#anti oak x wren

[ninainthetardis]

Other things that I absolutely despise in the Oak/Wren situation:

- Oak was fine before she came along and made him feel so horrible that he started to question whether his own family really loved him or he somehow compelled them to feel that love and sense of protection towards him. I thought the point of love is that the other person truly sees you and makes you feel accepted the way you are, not pushing you to doubt your worth or make you feel awful about yourself.

Oak was there: "I see you, you're not a monster, you're not good either but I love you anyway and I trust you even if you imprisoned me". And meanwhile, she was there: "your love means nothing, I can't trust your feelings, any word you say is a lie even if you can't properly lie. You are awful" And then she proceeds in attempting his family's murder (while he was trying to save hers).

Basically, she thought of herself as unlovable, so she treated him like shit and at the same time, she wanted him to feel like shit and to feel unlovable as well. And Oak was there: "I know she didn't mean to hurt me, but that stings". I think she meant it, dude. Look how she's been treating you since... well, day 1.

- Suren being problematic is never addressed in any way, except in those two lines she wrote in the letter she left for Oak at the end of the book, before fleeing like a coward. Such an issue deserved more focus. And surely not an endgame for them.

And even before that, when she said she was wrong for imprisoning him, she then immediately proceeded by accusing him of abandoning her, manipulating him into believing that him, as a KID, took away from her the chance to grow up in Elfhame. When he did all he could, at that age, to help her. One moment, Oak was thinking that he had indeed talked to Jude to help her, the next he was blaming himself for not knowing Suren could not go back to her human house. Not doing enough. As if she actually talked to him about anything at that time.

When did Suren actually prove herself sorry for all she put him through? Two sentences are not enough. And Oak is all "it's OK I forgive you" while she makes him feel horrible even for the tiniest of his mistakes.

She constantly guilt trips him to deminish her own wrongdoings.

She is so self-centered that she doesn't even consider that other people - amongst those who live in Faerie at least - have been through horrible things, too, like she did. She has a difficult past. Hence, she feels entitled to give everyone hell. To put Oak through hell. The one person who's always cared about her. This is so awful.

When Vivi used faerie magic on Heather, Jude remarked it was wrong more than once, and even scolded Vivi for doing that. They were not even the main couple, and there's been the right amount of focus on the problematic in their case. Heather left Vivi because of what she did, and then they worked things out. In time.

Heather acknowledged the wrongdoing Vivi did to her. Oak doesn't even realise what Suren did to him. That is a major issue. Cardan and Jude are well aware of the shit they did to each other. Tiernan and Hyacinthe, too. And they all did serious shit to each other, very different from keeping a secret from each other. They worked it through. They worked it through in time, "because they live in Faerie and there are worst wrongdoings there". Because, let's be real, irl none of those couples could've worked things out. And even them, they proved to each other things. In Oak and Suren's case, only Oak proved himself to her. And how are we supposed to accept that when she's the one who did the worst things to the other?

All Suren got was Oak saying that he loved her and wanted to be with her despite everything. He doesn't even fucking resent her for a moment, because she gult tripped him into believing he deserved all of it. That's the classic abuser's manipulation of the victim modus operandi. And this sort of toxic and abusive dynamic is too similar to what happens irl to a lot of people to advance the claim "it's fictional. That's a fantasy novel. They're fairies". It should have all be handled much differently to be acceptable, even if just because it's a fantasy novel about fairies.

[ninainthetardis]

I get that Holly Black's intention was probably to make Suren realise that possessing and loving someone are not the same thing and that the first one is wrong, Suren even admitted that, but the way things played out just doesn't work. Suren says she understood that but then she did little to nothing to redeem herself and actually earn that happy ending.

It's not like the Jurdan case, where they did shit to each other, thing that changes the moment they get together, when they are at a point where they are sort of "even" and can say: "ok, let's start anew and move on from here". Oak kept a secret from Suren and that's all he did to wrong her. He did his best to help her as a kid, he did his best to help her later on, despite the fact that she imprisoned him, starved him, let him being tortured and commanded through the bridle, and always treated him like shit. On multiple occasions, Oak showed the impact and trauma that the time he spent as Suren's prisoner gave him (e.g. the lines about Straun).

First case (Jurdan), it's an enemes to lovers - carried out the way that trope should be carried out, with them actually doing shit TO EACH OTHER and not just one of them being awful and the other who's just there, taking the hits and then forgiving them - the second case it's a sort of friends to lovers. What happens between Oak and Wren would be too much to come back from even for an enemies to lovers, let alone the friends to lovers trope.

Even Tiernan and Hyacinthe were constantly doing shit TO EACH OTHER and learnt to work on their issues. With Suren and Oak, it's just Oak deminishing and bashing himself to make her happy. She gets all she wants without doing anything to earn it/prove she deserves it/show she can do compromises in a relationship and in life. When did she do anything for Oak? Come on, she didn't even tell him she loves him. Not even the basics.

I don't know, Oak and Suren are way too triggering for me. The way you can see Oak gaslighting himself into believing that everything is his fault and that he did not do enough for her (EVEN WHEN HE WAS A BLOODY KID, TOO!), doubting that he ever deserved to be loved in the first place. He even came to believe that he earned and deserved that awful treatment because he manipulated her - without bad intentions - when she did much worse to him and should have been the one doing all the grovelling at the end. Instead, the opposite happened. She did other shit and he was still pining about her, and justifying her.

Their story is literally the reason why I usually hate romance with such dynamics in books, except in this case it's gender swapped. Oak is the one taking all the shit without giving some back and forgiving her. He supported her and believed in her constantly.

He was like "I love you" and she was like "No, you don't. Fuck off you little piece of shit" all the time.

"You are not a monster, Wren" and then there she was, willing to let his whole family die to save her own, and then Bogdana had the audacity to go and say: "Oak, kill Jude and Cardan to prove your love for Suren".

WHY WOULD OAK KILL JUDE FOR HER WHEN SUREN WAS LITERALLY ABOUT TO KILL A DOZEN OF PEOPLE OAK CARED ABOUT WITHOUT EVEN TRY TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO - guess what - SAVE HER OWN SISTER?!

"She tried to warn him", you call that effort?

"She helped defeat Bogdana" yes, once it was safe for her to do. Where's the stake? What did she do to earn the love she's always desired, when she has always treated like shit the one who was willing to give that to her freely?

It's all just a big nope from me. Worst ship HB has ever written. Suren should have not ended up with Oak, not like this.

I am here to reaffirm that a character being a traumatised victim does not justify the trauma they inflict to others.

[ninainthetardis]

Damn, if Suren was a man she'd be… well, T/amlin.

There's no better way to say it. With some N/esta's like reasoning behind her behaviour as well. No wonder I dislike her so much.

And no, I don't care if people are not ready to hear this. That's not my fault and I won't change my mind about her, now or never. There are limits, even in Elfhame.

[ninainthetardis]

Whatever sympathy I felt toward Wren/Suren died the moment she put the bridle on Oak. Her past with that thing was literally the main reason I felt sorry for her and then she did the same to someone else, and even worse, she did it to a person who'd always tried to help her - thing that btw she has NEVER appreciated, only to whine about how nobody ever cared about her/could ever love her. Girl, bffr.

Whatever indifference toward their ship I could feel, died the moment she actually used the bridle and humiliated Oak, who'd always been nothing but nice to her, only to have Suren constantly throwing shit at him. Even when he lied to her, his intention was to protect not to harm.

Whatever tolerance I could have toward their ship died the moment this conversation happened, while she was keeping Oak as her prisoner:

"“But all that matters is that I do want you. And I have you.” Though that seems like a confession, she delivers the words like a threat.

“I thought you believed that there could be no love where one person was bound. Isn’t that what you told Tiernan?”

“You need not love me,” she tells him. (The Prisoner's Throne, Ch. 7)

And that's it. I don't see how anyone could ship Her Toxicity Queen Suren/Wren and Oak. If she was the male mc everyone would be talking about how toxic she is instead of liking her. And I will die on this hill.