#anti extreme snape whitewashing

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Snape should not be a teacher

I like Snape's character. However, while I believe Snape is not as cruel a teacher as some Snaters (still so funny! who came up with these Snape terms lol) claim, especially when compared to teachers like Hagrid and Minerva, there are still some Snape teaching scenes where Snape is so unnecessarily mean. Like this scene in book 3 where Snape is Lupin's substitute.

“As I was saying before Potter interrupted, Professor Lupin has not left any record of the topics you have covered so far —” “Please, sir, we’ve done boggarts, Red Caps, kappas, and grindylows,” said Hermione quickly, “and we’re just about to start —” “Be quiet,” said Snape coldly. “I did not ask for information. I was merely commenting on Professor Lupin’s lack of organization.” “He’s the best Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher we’ve ever had,” said Dean Thomas boldly, and there was a murmur of agreement from the rest of the class. Snape looked more menacing than ever. “You are easily satisfied. Lupin is hardly overtaxing you — I would expect first years to be able to deal with Red Caps and grindylows. Today we shall discuss —” Harry watched him flick through the textbook, to the very back chapter, which he must know they hadn’t covered. “— werewolves,” said Snape.

I can empathize with Snape at the beginning. His class is not being cooperative and Snape is going through a rough year dealing with Lupin at Hogwarts again. Throughout the book, you see how Snape is a trigger away from exploding. And having the students fawn over Lupin, for being in the teacher role he covets, has to remind him of his Hogwarts days when the marauders were on top and everyone was on their side.

And yes, I relate to Hermione because I was so much like her in school. She's not being malicious but you can understand why Snape finds her enthusiasm and unwanted additions annoying. She's interrupting him and while he's acting cold, he's not disrespecting her. Yet.

“But, sir,” said Hermione, seemingly unable to restrain herself, “we’re not supposed to do werewolves yet, we’re due to start hinkypunks —” “Miss Granger,” said Snape in a voice of deadly calm, “I was under the impression that I am teaching this lesson, not you. And I am telling you all to turn to page 394.” He glanced around again. “All of you! Now!” With many bitter sidelong looks and some sullen muttering, the class opened their books.

Yes, Hermione is still interrupting the class. Snape is right that he is the teacher here and she has no authority to decide what the lesson is. However, Hermione has every right to understand her education as a student. While Snape is still cordial here, out of respect, he could have given her some false reason for why they were studying werewolves to appease her. Children sometimes need to know why adults are telling them to do something - 'I said so' is not enough all the time.

“Which of you can tell me how we distinguish between the werewolf and the true wolf?” said Snape. Everyone sat in motionless silence; everyone except Hermione, whose hand, as it so often did, had shot straight into the air. “Anyone?” Snape said, ignoring Hermione. His twisted smile was back. “Are you telling me that Professor Lupin hasn’t even taught you the basic distinction between —” “We told you,” said Parvati suddenly, “we haven’t got as far as werewolves yet, we’re still on —” “Silence!” snarled Snape. “Well, well, well, I never thought I’d meet a third-year class who wouldn’t even recognize a werewolf when they saw one. I shall make a point of informing Professor Dumbledore how very behind you all are. . . .” “Please, sir,” said Hermione, whose hand was still in the air, “the werewolf differs from the true wolf in several small ways. The snout of the werewolf —”

This is where Snape begins to lose my sympathy and he turns nasty.

I have been in Hermione's shoes. So I understand where Snape and Hermione are coming from. Teachers normally do not like when one student dominates class discussions. I have had teachers pass me over so they could give other students a chance. While it can sting at times, I understood they never meant to hurt me when they did that.

The problem is that this is not what is happening here. Hermione is literally the one student participating and Snape is actively ignoring her. In part, so that he can have his vindictive moment to diss Lupin's teaching.

Of course, Hermione speaks out of turn again and that's wrong of her as a student. But this is in response to Snape's horrible behaviour. The class has told Snape multiple times that they have not learnt about werewolves so Snape asking the question was just meant to function as a gloating moment. How Snape is treating Hermione here is abhorrent.

“That is the second time you have spoken out of turn, Miss Granger,” said Snape coolly. “Five more points from Gryffindor for being an insufferable know-it-all.” Hermione went very red, put down her hand, and stared at the floor with her eyes full of tears. It was a mark of how much the class loathed Snape that they were all glaring at him, because every one of them had called Hermione a know-it-all at least once, and Ron, who told Hermione she was a know-it-all at least twice a week, said loudly, “You asked us a question and she knows the answer! Why ask if you don’t want to be told?”

This moment and the scene where Snape tells a jinxed Hermione 'I see no difference' have got to be my least favourite Snape scenes.

I dislike Hermione, don't forget that. But Snape is just so cruel. How Hermione was treated makes me think of how people have been cruel to me in similar ways in highschool.

I grew up with a huge gap between my front teeth. And it only got worse as I grew older. In highschool, a classmate told me to close my mouth when I was smiling for a picture she was taking for our group project. On my graduation night as valedictorian, my aunt asked my mom when they were going to do something about my teeth. I never truly felt confident about my smile until I got braces in college. And now people tell me I have a beautiful smile...but it cost me thousands of dollars to get there. No financial help from my parents (lol I was the one sending my family money in freaking college!). Even without this experience, I have enough empathy to know that Snape saying that to Hermione was absolutely disgusting. I have seen pro Snape posts saying it is out of character but I am not convinced.

As for this moment...I honestly would not mind what Snape said in different circumstances. If Hermione was being an attention hog for instance. Or if Hermione was blurting out random information.

But the problem is that Snape asked the question like Ron said! And then Snape has the nerve to act like the class is dumb for not knowing info on a topic they have not reached. Then, to act like a manbaby and insult the one diligent student who actually knows the answer to the question!

Once again, I have empathy for Hermione because I have had similar experiences. I literally had an Indian physics teacher in highschool who told me in class one day that she was limiting the number of questions I could ask. I loved her a lot and she was a good teacher, but I guess she got fed up with my questions :(. It stung a little but I never hated her for it. I still thrived under her and she was never mean to me.

But I had an English teacher who was a total waste of time. She was a senior teacher but our class was subpar compared to the others. It was so bad that my class had to take a different test for midterm exams! Of course, I complained to my parents and one of the VPs checked in one time on the class...but nothing was done. I learnt squat that year. Anyway, there was a class where we were learning about writing techniques and, as usual, the class went off track and we started talking about random crap that had nothing to do with the lesson. I raised my hand and politely asked if we could continue the lesson topic. You know what this lady said to me? She called me selfish and my classmates agreed with her :'). Afterwards, I remember resting my head on the table and holding back tears. At least I had my BF sitting next to me as silent support.

Students like Hermione (and myself at times) can be annoying to certain teachers. Yes, Hermione spoke out of turn and she needs to control herself but it is totally unnecessary for Snape to insult her and make her cry. It's pathetic behaviour honestly. I am not saying Snape has to be nice and I do find a lot of his interactions with the trio funny. But this scene really hit home for me and I am bothered a bit when I see pro Snape posts downplaying the hurt he causes Hermione.

[seriousbrat]

You're so right about all of this and as a fan of the Marauders as well as Snape it's so hard to find fics that portray Snape in a way that is AT ALL sympathetic or reasonable. You'll find woobified Rosier and Barty who imo aren't deserving of sympathy at all before finding just a normal well-rounded Snape that isn't a sociopath. I don't believe in excusing his actions but like. You? Don't have to? In order to portray him as the complex character that he is. Like not having an ounce of sympathy in portrayals of a bullied, abused boy- and even rewriting the text to imply that he deserved the bullying in the first place is... A Lot. because as you've said he's frequently made out to be randomly homophobic in a story that, to be frank, probs does not need a contrived and insensitive homophobia plot shoehorned in just to add drama.

There's no canon evidence to support this. If he had been intended to be homophobic wouldn't there have been, idk, SOMETHING in his interactions with the only confirmed gay character in the series, probably the character he interacts with most besides Harry?

I mean if I'm being real it is the 70s and I guess DE characters could be homophobic. Personally I see Snape as not giving a shit either way lol but the real question is to what extent is this necessary? To me homophobia plots sometimes just feel kind of... Idk flippant and excessive, ESPECIALLY when there's clearly an ulterior motive behind their inclusion beyond just exploring a sensitive subject, which in this case essentially is to victim-blame Snape. (I imagine the same might go for racism or transphobia plots but since I have no personal experience with that the way I do homophobia I won't speak for others)

As you've so rightly pointed out he's got plenty of canon flaws already to work from so what is even the point? And he literally is brilliant like he's extremely intelligent IN CANON bro it drives me maaaad when he's just this blundering belligerent oaf who is randomly evil and violent to everyone for no reason. If Lily disliked James for hexing random people, why would she be friends with Snape if he was also doing it but worse? Wouldn't this have come up when she confronts him? Like I think it's pretty fair to say that at least prior to SWM he was not doing anything of the sort? Gah

All this to say it's equally as frustrating for me as a Marauders fan!!!! Tbh I used to be a snater (over 10 yrs ago rip but still) and it was seeing so many people whitewashing the characters I DID like and justifying/downplaying bullying that made me start liking him and becoming interested in him hahaha. And that was years ago, now it's morphed into something so totally unrecognisable that it's just boring. I mean write Snape Is Basically Voldemort AUs all you like, but it's just that, it's not canon compliant.

If there was ever a spinoff (which I doubt, at least for many years) Snape would absolutely be a main character, as he should be, and if they do their job properly they'd portray him as the complex, interesting, morally grey, occasionally sympathetic anti-hero that he is so like too bad lol

It's so funny to see a certain type of Marauder stans outright say they want a Marauders Era Netflix series or something of the like – but JKR, the actual creator of the characters, shouldn't be be involved in it at all because she would ruin her own characters and 'give the Snape stans more fuel' etc. They so honestly and unashamedly proclaim that essentially, what they would want out of a hypothetical Marauders era series is not an expansion of canon but a professionally made, high-budget fanfiction that explicitly deviates from canon.

I mean... These people are really out here admitting that they exclusively stan fanfiction versions of their 'favorite' characters. They're really out here admitting they don't actually even like their faves – and ironically also admitting that canon Snape is not as irredeemably awful as their fanon and headcanons make him out to be, since they acknowledge that a story by JKR would portray him more sympathetically than he generally is in the Marauders part of the fandom.

[fedonciadale]

Hello, could you give your opinions about the Marauders, specifically about Sirius and Remus as characters? I am one of the very few people who doesn’t ship Wolfstar and doesn’t see Remus as the stereotypical nice, fluffy, shy gay man with no flaws or nuances, nor Sirius as the flamboyant and extremely eccentric guy. It actually baffles me how Wolfstar is so widely accepted as canon, even when canon establishes that those two distrusted each other (Sirius believed Remus to be the spy, and Remus started to doubt Sirius’ innocence only when he saw Peter’s name on the Map), not to mention the Prank and the fact that Sirius explicitly says that he doesn’t regret it (“...you see, Sirius here played a trick on him which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me —”Black made a derisive noise. “It served him right,” he sneered. “Sneaking around, trying to find out what we were up to...hoping he could get us expelled...”. Remus could have become a murderer thanks to him) and Sirius’ insensitivity towards Remus’ problem (“I’m bored,” said Sirius. “Wish it was full moon.” “You might,” said Lupin darkly from behind his book.). I don’t know about you, but this doesn’t scream romance to me. If anything, I believe Sirius could have had a crush on James, not Remus. How is it that the vast majority of the fandom ships them, going as far as believing it to be indisputably canon, and accuses everyone who doesn’t of homophobia? Sometimes, I think that Rowling’s black-and-white view applies to almost every fan. Not everyone of course, but so many are either Romione or anti Ron, either pro Marauders and vehemently anti Snape or vice versa, and the grey areas are never recognized. It’s frustrating! Sorry for the rant, hahah.

Hi there!

I certainly agree about the tendency of the fandom to overlook the grey areas or if you point them out you are accused of either whitewashing the villains or blemishing the heroes. It can be somewhat exhausting....

Anyway. The marauders. I realize that your question probably means that I walk on thin ice given how popular the marauders are.

A part of me gets it. When I first read the books and just gobbled up Harry’s PoV I really liked Sirius. What a cool godfather! Handsome, a motor bike, the opposite of the stuffy Dursleys, etc. And by book 3 we only learn that Severus Snape almost walked in on a newly changed WolfRemus and that James saved him in the very last minute. I really changed my opinion on Sirius later.

In contrast to Sirius, I still like Remus Lupin. I think he was the responsible one and should have detained his friends far more often, but I think in general he has matured well. I like the scene where he tells Harry that he should be careful with his life because his parents died for him. Also you can see, that he actually reaches out to Harry and he seems to be a good teacher and is one of the few adults in HP that is actually helpful. Remus is by far my most fav marauder.

We only learn more about the marauders with time. And the more I thought about the marauders the more I realized that I would absolutely have hated them if I had been at school with them. Irresponsible, bullying  (four against one), pranking, arrogant, probably never doing their homeworks and still getting good grades, carrying their ‘being gifted and rich’ on their sleeves, never adhering to rules, never getting into trouble because of it etc.

And in regard to how the marauders behave to Harry, I tend to side-eye them as well. I think Hermione is right when she accuses Sirius of mistaking Harry for James and I think Harry is right when he chastises Remus for trying to join the Horcrcux hunt when his wife is pregnant.

So, that being said, the one thing we know about the marauders which is good is that they joined the Order and fought against Voldemort. And they are ready to do quite a lot. Remus infiltrates the werewolves (can’t be that nice to hang around with Greyback) and Sirius is ready to fight for the order, he even swallows the fact that Snape is part of the order. He is not the best at hiding his contempt but neither is Snape. And in this situation they are both grown men and it’s one against one. So I don’t dislike their fights in TOotP as much as I dislike the bullying in school. And with their history it is almost impossible that they get along.

While I can’t see anything nice about the marauders as students Sirius and Remus do have redeeming qualities in the books and unlike James whose turn for the better we never get to see, we see both actually caring for people. And I wouldn’t even blame them for not caring about everyone, because we humans usually don’t manage that. Sirius is horrible to Kreacher but he is nice to Harry and I think that he actually has layers far beyond the ‘cool godfather’.

So, when I had finished the books, I saw Sirius as a grey character. And thinking about the whole betrayal of the Potters I had come to the following conclusion: Sirius was gay and in love with James (and unlike other things I did not blame JKR for not writing that openly, because at the time HP was written, children’s books couldn’t have homosexual relationships). While James might have been oblivious to the depth of Sirius’ feelings, Remus was not and neither was Dumbledore. Remus sort of knew that for Sirius, James would always come first, and Dumbledore had been in that place, so to say. When the Potters died and nobody but Sirius, James, Lily and Peter had been in the know about the switch of the secret keeper, everybody jumped to the conclusion that Sirius was indeed the traitor. Why? Well, Sirius had been the member of a family connected to Voldemort, but he had left this family behind and it made no sense that he suddenly would embrace his family’s legacy. I think Remus believed that Sirius had been the traitor because he finally snapped because of his unrequited love, and that is why he only believed that Sirius might be innocent when he saw Peter Pettigrew. Before that, he was extremely frightened for Harry and actually thought Sirius would kill Harry if given the chance.

So, that is obviously not in the text but has been my interpretation for quite some time. So, I agree that Sirius loved James.

That leads me to your question about WolfStar. Since I’m not a Remadora shipper, I’m sort of neutral towards the ship. The only basis in canon I see is their emotional reunion after it becomes clear that Peter was the traitor and not Sirius. And I sort of get why people take this and run from there.

I would argue though that canon hands us rather a few arguments why the ship doesn’t make sense. That Remus gets with Tonks in canon is not really an argument, because he could always have been with Sirius before that. Canon evidence against this is rather that for Sirius it was always James who was the most important member of the marauders. And while I can sort of buy that Remus as a teenager did not see how extremely dangerous the ‘prank’ Sirius played on Snape was, I think that the mature person we see in PoA would really, really hate that ‘prank’. Sirius basically tried to trick Remus into killing Snape or transforming him into a werewolf, when Remus himself was probably deeply traumatized by his own experience. It is quite clear that Remus hates being a werewolf - you could argue even up to a point where he forgets to take the drug that will make him harmless.

So, I don’t really vibe with the ship, like not at all, and I don’t think they make sense, not to me, not with how the characters are by the time of canon, but that is obviously irrelevant for fanon. People can twist canon, run with it, invent deleted scenes and that is all no problem for me.

There are so many things in canon HP that are a problem that I actually think we should be careful with using the argument ‘it is not canon’, because it is also canon that the elves are happy to be slaves, that squibs are discriminated against, that werewolves do not get the medicine they need, and that everyone is o.k. with it.

TLDR: I dislike the marauders and I don’t really vibe with WolfStar. I think Sirius was in love with James and didn’t actually care that much for Remus. But this is my interpretation. As for fanon Wolfstar: I just ignore it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks for the ask!

[maybeshesnaped]

(1/2) Extremely controversial opinion: I think there are more Draco apologists on tumblr than Snape apologists. Snape apologists were mostly on LJ back in the day, but not anymore. Some still exist, but I've seen many Snape fans acknowledge Snape was a character who did bad things; they give reasons but not excuses. However, I can't go several days without seeing at least one post where a Draco fan cries about how "he was just a brainwashed boy with no choice who wanted to impress his daddy."

(2/2) They make up fanon bs like Draco being abused or treated badly by his father when there’s no indication of it in canon. Draco’s parents loved him. Not to mention how hypocritical it is to say Snape’s impoverished and rough background doesn’t excuse his actions, but claim Draco’s supposed nonexistent sad backstory excuses his. So much of the fandom whitewashes Draco’s serious flaws because he’s young, pretty, and shipped with popular characters and no one wants to say it. Okay, rant over.

I think “apologists” isn’t an applicable term when it comes to fictional characters. It has very negative connotations (like “rape apologist”) and we’re talking about characters from a children’s book here, so let’s just say pro and anti. I hate it when snaters call me an apologist, as if I’m stanning Hitler or something.

Anyways, I agree with your take, the fact that Draco is this young pretty boy (Tom Felton didn’t help this case, but at least he disagrees with Draco loving fans) is the reason why they excuse him and make up stuff to excuse his horrible and nasty anti-muggle attitude. When all that stuff they make up are actually true about Snape, but he’s just an ugly hook nosed git so it doesn’t matter. 

Draco is a boy abused by his parents and surroundings into becoming a purist, who in the end saw the error of his ways and repented? No. That’s word for word Snape. Draco is the one who felt joy in calling people mudbloods and wanting them dead, and who, in the end, felt that killing someone was a bit much.