#and who are extremely against things like rewilding

[pterodaustro]

that post is a bit overly harsh & does ignore all the shit that colonists did to try to murder everything that moved but the screenshotted tags are nuts & so are 90% of the british people defending it in the replies

[okat235235]

I'm looking into adopting some brumbies soon because I'm one of the few people who have the desire to house a brumby, the skills to train them, and the moral standing to not exploit them. I had hoped that the brumby community would be a little pocket of, if not veganism, then non-exploitative horse loving in the broader equestrian world, but I've been increasingly frustrated by what I see.

Brumbies are invasive species in Australia, brought here by colonizers in the 1800s and used as tools to oppress the Indigenous peoples of our land. The general sentiment in the pro-brumbies communities is one that is worryingly racist and anti-science, as well as very right-wing. The rehoming group I'm in has spread conspiracy theories, with people even voting no on the recent referendum to try to save the brumbies - which is completely ridiculous and outrageously racist. The criticism seems to be leveled at the Labor government, who - while /far/ from perfect - aren't the issue. The libs would, of course, also shoot the brumbies, and more importantly, stand against animal rights. The problem with how the government treats brumbies is a symptom of the broader views of animals: as objects that can be removed with no regard to their individual rights whenever it becomes convenient.

This is where our view of animals as objects impacts our pet animals. While horses aren't strictly pets, and are almost universally exploited, dog and cat culling faces similar outrage. An example being the recent initiative to control cat numbers, where cats were sprayed with poison that would kill them when they groomed themselves. Feral cat, and to a lesser degree feral dogs, are slightly different to brumbies, in that their destruction of the environment and killing of our native animals are very well documented and extreme, whereas evidence of brumby destruction is more open to interpretation.

Personally, I do believe the evidence that brumbies cause destruction in the wetter areas of NSW and Victoria, for a number of reasons. However, I find it disgusting that we are slaughtering innocent animals in horrific ways rather than addressing the much more pressing issues of animal agriculture, deforestation, outdoor cats, pet breeding in general, and car-based infrastructure. My preference would be to address things that humans cause and benefit from first, in conjunction with rewilding to provide habitats for native animals, after which invasive animals are addressed in the least cruel way available, if they remain a problem.

I find it very disappointing that brumby groups do not condemn culling in general, but extend their protection and outrage only to brumbies - going as far as to advocate specifically for the culling of other species deemed less valuable, like pigs and goats. These animals are just as capable of suffering as brumbies, and are treated much worse than brumbies, with pigs being hunted in absolutely tortuous ways, and having no option of rescue like horses do.

They don't even seem to value the brumby's intrinsic value. The focus never seems to be on the animal's right to freedom, and the appreciation of an animal primarily viewed and valued by their exploitation thriving free - but rather their standing as an icon of colonizer heritage. I believe this is part of the reason why brumby advocates are so quick to throw other animals under the bus: those other animals didn't contribute so heavily to the success of colonization, and therefore didn't become part of the image of white Australia.

[randybutternubber]

I 100% agree with what you said. The truth is that the environments that allowed these animals to exist simply don’t anymore just like you said. I get that way more people are going to be excited about dire wolves, but I personally think that they should have started with something else.

The passenger pigeon project imo is way more realistic and ethical. They’re up front about the fact that the pigeons they’re trying to make will essentially be hybrids and not TRUE passenger pigeons. It’s also way easier since we know quite a bit about them- the biggest hurdles are the fact that their habitats aren’t what they used to be and that they’re trying to replicate things like their migrational behavior.

I honestly think we should start even smaller though, maybe with some very recently extinct amphibians, and hold off on rewilding them. The more recently extinct they are the better.

Unfortunately, the world has moved on without the dire wolf, and I don’t believe that they can be ethically released. Again, they’d just be releasing some big ass white wolves. even if they somehow (it’s not gonna happen 💀) brought back dire wolves in a more complete form, the megafauna that they rely on is gone, the world is completely different, and it’s so so so risky.

I love the idea of de extinction- especially to right our wrongs- but I do not think that the method they used here is viable in the way they’re trying to push it. Like I said, I’m not against genetic engineering, but you said it best- these are designer dogs, or I guess wolves. They are not dire wolves, not even close.

I believe dextinction can be done in some form, but probably not now, not because our technology can’t do it, but I just don’t think humans are ready for that ethical dilemma. That being said, it’s going to be far easier to bring back an animal that’s gone extinct in the last ten years than one that’s been gone for 10,000.

Again, I think recent de extinction is infinitely more ethical and feasible- not perfect, but better. Bringing back something like the Mountain Mist Frog which has gone extinct extremely recently (like 2021)- mainly dude to a disease- seems like a better candidate. Not saying we should, but it would be better, especially since we can engineer them to have some for of immunity which is a whole other can of worms blah blah. I don’t think we should necessarily rewild these hypothetical frogs though

Im rambling, but I feel like we need to prioritize prevention of extinction in the first place, and it’s definitely not mutually exclusive to de extinction. It’s just depressing to think that in a few decades or something we might be trying to catch coyotes in order to bring back wolves. I got a little science fictiony in this reblog, so sorry about that. In short- de extinction is cool but i dont think bringing back animals like this is viable

I’ll admit, I was pretty mad when I made the first post and I would have worded things better had I not been utterly wacked out with a fever (“genetically twisted” makes me cringe) but I do agree with what I and what you also said

Sort of unrelated: Something I left in the comments is that I’m very bothered by the fact that they chose to make the wolves white. I know they’re trying to make them look like the GOT wolves which is in itself ethically dubious at best, but we know that white fur increases the chances of deafness and blindness in many animals- especially canids. I’m not a genetics expert, but I can’t be the only one who thinks that this was a TERRIBLE decision, right? Again, prioritizing aesthetics over health.

Also don’t feel bad for adding onto the post! It means a lot to me that random people from all over the world want to add on and talk to me about crazy shit!

The whole “de extinction of the dire wolf” makes me SO MAD.

It is not a dire wolf. They just fucked with a grey wolf’s genome in like 20 different places. They aren’t even in the same genus.

Iirc They also haven’t stated what studies/info they used in order to determine what parts they changed. This company is looking for investors and is purposefully misleading the public.

I don’t even want to think about what health issues these poor animals could have in the future. Heart issues, arthritis, blindness, etc.

chances are once people forget about them they’ll be put down because of health issues or something similar. They aren’t dire wolves, they’re just grey wolves that have been genetically altered to fit the public perception of what a dire wolf is. They literally are made to look like the wolves in game of thrones, and named like them too.

47 failures and 3 successes, I seriously hope most of them died in utero.

We should be investing money into the conservation of these animals, not just exploiting and genetically twisting them for no good reason.

Do not let them do this shit with elephants.

Elephants need all the support they can get to keep their species alive as it is. Elephants also have a crazy long gestation period. They used domestic dogs to carry the wolves, idk if there’s a surrogate animal they can use for elephants.

These animals will likely live miserable lives and die young.

I’m not against genetic engineering, I’m against lying to people and genetically changing organisms purely for profit without caring of the consequences that could arise or doing so or altering organisms irresponsibly.

They can study these things while the animals are in utero. These wolves should have never come to term. This is NOT a viable method of de extinction.

Im super sick so im sorry if this rant sounds insane but omfg do not let them create the most mid Paleozoic park filled with the most miserable ass animals ever.

[hackneyoutdoors]

10 tips for outdoor learning in wet or cold weather

One thing is for sure when you go out of your way to do outdoor learning - is that you have to be prepared for the weather. Now I can tell you I literally hate being cold and wet. But after years of experience dealing with music festivals including an epically muddy Glastonbury, I am now bringing my festival experiences into my forest school learning.

So please read this “happy campers ten top tips” and kit everyone up, if you want to ensure you and your kids stay warm and dry while accessing nature in all weathers, especially as we move into autumn and winter. Afterall, some of the most beautiful natural experiences can happen just after its stopped raining.

Get fitted with some wet weather trousers. Wet weather trousers literally transform your outdoor experience. If you don’t believe me, read ReWild Yourself by Simon Barnes who makes the best case for everyone owning a pair of “magic trousers” I have ever read. If it rains, you can pop these on and stay dry. If it stops raining, you can still sit on the wet grass or mud and still stay dry and clean. This opens up many many more outdoor experiences to you, such as sitting still for a long time, which means you can engage in outdoor meditation or quietly watching wildlife whatever the conditions. They are transformative. You can get quite swanky ones too that are very easy to put on and off even over shoes.

Get a good showerproof weather jacket or poncho. I have a good quality poncho as I find it's very flexible. I can throw it over my head and cover my head, shoulders, body, the top part of my legs, most of my arms and also any bags I am carrying. It has a little peak in the hood meaning a shower is also directed away from my face. Even better - a poncho is really portable and can pack down into a small space. I’d definitely recommend getting one for autumn and spring, when you can layer over a jumper and leave your coat at home.

Get some waterproof walking boots. Wellies are fine if you intend to potter rather than walk, but if you are traipsing about and (like me) have issues with your feet, waterproof walking boots offer better support as well as protection against the wet than standard wellies. 

Invest in some merino thermals or a proper ‘base’ layer. I hate the cold. HATE IT. So I have learnt to layer. Merino is the best as it's light and thin but helps keep you warm while also wicking away sweat. My son has bright orange thermals which he loves, which also double up as a pumpkin Halloween outfit!

If you intend to be outside in downpours invest in a tarpaulin. These are relatively lightweight, can be packed down into a small space, and can be tied to trees to create a dry space to wait in until the worst of the rain passes. Alternatively stay put and do an activity underneath! 

Accessorise for your extremities. Invest in great gloves, socks, hat - and possibly a handwarmer too. I prefer waterproof gloves, and two layers of socks - a thin one with a thick pair pulled over the top. In terms of handwarmers, try to get the old-school ones which include lighting a charcoal bar and then placing it in a metal casing. Much more eco as they are reusable, than the single user ones that heat up when they come into contact with the air. 

Don’t forget a decent waterproof bag! If your poncho doesn’t cover it make sure you have a bag that can withstand the elements, or at least pop your stuff within a black binliner before you use your usual non waterproof haversack. 

Invest in a cold weather coat. If you intend to be out in the very cold, and possibly in the very wet, a poncho will not cut it. Research which coat will work best for your needs eg will you also walk long distances in it, possibly use it on the roads, have it on for a long time etc. I have one which has a waterproof jacket and a detachable fleece underneath (warm layer) which is multipurpose. 

Learn to light a campfire fire. Sometimes, the best outdoor activities involve helping yourself stay warm. Lighting a fire, cooking bannock bread or making warm spiced apple juice, or using the fire to make charcoal for drawing, are all perfect for cooler, darker days. There’s also nothing nicer than sitting around a fire together, simply telling stories. Lighting a fire is easy if you have the kit with you. Matches or a fire steel, some cotton wool and vaseline for tinder, and some kindling and fuel. Do bother with some fire safety training, however before you light fires with children. 

Give up sometimes! If it's just too cold, too wet, or you and the kids just don’t feel like it, I think it's fine to remember that not all outdoor learning has to be done outside! For example, you can forage berries on a dry day, and then use them to make a necklace or freeze them to make ice cream later on, when you are snuggled up indoors. At the end of the day, outdoor learning is as much about noticing, touching and learning about natural things as it is about understanding and experiencing nature outdoors.