#anora/celene

[leliwardens]

in love with the fact in trespasser arl teagan goes on about how ferelden refuses to bend a knee to the foreign orlesian power of the inquisition while the camera pans over slightly to his side to see leliana as the divine, leader of a foreign orlesian power, who is in a semi-public committed relationship with the queen/prince-consort of ferelden, that she later makes fully public and fully legal by chantry law

[dolores-slay]

he he he. my worldstate has created the optimal conditions for a toxic yuri bilateral ménage à trois

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

I'm continuing my DAO replay and like....... are we just not going to talk about the fact that Anora's handmaiden is Orlesian?

I'm sorry, how did the Queen of Fereldan end up with an Orlesian handmaid? Did Loghain approve of that? Because I bet he sure didn't! Given everything about him, I bet he threw a real stink about that! And yet, Erlina is close enough to Anora to beg the wardens to save her after she's locked up by Howe, appearing entirely loyal to her.

So I broke out the World of Thedas vol2 to see if it said something in there about her and I couldn't find anything. All the wiki has to say is, "Erlina is the handmaiden of Queen Anora. Not much is known about her background but she apparently escaped from Orlais. Arl Eamon suspects that she is more than a simple servant."

Gee, ya think, Eamon?

I just find that to be a very interesting detail, one that has my theorist gears cranking and spinning.

[niofo]

thinking from a doylist perspective at the ferelden succession crisis, i think everything is leading towards collapsing all the worldstates soon enough. currently we have 5 different possibilities for ferelden rulers: alistair and anora either alone, together or with cousland, out of those 2 of them are grey wardens and one is rumored to be infertile, and there's no info about any of them having a kid by dai. except for kieran but like, apart from morrigan not wanting him involved, he might not even exist or be born to a warden with no bearing on ferelden politics. and while the issue of him being the ogb or not don't seem to matter anymore, there's too many possibilities to involve him with ferelden monarchy canonically.

so, my assumption are as follow:

1. there can be another theirin sibling or cousin showing up, but we already played this scenario with alistair, it would be lazy writing to try it again.

2. whoever is on the throne just adopting a child and teaching them how to rule. that way we can have a possible next ruler with a consistent looks and backstory no matter how dao ended. there would prob be slight differences based on who their adoptive parent is, but still way more consistent.

3. there being another invasion or coup ending up with an entirely new line on the throne. which would be sad ending to whoever was ruling ferelden for the last 20 or so years, but would create an entirely new and concise setup.

either way i think the most sense would be to let theirin bloodline go. there's too much different things that could go with it, and while there are ways of preserving it in some worldstates, it would be way more difficult in others. and with how big deal the bloodline is (according to the gaider comics - all the connections to dragons) i think we need to let it go as a whole.

possibly one option i can see is someone recreating what calenhad did, and mixing their blood with a great dragon - now that dragons are coming back and it would possibly mean also great dragons. so we could end up with a new family of op ferelden reavers, making the question if theirins survive or not less pressing.

[mercysought]

[[ DON'T LOOK AT MY FACE. For Anora. ]] Years of work, of toiling. Keeping the fool afloat on his throne. And he was going to throw you away.

Celene could have given Cailan everything you never did. A child. Peace. A marriage without jealousy. Eamon was right.

You will always need a King beside you. Your father gave everything for Ferelden. But his blood pales in shine. And his country will never love you alone.

relationship questions (these were anon, totally anon, woo) // accepting // @valorcorrupt

   "Where are they now?"

She asks because it is the only question left to ask. She had punished herself for years. Punished herself for being the best queen she could be whilst keeping everything else from falling apart. A good queen when she could not be a good wife, could not be the mother that they wanted her to be. Having to deal with the embarrassment and shame.

Undermined first by the family of the man that she had once loved. Undermined by the man himself that had been king and yet allowed her to toil in the shadows; and then, finally, as if for the killing blow: by her own father. Knowing what she had known of Celene she was sure that she would have provided him a marriage without jealously, but it would have been nothing but a sham. A sham not because they would never love each other, but a sham because it would have been just another play for Ferelden.

Occupation through proxy. Over her dead fucking body.

   "Cailan. Celene. Eamon. Even my father." she pauses.

There were many things that she had regretted to have allowed to happen during the Fifth blight. Many. But the one that seared into her own heart was that her father should have been successful at killing Eamon. If there was one man that had deserved that poison: it had been him "Where are they now?"

Dead. They were all dead.

   "I am Ferelden." and while it would hurt, she knew that Ferelden's love did not come freely, the love and trust of her people were hard won and felt like sharp stones in her hands were she to mishandle. But they were still her people and she was their Queen "I will pick up any gauntlet thrown my way and survive. Celene once said I was a solitary rose among brambles. I can assure you that if my People are brambles then I am all thorns."

[illusivesoul]

One of the lines that annoy me the most in Dragon Age is Cailan's "Our arguments with the orlesians are a thing of the past" My dude, you can't just sweep the brutal occupation your country and people endured just 30 years ago and that is still very fresh in their minds under the rug. I'm still not sure if Cailan was really planning to marry Celene or not, but with the way he acts before the battle of Ostagar, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Part of me makes me wish it would have happened just to see the shitstorm that Ferelden would turn into. "Hi, people of Ferelden. Good news. I am marrying the Empress of Orlais! I know some of you are still kind of bitter over the war and occupation that ended just 30 years ago, but you'll have to cope and deal with it, ok? Love you lots" *insert angry mob of citizens and soldiers entering the Palace and overthrowing Cailan and making Anora sole queen and ruler of Ferelden, aka, the good ending*

[redlyriumidol]

So it's implied that Cailan was planning on divorcing Anora to marry Celene. First of all it's interesting that the Chantry is so permissive of divorce but good for them I guess. (are there any canon examples of divorce??) Perhaps it's like the catholic church where if you have enough power/money you can appeal to the Divine for an annulment.

Second I think it would have added a lot of sense to Loghain's motivations if the implication had been the idea to have Anora assassinated to get her out of the way, even if it was only hypothetical. I don't think Cailan in canon would have been willing to kill Anora, but it would have been interesting for him to have been a character who would. Celene I think is definitely capable. Tbh a reveal like that would have added a lot of ~grey morality~ to the situation and made both Loghain and Anora more sympathetic characters, especially if Loghain suspects it prior to Ostagar.

[celemee]

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Dragon Age - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Anora Mac Tir/Celene Valmont Characters: Anora Mac Tir, Celene Valmont, Briala (Dragon Age), A bunch of OCs Additional Tags: Previous Briala/Celene, Background Briala/Celene, What if everyone was awful, in their own special way?, Don’t look at the timeline because it’s drunk and doesn’t know when it is set, ‘Get out of jail free’ Orlesian murder coins., Assassination attempt., Fereldan Orlesian tensions, Celene lies, Briala calls Celene out, Anora is on the struggle boat, Mentions of Previous Anora/Cailan, So Anora does technically do a murder, but it's not graphic Series: Part 3 of Rituals!Verse - Ciriane Inspirations Summary:

“The King has only appointed two elves, to minor nobility.” The voice of the Empress snapped back, curt and sharp as a drawn dagger.

“By my count that is still two more than you.” The unfamiliar woman’s voice replied, matching Celene’s vicious snarl.

Anora had not expected to find herself eavesdropping on the conversation behind a heavy velveteen curtain in the Grande Royeaux Theatre. Of course, she’d begrudgingly made her peace with that gut-wrenching twist of fate that had landed her in Val Royeaux. It was specifically the curtain that she had not expected.

***

Where Anora finally meets Briala.

----

FIC REC FIC REC FIC REC!

Check out this amazing, multilayered story and series where an exiled Anora finds sanctuary in Orlais. There’s a ton of worldbuilding that leaves the story feeling rich; everything has its background, everything has purpose. The characters have complicated dynamics that are food for my soul. They leave me guessing as to what their true motives are. All in all, this series is an intriguing read; each update stays with me for days.

By the brilliant @hezjena!

[potatoesandsunshine]

sometimes the unhappy marriage of the rulers of ferelden.... is something that can be so personal

[clavicuss-vile]

thinking about that one quote from Celene about Anora being "a rose among thorns" and imagining Queen Anora attending some gathering in a not-so-subtle dress embroidered with thorns with bracelets and jewellery also designed to mimic thorns and bramble

[inquisitorismone]

since i can't stop thinking about ferelden politics, the idea that cailan was going to leave anora for empress celene is so insane on so many levels, the first of which being that celene is older than anora, the second of which being if the KING OF FERELDEN married the EMPRESS OF ORLAIS then. frankly. the people really WOULD HAVE supported loghain's betrayal of cailan

[dalishious]

Reclaiming Independence of the Dales

Before anything else, I’d just like to clarify that that vast majority of this is made of my own ideas, based on interpretation from the little canonical information provided, and a little inspired by my own people’s history and governing structure. Additionally, what I am presenting here is an ideal situation, not necessarily what I think is an immediately realistic outcome in the world-state established. So, please keep that in mind.

The Dales were established as a homeland for elves—a small piece of a continent that was once called their home in its entirety, before the humans colonized it—by Maferath in -165 Ancient. This was in reward for the eleven people’s participation in the fight against Ancient Tevinter. But in 2:10 Glory, Divine Renata I broke this treaty and declared an Exalted March against the Dales, ending in its annexation by Orlais.

[Related Post: All You Need to Know about the Exalted March of the Dales]

If Solas has very low approval with Inquisitor Lavellan, and Lavellan accuses him of not doing enough to help their people, he will say the following: “You could order Halamshiral returned to the Dalish, if you wished. But ultimately, you know that would fail. That even you cannot solve this.” I hate this with a burning passion. The reason I can’t do that, Solas, is because it’s not an option in the game! Why are you as a character angry at me, the player, for not doing something that is not an option for me to do? Why was this written? Just to push the point that it’s not worth it to try and fight back against oppression? Because if I refuse to accept hopelessness in real life, why would I in accept it in a video game where the story is made-up, and therefore anything is possible if the developers so wish it.

Regardless, according to Solas, the Inquisition has enough power to support the reclamation of an independent Dales. I imagine this would require a lot of political maneuvering within the Orlesian governance, and therefore I think the best opportunity to do this would be with Briala ruling through Gaspard. This would then later open the door for Briala to be the leader of the newly independent Dales, too. I would like to see Briala as ruler of the Dales not just because she is a favourite of mine, but because I genuinely believe she is the best established character fit for the job. She was trained in everything Celene was trained in, has first-hand experience in court, has extensive connections, and has demonstrated her ability and desire to utilize these skills and assets for the benefit of elven kind.

Briala’s blackmail on Gaspard may help prevent Orlais from invading again while under his rule, but to last longer, the Dales would need to establish itself as a strong, independent Nation with allies. This is why I believe it would also be important to have Leliana as Divine Victoria in such a world-state where this could happen. Leliana re-canonizes the Canticle of Shartan, and in making it available for the common person to understand, would ideally help sway the minds of the average Andrastian into supporting the Dales’s independence. The nobility would of course be much trickier, because they and the Chantry are the ones who actually benefitted from its annexation—but there is little they would be able to actually accomplish if they did not have the power of the people behind them.

As far as allies go, Ferelden could only gain from Orlais losing control of the Dales, because it would mean cutting Orlais off from a lot of Ferelden’s border, therefore reducing the threat of another invasion. Additionally, a leader with just plain good morals like say, Alistair, would easily accept the elven kingdom’s return. But even Anora is willing to grant part of the Korcari Wilds to the Dalish if Mahariel requests it, and while this sadly doesn’t last, it does show a positive sign into her potentially being open to the idea of an independent Dales as well.

I sincerely doubt that all Dalish clans would return to the Dales and re-settle down. After all, they have developed differentiating cultures over the years of wandering in separated groups, with different ideals and different ways of life that they might not want to give up. But many would return, and that would likely create conflict between the elves coming from the Dalish clans and the elves coming from the cities. We know that some prejudice exists against “flat-ears” as some Dalish call those from the city, and we know that city elves have adopted a lot of misinformation from humans into their views of the Dalish. It would take time and positive leadership to reconnect the people, without risking falling into some sort of hierarchy based on origin. This is why I do not believe one group or the other should single-handedly rule alone. Rather, I think there should be a Grand Council of High Keepers made up of those voted into the position each to represent a single district of the Dales. (I like the idea of there being seven High Keepers, not just because there are seven traditional districts of Mi’kma’ki, but because it works out that there seven of the Creators. So it makes sense that there would be seven High Keepers.) The Grand Council would meet and make decisions together, with one appointed leader at the head to act as the Council’s chair.

In terms of protection and order, the Emerald Knights should be reformed. This would include the Fade Hunters, to protect the people against demons and maleficarum, with there being no Circles or Templars.

Restoring the independence of the Dales would lead to a revival of elven culture in ways that could never happen before, because they would actually be free to pursue re-learning the language, re-discovering the history and culture, and sharing it all amongst each other. They would not have to fear arrest the crime of simply being an elf.  

But what of the other races presently living in the Dales? I see no reason why they would have to leave, so long as they would be willing to follow the Grand Council’s leadership. I imagine many nobility would flee to Orlais, simply because they would not stand for it. But for the average human or surface dwarf, their life wouldn’t really even change much; they’d still be managing their farms the same as always. Hell, it might even improve things for them, assuming the Grand Council gives fairer treatment than the nobility previously.

[idkjustsomegames]

It's interesting that Dragon Age RPG book also mentions it:

Before Cailan’s death while battling darkspawn at Ostagar, there were murmurs that Cailan might be wise to put his queen, Anora, aside. Anora had yet to bear Cailan any sons and for the first time in hundreds of years, the Theirin line was without a legitimate heir. If, perhaps, Cailan and Celene were to make a match, the truce between Ferelden and Orlais could be solidified, and a future war of succession avoided.

I don't know how much Bioware collaborated with Green Ronin, but I guess they had to approve of the book. Although I don't think you can treat it like World of Thedas as a canon source.

@komsomolka okay so it’s more political than i maybe implied here and it’s slightly up for debate bc i’m not sure if anything specifically confirms it but this codex entry that you find during return to ostagar, combined with a letter from arl eamon urging cailan to set anora aside for infertility, is what heavily implies it

it’s the overly familiar tone, addressing him by first name only (a previous more formal letter shows you how it should be written), talk of a “permanent alliance”, etc. when you find this codex loghain immediately reads it as a plot for a marriage alliance and calls cailan a cheating bastard who was going to hand ferelden over to orlais so he could strut about and call himself emperor (thats me quoting not being aggressively anti cailan lmao). and the only real defense wynne can offer is that the alliance might have brought peace so i find it hard not to agree with loghain’s interpretation on this one

alistair and wynne don’t pick up on this in the same way as far as i recall and can see, so it’s easy to miss if you don’t bring loghain. i read somewhere that this was actually all supposed to be a bigger plot point in the main game that got cut, although i can’t find a proper source for that rn so don’t quote me on it

[avernusreject]

I've been outlining the entire events of the fall of the south to elaborate more on what happened in my world state, because I'll be damned if I let EA ruin this series for me. Honestly, it just makes me mad cause the ideas they had for the fall of the south could've been so interesting and heartbreaking.

This is gonna be a long one so I'm going to put it under, in case your interested in my rant.

Tbh its such utter bullshit when the writers said (paraphrasing) "don't ask for a cameo from your favorite characters because that means bad things will happen to them" then precedes in game to nuke the entire south. You're telling me that absolutely nothing bad happened to any companions or beloved NPCs during the double blight because we didn't see it. If your going to kill off the characters, at least give us something. What are their last stands? What are their last words? What are they defending? Did they have doubts or fears in their final moments? How does that affect their actions?

How does Amaranthine fall? What does the warden commander and awakening crew do when it does, if they're there. This I'm assuming would be happening pretty early on because it seems that from the inquisitor's letters the blight hits first in the east and south in Ferelden. I think it would've been heartbreaking but great to set the tone early on in the game, if you play as a the warden commander one last time, in a last stand for Amaranthine. Having to rally the remaining Awakening crew, knowing full well you are asking them to go to their deaths. Choosing only one of them, to lead the refugees to safety. The longer you stay alive, the more refugees escape the city, the more resources you have at the end of the game for the final fight.

How does Denerim fall? What does Anora and/or Alistair do to help the city prepare? How does the battle turn in the darkspawn's favor? Do the people in the alienage get access to the help or defensives that other areas of the city do (probably not, but who knows)? What is their breaking point of making their court flee to Redcliffe? Does Alistair put up a fight, wanting desperately to fight for Denerim as long as he can? Does that stubbornness lead to resources lost? Would Anora leave sooner realizing Denerim would be a lost cause, saving resources for later?

How does the inquisitor get the Avaar and Chasind to work with the inquisition to the point they are providing food for Skyhold when the resources start dwindling? Do they have to do rituals or rites to prove themselves in the eyes of these communities?

Will the person on the throne of Orzammar affect how fast the remaining Thaigs fall to the darkspawn? If Bhelen is on the throne, we know he has a lot of sympathy for the casteless. Is he able to make enough headway with his reforms in dwarven culture to get the casteless fighting alongside the warrior class, buying the thaigs time? Is Harrowmount be too stuck to tradition, that he doesn't see the necessity of recruiting from other castes?

How do Briala/Celene/Gaspard fair against the Venatori in Val Royeuax? When the city falls to the Venatori rebels, where do they go? How do they rally the remainder of their troops? Which noble houses turn against them? How does the leader of Orlais justify their hesitance to ally with Ferelden given the current state of affairs?

How does Divine Victoria play into this? Does she work to foster cooperation between Orlais and Ferelden? Does she take the chaos as a chance to increase the chantry's control? How do their methods differ? Does Leliana fall back on poisons and blackmail? How does Vivienne's knowledge of the game help her pull in some of the nobles sympathetic to the Venatori? Has Cassandra increased the strength of the templars in the past tenish years?

How does Redcliffe fall and the remaining forces end up in Skyhold? Skyhold, sure is a big fortress, but to house all of the remainder of Ferelden? No, there's no way. Are there tent cities along the pass on the way to skyhold? Is there chaos trying to push the refugees back when skyhold is at peak capacity? How does the inquisitor defend their supply lines? How will they defend those desperate outside their gate? Does disbanding the inquisition mean the inquisitor had a harder time protecting all these people?

What the hell is happening with red lyrium Meredith in kirkwall? Did we just forget that she's back? Is she a main reason the city falls? Not to mention, how do Hawke's companions play into this except for Sebastian and Aveline (as we've already heard about them)?

One that's been driving me crazy: WHO IS IN SKYHOLD? Who from the inquisitor's inner circle comes back? Who doesn't? If they don't come back, why?

Where is the south's last stand? You've been building up all this narrative tension of the forces of Orlais, Ferelden, and Orzammar being beat to shit and fragmented. Do they all realize that they need to come together at the last minute or do they remain fragmented to the end?

Honestly, this is just the tip of the iceberg of my questions. I haven't read all the codex (because tbh I just got so detached from the game's superficial lore) so maybe some of these get answered. I get that there would be a lot of moving parts to including this in gameplay, but codex entries? Really? I'm just writing vignettes of these small moments in the south. It's been a lot of fun tbh going through world of thedas books for information that I can pull from. If I can do it, why can't a triple A developer with a massive budget? I get it, EA is a bastard, but come on guys. I shouldn't have to do all the work myself because at that point what's the point of Bioware owning the IP. Why am I buying their product as a consumer? My imagination is free.

I'm not saying I hate this game, because honestly I don't. It does have redeeming qualities. Is it literally just the Antivan crow NPCs (when I ignore the sanitization of the organization), the companions, and the final battle in Minrathous? Yeah, but its enough for me to at least like some of this game. But its not dragon age to me. Its a fantasy rpg cosplaying as a dragon age game. Ngl I've read fanfiction that has deeper lore and a better understanding of the universe of Thedas then this game does.

Idk I just had to scream this into the universe.

[eastern-lights]

I know Loghain's betrayal is very open to intepretation motivation-wise (mostly because he himself tells us fuck all even if the Warden befriends him), but there still seems to be a lot of straight up misconceptions.

For one, I don't believe for a moment that Cailan dying was his plan all along.

I've seen the opinion that his desertion was premeditated because he's a papa wolf who knew how badly Cailan treated Anora. This isn't really that out of character, but as we see in Return to Ostagar, Loghain had no idea Cailan was planning on marrying Celene.

Another proof of premeditation that I've seen is the fact that he had Eamon poisoned. Now, I'm not defending that course of action in the slightest, but I don't think it was connected with Cailan's death. What we're forgetting is that Loghain and Eamon had personal beef. Eamon was a traditionalist who resented commoners in positions of power. He didn't much care that Loghain and his wife had been elevated to nobility, to him, Anora was the daughter of a freeholder and a cabinet-maker. And Loghain knew that, just as he knew Eamon had Cailan's ear. He didn't for one moment trust Eamon to give Cailangood advice, so he made sure Eamon was ot of the picture long enough for the crisis to subside (remember, the poison wasn't actually lethal).

Now here's my own two cents:

The most important thing to know about Loghain is that he loved King Maric. It doesn't matter whether you interpret that love as platonic or romantic. From the day he became a soldier, almost everything Loghain did was in some way motivated by his devotion to Maric and I believe Cailan's death is no different.

During the rebellion, at the battle of West Hill, Loghain faced a choice that amounted to saving Maric or saving the army. He chose Maric. And afterward, Maric was wracked by survivor's guilt so bad he made him promise he would never do that again.

Paired with other factors, like the signal fire being delayed due to a certain ogre incident at the Tower of Ishal, I think Loghain looked at the battlefield and saw that same choice. And he remembered his promise.

It wasn't that he hated Cailan and wanted him dead (if you read the Calling, you learn that for the three years after Queen Rowan's death, he was more of a father to him than Maric was). It was just that to Loghain Mac Tir, there is nothing more sacred than a promise made to Maric Theirin.

[gaywoso]

How old will characters be in Dragon Age: The Veilguard, if it is 9:54 Dragon?

Provided these characters are still alive or exist in the first place. There are other estimates out there but this is my best shot based off evidence and a little bit of vibes. Mostly made to reference. I figured to share if anybody else might find this helpful.

Player Characters:

Amell Warden: 42

Hawke: 48

Inquisition Companions/Advisors:

Blackwall: 55

Cassandra: 50

Cole: ????

Cullen: 43 (canon)

Dorian: 43 (canon)

Iron Bull: 51

Josephine: 41

Leliana: 49

Sera: 33

Solas: ????

Varric: 53 (canon)

Vivienne: 57 (canon)

Other Characters:

Alistair: 44 (canon)

Anders: 54

Anora: 48

Aveline: 57

Bethany or Carver Hawke: 43 (canon)

Briala: 48

Cailan: 49 (canon)

Celene: 50 (canon)

Charade: 41

Fenris: 54

Fiona: 64

Florianne: 67 (canon)

Gaspard: 80 (canon)

Isabela: 53 (canon)

Justice: ????

Kieran: 23 if he exists

Loghain: 77

Merrill: 50

Mhairi: 43

Morrigan: 50

Nathaniel: 53 (canon)

Oghren: 64

Sebastian: 53

Sigrun: 48

Sten: 66

Velanna: 48

Wynne: dead, would be 71 supposedly

Zevran: 49

Final note: nobody I care about is allowed to die, ty Bioware