#anyway YEAH law is canonically Catholic i GET IT but have you considered. i do what i want

[bugslap]

Celebration — of Law and his Relationship with his history

[demented-dukey]

“Reasons Why I ~Shouldn’t~ Ship RemRom” Masterlist

(Companion to: "Reasons Why I Ship RemRom" Masterlist)

After a year of shipping RemRom, I think I’ve heard every argument against it. I decided to compile a masterlist so it’s easier to copy and paste a link the next time I hear the same argument for the zillionth time. (Obviously some of the reasons and explanations overlap, but I tried my best to keep them separated and organized. Am I missing a reason? Shoot me an ask and I’ll add it!)

Some apply to me personally, some do not, but I will use the terms “I/Me/We/Us” interchangeably:

“They’re brothers.” Some people ship brothers. Some people don’t consider them brothers, or purposefully make them unrelated in their fic.

“It’s Incest.” All the sides are part of Thomas, all ships are literally selfcest. “It’s CANON that they’re brothers.” Whether or not we agree with you on what is and isn’t canon, people are free to cherrypick what canon they use or discard at will. Fanfic does not have to be 100% canon compliant.

“It’s Gross/Disgusting/Icky.” Some people don’t think it’s gross. Other people like it because it’s gross. Most people agree that sardines are gross, but there’s still people who like them. Eating Bertie Bott's vomit-flavored jelly beans is gross, but it’s still “safe” because it doesn’t carry the same risks and repercussions that eating real vomit in Real Life does.

“It’s Wrong.” Lots of things are wrong - Murder. Violence. Abuse. Drugs. Etc. People still write about them, even in a “positive” light.

“It’s Illegal.” Wait, are you talking about incest in Fiction, or in Real Life? Because incest in Real Life is mostly illegal (I say “mostly” because the specific laws can vary in different places depending on gender and degree of relation), but writing about incest is not illegal. It’s important you know that there’s a difference between fiction and reality.

“Fiction influences Reality.” But fiction is not the same as reality, nor does it have a 1:1 direct influence. Things like the Scully Effect and the Jaws Effect don’t apply here - fanfiction doesn’t have the kind of mainstream or widespread influence that a prime time television show or a blockbuster movie does, and it comes with tags and trigger warnings that those kinds of media do not.

“Shipping RemRom means you support incest in real life.” No, it does not. Shipping is not activism, and enjoying incest in fiction does not mean we condone it in real life.

“Shipping RemRom means you don’t have any siblings, or that you want to bang your siblings.” No, it does not. Many shippers have siblings, and our relationships with our siblings are platonic - we have no desire to bang them. See again: There is a difference between fiction and reality.

“Children will read this and think incest is Okay.” Children should be taught by their caregivers and teachers/mentors to critically examine the media they consume. It is not a fanfiction author’s job to teach children morality - we assume whoever is reading our fics already knows “Incest is Wrong” and is willing to suspend their belief for the length of the fanfic.

“RemRom romanticizes incest.” I mean, I guess yeah? But you should know that going into it? Oxford defines “Romanticize” as “deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.” - isn’t that what most fanfiction does anyways? Do you also complain that apple juice tastes like apples?  (Addendum 1: “Incest should not be Romanticized/Glorified.” Fiction is a safe space to explore taboo topics. It can be educational to see something “bad” (like abuse or incest) portrayed in a “good” light in fiction so that you can learn to recognize it and not get fooled by that kind of propaganda or situation in Real Life.)  (Addendum 2: What counts as "Romanticizing/Glorifying Incest” can be extremely subjective, and is not universal to all fic and shippers. There are shippers who don’t write Roman and Remus as brothers, so their fic is not romanticizing “incest”. There’s fic that portrays RemRom as abusive or destructive, or portrays a realistic reaction to the others finding out about the relationship, so that fic is not “romanticizing” incest. But people who accuse RemRom of “romanticizing incest” don’t really care about these distinctions, they just want to condemn/exclude all RemRom fanfic and shippers.)

“RemRom normalizes incest.” It really doesn’t. That’s why we use tags and trigger warnings, because we know it’s not normal and can trigger people. Incest shipping will always be a minor section of fandom, and allowing us to exist in fandom spaces does not mean we’ll ever be a majority or “normal”.

“RemRom is triggering.” People triggered by RemRom can block and filter the tags to avoid seeing it. (Addendum: “RemRom isn’t being tagged.” If a post isn’t tagged properly, OP needs to be contacted directly so they can fix their error. Posting generalizing statements about huge amounts of RemRom going untagged smells like slander, and I’d like some proof before I’ll believe any more claims of this.) 

“RemRom is harmful.” A fictional story in and of itself is not harmful. Any “harm” that it can cause stems from things like a lack of warnings (which is why tags and trigger warnings are important), a lack of personal responsibility (people who know they will get harmed not filtering it out or choosing to expose themselves to it despite warnings), a lack of morality/critical thinking skills (which it is assumed a reader has before entering into the fic), or a violation of the fic’s intended use (the “grooming” argument).

“RemRom can be used for grooming.” And a hammer can be used to bash someone’s skull in. That’s not its intended use, and taking away one tool will not stop a groomer from using another.

“Thomas hates RemRom/doesn’t want people to ship it.” I’ve seen a couple people spreading this rumor, but there’s never any proof. Pics or it didn’t happen. (Addendum 1: Does this mean I think Thomas ships it? No, I don’t think he does. Considering his Catholic upbringing, he probably doesn’t like it. But he’s never said anything about it.) (Addendum 2: Does this mean I want him to say something about it, or that I encourage people to ask him or Joan about it? HELL NO. Leave Thomas and Co out of this, it is not their place to weigh in on fandom drama.)

“Joan said they were brothers.” Joan said they were “conceptually” brothers, like Patton is a Dad or Logan is a Teacher. Joan also said that they were not biologically brothers.

“Roman and Remus consider themselves brothers.” Patton considers himself the father of the others, specifically Virgil and Thomas. If you can accept one ship, you can accept the other. (Addendum: It is a common trope of romcoms for the female love interest to say that the male lead is “like a brother to her”, only for them to romantically end up together by the end of the flick.) 

“Roman and Remus hate each other.” Feelings change. Roman didn’t like Virgil in the beginning either. Also, fic doesn’t have to be canon-compliant. Also also, “They hate each other” is the perfect foundation for tropes like “Enemies to Lovers”.

“RemRom is abusive because Remus knocked Roman out.” The sides are all imaginary, and Logan said that object impermanence renders him pretty unintimidating. Remus’s violence is as abusive and permanent as the violence in Saturday Morning Cartoons. Also, fic doesn’t have to be compliant to canon relationships.

“RemRom is disrespectful to Trauma Survivors.” No. Shipping fictional incest does not condone real-life incest, and there are Trauma Survivors who use proshipping to cope. (Addendum: “RemRom isn’t a good coping mechanism/Trauma survivors who proship are re-traumatizing themselves.” Falsehood. Therapists/counselors/etc. support proshipping as a coping mechanism. It’s not for everyone, but it can help people cope.)

“RemRom is disrespectful to Fictives and Kinnies.” No. My RemRom fic as no more to do with your Fictive than my Thomas/Jon Cozart RPS has to do with the actors themselves. It’s not about you, it’s about my version of this character. Also, there are Fictives and Kinnies who ship RemRom.

“Why can’t you ship any other pairing instead?” Because we like this pairing. Because this pairing has implications and themes that other pairings do not. If somebody is happily enjoying some durian fruit, you shouldn’t slap it out of their hand and demand, “Why can’t you just eat an apple instead?” (Addendum: Most people do ship other ships as well. But due to the wide practice of excluding/banning proshippers from large sections of Tumblr/Discord/etc., you won’t see your average Fander admit to also shipping RemRom on their main. This fandom shunning forces Fanders to set up secret RemRom-devoted sideblogs, which leads to a deceptive assumption that “RemRom shippers won’t talk about any other ship” without acknowledging that proshippers are often not allowed into other fandom spaces to talk about other ships because so many people refuse to interact with them.)

[care-devil]

Masterlist of Karedevil moments - Daredevil Season 2

[Season 1]   [The Defenders]  [Season 3]

It took me long enough, but here it is: the masterlist of Karedevil interactions for season 2! I did that for season 1 and didn’t do it for S2 because there were so many more scenes, and pretty self-explanatory, “canon” as some would say. But I figured it’d be great to have one for S2 as well. Season 3 is coming soon, as well as the one for the Defenders. I hope this will be of use to vidders, gif makers, or simply Karedevil addicts! If you do use this, please let me know, like, reblog or tag me so that I know it’s actually useful to someone :) 

Episode 1  - Bang!

Scene 1:

○ When: around 6′55

○ What: Foggy tells Matt Karen’s being suspicious about his... physical state.

○ Main quotes:

Foggy: "You know Karen’s been asking questions? The cuts, the scrapes, the bruises?”

Matt: “What did you tell her?”

Foggy: “You’ve a drinking problem.”

Scene 2:

○ When: around 8′50 (until 11′00)

○ What: Matt & Foggy get to the office, Karen’s already there taking care of the clients.

○ Main quotes: “And [we have] each other” (Karen)

Scene 3

○ When: 17′29 - 20′20

○ What: Foggy, Karen and Matt are at Josie’s. Foggy leaves and Matt and Karen chat and play pool together.

○ Main quotes: well, it’s more a scene to watch than to listen to.

Episode 2 : Dogs to a Gunfight

Scene 1:

○ When: 4′25

○ What: Foggy’s taking care of Matt after he was beat up by Frank Castle.

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Where’s Karen?”

Foggy: “We’ve been through this!”

Matt: “Oh yeah that’s right. You... You sure she’s okay?”

Scene 2:

○ When: around 24′30 to 29′30

○ What: Karen pays a visit to Matt, who took a “sick day.” She tells hims she’s not that okay, he hugs her. Karen then tells him he can tell her what’s going on with him, anytime. They also talk about the Punisher. Karen thinks they all created him, and that he and Daredevil are not that different.

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Come here. I’m glad you’re okay.”

Later

Karen: “Okay, let’s say this. When, or if you ever feel like you can tell me what’s really going on with you, I promise that I’m here. Is that a deal?”

Matt: “That is a deal.”

Later (29′10)

Karen: “Wait... Matt, I... We care about you. You’re worth... keeping around.”

Episode 3 : New York’s Finest

None

Episode 4: Penny and Dime

Scene 1:

○ When: 7′20-8′50

○ What: Karen helps Matt tie his... well, tie. 

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “But... You’re feeling better?”

Matt: “Yeah... Now... with you.”

Scene 2:

○ When: 9′38

○ What: Karen, Matt & Foggy are seating next to each other at Grotto’s funeral.

Scene 3:

○ When: 14′55-16′50

○ What: Karen, Matt & Foggy are talking about the Punisher at the office. Then, Foggy leaves the two of them to talk.

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “I think... You are...”

Karen: “Oh my God, you think I’m insane?”

Matt: “No, I’m kidding. Compassionate. It’s a good quality Karen. The stuff of saints.”

Karen: “Yeah, but I’m no saint.”

Matt: “I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear that.”

Scene 4:

○ When: 52′15

○ What: The trio is at Josie’s. Foggy leaves to order some drinks, so Matt and Karen are alone. AGAIN. (I see a pattern here, don’t you?) Matt asks Karen about her brother.

○ Main quotes:

Scene 4:

○ When: 53′59

○ What:  Foggy and Matt are alone outstide of Josie’s, waiting for Karen.

○ Main quotes:

Foggy: “Careful, Matt.”

Matt: “What’s that?”

Foggy: “Keep going like this, you might just end up happy. And for a Catholic boy, it’s a pretty dangerous thing.”

Matt: “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Foggy: “God speed, Matt Murdock.”

Scene 5:

○ When: 54′38

○ What: THEY KISS IN THE FUCKING RAIN

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “Do you mind the rain?”

Matt: “No.”

Karen, taking his hand: “Then I’ll walk you home.”

THEY KISS I REPEAT THEY KISS

Matt: “Can I take you to dinner?”

Karen: “Yes.”

Matt: “Tomorrow?”

Karen: “Yes.”

Matt: “Goodnight, Karen.”

Karen: “Goodnight, Matt.”

Episode 5: Kinbaku

Scene 1:

○ When: 5′57

○ What: Karen comes into the office carrying coffee. Matt and Foggy are there. It’s the first time they see each other since their kiss. 

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Is that coffee I smell?”

Karen: “What? Oh, yes, arabica for all!”

Matt: “Wow, thank you, you’re a goddess!”

Foggy: “Ok you two...”

Scene 2: 

○ When : 9′50- 10′25

○ What: Karen and Matt talking at the office, the day after they kissed (and after Elektra came back into Matt’s life).

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “I don’t think you’re wrong about Castle, but it’s really simple, Karen. Just, I don’t want you to get hurt.”

Karen: “So, hum... Last night...”

Matt: “Last night? I don’t, what happened last night? At Josie’s? With Foggy? Something happened? Anything else?” *smiles like a goofball” Yeah, it was great. And I’d like to think I can do better, if we’re still on for dinner?”

Karen: “Hum, yeah, it’s a date.”

Scene 3:

○ When: 33′47

○ What: their first date *_* They’re at this fancy restaurant, they talk about work and are both being very awkward. Karen leaves for a few minutes, and meanwhile Matt gets a call from Elektra.

○ Main quotes:

Matt, to a waiter: "If I had to seem like I know everything there is to know about wines in the next 60 seconds, what would I order?” (it doesn’t seem like a very interesting quote BUT IT’S SO FREAKING CUTE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO IMPRESS KAREN)

Scene 4:

○ When: 40′10

○ What: Matt & Karen are eating at the Indian restaurant.

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “I wish you could see this place.”

Matt: “I can, if you describe it to me.”

Karen: “So, anyways, my favorite part is the ceiling. So it’s literally dripping with thousands of lights. They’re shaped like chilli peppers. It sounds really tacky, I know, but it’s not, it’s just... it’s magic.”

Scene 5:

○ When: 42′30

○ What: The end of the date, and the second kiiiiiiiiss

○ Main quotes: they sit, and...

Matt: “All right, I’m gonna kiss you.”

Karen: “You could come up... if you’d like.”

Matt: “I would love to...”

Karen: “But you won’t.”

Matt: “Not tonight.”

Karen: “It’s okay.”

Matt: “Can I tell you why? Because, I have this... incredible ability to bring disaster to the best things in my life, and tonight has been perfect. Don’t you think?”

Karen: “Yes.”

Matt: “And if I stop now, then I get to keep this one perfect night, and also I have the chance of keeping it going tomorrow *kisses her*, and the day after...”

Karen: “And the day after that...”

Matt: “Exactly” *kisses her forehead*

Karen: “Then I guess it’s good night, Mr Murdock.”

Matt: “Good night, Ms. Page.”

Episode 6: Regrets Only

Scene 1:

○ When: 9′50-12′18

○ What: at the office, Christopher Roth (Castle’s lawyer) is talking to Karen about her deposition.

○ Main quotes: Just a conversation between the trio!

Scene 2:

○ When: 13′48-18′34

○ What: Foggy, Matt & Karen pay a visit to Castle at the hospital + Karen and Matt hold hands at 15′58!!

Scene 3:

○ When: 18′44

○ What: Still at the hospital. Karen’s admiring Matt, as usual.

○ Main quotes:

Matt, to Karen: “We’re on shaky grounds, you need to be very careful.”

Scene 4:

○ When: 21′59

○ What: Matt kisses Karen on the cheek before he leaves to meet Elektra, the “new client that pays”.

○ Main quotes:

Foggy: “Woah, okay. Is this officially happening? Are you guys dating?”

Karen: “Hum... Ah...”

Matt: “Hum, we’re...”

Karen: “Not... labeling it.” Pause. Then, to Matt: “You know, why don’t I, why don’t I walk you out?”

Scene 5:

○ When: 22′27-23′40

○ What: Still at the hospital. Karen and Matt are talking outside the room.

○ Main quotes (aka the whole fudging dialogue):

Karen: “You think he’ll be okay, with this?”

Matt: “Yeah, I mean, it’s a pretty small office, it’s gonna take some getting used to.”

Karen: “Yeah, I guess.”

Matt: “But, I’m not misremembering, am I? It really was the best... curry on the planet?”

Karen: “Mmmm, yes. Great, great curry. Even better company.”

Matt: “I’ll try to make this [appointment] go quick.”

Karen: “You know what, Foggy and I have got our hands full with everything here, why not just make dinner for tomorrow night?”

Matt: “Yeah, can we?”

Karen: “Yeah.”

Matt: “And, thanks for backing me up earlier.”

Karen: “Well, I didn’t do it for us, I did it because helping Frank, getting to the truth, that’s the right thing to do. *Matt chuckles* What?

Matt, after he kisses her: “I know. All right.”

Karen: “Okay.”

Episode 7: Semper Fidelis

Scene 1:

○ When: 4′03-6′44

○ What: Talk at the office. Karen is going to visit Castle on her own. Yet another kiss (4th one)!

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Karen? You know you don’t have to do this by yourself.”

Karen: “It’s okay, Castle doesn’t scare me.”

Matt: “Maybe he should.”

Karen: “I can take care of myself.”

Matt: “I know. But I’d be saying it to Foggy. Or a Navy SEAL. *smiles* “Just watch you back.”

KAREN KISSES MATT.

Karen: “Promise.”

Scene 2:

○ When: 35′10-36′50

○ What: Matt arrives late to Frank’s trial... They all chat and Foggy leaves.

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “You let him down, Matt.”

Matt: “I know. Hey, I know. But I’m gonna make it up to him. And I’m gonna make it up to you.” *kisses her on the forehead*

Scene 3:

○ When: 36′51

○ What: Karen and Matt are getting dinner at his place.

○ Main quotes:

Matt, about the preparation for the trial: “It could take all night.”

Karen: “Well, I don’t mind. What?”

Matt: “You ever considered law school?”

Karen: “Oh, I don’t know...”

[...]

Matt: “Just thinking Nelson and Murdock might be more fun as... Nelson, Murdock and Page.”

Karen: “Ugh, you’re sweet, uh... I don’t know, I don’t know if law school is really the right fit for me. I guess there’s just something about the rules and the loopholes. I just feels like the truth gets lost a little bit too often.”

Karen: ‘You ever think back to the night we first met?”

Matt: “Yeah, all the time.”

Karen: “Will I sat in that police station, alone, I was afraid of the whole world. Well, at least until you and Foggy came into my life, and... you trusted me, you gave me hope. And then we came back to your place...”

Matt: “I offered you Thai food.”

Karen: “Yeah, God, I remember everything about that night, ‘cause it’s... not everyday your life is threatened, then saved by a man in black. Hey you, you believe in what he does? You know, the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen?”

Matt: “I, mmm, uh, I... I believe in the law. If, that’s what you’re asking.”

Karen: “Yeah, right. No, but... but what about when the law fails? Like it did with me, like it did with Frank? You know, what are we supposed to turn to? What sould we... what should we believe will protect us then?”

Matt: “See, you’re asking a Catholic lawyer.”

Karen, laughing: “I know...”

Matt: “What do you want me to say?”

Karen: “I don’t know, I guess it’s just...

ARGUE ABOUT FRANK, then call it a night.

Karen: “I don’t know, maybe after the trial’s over...”

Matt: “Yeah, real date next time.”

Elek*tra has been there all along, so Matt tells her: “She [Karen] is important to me.”

Scene 4: 

○ When: 50′11

○ What: Shit’s going down after a big reveal in Frank’s trial.

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “No, no, no, no, you don’t treat me like I’m just you secretary, I’ve done more work on this case that you have!”

Matt: “I can’t get into this right now, Karen.”

Karen: “No, enough of the dodgy bullshit. I deserver to know what is going on with you two. With you.”

Matt: “You asking as my co-worker? Or my girlfriend?”

Karen: “Both.”

Matt: “Yeah. I am sorry you’re caught in the middle of this, but right now I have to go.”

Karen: “Where?”

Matt, leaving: “I’ll see you tomorrow, Karen.”

Karen: “Yeah, maybe” (Matt hears her, close up to his face)

Episode 8: Guilty as Sin

Scene 1:

○ When: 24′04

○ What: Matt is with Elektra, at his place, and Karen shows up unexpectedly.

○ Main quotes: well, it doesn’t last long enough really, Karen is shocked to see Elektra, she just tells Matt Foggy could use his help with Frank’s trial and leaves.

Scene 2:

○ When: 32′00

○ What: Frank’s trial, Matt shows up and tries to apologize to Karen..

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Karen, I’m so sorry about...”

Karen: “Uh, Foggy wants to walk through some things with you.”

Scene 3:

○ When: 39′21

○ What: After they lost Frank’s trial, outside of Court. Matt & Karen get into a fight.

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Karen, let him [Foggy] go.”

Karen: “I don’t wanna hear it.”

Matt: “Karen, can I talk to you for five seconds-”

Karen: “I don’t want to hear another bullshit excuse. Maybe you are an alcoholic . Maybe you’re in a fight club. Maybe you are sleeping with a whole harem of women. I don’t care, I’m done. You’re right. This city really needs heroes. But you’re not one of them.

Episode 9: Seven Minutes in Heaven

Scene 1:

○ When: 23′50

○ What: Indirect scene, as Karen’s not there. Foggy came to see Matt at his place.

○ Main quotes:

Foggy: “What am I supposed to say to Karen?”

Matt: “I don’t know, same thing I’m telling you. [that he’s done apologizing for who he is]”

Episode 10: The Man in the Box

Scene 1:

○ When: 9′13

○ What: Matt & Karen meet outside of Court. It’s Karen who talks to him, he was just gonna climb the stairs without stopping. Well, he can certainly pretend he did not see her...

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “I, uh, see Reyes dragged you in too.”

Matt: “Karen? You all right?”

Karen: “Other than being hauled in as a suspect in the escape of a confessed murderer? Yeah, I’m great.”

Matt: “Yeah... This whole case has been a disaster. I’m sorry I pulled you guys into it.”

Karen: “Don’t be sorry.”

Matt: “How are you otherwise?”

Karen: “Good. Yeah, I’m good.”

Matt: “Good.”

Scene 2:

○ When:   15′39

○ What: Foggy, Matt & Karen are summoned by the DA. They all meet her in her office + gunshots, Matt shields Karen with his body.

○ Main quotes:

Matt, whispering to Karen: “It’s probably not a good idea...”

Karen: “Trust me.”

Episode 11: .380

Scene 1:

○ When: 8′28

○ What: yet another fight outside of the police station...

○ Main quotes:

Karen: “Matt.”

Matt: “Karen?”

Karen: “What are you doing here?”

Matt: “Brett reached out, something shot at you?”

Karen: “Yeah, it’s okay, I’m fine.”

Matt: “Why didn’t you call me?”

Karen: “Would you have answered? Look, Matt, I know you mean well, but I can take care of myself.”

Matt: “No you can’t, Karen! Not if Frank Castle wants you dead, no one can.”

Karen: “You’re right! You’re right! Castle’s dangerous, and maybe I can’t handle this, but I don’t want your help.”

Matt: “What’s going on with you? What are you holding back?”

[...]

Matt: “Then you need to back off.”

Karen: “No, Matt, you need to back off.”

Matt: “This is not a game, Karen, this is dangerous!”

[...]

Karen: “Look, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go...”

Matt, making a move: “I'm gonna come with you.”

Karen: “No! Matt, I'm.. I'm not yours to protect.”

Scene 2:

○ When: 21′20

○ What: Indirect scene, the friggin dialogue between Frank & Karen at the diner.

○ THE WHOLE DIALOGUE BECAUSE JFC:

Karen: “You're honest. You never lie to me.”

Frank: “Does he?”

Karen: “Who?”

Frank: “Come on. Let's not do that. Okay, the lawyer. Not the other one. Murdock.”

Karen: “Um... Yeah... He's got issues. It's complicated, like most people. Hard person to get to know. I just think that inside he's...”

Frank: “You love him, right?”

Karen: “You can't know that.”

Frank: “I'm sorry, can't know what?”

Karen: “You can't...”

Frank: “Come, we're in court, all that shit going on, it's all over your face. You can't hide that. You love him.”

Karen: “I might have... feeling for Matt Murdock, but it's just... it's just a swirl, it's a lot of things. Like, ingredients, not love.”

[…]

Karen: “He's the kind of man who hurts people. Not like you, but... he damages them. Breaks them.”

Frank: “Sorry, is that supposed to mean something?”

Karen: “So those are the people that you get out of you life.”

Frank: “Is that right? Look, I might be generally considered out of my skull, so this might not mean much, but this could be the craziest, most batshit thing I've ever heard in my life. People that can hurt you, the ones that can really hurt you, are the ones that are close enough to do it. People that get inside you and... and... and tear you apart, and make you feel like you're never gonna recover. Shit, I'd... I... I would chop my arm off right here, in this restaurant, just to feel that one more time for my wife. My old lady, she didn't just break my heart. She... she'd rip it out, she'd tear it apart, she'd step on that shit, feed it to a dog. I mean she was ruthless. She brought the pain. But she'll never hurt me again. You see, I'll never feel that. You sit here and you're all confused about this thing, but you have it. You have everything. So, hold on to it. Use two hands and never let go. You got it?”

Scene 3:

○ When: 48′16

○ What: Indirect scene, Karen comes to the harbor after Frank has supposedly been killed. Matt’s there, as Daredevil, and he listens to her heartbeat. They don’t speak, but they breathe the same air.

Episode 12: The Dark at the End of the Tunnel

None

Episode 13: A Cold Day in Hell’s Kitchen

Scene 1:

○ When: 17′10

○ What: Matt learns Karen’s been taken. AND HE LOSES IT.

○ Main quote: “He wanted to know the names of everyone you ever saved.” (Brett)

Scene 2:

○ When: 18′10

○ What: Matt goes to Karen’s place, she’s not there, he’s FREAKING OUT

○ Main quote: “Karen” (I am not kidding you)

Scene 3:

○ When: 21′31

○ What: Matt just learnt that Karen has been taken. He’s on the rooftop, trying to hear her, but he can’t focus. 

○ Main quotes:

Elektra: “You can't just take the bait.”

Matt: “I know but I can't abandon them either.3

Elektra: “I know.”

Matt: “We gotta get ahead of this thing before any of them get hurt.”

Elektra: “Slow your breath. Focus. Okay. Focus. You'll find them. You'll find her, Matthew.”

Scene 4:

○ When: 27′30

○ What: Matt saves Karen, touches her face.

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “You're okay?”

Karen: “Better, now. Oh god... ”[seeing he's wounded]

Matt: “Go, go, go!”

Karen: “No, no, no, wait, wait...”

Scene 5:

○ When: 47′05

○ What: Karen and Foggy are having a drink at Josie’s.

○ Main quotes: “And now, not Matt...” (Karen)

Scene 6:

○ When: 54′05

○ What: the big reveal...

○ Main quotes:

Matt: “Thanks for meeting me.”

Karen: “What am I doing here, Matt?”

Matt: “I, uh, I have something...”

Karen: “No, I, I don't want it...”

Matt: “I have something... that I need you to see.” pause “I'm Daredevil.”

[blueinkedfrost]

Heathers - Bud Dean

Bud Dean has about three canonical personality traits - explosives obsession, exercise/fitness obsession, not a very good parent. Four personality traits if you count his and J.D.'s sarcastic roleplaying exchanges as a trait. Everything else is absolutely conjecture.

Bud's other important trait is that, for a character who has 2.5 brief scenes in the movie, he's a real spotlight stealer. He's extremely interesting! This is why he tempts people to conjecture about him.

In terms of defending Bud, he's not the worst character in the movie! He only killed one person and a memorial oak tree, and in both cases was legally acquitted of responsibility. He's not a very good parent, but none of the other adult characters are particularly good either.

And, very importantly, what is 'Bud' a nickname for? I think his full name should be Burton, as it makes a nice little reference to Ira Levin's A Kiss Before Dying, which you should definitely read without spoilers.

Here are my Bud conjectures, in the order that we get information in the movie.

The first thing we learn about J.D.'s home environment is that he moves around a lot but there's a Snappy Snack Shack in every town.

J.D. I've been moved around all my life. Dallas, Baton Rouge, Vegas ... Sherwood, Ohio. There's always been a Snappy Snack Shack ... Keeps me sane.

This early in the movie, 'Keeps me sane' just sounds like hyperbolic banter. Later we realise that J.D. has some very serious issues, and Snappy Snack Shacks as his one source of stability in an unstable life were not an adequate means of support. When Veronica comments on J.D.'s motorbike, he explains a bit more of his background:

J.D. Yeah, just a humble perk from my dad's construction company. You've seen the commercial, right? "Bringing every state to a higher state".

Then it's Veronica who says the company name and Bud's name, 'Big Bud Dean Construction'. So the background here is:

Bud's business causes him and his son to move around a lot - we'll figure out that the constant moving and having no friends has a negative effect on his son's mental state. Maybe Bud would've been a better parent if he'd sent J.D. to boarding school. It seems like Bud prioritises his work over his kid, although in his defence he needs to earn a living. 

The company's clearly doing well enough to have popular T.V. ads. Bud's very competent at what he does. 

Naming your company after yourself makes you a self-made man with a high opinion of your creator. (It's not even just 'Bud Dean Construction', it's a boastful 'Big Bud'.) In contrast, Veronica's family, established in Sherwood, might have inherited money, as her parents seem to lead pretty leisurely lives.

We meet Bud in person when he walks in on J.D. and Veronica watching television (Veronica quickly removes her hand from around J.D.'s shoulders). Comparing Bud's physical appearance to Veronica's father, he has a lot more grey in his hair; it's possible Bud's meant to be older, although different people go grey at different rates and he is very physically fit.

Bud and his son communicate by putting words in each other's mouth. This roleswapping exchange is offputting, and an indication of the chaos that surrounds J.D.

J.D. Hey, son, I didn't hear you come in. BUD. Hey, Dad, how was work today? It was miserable. Some damn tribe of withered old bitches doesn't want us to terminate that fleabag hotel.

This exchange makes me conjecture that Bud's on the more misogynistic end of the Heathers spectrum, although this movie sets the bar pretty low (J.D. has the dubious distinction of 'only male character to show a vague awareness that date rape is wrong'). Veronica says 'bitch' too and she'd probably identify as a feminist, but Bud uses particularly vivid, imaginative language to denounce these women - tribe of withered old bitches, then later the judge told them to slurp shit and die. (Which the judge probably did not literally do.) This combined with the backstory on Bud's wife and Bud's dismissive attitude toward Veronica makes me think Bud doesn't think much of women.

Bud and J.D. then talk over an anecdote in "fucking Kansas", where Bud was arraigned but acquitted for illegally blowing up the Memorial Oak Tree with thirty fireworks attached to the trunk. Bud is willing to break the law and clever enough to get away with it, and doesn't care much for trees, environmentalism, or history. J.D. repeats the story as if Bud's told it many times before.

Then there's a nonverbal exchange that's quite interesting. Veronica offers to shake Bud's hand and he refuses, walking on a treadmill and giving her a perfunctory wave instead. He's clearly very interested in exercising and not very polite to her. Veronica leaves in a hurry soon after.

J.D. Veronica, this is my dad. Dad - Veronica.

VERONICA. Hi. (Bud refuses her handshake.)

J.D. Son, why don't you ask your little friend to stay for dinner?

VERONICA. I can't, uh, my mom's making my favourite meal tonight. Spaghetti, lots of oregano.

After the role reversal conversation and the handshake refusal, Veronica seems to find Bud offputting and leaves quickly. Since Veronica later asks J.D. 'Do you like your father', she doesn't find Bud likeable. However, in Veronica's second encounter with Bud, she's sarcastic about him within his earshot ('the beaver's home'), so she probably doesn't find him particularly scary or threatening.

J.D.'s last line before Veronica leaves is this tantalising beginning of a reveal, that Veronica is completely disinterested in asking for more information about:

J.D. How nice. Last time I saw my mom, she was waving from a library window in Texas. Right, Dad? BUD. Right ... son.

There's an earlier script version that gives more information about Bud's attitude here:

J.D. The last time I saw my mom, she was waving out the window of a library in Texas. Right, Dad?

BIG BUD DEAN stops rowing to grin a You-Think-You're-Tougher-Than-Me-But-You're-Not smile to J.D.

BUD. Right, son.

Bud literally killed J.D.'s mother while he watched, but instead of thinking that some kind of emotional support might be appropriate, he sees mentions of her death as a tough-out contest. Bud probably wins that contest, and along with it a 'bad parenting' prize. The way J.D. brings up his mother's death makes it feel like an unhealed wound - J.D.'s poking at the scab, trying to get some sort of reaction out of his father that he doesn't get at all.

In Bud's second appearance, J.D. and Veronica are again in the living room. Veronica threw the photo of J.D.'s mother at him in frustration, not knowing what it was. Bud walks in with a videotape, gloating over how We beat the bitches ... the judge told them to slurp shit and die. He shows the video of his deconstruction job.

BUD. I put a Norwegian in the boiler room. Masterful! And then, when that blew, it set off a pack of thermals I stuck upstairs. Some days it's great to be alive.

Bud has a high opinion of his own talents (warranted - he clearly did a good job of demolishing the hotel) and loves destruction. The video seems to be much more for enjoyment than analysing his work; he watches it and laughs. Deconstruction is a job that clearly someone has to do, and lots of people like explosions in moderation - but, for Bud, he loves them. While watching the video, J.D. clearly also starts to feel excitement and consider how he could blow up Westerburg High School. Like father, like son.

When Bud leaves, Veronica asks J.D. a question.

VERONICA. Do you like your father?

At that point in the story, Veronica's disturbed about the three murders J.D. planned and she's also noticed Bud's love for destruction - it's plausible that she asked that question hoping for a definite 'no, I'm not as destructive as my father'. She doesn't get that definite no.

J.D. I've never given the matter much thought. I liked my mother. They said her death was an accident, but she knew what she was doing. She walked into the building two minutes before my dad blew the place up. She waved at me, and then ... boom.

(The camera zooms in on the picture of a light-haired woman casually dressed on a beach, in sunglasses. The sunglasses probably symbolise 'we didn't need to find a stock photo that looked like Christian Slater'.)

Since Bud literally pulled the trigger on Mrs. Dean, it's tempting to take the way she died as symbolic of It's-Just-Possible-That-I-Might-Have-Had-Some-Issues-With-My-Husband. The death was ruled an accident; she would have walked into the building of her own will; Bud probably didn't know she was there. If Bud was a decent or semi-decent spouse, then forcing him to literally kill her was a shitty thing to do. (Similarly, Martha's method of committing suicide would've been horrifying to the car driver, but in Martha's case, she didn't know that it would be one specific driver.)

While it's not spelt out, it's easy to picture Bud as an awful or abusive spouse. Ruling Mrs. Dean's death an accident was probably quite lenient from the coroner, considering that Bud was responsible for securing the demolition site and could have been considered negligent. In this real life example where a person was killed in a demolition (it's a very sad story), the contractor's responsibility was certainly considered. In some religions, there's a stigma against suicide, which means that ruling a death accidental is considered kinder to the family. Maybe the Deans are (nominally, anyway, as they don't seem remotely devout) Catholic.

(By calling her Mrs. Dean, I'm even making an assumption that they were married, which also isn't explicitly stated - but it's a pretty safe assumption.)

J.D.'s line on whether he likes his father is I've never given the matter much thought. I liked my mother. His mother was the better parent of the two, with J.D. feeling affection for her but indifference to his father. I think J.D.'s line reminiscing about his mother is a genuine emotional moment from him. Not long after this, J.D. shoots the radio playing 'Teenage Suicide' for no obvious reason. He's an impulsive character, but also a pretty calculating one, so it's hard to understand what motivated him there. Unresolved anger from reminiscing about his mother's death seems a convincing explanation.

Bud's final brief scene in the film actually shows him in a relatively positive light. While J.D. is building the bomb to blow up the school, Bud knocks on his son's door. He's not seen, only heard.

BUD. Hey, pop, I need some help with my homework!

J.D. Not right now, tiger, I'm a little busy.

Bud tries to reach out and engage his son; his son asks him to back off; and Bud respects J.D.'s boundaries and does so. (Of course, in this particular case, obviously things did not end well.)

And then J.D. goes off and tries to blow up the school with a trigger in the basement and packs of thermals in the gym. Veronica says the line Like father, like son. She literally means that the bombing style is the same. But it's really tempting to extend her line to mean more. J.D. displays a lack of empathy and concern for human life. Could those traits be inherited from his father? Bud doesn't show much empathy and concern for his son, and doesn't seem to have any friends or any interest in remarrying. Bud's exercise habits are solitary exercise, on his personal machines (not even at the gym with other people around!). Bud shows some grandiosity in his opinions about himself, such as calling his company 'Big Bud Dean Construction' and his interpretation on exactly what the judge told the protesters. It's tempting to read Bud as the 'sociopath who succeeds in business' stereotype - someone who channels his love for explosives into mostly legal channels, is willing to break the rules (see also the Memorial Oak Tree), and doesn't care for other people's feelings.

In a movie that uses a lot of colour symbolism, Bud's colour scheme greatly varies - a red and grey tracksuit in his first scene, (bright) blue and black in his second, unseen in his third. He prefers casual clothes or exercise clothes. Red is used to symbolise power (Chandler's scrunchie); grey seems pretty neutral; blue is Veronica's colour, symbolising intelligence; black is J.D.'s colour, symbolising destruction. Power, intelligence, and destruction pretty much fit Bud's character, although it's weird to see him in blue as he and Veronica hardly have anything in common. The photo of Mrs. Dean shows her in light colours, perhaps showing that she was more vulnerable and weak.

In terms of what I like about Bud, I really like his competence and his sarcasm. He's obviously good at what he does (blows up hotels, runs a successful company, keeps physically fit). He's clever enough to blow up a memorial oak tree without getting caught. His exchanges with his son show that he's rather verbally apt. Bud seems to be doing exactly what he wants to do in life with no inner angst whatsoever, which is a lot more than most Heathers characters can say.

Overall, how terrible a parent was Bud? It's pretty open. In the suicide note for Heather Chandler, J.D. contributes Suicide is the logical answer to the myriad of problems life has given me, which you can imply that he was also using to talk about himself. 'Myriad of problems' sounds like there might be more to J.D.'s issues than 'My mom died and I move around a lot', but that's a major conjecture. Bud clearly gives his son enough pocket money to support a motorbike, a smoking habit, and a convenience store habit, as well as way too much access to weaponry. Bud's not very emotionally supportive, and rather neglectful; his son stays the night away from home on at least two occasions (before killing Heather and before killing Kurt and Ram) without Bud apparently caring much.

Given J.D.'s issues, it's tempting to blame his father to a greater or lesser extent. However, J.D. is seventeen, not seven, and responsible for his own actions. J.D.'s penchant for killing other people's bullies seems like it might tie in to past bullying he experienced himself, where if he went after his own tormentors it would be too much like admitting weakness. It's believable enough to assume his father was one of the people who hurt him, whether by action or neglect. J.D. seems to mind when Heather Chandler targets Martha and when Kurt and Ram target the nerd at the funeral, in a twisted way of showing empathy; J.D. also has some feelings for his mother and for Veronica, despite how dark he becomes. Bud isn't shown to care for anyone at all.

Through Bud's exercise obsession, he's physically tougher than his son, and he seems more emotionally callous as well. No wonder he survives the movie where his son doesn't.

Go Team Bud?

[catholiccom-blog]

Three Benefits to Abstaining from Meat on Fridays--Even After Lent

Yourself: Lent is over! Jesus is risen!

Myself: Indeed, he is truly risen.

Y: That means no more meatless Fridays.

M: Well, it may, but—

Y: We can eat steak, hamburgers, pork chops, lamb kebabs, bacon, chicken wings…

M: Yes, I get it.

Y: —turkey wraps, Peking Duck, beef jerky, and bacon.

M: You already said bacon.

Y: I know what I said.

M: Well let me explain. It’s true that on the Friday of the Octave of Easter we don’t have the obligation to do penance, such as abstaining from meat. Every day in the octave is a feast. But for most of the Church year, every Friday is a day of penance, and the ordinary way Catholics observe the penance is by abstaining from meat.

Y: You mean, during Lent.

M: I mean, during Lent, ordinary time, Advent… every Friday that isn’t a solemnity or a local feast.

Y: That’s not true. Catholics used to have to abstain from meat on Fridays, but that was one of the things they changed at Vatican II. I read someplace that it was because the pope sold his stock in Red Lobster.

M: Well, you’re partly right. The year after Vatican II closed, Pope Paul VI’s apostolic constitution Paenitemini allowed local bishops’ conferences to substitute “other forms of penitence” for people in their territory, in place of abstinence from meat. This is reflected in the current Code of Canon Law, which says that “abstinence from meat, or some other food as determined by the episcopal conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday” (1250). A couple paragraphs later, the Code further empowers local episcopal conferences to decide whether other forms of penance can be performed on Fridays, instead of abstinence from meat or some other food (1253).

Y: And the Red Lobster thing?

M: I heard it was Long John Silver’s.

Y: Fascinating. So most Fridays are days of penance, and Catholics are still required to observe them by abstaining from meat, unless their bishops’ conference gives them other options?

M: Catholics of the Latin, or Western Church, yes. Eastern Catholics have their own laws and penitential traditions.

Y: Oh, yeah, I’ve heard about that. Those guys don’t mess around.

M: No, they do not.

Y: Okay, so what do the episcopal conferences say?

M: Different things. The U.S. bishops’ conference gives us the option of substituting penance. So if you’re an American Catholic in the Latin Church, you may deliberately select some other kind of penance in place of abstinence from meat. But if you don’t, canon 1250 still applies, and that means no bacon. Are… are you okay?

Y: I felt a great disturbance in the Force.

M: In certain other countries the episcopal conferences do not allow for substitute penances. And at least one conference—England and Wales—used to allow substitutes but recently switched back to abstinence from meat for everyone.

Y: I don’t agree with that. A voluntary, individual form of penance allows people to make a real sacrifice that is meaningful to them—not just follow some Church law. And what if they don’t like meat?That’s no sacrifice.

M: On the contrary, I can think of three reasons why going back to the universal practice of Friday abstinence would be a good move. Care to hear them?

Y: I don’t know… I have a thing to get to…

M: There’s a Slim Jim in it for you.

Y: I’m listening.

M: The first reason is symbolism. When the early Christians chose Friday as a day of penance, they didn’t do so by accident. Friday was the day of Christ’s passion and death. They didn’t choose abstinence from meat by accident, either, but because it was a fitting sacrifice. First because it was—and in most countries even today still is—a luxurious food, making abstinence from it an act of voluntary poverty. But also because of the symbolic connection between the bloody flesh of animals and the bloody flesh of Jesus on the cross. When we abstain from flesh on Fridays we recall the sacrifice of Christ’s body.

Y: Ah, so that’s why beef and fowl are considered “meat” but fish is not.

M: Right. Fish is not warm-blooded “flesh” in the same way. Same goes for alligator, apparently.

Y: I’ll remember that.

M: So, I think restoring universal Friday abstinence from flesh meat would be a symbolically fitting practice, not just for doing penance, but for meditating on Christ’s sufferings in the flesh.

Y: Gotcha. And your second reason?

M: Simplicity.

Y: I see what you’re doing there.

M: Although on paper it may seem attractive to be able to choose from many kinds of penance, or even invent a custom one just for ourselves, in practice it may create needless complication. We have to keep track of each Friday’s variable penance, which can lead to self-negotiation: Did I just drink that beer? Okay, no pie for me later. Man, that was good pie… Okay, I’ll be extra-nice for the rest of the night and maybe pray a few decades in bed.

Y: Are you a psychic?

M: There’s also the pitfall of subjectivity. The scrupulous may agonize over whether they can ever choose a penance that’s hard enough, whereas those who are more… sanguine about spiritual self-discipline may set too low a bar for themselves, or simply habitually forget.

For some people, sure, choosing personal penitential practices can rewarding, but for most I suspect that the simplicity of a single ordinary practice is more beneficial. It’s easy to remember, it’s time-tested, and it’s neither too easy nor too demanding for most people.

Y: What about vegetarians, or people who can’t eat meat for medical reasons? For them it’s no sacrifice at all. They don’t, or can’t, eat meat anyway.

M: There’s nothing stopping such people from recognizing this and making a different voluntary sacrifice. In fact, the bishops of England and Wales specifically required this in their 2011 document restoring Friday abstinence. But there’s a big difference between recognizing that there will be some exceptions to a norm and making a norm out of the exceptions.

Y: Now I’m feeling psychic. I sense a third reason coming… something like Sssssss—

M: Solidarity.

Y: I was just going to say that.

M: Right. So, in addition to the individual spiritual benefits that come from observing a Friday penance, there are corporate benefits for the whole Church. Friday abstinence is like ashes on Ash Wednesday or wearing a crucifix or holy medal—

Y: Or rosary beads hanging from your rearview mirror.

M: If you take them down from there to pray with sometimes, yes. These things put us in a communion of common identity with other Catholics. They strengthen on a human and tangible level the bonds of solidarity that we share with each other spiritually in the Mystical Body. A single shared sacrifice, like abstinence from meat, accomplishes this more powerfully than a general sense that all of us are supposed to be doing something penitential on Fridays.

It also allows us more easily to help our brothers and sisters with their share of the burden. At a Friday gathering of Catholic friends everyone will know that meatless pizza or fish-n-chips is the menu, instead of some having to lay off the meat, others the booze, and others indulging in everything because they’re going to watch a half-hour less TV later. We can remind and encourage each other to join together in a little bit of Catholic culture. In so doing we will remind ourselves that we’re in the world but not of it. And the world will notice, too.

Of course, nothing is stopping us from doing that right now. So no matter what your local bishops’ conference says, in your personal and family life consider extending the Lenten practice of Friday abstinence into the rest of the Church year. You may find it more beneficial than you imagined.

Y: I’ll try it. Now give me another Slim Jim.