#and yes this specifically goes for canon content .. looking at fanon stuff without getting that canon balance rots my brain

[strawglicks]

currently suffering the withdrawal of not looking at canon content of my big interest so my brain is empty but if i look at canon content i run the risk of getting overstimulated and suddenly my brain will be too full . send help

[diepower]

THE MEGA RP PLOTTING SHEET / MEME.

First and foremost, recall that no one is perfect, we all had witnessed some plotting once which did not went too well, be it because of us or our partner. So here have this, which may help for future plotting. It’s a lot! Yes, but perhaps give your partners some insight? Anyway BOLD what fully applies, italicize if only somewhat.

MUN NAME: Kaiman     AGE: 27       CONTACT: IM, ask, discord

CHARACTER(S): Meninas McAllon, Orihime Inoue, Retsu Unohana, Mashiro Kuna, Tier Harribel, Charlotte Chuuhlhourne

CURRENT FANDOM(S): That I write in? It’s gonna be Bleach, OVW (super selectively im just here for one person), ASOIAF (barely- literally when the mood strikes and that one is private also). I have a lot of current interests in general though.

BLEACH FANDOM(S) YOU HAVE AN AU FOR: While I don’t have anything fully established... I’ve been working with an ASOIAF au (for Harribel & Unohana specifically, though I’m considering it with other characters too), A Dorohedoro AU (for Unohana and Orihime), as well as a Persona AU (more specifically 2&3) for Orihime. I’ve also got a number of post-canon AUs or continuities for all my characters as well!

MY LANGUAGE(S): English, super basic Spanish, barest ASL, fairly good French

THEMES I’M INTERESTED IN FOR RP: FANTASY / SCIENCE FICTION / HORROR / WESTERN / ROMANCE / THRILLER / MYSTERY / DYSTOPIA / ADVENTURE / MODERN / EROTIC / CRIME / MYTHOLOGY / CLASSIC / HISTORY / RENAISSANCE / MEDIEVAL / ANCIENT / WAR / FAMILY / POLITICS / RELIGION / SCHOOL / ADULTHOOD / CHILDHOOD / APOCALYPTIC / GODS / SPORT / MUSIC / SCIENCE / FIGHTS / ANGST / SMUT / DRAMA

PREFERRED THREAD LENGTH: ONE-LINER / 1 PARA / 2 PARA / 3+ / NOVELLA (2para is a sweet spot but it really doesn’t matter to me)

ASKS CAN BE SEND BY: MUTUALS / NON-MUTUALS / PERSONALS / ANONS.

CAN ASKS BE CONTINUED?:   YES / NO    ONLY BY MUTUALS?:  YES / NO

PREFERRED THREAD TYPE: CRACK / CASUAL NOTHING TOO DEEP / SERIOUS / DEEP AS HECK.

IS REALISM / RESEARCH IMPORTANT FOR YOU IN CERTAIN THEMES?:   YES / NO.

ARE YOU ATM OPEN FOR NEW PLOTS?:  YES / NO / DEPENDS.

DO YOU HANDLE YOUR DRAFT / ASK - COUNT WELL?:  YES / NO / SOMEWHAT. (i let them build up too often but some of yall are too quick to reply jkglfjdgsd)

HOW LONG DO YOU USUALLY TAKE TO REPLY?: 24H / 1 WEEK / 2 WEEKS / 3+ / MONTHS / YEARS / DEPENDS ON MOOD AND INSPIRATION, AND IF I’M BUSY

I’M OKAY WITH INTERACTING: ORIGINAL CHARACTERS / A RELATIVE OF MY CHARACTER (AN OC) / DUPLICATES / MY FANDOM / CROSSOVERS / MULTI-MUSES / SELF-INSERTS / PEOPLE WITH NO AU VERSE FOR MY FANDOM / CANON-DIVERGENT PORTRAYALS / AU-VERSIONS (italicized are okay, but under really specific circumstances)

DO YOU POST MORE IC OR OOC?: IC / OOC.

ARE YOU SELECTIVE WITH FOLLOWING OTHERS?: YES / NO / DEPENDS  

BEST WAYS TO APPROACH YOU FOR RP/PLOTTING:  I’m pretty anal about plotting in that I often refuse to RP unless it’s been plotted or I liked a starter call. And in the case of the latter, I’ll still hop into DMs to plot further depending on where the thread takes us. That said, the best way to reach me is through IMs or Discord (available on request). The only time I turn down plots is if I feel like it would put my character in an OOC situation, and I especially dislike my character being one-sidedly used as a tool to further another character’s development without anything being reciprocated (this happens often especially wrt my healer characters)

WHAT EXPECTATIONS DO YOU HOLD TOWARDS YOUR PLOTTING PARTNER: Communication is really important to me, especially with regards to comfort regarding certain plot elements, and approaching other in-character situations that might have multiple different solutions. I think it’s important that both characters involved get the same amount of development out of writing a thread, and I really hate the idea of being imbalanced as far as that goes (more on that below). That said, I’m always perfectly down to spitball plot ideas and tweak/refine other concepts because I really do enjoy plotting, it’s just super important to me that things are communicated clearly. I get extremely distressed and frustrated IRL if people just kinda throw stuff at me, and it often kills my muse.

WHEN YOU NOTICE THE PLOTTING IS RATHER ONE-SIDED, WHAT DO YOU DO?: I make an active effort to come up with plots that are engaging and beneficial fairly equally to both parties. I mentioned this above, but especially in the case of writing my healer characters, I have a huge disdain for characters being used as tools to further development while getting nothing substantial in return. That said, I try to be very aware of this in terms of a potential writing partner being on the receiving end. IMO it feels like shit, but I definitely don’t want to make someone else feel that way either. That said, so long as stuff is plotted out clearly and me and the writer are both okay with it, then it’s fine. COMMUNICATION IS KEY, BASICALLY.

HOW DO YOU USUALLY PLOT WITH OTHERS, DO YOU GIVE INPUT OR LEAVE MOST WORK TOWARDS YOUR PARTNER?:  I kinda just like to throw spaghetti at the wall and whatever sticks, I’m down to fly with. I have a lot of ideas, but again, I like to give my partners the option of doing whatever they’re comfortable with, and h aving equal contribution opportunities.

WHEN A PARTNER DROPS THE THREAD, DO YOU WISH TO KNOW?:   YES / NO / DEPENDS.

- AND WHY?: Everyone has their own circumstances, I really don’t mind. If it’s one I’ve been especially looking forward to, I might be bummed, but it’s no skin off my nose really.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY LEAD YOU TO DROP A THREAD?: I don’t typically drop threads or abandon them during their writing. The only thing that would make me do so is offensive content, or huge plot elements being introduced that makes my character ooc and wasn’t previously discussed during plotting.

WILL YOU TELL YOUR PARTNER?:   YES / NO / DEPENDS.

IS COMMUNICATION IN THE RPC IMPORTANT TO YOU? YES / NO.

-AND WHY?: I already feel like I need to take a lot of extra steps to understand others and be understood, and that isn’t something often reciprocated. In my experience, just honest communication is the quickest solution to issues that crop up during writing. For those who HAVE actually had me reach out to them in this way, I really do try to be polite and respectful while being straightforward so the situation can be resolved without any hurt feelings.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH ABSOLUTE HONESTY, EVEN IF IT MAY MEANS HEARING SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT YOU AND/OR PORTRAYAL?: As long as it’s constructive, and not merely negativity, I welcome it. After all, I can’t fix a huge flaw in my writing without having an alternative solution. I’m open to accepting feedback and critique, especially wrt Meninas since my portrayal is quite a large departure from popular fanon perception (from those who choose to pay attention to her, lol), but I also thrive on suggested remedies and solutions to issues in my writing.

DO YOU THINK YOU CAN HANDLE SUCH SITUATION IN A MATURE WAY? YES / NO.

WHY DO YOU RP AGAIN, IS THERE A GOAL?: I like to tell stories, and I like to tell narratives that take root in emotional expression and how those feelings can act as a vehicle to the storytelling. I want to move people through feeling, because it can be a powerful experience. I use a lot of inspiration from themes in my other favorite series, as well as inspiration from my own personal experiences as well. I tend to pick characters who have one or two traits in common with myself, whether those be negative or positive. I’m very excited to share all the things I have planned for Meninas, as she’s certainly my most ambitious project to date.

WISHLIST, BE IT PLOTS OR SCENARIOS:  For Meninas specifically, I want to interact with Squad 11 and Squad 9 during the CFYOW verse I have planned. Hisagi specifically would be interesting because of the clash of ideals, in addition to being the only other living person to be able to relate to the horror of being under Pepe’s thrall. I’d also like to steal Ikkaku’s bankai, and have more fight scenes. Lastly, Meninas doesn’t do much of anything in CFYOW, so more interactions with Mayuri and Squad 12 would be cool.

THEMES I WON’T EVER RP / EXPLORE: I don’t mind briefly referencing darker themes in my writing, especially wrt my own personal experiences, but I want to be very clear that I refuse to write at length or romanticize these themes. I refuse to write anything involving rape, homophobia, transphobia, racism, pedophilia, etc, with this in mind.

WHAT TYPE OF STARTERS DO YOU PREFER / DISLIKE, CAN’T WORK WITH?: Unless previously discussed, I struggle with starters that have a character pushing mine away. If the situation is super OOC for my character to be in, or frankly too mundane. In Meninas’ case, most domestic stuff is a snoozefest for me (but I LOVE this for other characters).

WHAT TYPE OF CHARACTERS CATCH YOUR INTEREST THE MOST?:  *saoirse ronan voice* Women. UHHH but no, for real... I like fleshing out female characters quite a bit. Personality types are varied, but I like characters who have some level of nuance to their emotional expression whether it’s an internal or external struggle. I like powerful women too, and the exploration of “strength” as a theme (esp at the intersection of the theme of “femininity” and its expressions) whether this is external strength or internal fortitude. I think I play a wide variety of characters who have vastly different thoughts, beliefs, and forms of expression, but I try to find something in common with who I portray to act as a touch stone. I also like characters who have themes of “justice” and nuanced morality.

WHAT TYPE OF CHARACTERS CATCH YOUR INTEREST THE LEAST?: 99% of male characters. And I also hate tsunderes gjklsdjfd

WHAT ARE YOUR STRONG ASPECTS AS RP PARTNER?: I really like my writing style especially wrt using emotion to set a cinematic scene and overall tone. I think I’m really strong with conveying emotion, especially with things that are often unspoken. I try to communicate with partners clearly and establish rapports. I love writing headcanons and have a TON of plot ideas as well.

WHAT ARE YOUR WEAK ASPECTS AS RP PARTNER?: Oh I’m the slowest replier on the planet and I’m apparently intimidating lol

DO YOU RP SMUT?:  YES / NO / DEPENDS.

DO YOU PREFER TO GO INTO DETAIL?: YES / NO / DEPENDS (i prefer to go into detail about sensations, rather than the actual acts as it comes off stifled and weirdly technical)

ARE YOU OKAY WITH BLACK CURTAIN?: YES / NO

- WHEN DO YOU RP SMUT? MORE OUT OF FUN OR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?: Honestly I just do what Meninas tells me.

- ANYTHING YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO RP THERE?: Kink stuff is weird territory for me, absolutely gotta be discussed in private and comfort levels clearly established.

ARE SHIPS IMPORTANT TO YOU?: YES / NO. Relationships in general rule, and while I do have a romantic ship that plays a large part in Meninas’ plot, the romance comes secondary to the plot itself. I really enjoy writing and developing romances, but more than that I like establishing connections. I love the relationships I’ve got planned with Giselle, Candice, Liltotto, and Bambietta because there are going to be a LOT of drastically different things that inform my portrayal of Meninas coming from these relationships (both positive and negative, but ultimately places of growth).

WOULD YOU SAY YOUR BLOG IS SHIP-FOCUSED?: YES / NO. Like I said, plot comes first. And especially in the case of Meninas, she has a lot of self exploration and reflection to do before she can engage in a healthy relationship or address any feelings of romance. I do place a large focus on the formation of her relationships and how they shape the way she relates to other people and grows as a person, but I am extremely sensitive to making sure I’m not writing a female character who’s entire development is dependent on a romance with a male character- perish the thought lol.

DO YOU USE READ MORE?:  YES / NO / SOMETIMES WHEN I WRITE LONG STUFF.

ARE YOU:  MULTI-SHIP / SINGLE-SHIP / DUAL-SHIP  —  MULTIVERSE / Singleverse.

WHAT DO YOU LOVE TO EXPLORE THE MOST IN YOUR SHIPS?: For Meninas, it’s a matter of her acknowledging, understanding, and accepting that she can be worth more than how useful she is to others. She had a series of traumatizing and character defining experiences regarding love, romance, and personal worth that strongly shaped the way she perceives her relationships to others and her emotional expression. Trust is another huge factor for me, Meninas needs to be around someone she believes in. Strength is another aspect. She likes someone who challenges her, keeps her on her toes, and is sturdy like physically. Because she’ll break you. THAT SAID- Meninas tends to be open wrt her body, but closed off when it comes to her heart. Hate to see it, love to write it.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH PRE-ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIPS?: YES / NO. As long as the premise makes sense. I like relationships to have some matter of significance and planning, especially because of how I’ve written the way Meninas picks and chooses who to get close to in Silbern depending on what suits her interests. Genuine friendship is a weird thing for Meninas, as most of her relationships are formed out of convenience. If you aren’t useful to Meninas’ schemeing, then she has no interest in dealing with you beyond platitudes and keeping up appearances and will interact with you as such.

► SECTION ABOUT YOUR MUSE.

- WHAT COULD POSSIBLY MAKE YOUR MUSE INTERESTING TOWARDS OTHERS, WHY SHOULD THEY RP WITH THIS PARTICULAR CHARACTER OF YOURS NOW, WHAT POSSIBLE PLOTS DO THEY OFFER?: WE LOVE DUPLICITOUS WOMEN! No, but at the core of my Meninas characterization, the sentiment is “Everything is not as it appears” even down to the relationships she has with others. Meninas’ entire personality is constructed as a survival tactic from an early age (in addition to being a way to make herself more useful as a tool to others, and thus seen as having more worth in general), and as a result, she hasn’t really allowed herself to live life as a fully realized person. Her plots generally offer silent rebellion, playing a role in regards to her self presentation, chaotic mean girl level bullshit, and cool fights/training. Also you get to interact with a big buff lady. That said about her personality, it depends on the verse. CFYOW Meninas will be more unhinged, while post-CFYOW Meninas will be more honest and rowdy.

- WITH WHAT TYPE OF MUSES DO YOU USUALLY STRUGGLE TO RP WITH?:  Muses who are standoffish or disengage right at the start. Meninas doesn’t interact with people without a certain purpose, so if they aren’t interested, she’s not going to be either.

- WHAT DO THEY DESIRE, IS THEIR GOAL?:  Revenge, strength, redefining what “power” means in terms of how the world works. She wants to see the Shinigami dead for their role in her parents deaths, and feels the same about Yhwach.

- WHAT CATCHES THEIR INTEREST FIRST WHEN MEETING SOMEONE NEW?:  Ability, potential threat, perceived strength, where loyalty lies; how potentially useful you can be to her.

- WHAT DO THEY VALUE IN A PERSON?:  Strength both in a physical sense, but also in belief and convictions. Honesty, and understanding the flaws of the world they live in.

- WHAT THEMES DO THEY LIKE TALKING ABOUT?:  Fighting, beauty, freedom, abolishing Quincy classism based on blood purity, music, fashion, blacksmithing.

- WHICH THEMES BORE THEM?: Blind loyalty to Yhwach, talking about the horrors of war as if it doesn’t concern them, Bambietta, Quincy supremacy,

- DID THEY EVER WENT THROUGH SOMETHING TRAUMATIC?:  Her parents were killed in the first Quincy war and she was left abandoned and grew up literally fighting for her life and living on the streets. She often likens fighting pits to the bowels of Hell (and I often play with the ironic theme of crawling out of hell to appear as an angel or something divine). She is consumed by a quest for revenge, and strongly believes her ends will justify the means taken to fulfill her ideal. As a direct result of these experiences, her emotional health and maturity is severely affected, and she doesn’t view herself as a person worthy or capable of feeling as much as a tool who, in the right hands, can be utilized to bring about the revenge she craves.

- WHAT COULD LEAD TO AN INSTANT KILL?:  (1) Men who feel non-consensually entitled to her body. That said, she’s done a fairly excellent job at maintaining control and an unassuming threatening nature despite the widely known understanding of her Schrift ability and how it augments. (2) Someone touching her Quincy cross, as it’s her most precious and private item. (3) Anyone who dares get in the way of her plans that can’t be manipulated in some other useful aspect.

- IS THERE SOMEONE /-THING THEY HATE?:  Meninas hates Yhwach, and the Shinigami most predominately, but she also harbors disgust for Hollows as an instinct. That said, her young life was spent detached from Quincy culture (in addition to being a Gemischt and the inherent isolation that comes with that status), so despite her early induction into the Wandenreich ranks, Meninas does not harbor the same Quincy nationalism and loyalty that others of her race do. They’re a means to an end, and just happen to help her become stronger.

IS YOUR MUSE EASY TO APPROACH?: YES / NO. - Best ways to approach them?: She comes off as easy to approach, but if you want genuine Meninas I’m sorry the number you’re trying to reach has been disconnected. Goodbye!

SOMETHING YOU MAY STILL WANT TO POINT OUT ABOUT YOUR MUSE?: Everything I’ve written about her is based in headcanon! I’ve got both a lengthy biography as well as headcanons gathered in the sidebar links on my blog.

CONGRATS!!! You managed it, now tag your mutuals! ♥

TAGGED BY: @bazzardburner​ TAGGING: i think this has made its rounds so steal it!

[blindrapture]

After the break, the remainder of this post will be Andrew Hussie’s newspost from 11/08/14. In it, he goes pretty in-depth about the symbolism and intent of Homestuck’s GAME OVER flash. I wanted to share this because it’s one of the most concise examples I can think of that stresses why I still think he’s goddamn lovely. It also contains his own rather clear declaration that he prefers Death Of The Author over Word Of God (”Now, since they can no longer depend on answers which I supply between horse jokes and snappy retorts, they are lost in the woods to fend for themselves against the wolves of dubious fanalysis.“), a sentiment which echoes darkly through the fandom these days. You could argue he pretty much spends most of the newspost trying to explain how to read the ending to come. And plus I can say this is a #ThrowbackFrihorse thing, even though it’s nowhere near Friday.

Spoilers ahead, those of you who have not yet finished reading Homestuck.

Andrew: There comes a time in every young Homestuck's life when they must face the fact that a notable comic author has swindled them into getting on a bus labeled "cool updates", only to swerve said bus off the highway and into a precipitous gulch of unmitigated sadstuck. But the old wives tale says that sadstuck was just a thing that happened in our fanfics, the bus children wailed. That's what they said about the tricksters too, a veteran child in the back replied. They said the tricksters would never see the light of canon, but where are the doubters now? Where are they now. Propping up six feet of dirt is where. The veteran child is weirding everybody out, so they stop looking at him, and turn to the driver. But the driver is now a spooky skeleton and the kids lose their shit. The skeleton head does a creepy 180, and speaks his scary curse. Heed me bus youths, for I am the ghost of future sadstuck. I have traveled back in time and am on a bus for some reason I guess, to punish you for your maudlin fics. For every time you murmured sadstuck while having a feeling, for every fic you pastebinned by candlelight, my curse has grown stronger, and my legend, dumber. Then the skeleton ran out of stuff to say, and looking a little embarrassed, turned around again to keep driving. Then he screamed once he remembered the bus was falling. Thanks for listening to my short story. We like to have a good time here at MS Paint Adventures, The Website. The gigaplay is off to a rocky start of unhewn feels. If your kerchief has become too soggy with tears from emotion, skeleton terror, or just plain admiration for my skill as a short story writer (can't blame you there), and you wish to lighten the mood, I recommend moseying over to Paradox Space, which is currently running a 24 page comic I have written about Crowbar. I am alert to the desires of readers every single day, and the one thing I hear them clamor for above all else, is more stories about CROWBAR. We want more content about Crowbar, RIGHT NOW, they say, and make that content consist of 24 beautifully illustrated comic pages, MINIMUM. I just give the people what they want. Fortunately, Homestuck's Premier Felt Fan #1 Jones was available to do a spectacular job of illustrating this comic. My rambling noir-style monologues have never before overlapped such lovely artwork. GOD TIER TALK! I don't answer Q's about Homestuck much anymore. It was a practice which I think used to be some people's lifeline for decoding the enigmatic runes of this story. Now, since they can no longer depend on answers which I supply between horse jokes and snappy retorts, they are lost in the woods to fend for themselves against the wolves of dubious fanalysis. Pulling the ripcord on the Homestuck machine again, combined with recent story events, makes me think something FAQQY may be in order. The thing is, when you make a big story, and allude to rules for a complicated system dictating mortality, people tend to REALLY, REALLY want to understand how it works. Speculation naturally fills the vacuum in lieu of concrete data. Theories are crafted. Headcanons, congealed. Then, when additional data is presented (DEAD KIDS), which happen to chafe with fanon constructs, feelings run ragged, and Bullshit is called. Then Bullshit shows up, and says, you rang? And the fanonistas say, yes Bullshit. Look at this mess. LOOK at it. This in NO WAY jives with my views on what constitutes heroism and justice. Bullshit nods sagely while lighting its pipe. Earlier in HS when god tier folk were more scarce, the story was more cagey about these verdicts. The Vriska ruling was presented as a close call, which maybe could have gone either way. Then Slick smacked the clock to Just before it could settle, leaving the true verdict ambiguous, and the 'moral debate' intact, so to speak. But now that there are a lot of god tiers running around, with the stakes raised and the body count piling up, the game (or, story) is starting to be more liberal with its rulings. As in, more likely to come down hard on Just, Heroic, or Neither verdicts without intervention or obfuscation, helping us better understand the boundaries of heroic and just action through example. Not necessarily by moral definitions, but as dictated by the rules of a game. So that turns the story guy (sometimes known as an "author") into something like a ref at a basketball game. He blows the whistle when he sees the basketball guy (the "baller") take a half step without bouncing the ball. The home team crowd does not detect the subtle violation and goes boooooo! Those homers can boo all they want, but you know, the guy is really just some bozo with a whistle. The rules are the rules! There's reason to think there is a nuanced scale ranging from Heroic to Just inside the clock. There may be many shades of justice and heroism, some forms just barely qualifying to seal one's fate. But there's nothing nuanced about Alive vs. Dead. The result of a coin flip is absolute, even though there may be many subtle factors contributing to which side it lands on. Such as whether the coin is pure of heart, and whether the table it lands on has ever killed a man. You get a sense for the nuance of the judgment when it comes to these "close calls", like with Vriska, or more recently, with Jade. In her case, she was subject to mind control when she racked up her misdeeds, which ordinarily would probably exempt her. But it wasn't ordinary mind control. More like flipping an "evil switch", removing her ethical filter, thereby letting he personality come through, and giving her license to act on impulses which she'd ordinarily suppress. So this gives the clock something to work with. Still, her behavior is compromised, so it's by no means a slam dunk. (BASKET BALL! that is still the metaphor.) So it's very close, and perhaps the clock even spares her... except for Aranea, whose luck lets close calls break in her favor, and nudges that needle one hair to the Just side. Very unlikely that happens if it's not close already though. Jane's situation is basically the same, and so is her verdict. How about Jake? He's the only player who's had two rulings. The first time, he was blustering Ronald Reagan quotes at the top of his lungs when Jane forked him, which I think we may agree safely disqualifies him from heroism (though the Republican party may disagree). The second time was ruled Heroic, when he took a realmaginary ninja sword through the chest for a friend. This corresponds pretty closely with most people's definition of heroic, so I doubt anyone would consider this one controversial either. Dave? Probably not much to debate here either. Fighting while attempting to save a dead friend, to bring her back to Jane for resurrection. There's a moral element here, tied to common ideas of heroism, so there's not much in dispute. When factors stray somewhat from moral notions of heroism, that's when there is more fuel for debate. So what about Rose? Wasn't John killed by Jack under similar circumstances to how Rose died? So why did he survive, and Rose didn't? The circumstances were very similar, on the surface. But I would suggest that the similarity of the two situations, both leading to different outcomes, helps clarify the rules in play, not confuse them. The reason for this? SCIENCE. If you were a scientist in this fictional world, trying to test this fictional construct, these are the exact kinds of situations you would seek out to prove or disprove whatever hypothesis you had. Situations that are very similar, with most factors isolated, and varying only in minor and controlled ways. That's how you would start to understand where the line is between heroic and non-heroic conduct. So what varies between the situations? What line does Rose cross which John doesn't? It becomes pretty obvious if you break the two scenes down. John was standing there, poised for battle with Jack, for all of two seconds before Jack auto-stabbed him from behind. Not even to speak of the underhanded tactic by the villain, I think what's more important is John didn't even get a chance to move. Or specifically, to prove through action that he was prepared to do battle with a foe. In fact, hindsight may tell us he wasn't. He hadn't been through much then. But years later, when he reenacted that scene with Jack through a dream bubble, he was ready that time. He had years to think about that moment, to reflect on the damage caused by Jack, and what he might have done differently if he'd been more prepared, and if the battle wasn't cut short. But during the first encounter, there was no time for heroic intent to translate into action. Compare with Rose's situation. Her feelings are unambiguous. Her mind is made up, and committed to action in the form of forward motion. Sorry Rose, you took a few too many steps through the paint on your drive to the hoop. Gotta blow the whistle! The two similar situations illustrate where one of the lines are for heroism (as a game rule, not moralistically), and in this case, that line is action. It would seem it's not good enough just to have heroic intentions or bold feelings. It doesn't cut it to strike a pose and look cool for two seconds. The intent should be expressed through commitment to an action. The action is what proves the intent. For all we know, John wasn't ready to back up his posture. For all we know, he was terrified! Rose wasn't though. Her action proved it. Why does Rose lashing out in vengeance count as heroic? If you wanted my personal opinion on heroism, I would say a vengeful act is not heroic by itself. We all have our ideas on what heroism means. But I think this is the wrong question to ask. The concern here is less about the moral definition of a heroic act, and more about how heroism is defined in terms of a series of rules which a game system can enforce. Based on some evidence we have, and some things Doc once said about god tier immortality, it's pretty safe to make at least one generalization about heroism as a game construct. The game/story regards your behavior as Heroic if you make some effort to defeat or kill someone who is villainous (or in other words, someone worthy of a Just death). The state of the hero's mind is just an additional consideration, such as whether they happen to be motivated by anger or vengeance. But let's imagine for a moment that a vengeful act is automatically unworthy of heroism, even if directed against a great evil. Wouldn't this be a MAJOR loophole for god tiers to avoid dying heroic deaths? It would mean to qualify as a hero, you couldn't feel anger toward a villain who has almost certainly done something to provoke anger. If a hero ever experienced loss at the hands of a villain, their natural emotional state would exempt them from the heroic consequence of the actions resulting from that anger. They would be completely invulnerable to a villain, so long as they maintained a grudge! The thing with villains is, they tend to have a way of inflicting loss on others. If being wronged precluded heroic behavior, villains would suddenly discover heroes to be incredibly rare commodities. There's a lot to think about here. It's a combination of how you want to morally define heroism and justice, and how to pragmatically construct enforceable rules to that effect. The latter is something that can get very technical, and boil down to hairline actions such as whether one exhibits clear enough forward motion or such, roughly the way sports are officiated. There's no way I'll ever come up with a full list of rules, or even get much deeper into the rules than I have here. But I believe this is a rational outline for the way the subject may be examined, if you wish to do so!!!