#andreas anon arc part 2?

[officiallyossy-haywooddent]

I'm really sorry to bother you again...

Do you know ANYTHING about this Andreas person?

I'm probably just being paranoid but ever since I grabbed this phone everythings been weird..?

I will find a host

@andreas-iamsorry

No, not..not much

We do. They have..forgotten us

Weird how? Maybe I can help?

[maxbegone]

hi! i just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying your top 10 set and I’m (nervously 👀) looking forward to seeing the last two , but I wanted to know what your top 10 episodes were? They’re all so good it’s so hard to choose!

thank you anon! it's been a lot of fun, and there were definitely a few surprises on that list. as for my own top ten, it's a little hard. my top five is pretty easy, but here we go:

1. in the unlikely event of an emergency - i hold this episode so close to my heart and consider it one of the most beautiful episodes of television I’ve ever seen. gwyn is undoubtedly one of my favorite characters on the show, and tk's experience losing her so suddenly and dealing with that subsequent grief hits very close to home. i'm going to cherish this episode for a very long time.

2. push - what is there to say about push that hasn't already been said? it's a perfect cap to the first arc of the season, and was my favorite episode of lone star up until 3.08. it's just beautiful all around, and my only complaint is that this is the only episode we got with andrea this season. i miss mama reyes.

3. saving grace - i love me some judd and grace, and this episode by far is one of the most magnificent. heart eyes all around, tommy leveling judd in the past and in the present, pushing him to say introduce himself to grace, the three of them and charles (who i miss dearly) being a family, and the 126 coming together to support judd in the hospital. never not crying.

4. riddle of the sphynx - i think this one is pretty self explanatory. we have carlos learning to take a step back while tk takes a step forward in his sobriety, carlos learning what it means to be in love with an addict, hard conversations, and a moment of, once again, reassurance that tarlos is endgame. shout out to wes from the icarly reboot who played cooper and made me scream when he first appeared on screen.

5. bad call - i mean obviously the first carlos-centric episode has to be on the list! every single bit of this episode was perfection; we got our first glimpse at detective reyes, learned a little more about his realtionship with gabriel, the first instance of tnt being badasses (and also absolutely fucking done with these kidnappers), and, of course, "hi baby, hi baby."

6. the big heat - alexa, play fever by elvis presley. i mean. i mean. clearly. on my first watch i was being thrown back and forth on who was on whose side, which is probably what the writers wanted, and ultimately did not expect raymond to be the culprit or gabriel and owen to team up like they did. so many twists and turns, so much yelling, our first on screen "i love you." and, of course, that ending when tommy gets home. oof.

7. red vs blue - nostalgia ep, my beloved! despite the fact that i have a v small, v playful, grudge with tk/ronen choosing #2 for his jersey in honor of derek jeter because i'm a mets fan, this episode makes me wish i was still playing softball. all of the 126 is competitive, we knew that from catan, but my god was this a whole other level. and then there's nailed it nancy followed immediately by the phone call that had every single person screaming at the screen in shock. man, oh man. 8. displaced - the first instance of paramedic siblings being paramedic siblings as well as the first time the 126 really made nancy she part of the group. that tribute to tim was everything. (re: let's continue to have episode 7 of every season feature something for nancy, thanks! but maybe not episode 8 be where we hurt tk). we also had owen and gwyn sincerely breaking my heart in this episode because they just love each other so deeply at the end of the day, along with, if i'm correct, the first instance where owen actually showcased his anger. also, that mri scene. damn, tk. 9. a bright and cloudless morning - don't yell at me for how low on the list this is, but classics took over! this was, hands down, lone star's best season finale. it was epic all around, and i'm so happy everyone wound up ok. i was genuinely nervous for wyatt and judd there for a while. the prominence of owen's grief and guilt with 9/11, gwyn coming to him just like she came to tk when he needed her, the sequence of the 126 getting owen out of the rubble as he saw faces of the 252 and nypd. i had chills the entire time, and especially during that shot of paul and tommy passing owen's helmet down the line. that, for some reason, gets me more than anything else. and of course — the proposal. i've watched it too many times to count, honestly, and i'll keep doing it for the continuation of the hiatus.

10. prince albert in a can - give me all the carlos and grace teamwork! this is what we needed! carlos boxing to up in here by dmx made me scream, sure, because wow, but watching these two team up and figure out what went down on a call they were both so clearly blaming themselves for was incredible. and ask literally anyone, i jumped up and down and screamed "there she is, there's mom!" the second athena was on screen. god's plan, bitch.

honorable mention to hold the line, in which this was the first time i met the 118. i watched the episode again during my first og watch and it felt like i was visiting the 126 with them. such a great episode, i don't care what anyone says. get those crews back together!

[holly-mckenzie]

i'll keep you updated on son yaz! based on today's fragman it already looks like things are coming hahah

i haven't watch dix pour cent but i've also been seeing the [redacted] stuff about feris and i also think they're going that way which is neat i think for feris lol. as for kıraç and beren, i kinda do feel sympathy for him bc yeah this is all his fault but i think he's experienced a lot of character development since the beginning and if he was like how he is now back then then i don't think he would've made the same mistakes. i also don't blame beren bc her entire life is toppling because of her father's mistake and she's (albeit childishly) refusing to blame her father but instead blaming the outsider who changed everything. i think dicle taking care of kıraç is also more just underscoring the entire storyline of dicle being caring no matter what it costs her and it's also more a sign of how their relationship has evolved from episode one.

i'm excited for the whole dicle being a manager thing bc it's definitely going to be super dramatic (although same i don't want dicle to be attacked again but honestly she deserves to be a manager and all emrah did was sabotage everyone else so) and bc technically there's no obstacle for her and barış to date now LMAO

speaking of, I WOULD DIE FOR BARIŞ HAVAS!!!! i'm OBSESSED with his obsession with her hair sgskdb also the fact that he's just there to support her through everything (character depth who? we don't know her) i love him being the loving boyfriend😭😭 and deniz can definitely looks very good in black and white turtlenecks but i loved the green (i would argue that deniz can looks good in everything especially every color turtleneck)

alsooo you have two MA anons now hahah i only sent one of those messages just fyi

I don’t know about the Feris situation. I feel like the story in Dix Pour Cent is so different and is so meaningful partially due to Andrea sexuality + the fact that the way that family is understood is so vague. But hopefully, they are able to give it some meaning and don’t settle for the vague and terrible aspects of Dizi tropes.

I have mixed feelings about Kıraç... Like I understand that he has grown since the start of the season and what not... But I think I am just really tired about how long they extended the secret about Dicle’s parentage... And I know this may seem weird, but I am genuinely on Team Mayda.

As for Beren... I don’t know, because I totally understand what you are saying. However, she is acting incredibly immature, selfish and ignorant of her mother’s feelings. Her mom’s life has literally been ruined by a secret that her step-dad has been keeping and she is still thinking about herself.

If you have read my blog post you might understand why I absolutely hate the fact that Beren (and the narrative) is forgiving to Kıraç for all of the lies. I understand that it is a response to such a scenario, but Beren has consistently been like this since the start of the show. Like, shit Bro had more of a character arc then she has... And its tiring because the actress is talented and they could be doing so much with her story.

It’s true, their relationship has developed and Dicle is such a caring person. I am just jaded... and I kinda stick to what I said. I wish we had seen Kıraç be more proactive in helping his daughters instead of just mopping around. For me, that would have shown more character development because he has repeatedly put himself/his work first and Dicle is always trying to reach out. However, I suppose we see Kıraç accepting Dicle’s help which shows his acceptance for her as his daughter.

Yeah, I agree. I’m excited to see Dicle being an agent and more DicBar. But on that comment about Emrah, this is one of the parts of MA that I am confused by. Each episode of the show is 2+ hours long. They literally do have the time and money to develop other characters (like Emrah or Beren) but they don’t... And it's so surprising because Dix Pour Cent is half that time with fewer episodes and we get more character development. 

Deniz Can is so handsome. Agreed. But I have to agree to disagree with you about the turtle necks. It’s black turtle necks for me.

Wow... I feel like I am collecting MA anons. I shall dub thee MA Anon 1, and the other MA Anon 2. 

[bethgreeneishopeunseen]

Mirror/Light Theory

Don’t know if we’ve talked about this yet, but about that music box… When Maggie first picks it up, she can’t see her reflection in it. Which is kind of weird, since by the angle she should’ve. Anywho… Now we all know that mirrors reflects because of light (if you’ve been to school you know this LOL I don’t think I need to have a source for this). So, back with Maggie…

When she first picks up the music box, she/we can’t see her reflection because the “light” is “gone” (we all know Beth has been called “the light”). But after Daryl “fixed” it, Maggie can now see her reflection.

This might be an egg. Daryl says “jukebox had some grit in it”. Now we have for a long time seen this “grit in it”, like the way the bullet shot Beth. As Daryl removed the grit and fixed the music box, at Grady the doctor could’ve fixed Beth from the bullet. So as Beth is fixed now and back from unconsciousness (as I belive she didn’t die), the “light” returns to the music box as Maggie now can see her reflection after “the grit” is removed. And NO, there was not grit on the mirror. It was grit IN the music box that prevented it from playing (I just don’t want anyone to make this stupid assumtion per also you can see the blonde girl in the mirror the first time without any problems at all while the background is dark).

And why this is shady as hell, is because when Maggie looks at the music box, it is the EXACT camera angle both times. Why 1. go to the extent of having the exact same angle and 2. the first time make sure the mirror not even looks like a mirror since it’s point black/blurry and does not show reflection tho in the next exact shot it does?. It smells shady. :)

——————————————————————————————-

“Polished metal surfaces reflect light much like the silver layer on the back side of glass mirrors. A beam of light incident on the metal surface is reflected.” (X)

Thank you, anon! This makes so much sense, and it explains so much. I noticed the difference on a barely conscious level, but I could never figure out why one reflection was dark while the other wasn’t. I recommend going through this tag (X). I keep all metas about Beth and the Sun/light there, including @ohbethyl‘s metas on the subject. She wrote often on the subject during seasons five and six.

In TWD ‘verse, Beth is the Sun. Two years @spooky-greene wrote a meta about Morgan’s tree mark (X). Gimple referenced a penumbra in an interview right after Beth’s “death”, and she looked up the word. It refers to a part of a shadow. While she was doing research however, she found Morgan’s mark in a diagram on solar eclipses. The mark represents the light source. Essentially, the group entered a solar eclipse when Beth “died” as she was their light and their obstruction of the light.

In Clear and then in season 4, Gimple has planted references to sun deities. ABIBEL stands for Acquired Brain Injury and Bel, a Celtic sun god, and it appears the most. It makes sense that Gimple would connect light and music, which Beth is a symbol of and which symbolizes Beth. The most notable Sun deity is Apollo, who is also the God of Music in Greek mythology. Gimple is well-versed in Biblical lore, fairytales, and mythology, considering C@rzekiel and Bethyl being modern adaptations of Persephone and Hades. He would know about Apollo. Twin/mirror imagery started in season 5, and Ezekiel’s archer is a woman named Diane. She mentioned a sister, but Diane comes from Diana, the Roman version of Artemis who was twin sister to Apollo. Like Apollo, Bel also rides the Sun across the sky in a horse-drawn chariot. So there are two indirect connections between Apollo and Beth.

Furthermore, the music box is an allegory for Beth’s resurrection. In Coda, it appeared that Dawn killed Beth. Darkness masquerading as Light killed Light. In reality Bello “killed” Beth (X) (X). The name ‘Bello’ comes from Italian and Spanish, meaning “beautiful”, and it has roots in Latin’s “bellus”. Beauty actually killed the Light. Bello could also be tied to Bellona, an ancient Roman goddess of war. Here is a summary of symbols for Bellona:

“Her main attribute is the military helmet worn on her head; she often holds a sword, spear or shield, and brandishes a torch or whip as she rides into battle in a four-horse chariot.” (X).

Again, there is horse-drawn chariot imagery. The helmet also stuck out to me because in 6x06 Daryl crashed his bike next to a female walker. The walker wore a motorcycle helmet, similar to the riot helmet Andrea wore in the comics. 

World War II imagery started in season 5 with the Termites, and war imagery and themes has carried over into the following seasons. If Beth returns during the All Out War arc, she will be a major figure as she will help Rick win the war against Negan. She will be the light that breaks Negan’s darkness, the Beauty that stops the Ugliness.

Edited to add:

I spoke with @allatariel about the root of Bellona. She studied Latin at one point and explained the different meanings:

Bellona actually comes from the latin root bellum meaning war, as in antebellum, before the war. Bellus is Latin for nice which eventually came to mean beautiful, and it is a diminutive form of bonus in ancient Latin. Bello is Italian for handsome or beautiful.

The meaning of Bellona can still apply to Bello. Bello is similar to Bellona in sound, and Gimple probably chose the name with more than one meaning in mind. Duality has been a motif since season five. Beauty and War.

allatariel then expanded on that, saying that, “[That’s] very interesting here, homonyms are like mirrors. And it's not an exact homonym as the Latin roots are different, but it is two possible roots for the same name.”

[serenagaywaterford]

19) what else. I think it irritates people that such a smart, skillful woman is so vile in some many other ways." But I mean, isn't this what makes her such a multi-layered and realistic antagonist? A lot of us have met RL women like her at some point. Which is kinda disturbing when you notice the similarities. n) "Rationally, I’m pretty sure she’s aware [that Nicole isn't hers] "Oh, she definitely does. But admitting that would mean admitting so much more: that she went to all of that trouble

20) "I really have no idea about Horace. I would guess he was a Guardian? What else can you be promoted from? Eye?" Maybe an Angel. Although they haven't mentioned those in the series yet. p) "I don’t totally doubt that they see Serena as more valuable as a source of intel/propaganda than to hold her accountable" This is within the realm of possibilities and a pretty good take. (Btw, it reminds me of 'Netgirl_y2k''s fic, heh.) r) "Of course there would be viewers praising a mob if they kill

21) Serena" Of this I have no doubt. -_- s) "Personally speaking, I don’t want Serena killed. Other characters, I hope die in painful ways. *coughfredcough*" i don't want her to die either! Tbh, if they actually gave her a violent death, it would feel like a punch in the gut, bc I'm too attached to her character already, lol. Personally, I want her to live and atone for her crimes. And maybe get a life imprisonment? (@Anon 2, I agree with you on this.) I'm still a bit cautious, bc I wanna see

22) where they're going with her arc first. As for Fred? I don't really care what happens to him, lol. t) In a way I actually feel sorry for Serena, even if she did get herself into this disaster, and she’s perpetuated it in the worse possible way she could. Like, her growing desperation and loneliness and need for connection as Gilead goes on is actually… sad?" I feel the same way about her and I mean, wasn't this the point of her arc in the last half of S2?

------

Yeah. Meeting those sorts of people IRL is a bit terrifying? Like, there are even some conservative politicians (Canadian) that I can think of that bother me cos for the most part, I feel their ideology to be despicable. But there are other things about them that are good? Like, yes, I hate you for most of your existence but I can’t say you’re totally evil cos those other things you do/say are actually really solid. It’s such a conflict. Like there was one Tory that was an EXCELLENT speaker, so fucking smart, really amazing woman--if she hadn’t had her priorities all ass-backwards. Like, GIRL, you could be doing SO MUCH GOOD for us, but you’re taking that dumbass, repressive route instead. And, I’ll have to admit, a few of the policies/bills or whatever she put forth were good for women (x) (x). It’s just....A MESS. Like... look at that POTENTIAL. But no, you have to be not nice instead (anti-abortion/anti-choice, anti-social finding, pro-capitalist, anti-environment, pro-big business, anti-harm reduction, anti-marijuana, etc).

(But then, ofc, there are women that I just flat out can’t stand or simply terrify/disgust me with their ideas. I just do not understand how they exist at all. Like what planet do they inhabit? Which is why I read Andrea Dworkin’s “Right Wing Women” and I gotta say, it makes A LOT of sense about getting into these sorts of women’s heads. And deffo gives a perspective without asking anybody to sympathise or agree with them. Cos, Dworkin is very much NOT right-wing and can’t stand them either.)

Re: Horace. I’d really like them to address Angels as such. Like, I guess they’re there but they’ve never been referred to as such. Again, it seems like THT doesn’t really want to get into the nitty gritty details.

I think... yeah. Tuello’s whole thing was implying that Serena would not be punished much, if at all, for her participation in Gilead. Which could mean either a) she’s far more valuable as a tool, or, b) the US is unaware of her role in the bombing. (Hell, we’re not even clear on her role other than she and Fred fantasised about it. And FRED suggested it to the SOJ.) OR, he could just have been lying. 

I’m sure the US has no idea what Serena’s actually been up to in Gilead, and they’re not really going to go after her for suggesting Fred attack those kids who shot at her, assaulting people or kidnapping or baby stealing--cos really... they can’t? They wouldn’t know any of that other than the babystealing cos that’s just part of the society down there. They likely know she’s a co-conspirator cos obvs she’s Fred Waterford’s outspoken, anti-feminist, riot-causing wife. She’s not some shrinking violet. 

I think a lot of people want her punished for EVERYTHING. But legally, I don’t see how she can be. The majority of those terrible things we see her do, nobody knows about other than her, June, Rita, Fred and Nick. The US/Canadian govt certainly doesn’t. Nobody knows about the execution of the kids, except Fred and those dudes that were with him. And again, her crime technically was only insinuating Fred should do something. She can’t really be put on trial for creating Gilead, because she didn’t? That was all the SOJ. Sure, she “helped write the laws”, whatever the fuck that means, lol. Not exactly a solid foundation for a war criminal charge.

The standard for war crimes is actually really high, with a big burden of proof. As much as WE may know that Serena may fit the bill here, for a democratic nation they may not have the evidence to charge her with it. (I was just watching some Nazi documentary lol). If they can prove she was behind blowing up Congress, then that is something they could use for sure.

And pretty sure the US can’t charge her with any of the things she’s done IN Gilead. You can’t just take someone from another country and charge them with like domestic abuse in yours for something they did in theirs where it’s not illegal -- unless it’s an international crime or war crime. The US, when it comes down to it, doesn’t seem to have A LOT to go on so it seems like she’d be more valuable as propaganda and intelligence, rather than making an example of her. It’s like racketeering for the mob. To them, likely Serena is a little (or more like medium) fish when they want to catch the BIG fish (aka bring down Gilead).

Non-judicial “justice” is likely the only option for Serena being punished for the things she’s done within Gilead. My personal thought is to have her suffer similarly. Like have her experience some of the things she’s done to others, via some means. Is that fair/just? Likely not technically. I mean, it gets so complicated.

But I mean, it all depends what comes out in coming seasons about Serena’s exact involvement in things she did against the law IN the USA, when it was still that.

(Yes, I mean, I feel that fic is basically the sort of thing Tuello was hinting at. And it’s really not unheard of for the first defectors to get all sorts of plea deals and such, especially if they’re valuable in other ways. The sheer number of Nazi war criminals who went on to live perfectly fine lives in the US, UK, etc is actually shocking to me. And then I think of the sorts of disgusting plea deals they make with serial killers here. Karla Homolka, I’m looking at you, you disgusting creature. She’s out there living her life all free and shit, even though she is a literal monster.)

“Tbh, if they actually gave her a violent death, it would feel like a punch in the gut, bc I'm too attached to her character already, lol. Personally, I want her to live and atone for her crimes.“

Same, same, same. I think a violent death for her would... just be so... incoherent with the show’s main themes in a way? Despite the vocal viewership’s bloodlust for her. But hey, that’s me. And like you say, a lot of this is pretty premature because we have no idea what they’re doing with her arc. My opinions could all change with more info, and depending what she does/experiences in the meantime. Who knows! What a ride lol.

“As for Fred? I don't really care what happens to him, lol.“

EXACTLY. Honestly? I don’t care about him much at all. I hate him. But as long as he doesn’t get off scott-free, I don’t really care. This story isn’t about him.

Lol, I’d like to think that was the point of her late-S2 arc... but apparently we’re in the minority for seeing that lol. Though from interviews, I believe that is what the showrunners were going for. Seems obvious to me, haha!