#and while i do feel like he was kinda ooc in st3

[clericbyers]

I’m sure it’s been pointed out before—Mike’s lack of stripped shirts in ST3–but I was just looking to see how deliberate it is and yes, of course the wardrobe of the kids does matter. Details are everything! But looking specifically at Mike, it’s stated his wardrobe involves bright, fitted, preppy polo shirts in his effort to appear more mature and grown. Which brings me to 3x02 and 3x03 with his yellow polo, the only striped shirt he wears in the season.

Chapters 2 and 3 were wild for Mike. He lied to his girlfriend, yelled at his mom, tried to fix things by buying gifts like a kid would do instead of just, being honest, got dumped by his girlfriend, spent the rest of the day whining and passing blame without atoning for his mistakes which is why he even got dumped in the first place. And then the final kicker: being an absolute ass to his best friend later that night while trying to play D&D to the point of essentially getting dumped again.

If striped clothing is Mike’s marker of youth and, in turn, immaturity, the fact that his worst handling of various situations between the people he cares most about—El and Will—occurs when donning that shirt strikes a chord with me. He’s in solid colors beforehand (solid yellow, solid blue) when being grown with a girlfriend and afterwards (solid teal, solid green, and after three months, solid pink with blue sleeves) when trying to still be so but stripes don’t make a comeback. Not fully at least. He does have two yellow stripes on that green polo from 3x06 on, which are the episodes when he falls back into his childhood leader role in the Party, especially once the Party regroups in full. It’s also what he wears when he confesses to everyone in the cabin that he loves El in 3x06 (but also still gets reprimanded for not letting El be her own person and thinks the girls are conspiring against him), where he tries to tell her how he feels about her in the supermarket in 3x07 (but still doesn’t apologize for the original offense), where Hopper trusts him again to keep El safe in 3x08. It’s a mixture of maturity in his relationships with everyone and understanding that he’s still a kid in all of this.

(If stripes is also the marker of youth for everyone, then it’s equally telling that Will dons stripes the entire season.)

[sleazyjanet]

"praising other men’s intelligence (which joyce was very free to do cause those men WERE smarter than him." AND IT ALL COMES BACK TO BOB!!! that's why hopper is so insecure about joyce being around smart (and the sweetest) men, bc that's not him and joyce has made that decision before

you are the first person i agree on this discussion cuz everybody else goes to the extremes of "hopper is irredeemable and ooc" or "he is not that bad" — all main characters in this show are flawed ALL OF THEM and it makes sense that this middle age man in the 80s would be a product of toxic masculinity, especially after he drops out of meds, and i think stop numbing himself is crucial part of his arc foward, like he's not gonna have access to cigarettes and junk food at a russian prison and all he's gonna have to deal with is his thoughts for months

yess i’m actually so excited to see more of that. of hopper dealing with withdrawal and having to actually DEAL with his feelings. now, the show has a limited timeframe so we won’t see THAT much of that, but i definitely think we’ll get a good glimpse (and the rest can be fanfiction, i trust yall to deliver the best and most delicious angst here) and ultimately getting better at it, because he’s just… st3 is the first step. he needs to do better but, as you said, a man in the 80s exposed to toxic masculinity on the daily basis would NOT deal with his feelings well. is it frustrating? as a viewer, yeah. as someone who thinks the rawest aspects of a character ought to be studied… not much. i wasn’t happy with how he acted and there are some things i would’ve written better myself but ultimately it comes down to him just… being at his worst while not actually being in situation that “warrant it”. like he overreacts because at this point in his character arc he doesn’t know how to do otherwise, because he’s not numb anymore and most of his coping mechanisms are gone. st4 strips him of even more of those but possibly gives him new ones. i doubt healthier ones, but they could eventually TURN into healthier ones. of course, that’s if they write it all well lmao. if they keep him consistent. apologies are still due but apologies ARE part of a good “redemption” arc (also i dislike the term redemption arc in this case but i suppose it lowkey make sense cause i do want him to kinda redeem himself from his toxic actions)

btw his insecurity is SO clearly tied to bob, yes and i’d add that the fact that murray referred to him as a “brute” and said to joyce “probably reminds you of a bad relationship” could NOT have aided him initially at all. like, all in all, that could become a ringing noise in his head, a thing to defy and to do better cause he doesn’t want to remind joyce of lonnie, but murray practically implies that and at that point in hopper’s journey, where he’s raw (and i’d add afraid cause el is growing up and might leave and joyce might leave, too and he’s scared of being alone) it… does Not Go Over to Him Correctly. like it’s just a slap, just a reminder that he can’t live up to that ideal that HE’S made up. joyce doesn’t actually have that ideal, or if she does she definitely also loves hopper, but hopper thinks she does and sees every man resembling that ideal as competition. it’s unhealthy, it’s something he needs to unlearn and cope with correctly and it’s something that i hope the writers don’t simply erase but DEAL with but… it isn’t ooc.