#any more than they can decide if im queer or transsexual or nonbinary or demisexual or anything es

[horce-divorce]

"Trans men don't need an intersectional word that goes beyond "transphobia" because being a man is not an oppressed identity, it's easier for them to get resources, and they're not affected by transmisogyny"

Words spoken by people who have never met another GNC person offline (or another trans person who wasn't white) even once tbqfh. And yeah access to those spaces is difficult and often gatekept to shit so I don't think that's anyone's fault, esp not transfems. Your brutal exclusion is never your fault. Still, I think it is possible to have these CRUCIAL conversations about transmisogyny and how transfems are affected... without making sweeping statements about what other trans people do or do not experience. It might be easier for people to check their transmisogyny if they could understand how it does in fact affect them sometimes, their behavior, language, and the spaces they frequent, in addition to how it perpetuates this awful exclusion. Being hypervisible and yet constantly excluded IS something that transfems should have a word for. That IS something I do not understand the pain of as a transmasc. It must make them feel utterly insane. By all means, coin more words! It enriches these conversations when we can relate to each other more and we have more language for the discussions we're having. We want to tear down the walls keeping us apart, not build more.

to be clear, I don't think tma/tme are "unnecessary." Transmisogyny is real and transfems do really experience uniquely awful shit, especially from within the community. But that in an of itself is not a unique experience. Being excluded from "women and nonbinary only spaces" is actually not a uniquely transfem experience. So many transmascs do NOT benefit from patriarchy and I am tired of this claim coming from non-transmascs.

HOW we all get policed by our in-groups presents differently, but policing each others experiences is not something that bridges understanding. And I'm sorry but in 3 years of this convo I've not once seen someone bring up tma/tme to discuss transfems without entirely dismissing swaths of other queer people in the process. Maybe im not seeing the good faith takes, idk.

A lot of other bad-faith misinformation is STILL getting passed around about the coiner of the term "transandrophobia" and what it supposedly means, and how the term itself is transmisogynistic. None of that ever matches up with what I actually see in transandrophobia discussions. I see a lot of diverse people discussing and relating to transandrophobia, specifically a lot of tpoc and intersex people, even a lot of transfems. The people who talk ABOUT 'transandropobia truthers' present a much different idea of the discourse we're having than what i actually see. That inconsistency is a red flag for me.

Tldr i think the concept of tma/tme is fine actually, but I disagree with the usage of the term tme specifically. Terms describing what tma/tme are getting at AND transandrophobia can and should coexist. These are not mutually exclusive ideas actually. apparenrly i cant bring up one without addressing the other bc nobody has good faith conversations anymore.

Basically just. Please don't tell me what I have or haven't experienced, and I won't claim to know your pain intimately, either. we can still relate to each other over the ways we've been let down. I feel like that should be the goal, not determining who does or does not deserve to use certain words.

Also as an asexual, the whole "transandrophobia truther" dismissal feels eerily similar to the rampant ages-old acephobia from tumblr we know and love. You guys love mocking "novel" (to you) discourse and then 5+ years down the line acting like you weren't telling us to commit sepukku for suggesting that ace people can be oppressed for our orientation because we "don't even experience sexual attraction and you cant be oppressed for something you dont experience."

self determination is important for all of us for many reasons. I won't tell anyone else what words to use for themselves. If you're TMA youre TMA, end of story. But dont tell me by definition that makes me TME or that I have to use terms I feel are incomplete or inadequately describe my own experience. I'm not asking anyone else to do that.

Anyway.