#anyway can you tell i have Thoughts on Primordus?

[kutscene-kestin]

And now the questions I promised I’d steal from the character ask meme. I might answer the rest some other time. Or if anyone’s just dying to know the answer to anything in particular, ask away. Anything in quotation marks is Kestin answering for herself, because...sometimes fictional characters do their own thing.

2. Who is your commander closest to now?

She tries to keep everyone at arm’s length, because she’s sick of people dying. It doesn’t quite work out, because she’s still just a person. She didn’t really even know Blish that well and his death still got to her, although the how and why of it probably contributed. She might say she’s close to Aurene, but the relationship there is obviously not quite the same as with anyone else.

Truth is, she cares about her friends, but she also feels isolated. I’m totally not projecting or anything. (I mean, for me, the isolation isn’t intentional, so...)

3. Who was your commander closest to prior?

There are three people she was ever particularly close to. If they aren’t evident, they will be.

6. If your commander could revive one person, who would it be and why?

“Watch Commander Talon. So I can punch him in the face. With a knife.

He died too quickly. Too easily. And with too many allies around him. ‘To the last sword’, he said. Like their lives were nothing. Oh, but when he’s dying, suddenly everything we tried to tell him makes sense and he lets his people evacuate. You know, the dozen or so that are left.”

And there you have it. Yes, she has serious that place issues. The reason she wouldn’t revive someone she cared about is because she fears they would be strangers now, after everything she’s been there for that they haven’t. Besides, she thinks ripping someone out of death is kind of cruel.

Her answer might change after EoD, but that’s another story.

10. When alone, how does your commander handle grief?

She doesn’t. That’s why she’s a walking psychological time bomb. It’s not always her choice; sometimes there’s just too much to do, and it needs to be done right now. Other times, though, it’s her who ensures there’s something to do. Because she doesn’t want to face it. She doesn’t know how. So the answer is distraction. Endless, endless distraction, whatever it takes.

12. How does your commander feel about Braham?

”He’s a good guy. Makes me smile sometimes. Heh. Epidemic. ...I’m pretty sure he spelled that right. I wouldn’t know. One of us had an education and it ain’t me. If you ever catch me using fancy smart words, it’s cause -- can I break the fourth wall a sec -- it’s cause my creator is a walking thesaurus and doesn’t know how to write anything in between their own voice and caveman speech. So, that why me say big word sometime.

Anyways, back to Braham. He...look, I understand why he went all Primordus. It just...I didn’t...he was...

I’m not sure what to say to him right now. It’s good he came back.”

13. How does your commander feel about Caithe?

She was pissed for a while about the whole grand theft egg business. She’s not anymore. She’s come to accept Caithe as Aurene’s second parent figure, though she secretly maintains that she’s still the first. Otherwise, as a person, she thinks Caithe is all right. She feels like she can understand her to some degree.

16. If given the chance, would your commander give up their fame and power? If so, why?

“......no. Because then someone else would have to do it.”

Ultimately, the answer is yes. She can’t say that, though, because she can’t get past the fact that if she didn’t do it, well, someone else would have to. If she had the opportunity to force someone else to live in her shoes instead, she wouldn’t be able to do it. It would feel wrong. If there were more than one person, if the weight of the world was more spread out, if it didn’t seem like everyone thought things revolved around just her...or if things stopped being so fucked up all the time and there was no need for someone like her...then she’d give it all up right away. She dreams of disappearing and being just someone else in the crowd, or maybe leaving the crowd entirely and going somewhere nobody will find her. But as things are, she feels too obligated to stick around and be not the person, but the living idea that she’s become.

[queer-as-used-by-tolkien]

Timeline Mashup

This post gave me an idea.

What if suddenly all the timelines - all the Commanders - my Commander, your Commander, all the OCs of all of us - got smashed into one timeline? Not sure which timeline or who's timeline or if it's a timeline where the Commander had just died or if it's just canon gameplay - but my Commander would be terrified and your Commander would be terrified and someone's Commander would be roaring at the top of their lungs and someone's Commander would be hiding a corner and someone's Commander wouldn't care and someone's Commander would be desperately talking to Caithe or Braham or Rytlock or Taimi (I'm picturing this in EotN) and every Commander from a Trahearne-lives AU would be panicking and all the Commanders would find the OCs from their home timeline and kinda just clinging and looking for "my Taimi" and "my Braham" and "Rytlock don't you recognize me" and - just panic and confusion and all the NPCs who just saw all these Commanders in whatever fashion warz you've outfitted them in (and hundreds of versions of Caladbolg?!) pop into existence and start panicking - they'd group up and maybe stand in a corner and Rytlock brandishing Sohothin at anyone who came near and all the Commanders standing at a distance maybe (or if you have fire immunity, then ignore it to Rytlock's consternation) yelling and begging and pleading and crying, and it'd just be pure chaos and hopefully we didn't get any homicidal Nightmare Courtier OCs or Inquest OCs or old-timer vengeful Flame shaman OCs, and if we didn't, hopefully no easily-angered Commander starts a fight.

Until Aurene, now connected to ALL these Commanders at once, kinda just grabs their attention and everyone goes quiet (save for that one voice still wailing in the background because Taimi tried to tell them Trahearne's been dead for six years) and maybe Aurene knows what's going on, because she's so connected to the Mists and that's probably how it happened anyway (maybe she thought we needed ALL the Commanders to save Tyria from Jormag vs Primordus fight) - and maybe she doesn't but she tries to say let's do this calmly, have a question raise a hand - and then she's left with no fewer options than before so she just picks one at random -

but she can't answer the questions she's still confused as everyone else, so eventually there's another DRM and she punts off twenty Commanders to handle it and that shuts them all up and Aurene explains calmly this is another world and can we please cooperate, we can't have a thousand Commanders and we'd have to explain that to the Pact and this mostly just won't work! But then there's so many to whom Commander is a core identity and they can't just not, and my Commander specifically it's her literal name -

And still nobody understands why only certain of their friends came with and still recognize them but not Rytlock or Caithe or Gorrik.

Ahhh I don't know, it's just an idea I had. Would be fun to, like, have a roleplay session or something where we try to sort this out between our Commanders and see what happens, if they all die, and see reactions to insane headcanons - my Commander is a sylvari-human hybrid whose father is one of the two unnamed sylvari, imagine Caithe hearing that and going wait wait wait there's no such person as Phillipe, and just.

You tell me how many times you've broken the lore and what actual-canon NPCs or other Commanders would react like?

[kerra-and-company]

If you feel like it! For the angst prompts:

As always you're welcome to ignore it if you aren't vibing with the prompt :)

"You aren't a monster."

-uselessidiotsquad-

Okay, @uselessidiotsquad! You earn the new prize for “longest prompt fic Kai’s written”! Clocking in at 1381 words! (Which isn’t all that long, haha, but it is my longest prompt fic for sure.) Thanks so much for this one, and sorry it took a bit! :)

Warnings: Icebrood Saga spoilers, not wanting to be alive, emotional conversations where things aren’t totally resolved

Where are you going, child?

Tanza’s boots crunched through snowdrift after snowdrift.

Stay here. Rest. Come to me.

Tanza sprinted through the gate of Jora’s Keep. The soldiers stared at them. Out of the corner of their eye, they saw the Warmaster look up from a patient and reach out her hand. Tanza didn’t stop.

You have power. Together, we could protect the world.

Taking the stairs two at a time, Tanza reached the Pact copter. A very bemused Vigil soldier poked their head around the side of the copter, a box in their hands.

“Hey, Lieutenant. What’s going on? I’m not due for another supply run yet, I don’t think.”

“I need to go to the Eye of the North,” Tanza got out, panting.

The soldier furrowed their brow. “Right now?”

“Yes, please.”

We could protect your mothers, you know. We could keep them safe, little owlet.

“Do NOT call me that!” Tanza yelled. Her nails dug into her palms.

The soldier stepped back. “I didn’t…oh.” Their expression shifted, and they put the box down. “Okay, get on, Lieutenant. I lost half my squad to those cursed whispers. I’ll be damned if I let that happen to anyone else.”

****

Tanza spent the entire flight with their head in their hands, trying to shut out Jormag’s voice. It didn’t fully work until she stumbled off the copter, the noise of battle preparations highlighting the utter silence inside her head.

They sighed, leaning against the metal ship. Their pilot coughed.

“I have to head back to the Marches. Are you—”

She nodded, staring at the ground. She forced herself to stand up straight and move away. “Yes. Thank you. Dismissed.”

The copter roared to life, lifting off the ground and disappearing among the clouds. Pebbles clattered against the stone bricks as Tanza stepped inside the Eye.

In the back of their head, they thought about going to see Aurene. Maybe the Dragon of Crystal and Light would know what to do, how to help them. But in the end, she just sank down amidst boxes and boxes—of what, she didn’t know—and hugged her knees to her chest. Tears slid down their face.

What would Owl think of me? I’m…corrupted by the one that killed her. And I always have been.

My mothers should have let me die.

They weren’t sure how long they sat there, but after what felt like forever, they felt a tap on their arm. She blinked to clear her gaze and looked up.

A very small sylvari stood in front of her. They were so small, in fact, that they looked like a human child, and it shocked Tanza out of their tears.

“Are you Tanza?” they asked, tilting their head to the side. “I’m Rhi! They/them please! My sister told me you needed help.”

“Your—” Tanza’s voice cut off, and they swallowed. “Your sister?”

Rhi hummed in agreement. “She said she’d come help you herself, but she’s busy and she’s also pretty big, so it would be hard for her to come to you. So I did! Oh, and also…” They waved to someone behind them, who began walking over. “I brought an adult!” They sounded very proud.

As the figure grew closer and Tanza’s eyes cleared, she could see that they were an asura, and a rather tall one at that—almost as tall as Rhi. They had dark skin, like her, and white patterns around their eyes, which were—

Tanza’s chest pulsed, uncomfortably, when they saw the asura’s eyes. Bright orange, like very hot coals, and hair that looked like it was made of lava. They tried to scoot back, but they ran into more boxes.

“Hello,” the asura said, standing next to Rhi now. “You can call me Cio, and I use she/her. What’s going on?”

“I-I—” Tanza stammered. “What—who are you?”

Cio’s eyes focused on the center of Tanza’s chest and then narrowed. “Rhi,” she said. “I can take care of this. Go back to your sister.”

Rhi frowned. “But I want to help!”

“Go back to Aurene. Tell her I’m taking care of it, and that you’re going to help her keep an eye on things from the Scrying Pool. Okay?”

Rhi thought for a moment, and then grinned. “I bet I can do a really good cannonball!” Cio opened her mouth, probably to chastise them, but they zipped off into the crowd before she could say a word.

The asura exhaled. “This is exactly why I’m never going to have kids.” She sat down across from Tanza, crossing her legs under each other. “Okay. Your name’s Tanza, right?”

“Yes,” Tanza said. “She/they.” She had too many questions in her head, such as how is there a sylvari child if sylvari can’t have children and is Aurene really their sister or did I hear that wrong, but what came out of her mouth was, “Why do I feel like I need to get as far away from you as possible?”

Cio smiled wryly. “Look down. I’m guessing it has something to do with that.”

Tanza gasped. The outline of a diamond was visible through their armor. She slapped a hand on top of it, curling her fingers as if to rip it out.

“Jormag?” Cio asked.

Tanza didn’t want to nod, but they did. There wasn’t really much point in denying it, and besides, they didn’t have the energy.

Cio gestured at her own head with a wave of her hand and a grimace. “Primordus.”

Even the name made Tanza feel like running, adrenaline shooting through her body.

“Based on my research and discussions with the Commander,” Cio said, “their only weakness is each other. So it makes sense that their magic would be somewhat incompatible.”

“How…” Tanza hesitated. “How long…”

“Since I was two,” Cio said. “I can’t remember a time when this wasn’t what I looked like. You?”

“I…since I was a baby. But I-I—I just found out today.” They weren’t sure that made sense. They also weren’t sure how else to say it.

“Oh.” The asura seemed to understand, anyway. “Glitches and bluescreens. I’m sorry.”

The two of them sat in silence for a few moments. Tanza broke it.

“Does. Um. Has Pri—has he ever talked to you?”

Cio’s gaze sharpened. “No. Have they?”

“Wouldn’t shut up till I left the Marches,” Tanza said. She’d been going for flippant but landed solidly in desperate. “But they whisper to everyone.”

Cio’s face is too still. “I’d imagine it’s different for you, though.”

“They want to use me,” Tanza whispered, unclenching their hand and pulling their knees back to their chest. “They don’t say it like that, but I can tell.”

“Okay.” Cio took a deep breath. “Okay. I’m going to tell you something that my brother told me as a progeny. I know you’re not a child,” she added quickly. “And your situation is different. Would it still be all right?”

Tanza shrugged, bringing her shoulders all the way up to her ears as if they could hide her face.

“You’re not a monster.”

Tanza straightened. “But—”

“You’re not. I promise you,” Cio insisted, eyes blazing. She stood. “I doubt I’m going to be able to convince you that there’s nothing wrong with you, even though that’s true too. I’m not always good at this—I’m an engineer, not a diplomat or a counselor. But I can and will make you hear me on this one thing. You. Are. Not. A. Monster. And neither am I.”

Tanza heard. And it didn’t fix anything, not at all, but it was just barely enough. Their eyes stung. “I’m supposed to go back to Bjora. I was assigned there.”

“You’re going to stay right here,” Cio said, her tone final. “Ker—the Commander will not mind. And if and when you’re ready to go back, my friend is a pilot, and she can take you.”

“Will you stay with me?” Tanza blurted.

Cio blinked. Oh no, she’s probably busy, Tanza thought. “I’m sorry—”

“No, don’t be,” the asura said, a small smile on her face. She sat down on Tanza’s left, and, for the first time, Tanza noticed that Cio’s hair was glowing just like her diamond.

“Yes. I’ll stay with you.”

[coollizzylou]

About the writing sentiment, I have thoughts and I hope you’ll forgive me for taking over your post. But here goes.

Under the cut because this may get long and spoiler-y (don’t read until you are through all of content)

Ok here it is: I think it’s intentional. And I think it’s really just mostly Asura that thinks this.

I think this sentiment is intentional because we the player KNOW that Jormag is a threat. We have seen it. There is so so much proof that they are bad news.

So how do the writers try to persuade us that Jormag could be reasoned with, that they might have good intentions, that they’re trustworthy? How do writers get you to put aside their meta knowledge that the antagonist is the antagonist? How do they persuade the player?

You get characters that the player likes and trusts to believe what you want the player to believe. You make the player feel wrong. You use meta knowledge against them. And you plant these seeds early on. You foreshadow.

In Shadow in the Ice’s and Visons of the Past: Steel and Fire’s conversations with Aurene, she mentions that Jormag themself might want an end to the cycle. That they might help. We like Aurene, we trust her. And more importantly, she hasn’t been wrong before.

Then Jormag says that they just want to live in peace, they don’t want to have to be violent. They don’t kill the commander when they have the chance. They don’t rampage through the mists, they leave a line of communication, they talk eloquently. They respond and give insight. They remind us by mentioning him that Kralkatorrik died in agony, that the overload of magic was why he was so destructive. They claim they are not. We remember how Aurene pitied him. How Kralkatorrik was not scared of his demise, dispite what Glint thought. This adds more to the idea in the back of the player’s mind. That maybe, just maybe, everything the player knows is wrong.

Then we get pushback.

No way would an entire race’s government be so stupid to help an elder dragon! No way! Unless Jormag is actually truly an ally, it just feels wrong.

And then Taimi yells at Braham. Multiple times. Tells him that he’s stuck in the ice and the snow, tells him that Jormag can be reasoned with! Tells him that Jormag is giving her data. That Jormag isn’t the threat right now. But Braham says that THAT’S THE ENTIER POINT!! WE ARE DEALLING WITH THE ELDER DRAGON OF PURSUASION.

At the same time, we can see Taimi’s point. She wants to go back to her ancestral home. Most asura do. That’s why Jormag can make the Asura believe them. They promise the Asura their homeland back. They believe them. That’s why I think it’s mostly the Asura who think Jormag is the lesser threat, who think that helping kill Primordus is a good plan.

But Jormag has also driven the Norn from their homeland. Jormag has caused so much suffering. We’ve seen it. We know it.

In this instance, Braham speaks for what the player is thinking. But here’s the thing: Taimi is the “guy in the chair” she gives us reliable information. She isn’t wrong. She can’t be wrong or else the plot goes sideways. It’s a very disorienting argument meta wise.

So the Commander keeps the peace as best they can. They say that we take the treats as they come, that it’s all we can do. They move on.

In the next mission, Ryland himself helps us. He equates himself with us. And it sounds like Caithe can agree with him in a small way. And it’s very distressing. But then they start to dissagree. And that is comforting. But still. The fact that we’re tolerating this icebrood with a fancy title is off putting. He helps us. That feels wrong. But we go through it anyway. We have to. It muddies the water all the same.

So the player is caught in a tug-of-war between two ideas that have messages that signal to the player that they are right. And so we just spin between them, waiting for the answer. And that’s what we have to do. Wait for the eventual twist.

I’m not going to go into the last mission because I think it addresses other themes and isn’t applicable to this specific conversation but. Yeah. I think this feeling is completely intentional. And if it’s not for you, that is VALID.

just played about the first half of champions with kinos and i legit hated every second of it? seriously, what is up with “we’re trusting jormag and ryland blindly now, everyone who doesn’t is an irrational idiot” and also what the fuck is up with those bosses??? like i find both gameplay and writing so incredibly frustrating and we haven’t even finished yet……………

[fractal-quadrilioquy]

Zhaitan | Mordremoth | Kralkatorrik | Primordus | Jormag | Soo-Won

This entire project was just an excuse to write Primordus meta. Sorry to have deceived you all, it's time for The Big Boy who is here to Eat Rocks and Have A Good Time (for him! not so much others.)

My interpretation of Primordus here, as Conflagration of Molten Curiosity, is a very specific interpretation, but with a lot of thought behind it. I'll elaborate on more under the cut, but in short - Primordus is fast, Primordus is mobile, Primordus is very aware of the surface despite being underneath it, and Primordus is, canonically, good at mimicry.

(Lore descriptions and thoughts under the cut!)

---

Conflagration of Molten Curiosity

Life always changed on the surface. Wing-beasts, forager-beasts, always always something new, something to sculpt, easy even from below. The ones-who-speak have been here for a long time, always new but very old. It learned how to remake them long ago, through its constructs of fire and rock. But these new ones…

Invaders, the ones-who-speak call them. These ones don't seek to placate many of the above-grounds, but build and build and build, reaching up high.

It wants a closer look. Rock and earth part like water, fissures foaming hot.

It has been a long time since it last surfaced.

Play Style

Continually shifting its presence, either through adding and destroying it, and/or shifting to new lands with every Invader phase. Deals small amounts of damage at a time, often at point blank range, but can build up some badlands to increase its destructive potential.

---

Primordus is my favourite of the Elder Dragons, and what really gets me is that he's everywhere - or perhaps more accurately, if he's not already there, he'll be there soon enough. Destroyer burrows appear all over Tyria; though all of his siblings have their various areas of Tyria (Zhaitan claiming Orr, Mordremoth incorporating Maguuma, Jormag descending from the north and beginning to threaten the Shiverpeaks, Kralkatorrik's Brand carving through Ascalon and Elona), Primordus pops up literally everywhere, as is natural for him - Since he can move underground, literally beneath notice.

In addition, Primordus is fast - It's common in many fantasy things that entities associated with rock and earth, even volcanic ones, are slow to build up but destructive on impact. Primordus, however, both opposes his counterpart - Jormag, renowned for their slow and creeping influence - and is associated with lava and magma, which if you know anything about pyroclastic flows, add up to being exceedingly quick. He's been the first one to attack both of Glint's scions while they were still in their eggs, and was quick to capitalise on and process his siblings' magic after their deaths, both Vine-Touched and Death-Touched Destroyers populating Draconis Mons, while the Commander only faced one Icebrood that was doing anything similar.

It shows that he's not only aware of much that's happening on the surface, but that he also has the speed and thought to do something about it. Despite everything that Jormag is saying, Primordus is not mindless at all - and, considering that he's been able to keep up with and take down Jormag for the entire time that they've both existed, his level of thought is actually quite advanced.

I love my fire son dearly.

The main challenge when interpreting Primordus in Spirit Island was that there are already several spirits representing the earth and bedrock of the island. Serpent Slumbering Beneath the Island, for one, is quite self-evident - But the obstinacy of earth in Stone's Unyielding Defiance and the vulcanism of Volcano Looming High both mean that making a spirit that is distinct from all of those three while still being Primordus was difficult. In the end, my major thought was - None of these spirits actually care that much about sentient life, other than the destruction that the Invaders threaten with their actions (though arguments could be made for Stone shoving them places and making them stay there), but Primordus actually very much does.

(It's interesting, the parallels you find with Jormag - though Jormag tends to prefer their minions somewhat sentient, every corrupted Icebrood we see has been warped into something distinctively monstrous and other, seen most evidently in Icebrood Norn and Kodan. On the other hand, Primordus doesn't bother subjugating other races and instead mimics and recreates them, from crabs to trolls to harpies to wyverns to giants, and sticks to that. The exceptions that I'm aware of is the Stone Summit group found in Forging Steel, who ritually bound themselves to Primordus, but Primordus as far as I know, didn't really have a hand in that aside from being the power source they drew upon.)

So, I made this mimicry and curiosity his main aspect! He follows the invaders, surfacing where they are and either drawing himself close or drawing them to him - whether that be to a different biome or straight down into the earth. He doesn't care about the Dahan, for he's gone through that process before, ages ago, likely before the Second Reckoning, but these Invaders are both new and threaten to stop the evolution and creation of things he likes to mimic - therefore they have to go, so he's killing two invaders with one stone!

His two innates are also a bit of a reversal to Volcano's - Adding presence at fast, and destroying them in slow. It represents him surfacing and diving again with each turn. It's fun to imagine the Badlands he creates as being pools of lava or swarms of Destroyers that make life particularly dangerous to exist there.

This constant moving is also why he's got Water as a secondary elements - Fire, and lots of it, being the main one, but Water and Earth as he swims/swarms beneath the surface, and Sun for a little extra power.