'equal' insofar as they're all subjective preferences. And there's a certain, more broadly popular, polite fiction these days that all subjective feelings in general are equivalent to each other. Of course, this is understandable, because if left to their own devices, people will discriminate against others and claim one preference is morally superior to another. This is even true about ships. So to prevent or counteract such moralistic attacks, people say that all subjective preferences are the same and must all be respected, where such respect just means 'stay in your own lane'. Basic common sense, really. On a purely rational level, however, even aside from canonicity, it's clearly *not* all the same. More broadly, feeling that something is 'true' or believing in a pairing's validity generally doesn't actually make it real, plausible or genuinely workable for the characters in the context of fanfic. Note, I'm assuming you're talking specifically about 'shippy' or romantic fic that supports its pairing, rather than a PWP where two people simply have sex for no particular reason or a fundamentally abusive/unsatisfying relationship.

As an easy example, look at something really random or cracky like Sherlock/Jeff Hope, the cabbie, and compare it to Johnlock. You can talk about canonicity and the degree of canon interaction and apparent compatibility or personal interest the characters have in each other, like @ivyblossom has recently. In that sense, it's not that Sherlock/Jeff Hope is 'superior' (or inferior) to say, another protagonist/antagonist pairing like Sherlock/Moriarty (though this is fandom, so some people would certainly say so), but at the very least, Sherlock spent more time with and had paid more canonical attention to Moriarty, which makes it more plausible. (Note, Sherlock/Moriarty is still really implausible and is also counter to everything Sherlock stands for, but at least it's less cracky and could be explored in a dark AU). This is the difference between Ivy's Stage 1 and Stage 2 type ship. I guess I'm just saying you can definitely go deeper than that, given you're open to analyzing the potential relationships through the lens of the characters and interpersonal psychology in general. This probably goes without saying, but not all relationships are equally plausible either in real life or in fiction, and they're also not all equally well-advised or likely to last. Common sense for most people, really, though some folks will insist any relationship's success is only dependent on the work the people involved put into it. To some degree that's true, but that doesn't mean there's not a *limit* to the kind of success we're talking about. Factoring in basic compatibility means that for some couples, a lot of work and effort would add up to... a sort of fond tolerance. There's only so much you can do if someone's not sexually compatible with you, either due to chemistry or sexual orientation, for example, and that's just scratching the surface.

Remember, I'm saying this without suggesting any sort of moral judgment. Regardless, surely that is common sense. There is no universe where Sherlock and Jeff Hope are equally well-suited as a couple as Sherlock and John-- and I mean this purely on an interpersonal psychology and/or romantic narrative level. I don't mean people shouldn't *ship* Sherlock with Jeff Hope, of course. I mean, who cares (obviously not me). The point is that shipping them, or even postulating that relationship, would have to exist in a fundamentally different space in regards to the characters, the text, and probably reality in general. To make it work, you'd have to do certain things to the canon character of Sherlock which are automatically OOC, more or less, and even then it wouldn't last or go past a certain shallow level. The kind of relationship you can achieve is limited by the nature of the characters and their established dynamic, on some level, if they're going to remain recognizable as the two characters in question. Writing and using your imagination can certainly make a lot of unlikely situations feel real, but it's not magic.

On some level, I'm sure we all understand this, which is why I called the whole 'ship and let ship' reductionist fandom philosophy a polite fiction. Talking one on one with other fans, at a con or in a private chat, I really doubt many people would claim there's some sort of purely abstract equivalence between Sherlock/Jeff Hope and Sherlock/John for the actual characters. At least, unless the person in question was a really committed, pure philosophical subjectivist (which most people aren't). Anyway, obviously the whole thing is a defensive strategy to do with some people's hurt feelings and the need for self-justification. Plenty of people in fandom go so far as to dismiss or belittle the validity of actual canon or 'Stage 5' ships for whatever artificially constructed reason (it's not plausible or otherwise good enough, it's too 'abusive', it's out of nowhere, etc). So the bar for denial and dismissal is already quite low, since it applies to actual facts, let alone people's analyses. People also tend to assume every argument has to come down to a moralistic debate, so a false dichotomy gets created in fandom, where either one accepts people's preferences or one is automatically telling them how to feel about things. I get this. I just... find it frustrating, and so had to explain my passions on this matter yet again.