#anora/celene

[dolores-slay]

he he he. my worldstate has created the optimal conditions for a toxic yuri bilateral ménage à trois

[leliwardens]

in love with the fact in trespasser arl teagan goes on about how ferelden refuses to bend a knee to the foreign orlesian power of the inquisition while the camera pans over slightly to his side to see leliana as the divine, leader of a foreign orlesian power, who is in a semi-public committed relationship with the queen/prince-consort of ferelden, that she later makes fully public and fully legal by chantry law

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

I'm continuing my DAO replay and like....... are we just not going to talk about the fact that Anora's handmaiden is Orlesian?

I'm sorry, how did the Queen of Fereldan end up with an Orlesian handmaid? Did Loghain approve of that? Because I bet he sure didn't! Given everything about him, I bet he threw a real stink about that! And yet, Erlina is close enough to Anora to beg the wardens to save her after she's locked up by Howe, appearing entirely loyal to her.

So I broke out the World of Thedas vol2 to see if it said something in there about her and I couldn't find anything. All the wiki has to say is, "Erlina is the handmaiden of Queen Anora. Not much is known about her background but she apparently escaped from Orlais. Arl Eamon suspects that she is more than a simple servant."

Gee, ya think, Eamon?

I just find that to be a very interesting detail, one that has my theorist gears cranking and spinning.

[niofo]

thinking from a doylist perspective at the ferelden succession crisis, i think everything is leading towards collapsing all the worldstates soon enough. currently we have 5 different possibilities for ferelden rulers: alistair and anora either alone, together or with cousland, out of those 2 of them are grey wardens and one is rumored to be infertile, and there's no info about any of them having a kid by dai. except for kieran but like, apart from morrigan not wanting him involved, he might not even exist or be born to a warden with no bearing on ferelden politics. and while the issue of him being the ogb or not don't seem to matter anymore, there's too many possibilities to involve him with ferelden monarchy canonically.

so, my assumption are as follow:

1. there can be another theirin sibling or cousin showing up, but we already played this scenario with alistair, it would be lazy writing to try it again.

2. whoever is on the throne just adopting a child and teaching them how to rule. that way we can have a possible next ruler with a consistent looks and backstory no matter how dao ended. there would prob be slight differences based on who their adoptive parent is, but still way more consistent.

3. there being another invasion or coup ending up with an entirely new line on the throne. which would be sad ending to whoever was ruling ferelden for the last 20 or so years, but would create an entirely new and concise setup.

either way i think the most sense would be to let theirin bloodline go. there's too much different things that could go with it, and while there are ways of preserving it in some worldstates, it would be way more difficult in others. and with how big deal the bloodline is (according to the gaider comics - all the connections to dragons) i think we need to let it go as a whole.

possibly one option i can see is someone recreating what calenhad did, and mixing their blood with a great dragon - now that dragons are coming back and it would possibly mean also great dragons. so we could end up with a new family of op ferelden reavers, making the question if theirins survive or not less pressing.

[illusivesoul]

One of the lines that annoy me the most in Dragon Age is Cailan's "Our arguments with the orlesians are a thing of the past" My dude, you can't just sweep the brutal occupation your country and people endured just 30 years ago and that is still very fresh in their minds under the rug. I'm still not sure if Cailan was really planning to marry Celene or not, but with the way he acts before the battle of Ostagar, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Part of me makes me wish it would have happened just to see the shitstorm that Ferelden would turn into. "Hi, people of Ferelden. Good news. I am marrying the Empress of Orlais! I know some of you are still kind of bitter over the war and occupation that ended just 30 years ago, but you'll have to cope and deal with it, ok? Love you lots" *insert angry mob of citizens and soldiers entering the Palace and overthrowing Cailan and making Anora sole queen and ruler of Ferelden, aka, the good ending*

[redlyriumidol]

So it's implied that Cailan was planning on divorcing Anora to marry Celene. First of all it's interesting that the Chantry is so permissive of divorce but good for them I guess. (are there any canon examples of divorce??) Perhaps it's like the catholic church where if you have enough power/money you can appeal to the Divine for an annulment.

Second I think it would have added a lot of sense to Loghain's motivations if the implication had been the idea to have Anora assassinated to get her out of the way, even if it was only hypothetical. I don't think Cailan in canon would have been willing to kill Anora, but it would have been interesting for him to have been a character who would. Celene I think is definitely capable. Tbh a reveal like that would have added a lot of ~grey morality~ to the situation and made both Loghain and Anora more sympathetic characters, especially if Loghain suspects it prior to Ostagar.

[celemee]

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Dragon Age - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Anora Mac Tir/Celene Valmont Characters: Anora Mac Tir, Celene Valmont, Briala (Dragon Age), A bunch of OCs Additional Tags: Previous Briala/Celene, Background Briala/Celene, What if everyone was awful, in their own special way?, Don’t look at the timeline because it’s drunk and doesn’t know when it is set, ‘Get out of jail free’ Orlesian murder coins., Assassination attempt., Fereldan Orlesian tensions, Celene lies, Briala calls Celene out, Anora is on the struggle boat, Mentions of Previous Anora/Cailan, So Anora does technically do a murder, but it's not graphic Series: Part 3 of Rituals!Verse - Ciriane Inspirations Summary:

“The King has only appointed two elves, to minor nobility.” The voice of the Empress snapped back, curt and sharp as a drawn dagger.

“By my count that is still two more than you.” The unfamiliar woman’s voice replied, matching Celene’s vicious snarl.

Anora had not expected to find herself eavesdropping on the conversation behind a heavy velveteen curtain in the Grande Royeaux Theatre. Of course, she’d begrudgingly made her peace with that gut-wrenching twist of fate that had landed her in Val Royeaux. It was specifically the curtain that she had not expected.

***

Where Anora finally meets Briala.

----

FIC REC FIC REC FIC REC!

Check out this amazing, multilayered story and series where an exiled Anora finds sanctuary in Orlais. There’s a ton of worldbuilding that leaves the story feeling rich; everything has its background, everything has purpose. The characters have complicated dynamics that are food for my soul. They leave me guessing as to what their true motives are. All in all, this series is an intriguing read; each update stays with me for days.

By the brilliant @hezjena!

[potatoesandsunshine]

sometimes the unhappy marriage of the rulers of ferelden.... is something that can be so personal

[clavicuss-vile]

thinking about that one quote from Celene about Anora being "a rose among thorns" and imagining Queen Anora attending some gathering in a not-so-subtle dress embroidered with thorns with bracelets and jewellery also designed to mimic thorns and bramble

[inquisitorismone]

since i can't stop thinking about ferelden politics, the idea that cailan was going to leave anora for empress celene is so insane on so many levels, the first of which being that celene is older than anora, the second of which being if the KING OF FERELDEN married the EMPRESS OF ORLAIS then. frankly. the people really WOULD HAVE supported loghain's betrayal of cailan

[dalishious]

Reclaiming Independence of the Dales

Before anything else, I’d just like to clarify that that vast majority of this is made of my own ideas, based on interpretation from the little canonical information provided, and a little inspired by my own people’s history and governing structure. Additionally, what I am presenting here is an ideal situation, not necessarily what I think is an immediately realistic outcome in the world-state established. So, please keep that in mind.

The Dales were established as a homeland for elves—a small piece of a continent that was once called their home in its entirety, before the humans colonized it—by Maferath in -165 Ancient. This was in reward for the eleven people’s participation in the fight against Ancient Tevinter. But in 2:10 Glory, Divine Renata I broke this treaty and declared an Exalted March against the Dales, ending in its annexation by Orlais.

[Related Post: All You Need to Know about the Exalted March of the Dales]

If Solas has very low approval with Inquisitor Lavellan, and Lavellan accuses him of not doing enough to help their people, he will say the following: “You could order Halamshiral returned to the Dalish, if you wished. But ultimately, you know that would fail. That even you cannot solve this.” I hate this with a burning passion. The reason I can’t do that, Solas, is because it’s not an option in the game! Why are you as a character angry at me, the player, for not doing something that is not an option for me to do? Why was this written? Just to push the point that it’s not worth it to try and fight back against oppression? Because if I refuse to accept hopelessness in real life, why would I in accept it in a video game where the story is made-up, and therefore anything is possible if the developers so wish it.

Regardless, according to Solas, the Inquisition has enough power to support the reclamation of an independent Dales. I imagine this would require a lot of political maneuvering within the Orlesian governance, and therefore I think the best opportunity to do this would be with Briala ruling through Gaspard. This would then later open the door for Briala to be the leader of the newly independent Dales, too. I would like to see Briala as ruler of the Dales not just because she is a favourite of mine, but because I genuinely believe she is the best established character fit for the job. She was trained in everything Celene was trained in, has first-hand experience in court, has extensive connections, and has demonstrated her ability and desire to utilize these skills and assets for the benefit of elven kind.

Briala’s blackmail on Gaspard may help prevent Orlais from invading again while under his rule, but to last longer, the Dales would need to establish itself as a strong, independent Nation with allies. This is why I believe it would also be important to have Leliana as Divine Victoria in such a world-state where this could happen. Leliana re-canonizes the Canticle of Shartan, and in making it available for the common person to understand, would ideally help sway the minds of the average Andrastian into supporting the Dales’s independence. The nobility would of course be much trickier, because they and the Chantry are the ones who actually benefitted from its annexation—but there is little they would be able to actually accomplish if they did not have the power of the people behind them.

As far as allies go, Ferelden could only gain from Orlais losing control of the Dales, because it would mean cutting Orlais off from a lot of Ferelden’s border, therefore reducing the threat of another invasion. Additionally, a leader with just plain good morals like say, Alistair, would easily accept the elven kingdom’s return. But even Anora is willing to grant part of the Korcari Wilds to the Dalish if Mahariel requests it, and while this sadly doesn’t last, it does show a positive sign into her potentially being open to the idea of an independent Dales as well.

I sincerely doubt that all Dalish clans would return to the Dales and re-settle down. After all, they have developed differentiating cultures over the years of wandering in separated groups, with different ideals and different ways of life that they might not want to give up. But many would return, and that would likely create conflict between the elves coming from the Dalish clans and the elves coming from the cities. We know that some prejudice exists against “flat-ears” as some Dalish call those from the city, and we know that city elves have adopted a lot of misinformation from humans into their views of the Dalish. It would take time and positive leadership to reconnect the people, without risking falling into some sort of hierarchy based on origin. This is why I do not believe one group or the other should single-handedly rule alone. Rather, I think there should be a Grand Council of High Keepers made up of those voted into the position each to represent a single district of the Dales. (I like the idea of there being seven High Keepers, not just because there are seven traditional districts of Mi’kma’ki, but because it works out that there seven of the Creators. So it makes sense that there would be seven High Keepers.) The Grand Council would meet and make decisions together, with one appointed leader at the head to act as the Council’s chair.

In terms of protection and order, the Emerald Knights should be reformed. This would include the Fade Hunters, to protect the people against demons and maleficarum, with there being no Circles or Templars.

Restoring the independence of the Dales would lead to a revival of elven culture in ways that could never happen before, because they would actually be free to pursue re-learning the language, re-discovering the history and culture, and sharing it all amongst each other. They would not have to fear arrest the crime of simply being an elf.  

But what of the other races presently living in the Dales? I see no reason why they would have to leave, so long as they would be willing to follow the Grand Council’s leadership. I imagine many nobility would flee to Orlais, simply because they would not stand for it. But for the average human or surface dwarf, their life wouldn’t really even change much; they’d still be managing their farms the same as always. Hell, it might even improve things for them, assuming the Grand Council gives fairer treatment than the nobility previously.

[idkjustsomegames]

It's interesting that Dragon Age RPG book also mentions it:

Before Cailan’s death while battling darkspawn at Ostagar, there were murmurs that Cailan might be wise to put his queen, Anora, aside. Anora had yet to bear Cailan any sons and for the first time in hundreds of years, the Theirin line was without a legitimate heir. If, perhaps, Cailan and Celene were to make a match, the truce between Ferelden and Orlais could be solidified, and a future war of succession avoided.

I don't know how much Bioware collaborated with Green Ronin, but I guess they had to approve of the book. Although I don't think you can treat it like World of Thedas as a canon source.

@komsomolka okay so it’s more political than i maybe implied here and it’s slightly up for debate bc i’m not sure if anything specifically confirms it but this codex entry that you find during return to ostagar, combined with a letter from arl eamon urging cailan to set anora aside for infertility, is what heavily implies it

it’s the overly familiar tone, addressing him by first name only (a previous more formal letter shows you how it should be written), talk of a “permanent alliance”, etc. when you find this codex loghain immediately reads it as a plot for a marriage alliance and calls cailan a cheating bastard who was going to hand ferelden over to orlais so he could strut about and call himself emperor (thats me quoting not being aggressively anti cailan lmao). and the only real defense wynne can offer is that the alliance might have brought peace so i find it hard not to agree with loghain’s interpretation on this one

alistair and wynne don’t pick up on this in the same way as far as i recall and can see, so it’s easy to miss if you don’t bring loghain. i read somewhere that this was actually all supposed to be a bigger plot point in the main game that got cut, although i can’t find a proper source for that rn so don’t quote me on it

[eastern-lights]

I know Loghain's betrayal is very open to intepretation motivation-wise (mostly because he himself tells us fuck all even if the Warden befriends him), but there still seems to be a lot of straight up misconceptions.

For one, I don't believe for a moment that Cailan dying was his plan all along.

I've seen the opinion that his desertion was premeditated because he's a papa wolf who knew how badly Cailan treated Anora. This isn't really that out of character, but as we see in Return to Ostagar, Loghain had no idea Cailan was planning on marrying Celene.

Another proof of premeditation that I've seen is the fact that he had Eamon poisoned. Now, I'm not defending that course of action in the slightest, but I don't think it was connected with Cailan's death. What we're forgetting is that Loghain and Eamon had personal beef. Eamon was a traditionalist who resented commoners in positions of power. He didn't much care that Loghain and his wife had been elevated to nobility, to him, Anora was the daughter of a freeholder and a cabinet-maker. And Loghain knew that, just as he knew Eamon had Cailan's ear. He didn't for one moment trust Eamon to give Cailangood advice, so he made sure Eamon was ot of the picture long enough for the crisis to subside (remember, the poison wasn't actually lethal).

Now here's my own two cents:

The most important thing to know about Loghain is that he loved King Maric. It doesn't matter whether you interpret that love as platonic or romantic. From the day he became a soldier, almost everything Loghain did was in some way motivated by his devotion to Maric and I believe Cailan's death is no different.

During the rebellion, at the battle of West Hill, Loghain faced a choice that amounted to saving Maric or saving the army. He chose Maric. And afterward, Maric was wracked by survivor's guilt so bad he made him promise he would never do that again.

Paired with other factors, like the signal fire being delayed due to a certain ogre incident at the Tower of Ishal, I think Loghain looked at the battlefield and saw that same choice. And he remembered his promise.

It wasn't that he hated Cailan and wanted him dead (if you read the Calling, you learn that for the three years after Queen Rowan's death, he was more of a father to him than Maric was). It was just that to Loghain Mac Tir, there is nothing more sacred than a promise made to Maric Theirin.

[gaywoso]

How old will characters be in Dragon Age: The Veilguard, if it is 9:54 Dragon?

Provided these characters are still alive or exist in the first place. There are other estimates out there but this is my best shot based off evidence and a little bit of vibes. Mostly made to reference. I figured to share if anybody else might find this helpful.

Player Characters:

Amell Warden: 42

Hawke: 48

Inquisition Companions/Advisors:

Blackwall: 55

Cassandra: 50

Cole: ????

Cullen: 43 (canon)

Dorian: 43 (canon)

Iron Bull: 51

Josephine: 41

Leliana: 49

Sera: 33

Solas: ????

Varric: 53 (canon)

Vivienne: 57 (canon)

Other Characters:

Alistair: 44 (canon)

Anders: 54

Anora: 48

Aveline: 57

Bethany or Carver Hawke: 43 (canon)

Briala: 48

Cailan: 49 (canon)

Celene: 50 (canon)

Charade: 41

Fenris: 54

Fiona: 64

Florianne: 67 (canon)

Gaspard: 80 (canon)

Isabela: 53 (canon)

Justice: ????

Kieran: 23 if he exists

Loghain: 77

Merrill: 50

Mhairi: 43

Morrigan: 50

Nathaniel: 53 (canon)

Oghren: 64

Sebastian: 53

Sigrun: 48

Sten: 66

Velanna: 48

Wynne: dead, would be 71 supposedly

Zevran: 49

Final note: nobody I care about is allowed to die, ty Bioware

[dragonagepolls]

@songofamazon

[the-cryptographer]

Anora in armour commission from @triflingshadows. Thank you!!

This is based on @hezjena‘s amazing fic The Exiled Queen. Where an exiled Anora shows up to Celene’s court decked out in armour. (The design is a combo of the Arms of Mac Tir and Ash Warrior armours from DA2.) Also there are violets and other sapphic imagery and shenanigans! I highly recommend giving it a look!