#anti taika waitit

[meimaru]

I'll be honest. I did not expect the end of the dreadful era that has been 2022 to bring the lit torches of (well deserved) disdain for this man and possible end of his influence on our belived characters... but I can't exactly be mad about it ❤��

[lucianalight]

Odin’s Alternate Death Scene

Was it a better scene? Do I prefer it to the movie version?

I want to analyze this deleted scene more in depth to answer these questions. It’s the only deleted scene of TR that worth an analysis.

The scene starts with Thor and Loki finding Odin. 

"I stripped him of his memories . Disguised his existence. But I didn't do this." 

Loki stops Thor to say this. Thor yanks his arms out of Loki's hold. Clearly still angry with Loki and blaming him. They both worriedly run to Odin. 

This confirms that Loki only took Odin's memory and didn't strip him of his power. What Thor later accuses him of. Also he cares about Odin's health and didn't want him in that situation. It also confirms my headcanon that Heimdall only realized Odin wasn’t the one on the throne when Odin broke Loki’s spell and Heimdall could see him again.

Loki's expression when Odin walks to him is like a little boy who can't believe this happened to his father. He's shocked and worried.

"Your lawless nature and the storms within you, you inherited from me."

This sentence left a bad taste in my mouth. I couldn't put a finger on the reason. And I couldn't find the right words to explain it. Because it seems like a nice thing to say. Is it not? Then I remembered how Thor said Loki would do nicely in a trash planet:

Thor: "This place is perfect for you. It's savage, chaotic, lawless. Brother, you're going to do GREAT here."

Loki: "Do you truly think so little of me?"

Thor's words "chaotic and lawless" imply the same meaning of what Odin says to Loki. And Loki is offended by them. They both see this as sth inferior. So what Odin claims Loki inherited from him is not actually sth praise worthy in their opinion. As I thought more about it I realized this wasn’t the only reason why Odin's words didn't sit right with me. What really bothers me is that Odin once again is projecting his own traits on his child. It doesn't matter whether they're good or bad, it’s the way that Odin sees his children as an extension of himself and disregards their individuality which is the problem.

But I liked that Odin actually apologized to Loki directly. Loki looks like he’s about to cry. That was one of the best parts of this deleted scene.

The way Loki tries to steady Thor and stop him from falling instinctively is such a nice moment that is an indication of a long life of protecting his brother. Remember it was only the recent years that their relationship fell apart and that Loki’s betrayal to Thor was a shock to him in the first movie.

Then Hela shows up angry and Odin handles the situation as always terribly.

Hela: “With all that I accomplished in your name, tell me why was I condemned? You took everything from me”

Odin: “You gave up everything to pursue your twisted dream. Your way was cold and brutal.” 

We have another moment of Odin's A+ parenting. Raise your child to be a weapon and instill the ideas of war and glory in them. And as soon as they disobey you and they are of no use to your plans, lock them forever. And blame them for the way they acted according to your own teachings and ideas. Well-done Odin!

Loki's "No" in this scene killed me! Which was echoed by Thor and the way he threw Mjolnir toward Hela was a parallel to the way he did the same to his mother's murderer. Both times he was too late. This was a heartbreaking moment. 

Was this a better scene than what we saw in the movie?

It definitely had many good emotional moments as mentioned above.

But it also has some weaknesses. The way Odin gave hints to Thor about seeking out the fire would later take the moment of realization from Thor when he decided to destroy Asgard. He also made Thor king, which later would make Thor's coronation scene less touching. Because in the movie it feels like Thor has earned the title of being king. But this scene gives everything(a way to defeat Hela and kingship) to Thor on a silver plate. 

The scenery of the cliff in Norway is more beautiful. One of the few scenes in the movie which doesn't happen in ruins or among trash.

And finally, this is subjective but I preferred Odin's behavior in the movie, calm and collected, rather than his hobo version when one moment he is sane and wise and then he is not and he kept pronouncing "Asgard" as "Assgard". I don't think any version of Odin would ever do that.

Why was this scene deleted and replaced?

“If you saw the trailer, there's a scene where Odin dies in New York. For various reasons we wanted to get them out of New York and set up this place for Avengers: Endgame. We wanted to seed this location earlier to set up Asgard's new home. Also, the test audiences felt bummed out about Odin dying next to trash and garbage in an alley.” [X]

According to TW, the scene was cut because the test audience got emotional and sad for Odin's death and him dying next to trash. And apparently emotions are icky.

But I think there are more reasons than that. In the deleted scene, what Loki actually did to Odin is explained so Thor can't later blame him for stripping Odin of his power. Loki got an apology from Odin, a hero coded character, which actually makes his grievance with his family valid. His sadness over Odin's conditions and his reaction to Odin’s death give him more dimensions and make the audience more sympathetic toward him. Also the way he calls Bifrost in the deleted scene is not out of fear like in the movie, but determination and rational thinking that they are weaponless. He also does what Odin told them and tries to get them back to Asgard. So he can’t be blamed for Hela reaching Asgard. There is also no time for Thor blaming Loki for everything that happened. This four minutes deleted scene, gives Loki more validation and sympathy than all of his scenes in the movie. Which later would make it difficult for the narrative to keep invalidating, humiliating and blaming him, and also for Thor in the elevator scene to dismiss Loki and his pain.

Moreover, how do you think the test audience reacted to other characters in this scene? Which character invoked a more emotional reaction beside Odin? Obviously it’s Loki. And TW didn’t want the audience sympathizing with him.

I also think that Odin’s behavior, specially him saying “Assgard”, was meant to make the audience laugh which probably didn’t happen with the test audience.

So in my opinion, all of this together, are the reasons why the scene was replaced, not just the emotional reaction to Odin’s death.

Finally, which scene would be a better choice in the movie?

I think a combination of both scenes. If I were to write this scene, I would keep the location in Norway and I would add Odin’s apology to Loki. I would have kept “I love you my sons” because it made more sense after Odin apologized to Loki and wouldn’t have felt like gaslighting as much as it did in the movie. I think Hela killing Odin was a powerful moment, so I would keep that too. That means removing the scene in which Thor blames everything on Loki. As I explained before, I have a love hate relationship with this scene, but better to remove it. Also there wouldn’t be an introduction with Hela, Thor and Loki, which could be later played differently in the final battle. I didn’t like all the hints and foreshadowing Odin said in the deleted scene. So for his final words, I would prefer him to say “Frigga”.

[lucianalight]

@hunterofartemisblog Yeah the only thing we know is that he hates Loki. And this is mockery.

tAiKa WaiTiTi hAtEs ToM hIdDLEsToN

[cosmicjoke]

If you can’t stand Taika Waitit and his shit take on Thor, you gotta watch this, lol.  This dude gets it totally right.

[fred-erick-frankenstein]

Thoughts on Thor Ragnarok that obv nobody have to agree with!!!

(I can totally understand if you don't like it because it doesn't portray your favorite characters the way you got to know and love them.)

It's a Taika Waititi movie. Have you seen other Taika Waititi movie? They are nowhere dark or serious! They deal with serious stuff and maybe have things like death, lost of a family member, an absent father as themes BUT they are never dark or depressing or sad. Never! There are always funny in some ways! Because that's what life's about. Finding something to laugh about even in darker periods of life.

Okay, tbh most of them are not that over the top hilarious like Thor Ragnarok, often they are much more subtle when it comes to humor. But still, it's a Taika Waititi movie and (if I'm correct) a parody so what did y'all expect.

Nevertheless I get why some people don't like it. If someone made a parody about my favorite characters I'd be pissed off too!

But I have a request! Can you please tag your hatred or disappointment about Thor Ragnarok with something like "Anti Thor Ragnarok". Because then I can filter this tag and you can stick to your (valid) opinion and I can stick to my (also valid) opinion... ♥️

[dr-gaytorius]

saw a post yesterday and i’m still laughing abt it. ofmd discourse on how blackbeard and stede bonnet were actually (gasps) awful people irl and how that makes taika waitit awful too and called him “anti-black.” and i’m just.... like... imagine watching a show about a historically literally infamous pirate and then being like “... holy shit. u guys... apparently this pirate you was literally famous for being so bad was actually... really fking bad????” like yeah i mean. they were pirates dude idrk waht to tell you. it’s a crackfic adapted for television. what did u think was happening lol

[alwida10]

That’s true, but up till now Tom hasn’t been announced (and twitter goes mad over this fact). Tom has only been confirmed for the Loki series. And Tom is known to evaluate the films he wants to participate in very carefully. So I believe there is still hope.

I think that people need to understand that I don't give a single f*** as to the fact that Taika is directing Thor 4.

I have a problem only if Loki is in it.

Chris Hemsworth and Taika have clearly made it known that they dislike Loki to the core of their being. And i hope that atleast this keeps Kevin Feigh from bringing Loki into the movie. Tom doesn't deserve that passive aggressive attitude from Chris Hemsworth.

I seriously hope Tom sticks to his Loki series only. Acc. To reports Taika's project Akira has the same production date as Thor 4. Which is why Akira is being put on hold so Taika can direct Thor 4. Also, Akira is suppose to release in 2021 which means Thor 4 could be released in that year. Around the same time Loki series will also be released and this gives me hope that Tom will not have time to be in Thor 4.

*if anyone comes in here and dares call me racist for not appreciating Thor Ragnarok even after all the facts and interviews from Taika stating that he did no research on the franchise and stating that Loki has no magic abilities and Chris H saying that Loki doesn't deserve to come back to the MCU, I'm feeding you your own kneecaps*

[lucianalight]

I'm reading an article on why the person doesn't like JoJo Rabbit and WOW does the ending quote sound familiar:

"Waititi—a talented, well-intentioned director—makes the mistake of thinking that by not taking Hitler seriously, we somehow diminish his power. That by rendering him into a dopey, insecure crybaby, we can expose the emptiness of his beliefs. That we can just… write it all off, and come up with a new ending. Jews, Nazis—we’re all human, right?"

And even a much older Jewish person reviewed it as well and had this to say:

"So when the opening credits of Jojo Rabbit played over archival footage of wide-eyed Nazis shouting with ecstasy in the streets to the tune of The Beatles' I Wanna Hold Your Hand (in German of course) I felt a bit sick."

"Footage of real Nazi rallies without any of the shouting was uncanny, to say the least, and nauseating. What Waititi wanted to accomplish, he accomplished. You want to sing along, you want to tap your feet to the familiar tune but to do so equates you with the countless people who followed Hitler's final solution and the murder of millions of Jews, LGBTQ+ people, disabled people, Romani and others.

The screen version of Hitler, played by Waititi himself in terrible blue contact lenses as the imaginary friend of young Jojo, is exactly as a ten-year-old might imagine him: petulant and fickle. Not the man who inspired The Beatlemania-like fervour on crowded German streets.

We're meant to laugh at all the other Nazis, as we laugh at Charlie Chaplin, but they are a much bigger part of the Nazi machine than Waititi gives them credit for. I found myself chuckling out loud with the other 29 likely-gentile movie-goers at Sam Rockwell's expertly performed, drink-sodden commander.

But looking back on it, that rests uneasily in my stomach, especially given the character's arc and the ringing in my ears of the recent death-knell statement from one of the highest authorities in the US that 'there are very fine people on both sides' of white supremacy."

What I'm trying to point out is that tonka COULD be a great director, as long as there isn't source material. As long as he creates the world and characters, it would be fine but he keeps going after already made characters (Marvel, What We Do In The Shadows, JoJo Rabbit) and it just doesn't work.

Fine if he wants to take serious stuff and make them silly but there needs to be a line drawn

"Despite its nominal message about turning hate into love, Jojo Rabbit is a work that normalizes Nazis, and thus Nazism, and thus intolerance in general, by alternately saying that it either doesn’t exist, or is cute and amusing and powerless in the face of aw-shucks kiddie compassion. That makes it astoundingly wrong about WWII, about humanity, and also, of course, about today’s alt-right-infested climate upon which the film has been designed to comment. Putting it in the same company as the rest of this year’s Best Picture candidates—especially the epic The Irishman, the revealing Marriage Story, and the vivacious Little Women—is absurd"

This was such an interesting read. Thanks for sharing it with me. I haven’t seen the movie and therefore I can’t have an opinion about it. But as someone living under totalitarianism that is promoting a certain ideology, this is not the way I would want a movie to represent the hate and cruelty my people are experiencing. The brain washing, the propaganda, the othering, the sheer viciousness people are experiencing is much more complicated and serious than a bunch of idiots doing funny and nonsensical stuff. Their idiocy sometimes is laughable, but a laugh born out of helplessness to do anything else. Not the way you find Charlie Chaplin funny. Yes there needs to be a line drawn. The more I read about TW’s movies and humor, the more I get certain that they are really not for me.

[lucianalight]

I'm curious as to why people are giving Chris less flack than taika. I mean yeah taika has said a lot but Chris has been playing Thor since 2011 and yet he's on par with taika. They both dislike and disrespect all the characters. Just because Chris has said less than taika (him trying to play himself since the beginning, thinking Thor is boring, saying Loki is like that ex-gf that won't go away, purposely ignoring Tom during an event) doesn't mean he should receive less criticism than taika. I'm just saying, taika barely got into MCU while Chris has been there since 2011, which means he should know better than taika

I actually haven’t noticed this. As far as I can remember they both got the same amount of criticism from anti-TR fans from the start of our discourse back in 2017. In fact CH got the most criticism at first, because we realized about his jealousy of how his character was overshadowed by Loki and how that must have been the reason for Loki’s treatment in TR. Then people found TW’s interviews and he was criticized as well. I haven’t noticed an imbalance in the amount of criticism. Because we all knew they were both the reason for how TR turned out.

[lucianalight]

Tom started following Natalie Portman too ! Intersting and I'm glad he is a bit more active (liking that CH picture was a Tom move and the fact that he follows TW when that director never followed him back...He is a nice guy)

Nice! I can’t stop thinking about how wonderful it would be if we could have Loki and Thor!Jane in a movie without TW as a director. It would be really interesting considering both of them are great actors. (I noticed TW not following him back too. smh. Tom is a nice guy)

[lucianalight]

smh i dont check Tumblr for a week and come back to see that TW had a weird hissy fit, that he's making a movie with that (transphobic) arsehole and that the pro gagnarok people think we're all racist cishet white women that wanna get in Loki's pants. that last bit is really ironic considering that TR/Thor stans can't go 0.2 seconds without mentioning how hot Chris Odinson is. thanks for letting me rant for a bit. you're amazing Luciana! Love u!! -a queer biracial trans guy

Yeah, all of this deserves Loki's eye role, doesn't it?(btw who is transphobic? I'm totally clueless when it comes to celebrities :P :D)

Thank you so much! You're so kind! Feel free to talk to me whenever you want! Love you too, anon!😊💗❤

[meimaru]

Call me a hater all you want, but right now, I'm just disgusted.

As a movie lover, a fellow artist, and especially an animation student, who knows how much time and effort goes into those goddamn CGI effects, and how overworked and underpaid those artists are, sincerely - FUCK YOU, TAIKA.

[meimaru]

"Subtle" dig? I'd call it a whole excavation site.

[saintcarrionn]

i'm kind of cautiously optimistic about the series because while the trailer does look...doubtful, Owen Wilson has mentioned that Tom had a larger part in the characterization than he has previously (and he seems really excited about it, unlike Ragnarok) and we know that Tom is deeply attached to Loki, so hopefully he's been able to steer the series in the right direction

that said, I'm going to go into it with the lowest possible expectations because i am NOT getting let down by marvel again

Maybe the Loki series won't be as good as it should be, but at least it will bring Loki some respect. TVA Agent who will rescue Multiverse? Sounds serious. Loki will especially need respect of fans before the release of Thor 4, where Taika will laugh at him again.

I hope you’re right and they treat the character right and with the respect he deserves. If they keep the trend of mocking him like what TW did to him in TR, I’m going to hulk out.

[meimaru]

People are just now waking up? Better late than never.

(Also, I couldn't help but add this meme I found on Twitter, that is legitimately funny yet Gagnarok fans call it cringe and boomer humor. Oh well~ there's a reason why a schism is a thing.)

Is it boomer humor? Maybe.