#anti transmasculintiy

[corviddusk]

hey, as someone who does believe in transandrophobia i think your point of view is interesting and nuanced, unlike some other people on this website who just use the discourse as an excuse to harass and make fun of transmascs. (which is why the term “transandrobro” personally makes me uncomfortable but that’s neither here nor there)

what i wanted to say is i think there’s a common misconception by people who don’t think the term should be used or that it is flawed. specifically, the term “transandrophobia” validating misandry as an axis of oppression. i don’t think anybody’s ever really claimed this, aside from a few outliers? most of us know that men aren’t oppressed on the basis of being men. trans men, however, have way different experiences from cis men, and i would agree that they have slightly more privilege than trans women because of how society values masculinity. however, that doesn’t mean they aren’t subjected to their own specific form of oppression. in short: transmascs are uniquely oppressed for being transmascs, which isn’t the same as claiming they’re oppressed for being men.

i think another sentiment a lot of them share that’s causing a lot of friction is the idea that man-hating is harmful to trans movements. in my view, it’s more so the idea that men are more capable of evil, SOLELY BY THE VIRTUE OF BEING MEN, than women, without claiming that the reason for that is actually due to being socialized within a rigid patriarchal culture. it’s a facet of bioessentialism that regressive radical feminist movements have tried to push for a long time, and it IS inherently harmful to all trans people- not just trans men.

it seems to target transmascs and transfems differently, the latter being mostly affected by the way TERFs use it as a transphobic battering ram against them. for transmascs, it affects their ability to be heard in any space, contributing to their invisibility. in transphobic spaces, they’re seen as women, and told to shut up (a result of misogyny as well), and if they’re clocked as trans, facing transphobia. in (SOME) lgbt spaces, they’re rightly seen as men, and then silenced because some people wrongly believe that they share the same privileges as cis men now. no matter how well a trans man passes, that just isn’t true. overall, i don’t think being wary or distrustful of men due to patriarchy and oppression is a bad thing at all. automatically assuming that someone is bad because of their agab or gender they identify with, though, does absolutely nothing but get our true allies caught in the crossfire. once again, that’s not the same thing as saying misandry is a systemic form of oppression, but that overall, unconditional man-hating is bad praxis.

you can skip over this if you want, but i just wanted to share my views as a genderfluid person. i’d love to hear your thoughts! once again i appreciate that you’re being respectful about this discussion and not just automatically dismissing arguments for transandrophobia or harassing people. i don’t claim to be an expert so if i get anything wrong please let me know!

tl;dr i think transandrophobia is valid because it focuses on transmasc-specific oppression, which is valid, and not trying to claim misandry as a legitimate form of oppression.

“transandrophobia” validating misandry as an axis of oppression. i don’t think anybody’s ever really claimed this, aside from a few outliers?

Unfortunately, you are misinformed this is a well-known factor of Transandrophobia as a theory and has been confirmed by St. Dionysus the person who made Transandrophobia as a term. In fact the entire concept starts by claiming the oppression comes from hatred (implied) and fear of men. Thus it by definition is a claim of misandry.

All of these experiences are claimed to be due to fear of men existing. You know what the claim that one is oppressed for their maleness is called? Misandry.

This also is something that is reaffirmed in the Carrd by Genderkoolaid

This was from under the section entitled "sexism", this is a direct claim that this is misandry. Sexism against men is called misandry. I am sorry but you are genuinely misinformed on this theory. It's core is the idea transmascs and men are oppressed for their MANHOOD first and foremost.

however, that doesn’t mean they aren’t subjected to their own specific form of oppression. in short: transmascs are uniquely oppressed for being transmascs, which isn’t the same as claiming they’re oppressed for being men.

Transmascs absolutely are oppressed in a unique manner. This is in the form of transemasculation/anti-transmasculinity. Where in they are regendered as "confused dumb women" and when transitioning to a point they're seen as unable to return to cissexist womanhood standards they're degendered as "mutilated abominations" that need to be purged. It's a deeply violent form of oppression and it stems from anger that trans men prove the cissexist patriarchal class of man is just as socially constructed as ever other one.

some people wrongly believe that they share the same privileges as cis men now. no matter how well a trans man passes, that just isn’t true.

This is another point where I'm just lost. Yes they can't get the exact same 1:1 privileges as cis men but they do have massive privileges over trans women. Trans men who are out make more than trans women who are out, though they both suffer with less income than cis people. (Source)

Trans men can contribute to conversations where they uphold the patriarchy. They, especially those who are stealth, can be in mens spaces where the patriarchy and sexism is upheld and anything that is short of purposefully pushing back is a form of contributing to it and contributing to the system. Stealth men get paid the same as cis men (it's conditional of course) but stealth women get paid the same as cis women... which is still less. They are still treated worse due to sexism.

You are capable of accessing higher levels of privilege if you are a man. It's not a surprising or groundbreaking idea to say women are oppressed more than men. You will experience less sexism the second you pass. I know because in the past when I did identify as a man (I'm transfem now, my case is weird as I'm intersex. You can read about my experiences here) and I when passing stopped getting assualted and harassed nearly as often, I stopped getting catcalled, I got treated better literally everywhere.

It's not the same as being cis, but you do gain privileges for being a man.