#and with logans whole orange thing even his most logical side is repressing the 'bad parts'

[boatemboys]

i wonder if thomas as a character will ever let go of his black and white thinking

[st7arlights-side]

Theorizing Pt 1: repression

UP AHEAD: so much rambling about Orange. written very late at night and not the most coherent, sorry. (also, all uses of Thomas are referring to c!Thomas)

okay everyone talks about the dark sides being their opposites, opposing colors, colors on opposite ends of the wheel, but wanna know another term for it? complementary colors. I think the idea of "totally opposing, entirely contrasting, nothing alike" is not really accurate to the lore that we have been given? It's clear that it's important that all sides are accepted, and that there is no "solely good" or "solely bad" trait. Everything has complexities and different aspects to it, and the sides are no different.

I've never been particularly fond of the idea of wrath/anger/cruelty being orange because it seems like a scapegoat? I am more in favor of it representing regret (as most appearances of it are present in scenes or conversations with regret present) [forgot where i saw the theory first :sob:] and passion (impulsive acts based in emotions, a contrast to Logan's character while simultaneously rounding him out and forcing him and thomas to accept the parts that aren't all logical) [theory from @/dillydallydove] as these have more dimension and seem to fill out the gaps in the sides a bit more, especially considering the general theme going with remus, janus, and virgil. These are aspects that Thomas represses, and he knows them by names that aren't really accurate to their full purposes. He knows Janus as deceit, while he is more accurately described as self-preservation. He knows Remus as intrusive thoughts, when he is more accurately described as his repressed creativity. He knows Virgil as Anxiety (which is fairly accurate, though it still minimizes his functions) though he might be more accurately described as caution? fear? an aspect of self preservation? Regardless, perhaps orange could be known as wrath or anger because that's what he manifests as, but that doesn't mean that this is accurate to who he is as an aspect of Thomas. Remus is intrusive thoughts because that is the only way he can get recognized, the only way he breaks through the suppression. Janus is known as deceit because he has to manipulate the other sides to get them to prioritize Thomas's self-interest (as well as his personal responsibility to protect Thomas from what he can't handle at the moment; deceiving himself, sure, but at it's core, preserving his presently fragile mental state).

What emotion, what passion, does thomas repress the most? he's clearly open to expressing love and joy and, more recently, stress and anxiety, even some hints of sadness showing. but what has he been repressing the most? his anger! his frustration! his (and his sides') sense of inadequacy!! Orange is being seen in these contexts because that is what he isn't allowing himself (and the sides) to express as themselves.

Sanders Sides' whole thing is accepting the different parts of yourself, with underlying themes of c!thomas's upbringing causing him to repress, deny, or otherwise have an unhealthy relationship with "bad" aspects of himself (which, boy do i have some ideas for possible explorations of OCD in this, especially with the prevalence of intrusive thoughts- and the ways Thomas and the other sides change their language around Remus to prevent him from "getting ideas"-). Orange could be treated as a character foil to Logan, or Orange could be like Janus, but instead of protecting c!T from things he can't handle, Orange is the result of that suppression. Like how remus formed from thomas (patton) forbidding Roman from having "bad" ideas, orange could be formed from thomas (logan) pushing down "bad" feelings, feelings of passion that don't directly help other people.

Of course, this brings me to how Janus (a "gatekeeper" of sorts for Thomas) would interact with orange. this is reaching more into prediction territory. I suspect that Janus wants orange to emerge, as prolonged repression is harming Thomas (which i'm pretty sure he alluded to at least once, though i'm blanking on when). (also, an aside, is it not concerning that during the christmas special, Janus, c!T's self-preservation, was increasingly inebriated?? ooh and the occasional gags about Logan drinking wine too-) Notice how Janus has been watching Logan? this plus the general willingness to exclude Logan (further pushing his frustration and feelings of inadequacy) makes me suspect that he (as per usual) knows more than the rest.

I... don't really have a conclusion. I think Orange isn't an embodiment of aggression, moreso a result of repression? I guess? And I'm concerned about... yeah everyone involved, but especially Logan and Janus.

[boldbrash-fandertrash]

Ignore me, unless I’m right in which case I fucking called it

So I was rewatching the episode for the fourth time and one I realized that Remus is much much smarter than we give him credit for and two I can generally predict how the rest of the story is gonna go.

We’re gonna have another aside video with Patton and Janus before the big season finale, and that aside is going to be one of the most important videos to the general progression of the plot.

I’m sure you’ve noticed the pattern so far, two sides who diametrically oppose each other being forced to work together on a problem they vastly disagree about, usually turning the small issue into something much messier than it ever would be and them learning something about themselves in the process.

Each pairing exists to point out to the viewer exactly what issues exist with each side that need some form of resolving, and the big unifying theme amongst them is “you’re not listening to me”. Roman and Virgil dragging Thomas across the cafeteria in favor of or agains him talking to Nico, Logan and Remus deliberately ignoring and working to undo the others work in an attempt to break Thomas out of the depressive funk he found himself in. Nobody is working together here. The only side to even remotely cooperate with the group was Virgil body checking Thomas into Nico, and it took him and Roman bullying each other and Thomas for an entire video to even get to that point.

Watching Logan and Remus interact, one, brought me immense joy and I will be chasing that high for weeks to come, and two, after an ounce of critical thinking was frankly painful to watch. Any critiques Logan offered to Remus were immediately discarded with absurdity and any critiques Remus offered to Logan were discounted as absurd.

During the obvious scene at the end with the Eyes™️, Logan claimed he wasn’t pretending Remus didn’t exist, but honestly, he kinda was.

The Dunce Cap Scene really accentuates this point. Logan pulls a holier than thou, why won’t you learn I’m always right, bullshit passive aggressive remark, Remus does his dramatic repenting student shtick, starts singing directly into Logan’s ear, and makes a kink joke. Literally the words Remus sings are “can’t fix this guy, all by yourself”. Remus is saying this inches from Logan’s personal face and even still the logical side ignores him outright, because of all the fluff around the message. Hell, in Remus’s introduction video, Logan likens him to a screaming baby on a plane, essentially saying “well eventually he’ll stop screaming so just bear with it for a while and you’ll be fine”. He’s ignoring Remus outright due to a preconceived notion and missing out on valuable information because of it.

The dunce cap scene indirectly calls back to learning new things about ourselves, where Logan is completely unreceptive to the puppet bit because of its perceived absurdity and absolutely refuses to acknowledge any potential the medium might have for learning until he physically cannot anymore.

Remus is capable of, and does often, make valid points and offers genuine critiques of shit happening in their lives. In Forbidden Fruit, almost every single line harkens back to some idea the other sides had been trying, and failing, to communicate to Thomas. “Good and bad is all made up nonsense”, “if you shared those musings with your friends i doubt they would forgive you”, “why deny yourself knowledge, say, knowledge of yourself” “people don’t like me much, Thomas, but that only just cause I’m honest”, “these sorts of things are only thought in the mind of a man who’s soul is truly rotten.”

Despite all of this, he is ignored outright because of his medium. Just like Logan is ignored due to his monotone cadence and large volume of content, just like Roman is due to his flair for the dramatic and artistic display of ideas, just like Patton is due to his playful and childlike nature, just like Janus is due to his perceived role as the Villain, just like Virgil /was/ due to his perceived role as the villain.

They all have become accustomed to being stepped on by the other sides because of who they are and how they communicate, and have in turn learned some less than ideal methods of being heard again. Logan yells and gets passive aggressive, Remus ups the fear factor for everyone around him, Roman shuts down anyone who tries to talk through bullying and raising his voice, Patton manipulates the others into feeling guilt and covers it up with a smile, Virgil whips out the tempest tongue and incites fear in Thomas, and Janus physically silences anyone in his way.

And here’s why I say the next asides episode is going to be the most important one developmentally. Patton and Janus are going to be forced to work together. Patton, who is in the midst of an identity crisis, and willing to listen to any new ideas provided they offer a valid solution to the shit he’s found himself in, and Janus, who knows a lot more than he’s willing to let on, who concerns himself exclusively with Thomas’s self preservation, and loves to talk when given the opportunity. Janus is gonna have a thing or two to say to Patton when they’re inevitably faced with their moral dilemma, and Patton is going to be in just the right mindset that he’s willing to listen. And Janus is going to end up being right, and the small issue they’re facing will be resolved, which will therefore strengthen Patton’s trust, and his openness to changing for the better.

Patton is goofy, and childish, and kinda ditzy sometimes, and because of that we as a fandom tend to overlook any of his moments that are anything but that, but we are not giving this man enough credit. When Patton sets his heart on something, he throws his whole self into it, and is willing to stand up for his beliefs in the face of extreme opposition, and would gladly do anything in his power to defend his family. Once Patton decides that he’s willing to grow, and if he believes that this growth will help put his family back together, nothing can stop him, and that will be absolutely crucial for the growth of all the other sides around him.

Whatever him and Janus discuss during their aside will absolutely give Patton the information he needs to help stitch together the rift between everyone.

I predict the next official Sanders Sides video is going to be the longest one yet, possibly over an hour long, because there’s a LOT of work that is going to need to be done, and Everyone is going to be in it. The big issue of “you’re not listening to me” won’t be resolved, but it will be acknowledged in a serious light by everyone. We won’t be getting any appearances from the Orange Side I don’t think, that would end up just complicating matters even more when each character is already incredibly shaky in their own identity.

Something less than ideal is gonna happen between Thomas and Nico, he’s gonna summon the initial three to deal with the matter but the other lads are gonna worm their way into the discussion, everyone’s gonna start screaming at each other, and Pattons gonna do something that stuns everyone else into silence (I’m guessing he’ll start crying, considering the start of season two was all about him repressing negative emotions and what better way to show character growth than to sob openly on camera).

Once everyone just fucking stops for ten seconds that’s when the apologies start. None of the sides are ever the first to apologize, we’ve seen that time and time again. Their desire to be in the right as well as their pride will always get in the way, however if someone starts the apology train everyone will eventually follow suit. We see that in Alone On Valentines Day, My Negative Thinking, Growing Up, Accepting Anxiety, Fitting In, Moving On, actually in pretty much every video where an apology actually takes place, once one person apologizes the other will immediately follow suit.

Patton is gonna be a goddamn mess, he’s gonna apologize to everyone in the room for anything he thinks he may have done to wrong them, and that’s gonna be what gets everyone to acknowledge all the shit they’ve put each other through, and the others are going to jump between trying to console him and trying to apologize to each other. They’re going to come to the unified decision that they need to work together more on future issues, the group is all going to offer up a solution and decide together on a remedy to whatever happened together between Thomas and Nico, and that will be that. Season three will be about them finding the balance between stepping on toes and being stepped over, while also working out how the orange side fits into everything.

Thus marking the end of my rant.

I started writing this at 2 and it’s now 4. I have to be up in three hours. I have an essay due at 3pm tomorrow that I haven’t started, but instead I typed up all this bullshit. I hope any of this made any sense, and I hope this is a suitable replacement for my emotions essay that’s completely untouched because chances are this is what I’m presenting to my therapist tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[banalbones]

The Petite Prince: Chapter 8

Chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Chapter 8: One (1) Breakdown

Summary: Roman is a child. It is now Patton’s turn to look after him.

Words: 2150

Ships: Familial everything, except roceit. Eventual familial roceit

Genre: Fluff with a side dose of angst

Warnings: A few swears, mention of the words ‘sexual innuendo’ tell me if there’s any more!

Taglist: @pricklyfish777 @sunflowerblondeuwu @itriedandimtired @draw-your-perfect-world @cemmy @battlebunnyteardropsinthesun @nonbinary-lizard-2 @fanforeveruniverse @i-cant-find-a-good-username @gabe-killed-me-with-ace-cream @7-slights-at-virgil @crazydemigod666 @tryingtobts

__________________________

Is everything about to go to shit?

How did you know.

__________________________

I’ve said too much!

Roman would have thought, if he were his usual age. But alas, he is not, and so the small prince just wanted a hug.

Plus, hugs usually made people happy!

And I made Mama sad! He was the only not-sad person! He needs a hug now.

And so the little prince snuggled closer to Logan’s chest.

Then he felt a tug.

Thomathy!

Logan, it seemed, had also felt the tug. He frowned.

“Roman, I may have to leave quite soon. Is there anyone you would like to stay with while I’m gone?”

The prince’s brows furrowed as he thought about the question.

“ReeRee?”

“I’m afraid he is already with Thomas.”

Who else was there?

“I d’kno…”

_______________________

Logan sighed. He would have to choose for the royal.

Virgil had told him of the conversation he and Roman had had the night before. It wasn’t an optimal situation, but it wasn’t as if he could get the prince to choose between going to Patton or Janus.

The two who had hurt him the most.

But Remy wasn’t here, and Orange…

He would go with Patton.

“How about Patton?”

The princely side’s face bore a pained expression, before immediately switching to a relatively happy one.

“Ya!”

Logan stood up, hugging the prince to his chest.

“Off we go.”

_________________

Patton was in his room, attempting to make himself some eggs and bacon for breakfast. As the only thing he could make well were brownies, it came out burnt.

Even the egg, somehow.

The moral side dumped the ‘breakfast’ into a bin, before clapping his hands together and summoning some edible food.

I really don’t know why people think I can cook decently…

I can only bake-on brownies!

___________________

Holy shit.

Get it? Like bacon?

We got it.

Egg-celent!

Oh my…

___________________

Patton had just gotten a text from Logan that he would have to look after Roman while he and Virgil looked after Thomas.

The moral side really couldn’t afford to mess this up.

Especially after seeing Remus’s reaction to how the whole situation went down.

The Duke had stayed silent for a moment, before sprouting tentacles and storming off, destroying almost everything in his path and shoving the other sides out of his room.

You could hear him screeching through the walls.

It was lucky that Roman had left when he did.

I don’t want to think about that. So, how will I decorate my room for Roman?

Ah, repression. A very useful tool, even when it shouldn’t be used.

Patton had been preparing an apology speech for the little prince after being thrown out of Remus’s room, in true princey fashion, and with this new opportunity, it would be the perfect time to put it to use.

Even though Patton wasn’t entirely sure how he would apologize to a fifteen month old child.

He’d figure it out.

________________________

Roman clung tightly to Logan’s neck. Falling off of his shoulders would be bad. Just like sad! But more hurt-y.

Roman didn’t really like hurt-y-ness.

He also didn’t like having to stay with Patton, but Mama said that he had to and the prince really wasn’t bothered to protest. Protesting would have made Mama sad, anyway.

The small royal decided not to think about how sad Da-Patton had made him.

Will he have brownies? He had brownies yesterday. Brownies are good…

“Little one?”

Roman giggled at the nickname.

“We’re here. Would you like a hug before I go?”

“Ya!”

And so the logical side lifted Roman from his shoulders and swung him around through the air. The prince squealed as Logan then raised him above his head.

“Simba!”

And with that the petite prince exploded with giggles, letting out a small roar.

Logan let out a sigh of relief.

Roman then hugged the logical side’s neck.

“Bye Mama!”

It was safe to say that the miniature monarch was feeling a lot happier now.

_____________________

Janus had been dealing with intrusive thoughts since his last ‘interaction’ with Remus.

The one ‘person’ he thought would always be by his side.

It wasn’t annoying at all.

For that’s all they were, annoying. Being forced to live with Remus for over twenty years gets you used to these sort of things.

It was slightly worse though, as usually Remus would scream them at him from the ceiling, instead of sending them through his head. The deceitful side had somehow thought that the Duke couldn’t do that to him.

Janus didn’t even know how Remus had found out about the situation. He was literally the only person who talked to him. Aside from Logan, he supposed.

Only person who willingly talked to him.

And either way, Remus didn’t really like his brother. Why did he care now?

His train of thought was cut off as he heard a ding from his phone. Someone talking to him?

It was Patton.

Frogger: Guess who’s been invited to my room?

Ssssss: Who? And should I care?

Frogger: Ooooohhhhh yeeeeaaaah! You don’t know what happened!

___________________

Patton, while waiting for the princely side to arrive, decided to text Janus. Building up friendship was important!

He explained what happened to Roman, and then sent a few cat videos he found. Janus had seemed confused at those, they were sent kinda out of context.

And then there was a knock at his door.

The moral side leaped to his feet and ran to the door, opening it with little difficulty.

“Hey guys!”

The scene before him was adorable.

The tiny prince cuddled up to Logan’s chest with the logical side smiling softly at him.

Patton wished he had a camera.

“Salutations Patton.”

Roman waved enthusiastically and smiled, the grin not quite reaching his eyes.

The moral side felt a pang of sadness.

“Come on in!”

______________________

Roman was a bit scared.

He knew that Big him said princes shouldn’t be scared, but, the prince reasoned, he was currently not even two.

Patton’s room was cleaner than the last time he had seen it, with a bunch of toys laid out on the couch.

“Hey kiddo! Have you had breakfast yet?”

Roman nodded.

“Okay then! What do you want to do?”

Roman shrugged.

He knew adults hated it when children did that, from Thomas’s past experience, but he couldn’t help it. He really didn’t want to talk to him.

“How about we play with some toys?”

Roman nodded again.

And so for the next twenty minutes, Roman played with some toys, settling into the game and creating a kingdom.

I’m booooored. I wanna play with someone! ReeRee was way more fun!

“Pa- Patton?”

“Yeah, kiddo?”

“Play!”

“Play?”

“Play.”

And so for the next twenty minutes, Roman and Patton built up their empire, defeating the dragons and witchs and saving the citizens.

“Attack!”

Roman ‘charged’ forward into the newly created pillow fort, swinging around his inflatable sword.

Then Patton wailed.

“My liege, I’m being controlled by the evil dragon witch! I’m sorry!”

“NOooooOOoOoooOoo!”

Patton held his hands out.

“I’m sorry!”

And then he struck.

Roman giggled uncontrollably as the fatherly side tickled him silly, falling into the fluffy pillows behind him.

A ball of water was unconsciously summoned in his fist.

And suddenly Patton stood, absolutely soaked, with a shocked look on his face.

Oh no… he’s gonna be mad!

…

As it turned out, Patton wasn’t mad. He instead grinned and fell to the ground dramatically.

“I’ve been freed!”

The grin widened as Roman jumped up and hugged him tightly.

Patton hugged him back.

______________________

“Where were you last episode?

Virgil stood in his usual place on the stairs.

Remus was at the TV, a stormy expression on his face.

Well I know that ain’t good.

“Well?” Thomas questioned.

“Why do you need to know?”

Thomas sighed.

To be honest, Virgil didn’t want to tell him.

Why? Oh, just because it was literally because he and Remus were trying to beat Janus(?!?)’s high score in Just Dance.

It was pretty embarrassing.

Thomas had been discussing the wedding and moral dilemmas, had accepted a side, basically destroyed one and Virgil had been hanging with Remus, Remus of all sides, playing Just Dance.

Definitely embarrassing.

“We were playing Just Dance!”

The Duke had spoken up for the first time in two minutes. He usually would have made a sexual innuendo and five death jokes by now.

Odd.

“Really? I thought you hated the Duke, Virgil.”

“I do, but I hate the snake more. Needed to beat his score. Hence Just Dance.”

“Janus? How do you even have that? Also, did you beat it?”

“Well-”

And so the conversation continued, with Logan eventually showing up as Thomas asked the question all of them were hoping he wouldn’t.

“Hey guys, I’ve tried summoning him a couple of times already, but he didn’t rise up. Where’s Roman?”

__________________

Why didn’t you want me to know? I could have handled it.

No, you couldn’t have.

You didn’t even know we could play Just Dance.

Speaking of that-

Oh god, here we go.

Can we just continue with the story?

___________________

Roman was having so much fun!

He was still a little appre- app-er-eh-hen-sive, but still!

He and Papa Patton had defeated the evil Dragon Witch and were now drawing. Roman had been ready to use his crayons on the table, but the moral side had managed to get him a piece of paper before it came to that.

Just a little bit there, and some more that here…

It needed more glitter, but it was good enough!

Patton was in the middle of creating his own drawing, a puppy with a crown. Very good, if he didn’t say so.

And then he looked over at Roman’s.

The petite prince had created an oil painting of the fatherly side standing princess style at the bottom of a grand staircase, complete with a glam makeup look and a meticulously styled ball gown.

What the… Holy crackers!

It seemed that while Patton had been focused on his own small piece of paper, the small royal had been summoning tools and colours and had made a masterpiece.

“Kiddo… That’s amazing! How did you do that in fifteen minutes? You deserve a sticker! And what a great idea- putting me in a dress- it’s so creative!”

At that Roman frowned.

“You okay?”

The prince nodded.

“Kiddo?”

“Pe-o-ple never like Big me’s- never like Big me’s ideas.”

He blinked.

Oh.

___________________

Ooooh, shits about to go down.

No shit.

Do you mean ‘no shit Sherlock.’?

Please don’t bring that back.

Too late! ____________________

“I’m sure that’s not true…”

“It is.”

Roman didn’t want to ruin the happy mood, but decided to be blunt. Big him never tried to show he needed help, so he would.

Mama Lo had said that it was okay.

“Big me tries! But no one c- but no one cares!”

The prince was standing now.

“He always comes up- always comes up with big lists o’ ida’s, but no no no! Bad bad bad!”

Roman knew Big him always put on a mask, but it was so hard to keep it all the time!

He was only (not even) two!

He couldn’t deal with that level of stress!

“Mama an’ VeeVee hate them! Big me’s always tryin’ change the ida’s for them! No fair!”

His eyes were glowing.

“An’ you! An’ you…”

There were golden tears streaming down the princely side’s face as he collapsed onto the floor. Surprisingly enough, he seemed older than he had been before. The rant had been good for him.

…

Patton sank down on his knees next to the sobbing royal, who, when he felt the moral side’s hand on his back, stopped crying immediately.

But he needs to cry…

Patton didn’t know what to do. Because for the first time, he realised that Roman needed help. And support. And comfort.

But not for the reasons he had thought.

And so Patton hugged the scaled down side, long and hard.

Screw the speech, this would have to come from the heart.

“I’m sorry Roman. We’ll do better. I’ll do better. I might not understand now, and maybe I never will, but I will do whatever I can to help you. I’ll try. I promise.”

Roman nodded.

But still didn’t cry.

______________________

They spent a few minutes like that.

Roman knew he would have broken down eventually, but he didn’t think it would be now. Or to Patton.

But he felt a lot better.

And so the five year old prince clung tightly to the fatherly side.

There was so much more, but Papa Patton had said that even if he didn’t understand, he’d be there. That had been a reassurance he hadn’t known he needed.

And then there was a knock on the door.

“Can I come in?”

Janus.

______________________

Thank you for reading this extremely late chapter of the Petite Prince! My motivation really waned throughout the past few weeks, so thanks for waiting for this.

I also want to say, Patton being the side Roman first breaks down to was a surprise to me, too. It just felt appropriate in the moment.

I am also feeling kind of iffy with the part after ‘no shit, Sherlock’, the mood just changed completely.

(Also, this may sound odd, but Roman’s eyes are still glowing. It will be relevant!)