#and to the delusional mileven shippers

[shutuprichie]

You guys have got me fucked up with this “Millie is too young to be engaged!” shit.

She is 19.

She has been with her boyfriend for what, 3 years now?

Here’s what a lot of people don’t realize.

When you have MONEY, you are able to build strong, healthy relationships because you have what a lot of people who get married at 19 don’t have: foundation.

Millie is a very successful actress who probably has more money than she knows what to do with.

Jake is the son of BON JOVI. DO YOU GUYS EVEN KNOW WHO THAT IS???

This is not a diss post, I promise. But these two literally do not have to build from the ground up and start from scratch and find a tiny apartment or sleep in their car until they save up enough for a down payment. These two won’t know what it’s like to go through college barely seeing each other until they graduate and then starting their careers and working their way up.

What most 19 year olds have to go through, these two will never have to go through. So while 19 is sometimes seen as too young to get engaged, what is stopping these two??

That’s what a lot of people don’t understand. They are not like most adults. They never will be.

Also, if Millie has decided that she is in love and they are happy, then what is the big deal?? Let her live her damn life! She’s been acting her ass off since she was like 10 years old! Let her have her break! Let her get through season 5 of ST and then get married and be happy!

If the relationship is happy and healthy and has a good foundation, which it seemingly does, then who really cares how old she is? Odds are, she isn’t going to get married at 19, she’s just engaged.

Let her be.

[oncamelliastreet]

i’m just curious as to why byler shippers have to be “delusional” or “on crack” to believe our ship will come true. why is it delusional to believe in a gay ship? i would bet money that if will was a girl nobody would say it’s insane to ship them together, so why is it absolutely mental for us to ship them? especially with all of the evidence we have? idk, maybe it’s time for some milevins to self reflect about why they think it’s so absolutely batshit crazy to like a queer ship. why is it crazy to like a ship in the first place? ships don’t have to be realistic for people to like them, so why is it so crazy when there’s a ship that actually has a very real possibility of being real?

[autistic-katara]

how do u nicely ask someone to stop using the word “delusional” in That Way w/o it sounding like an accusation or smthn

[reikunrei]

tell me why it seems like 90% of byler shippers are the most smug, insufferable people i’ve ever had the displeasure of seeing on my dash. like can y’all be normal people LMAO

i’ve been following a smattering of general st fandom accounts that also post a lot about them for less than a week and i’m already like “damn i gotta fuckin go”

you’re telling me i survived 2013-2015 superwholock and free! shipping wars and i’m just right back in it in the year of our lord 2023? get a life LOL

[lucystark12]

to all u mileven shippers who are convinced that they’ve just been through everything together and are so perfect… what fucking show are u watching?

been through everything together… u mean when they fought the entire third and fourth season? u mean when the only reason they’re still together is because of external forces? doesn’t sound like going through everything together it sounds like being present with one another through everything.

neither of them has provided the other with any real and solid support through their respective traumas and if u can’t see that u are beyond blind. mike and el don’t even listen to each other when the other is struggling. take the scene where mike tries to help el with her issues as el brushes off mike’s own experience with severe bullying claiming he won’t understand. she isn’t even willing to let him try and comfort her because they aren’t even comfortable with each other as people. that doesn’t sound like standing by each other at all.

u people call us delusional but u can’t even see through the fake relationship that el and mike are putting out into the world to convince themselves that they’re happy when season four was all about the fact that their relationship ISNT PERFECT OR PRODUCTIVE. neither of them are benefiting from the other in any way. whether or not u ship byler u have to at least acknowledge the fact that these two people just aren’t good for each other anymore.

[softgaychild]

Byler is a necessary tragedy

Like we all love our happy ending romances and stuff, but let's be realistic here. Mike loves Eleven, that's a fact within canon. We can ship other pairings all day long but the truth of the matter is that Mileven is endgame. Now Byeler was always fun to imagine, like Season 2 really sewed the seeds for that ship and Season 3's argument between Mike and Will truly cemented the latter boy's sexuality. However, Mike even until the last episode, remained the same with his heart set on Eleven. Even Will's van speech to Mike in Season 4 really just sent it home that, "Yup, this boy is in love with his straight friend." And honestly, they should kinda let that be the storyline. I was (and still am) a hardcore Byler shipper, but I'm also not delusional enough to believe that the ship that's been built up from Season 1 is gonna be sidelined and not fully realized just for another ship to take over.

Onto another point, I believe that we should have more unrequited love in shows. Like as much as I love seeing the two characters who I'm hoping get together complete each other romantically, I feel like it might be a fresh of breath air (in the sense of romantic representation) for there to be a situation where one person holds deeper feelings that the other person simply doesn't. Like I personally believe that a storyline where one character doesn't exactly get a happy romantic ending like the others because who they loved wasn't someone who loved them back in the same way would be a interesting ending to that storyline. Like, yea, not everyone gets a happy ending. Do we want Will to be happy? Absolutely, but we can be realistic about how this boy's love life is gonna go. The cards are pretty much stacked against him in this situation.

The point I was supposed to make above before a tangent grabbed hold of my keyboard is that Will having a story with unrequited love being the likely ending is more realistic to how things are irl. How many gay boys the same age as Will come out and confess their crushes to someone only to be rejected in some way? I know it happened to me, multiple times even. And honestly given that realization when watching Season 4, I realized, Will having that storyline made him more relatable than him actually getting with Mike.

So would it suck if this is the ending we get in the end? Absolutely, Imma be in my bed cryin as I watch it go down next year. But is this the most likely outcome of the story? Most definitely.

[dukeofdelirium]

I was inclined to believe Nick before that post, but his response indeed reads like he took advantage of the byler community back in the day only to come back 2 years later and not only confirm he was just using our hype, but also lowkey call us illiterate and delusional. Biggest red flag ever.

Yup, that’s what I’m saying. He took advantage of ppl bc he saw the buzz of the ship community, he got what he wanted and then dipped when the writers exposed is lying ass on socials. Now he sounds like he’s batting for mileven for multiple reasons, one being that he probably figures he can’t scam bylers anymore since most are wary of him for good reason. And two, he might try to scam milevens this time around lol. Especially with how desperate they’ve been for any news, it wouldn’t shock me if he tries to do something like that. Which would be awful. As much as I don’t like the ship or most of the shippers, no one deserves to get scammed.

Ppl are too damn gullible. Don’t trust random ppl online who claim they have sources or know stuff. No matter how you dice it, this 8flix guy is a fraud. He was lying then or he’s lying now. And regardless of when you think he was lying, at the end of the day, he’s a thief.

Seriously guys, don’t give some asshole your hard earned money for crumbs of info that are very likely not true. It’s fine to speculate. It’s fine to theorize. It’s all in good fun. But it stops being fun when someone starts asking people for pay outs. It starts being a concern the second people start getting stolen from

[miwiheroes]

I used to think that all milevens are media illiterate but after I made a few of my friends and relatives watch ST and nobody picked up on Mike's feelings for Will, I realised that byler is just not that obvious, which makes sense since byler is literally written as a plot twist. Of course, heteronormativity is also at play here. And let's be real, a lot of people don't really care that much about Will (he's not a GA favorite), so why would people pay close attention to his relationships with other characters?

I think that the general audience (not like, active active mileven shippers) aren’t necessarily media illiterate for not getting that Mike likes Will, I think they would be a little if they didn’t pick up on Will at all lmao but I generally don’t feel comfortable insulting someone if they didn’t pick up on that stuff on first watch. There is a lot to focus on in stranger things, so much more to think about than whether a character is gay or not, especially for people watching it for the first time. Also, the scenes in stranger things are generally quite quick paced and short, meaning many small details will just go right over someone’s head.

I do however, feel comfortable saying that people (like a lot of mileven shippers) are media illiterate when they are presented with objective fact or interesting evidence and analysis and all they do is blindly refute it and call us delusional, when they could just have an open mind.

I also very much understand why a lot of bylers (basically all of us) got extremely angry after season 4 vol. 2, because hopes were high (for good reason tbh) because it all happened so fast and it’s easy to jump to the conclusion that the duffers are terrible writers rather than spend hours trying to analyse shots and subtext.

[thefirstlioveyou]

byler hate is such an interesting thing to me genuinely. in fandom, it’s rare for a gay ship to be so hated. but then again, this show’s audience is very, very big. you get a little of everything… then you got reddit.

like i get not liking a certain ship for whatever reason, that’s valid. but going to lengths to-

- say it makes no sense

- erase canon events and information/editing screencaps

- ignoring obvious microexpressions that you know you would notice if it were straight

- treating shippers like they’re predators (not like this is anything new for queer people lol)

- calling people delusional for being analytical of a fictional narrative… as if analyzing media hasn’t been part of the education system since forever.

- say it’s only there to be ‘woke’ or fanservice when the only confirmed fanservice ship was mileven

- make excuses that it’s because they hate noah but they were hating on it anyways prior

- calling will a faggot so casually. it’s insane that this mostly comes from queer people too. sounds like pure projection to me idk

but yeah other than that this all sounds like a pretty normal reaction to a potiential gay relationship in a tv show what do yall think🤔

[hnbka]

guys i js can't do it sometimes like why tf are milkvan shippers always saying we're delusional like its half canon??? im so confused??? and the whole mileven IS canon therefore it IS endgame?? so are jancy and jopper aka

the other two lovely ships on either side of byler not real?? they are exactly the same as byler

[mileven11forever]

Hi, Byler shipper here!

Most of my exposure to pro-Mileven arguments has been homophobes dropping into Bylers' ask boxes to call us delusional perverts -- so it was refreshing to stumble across your blog and get a look at what the average Mileven shipper actually believes.

If you don't mind, would you be willing to recommend other Mileven blogs who you feel are good at analysis? I've had a hard time finding them amidst the shipping war noise. (I won't harass them or bring them to the attention of the Byler tag, I promise -- I'm just here to gain some perspective.)

Thank you!

I appreciate your curiosity and kindness. I've also had some difficultly finding good analyses from Milevens on here too, because of the shipping wars like you said, and there are just way more Bylers on here than Milevens unfortunately. But anyway, here are some Mileven analysis posts that I really like:

1 - The "Will" Of It All

2 - Mileven analysis by lenorahills

3 - Single vs Independent

[byler4vida]

The thing about these Mileven shippers is that I truly don't believe that they are delusional, that they truly believe with their whole heart that Mike and Eleven are gonna be endgame, I feel like they know deep down that Byler is the ship that's gonna be canon but they just don't want accept it so that's why they go on a freaking rampage that "Mileven is endgame", "Mike doesn't love Will, only El" etc, I don't think they genuinely believe that Microwave is gonna be Endgame, because ain't no way they are that stupid bro, I'm mean- the truth is in the pudding bro 😭😭😭🤣🤣 it's right in front of their God damn faces lol .

Also I wanted to talk about something else,

The fact that these Mileven shippers are sooooo passionate about a ship that doesn't exist and will literally go on rampage, insulting people etc, is actually very concerning, obviously I'm not saying that all Mileven shippers are like that, pretty sure there are ones that are actually sane and have a life that doesn't revolve around a ship. Like please get some help, go to therapy or something because this is so not normal behavior. I absolutely love Byler with my whole heart and it's literally my life but that doesn't mean that I'm extreme about it like these Milevens are, if Byler wasn't canon then yes, I would be sad but I would also move on, I would still ship them obviously but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna let that define my whole life yk. But If Byler doesn't become canon in S5, then it would be understandable if we went on rampage because that would mean that they've literally just queerbaited us and it would just make no sense, imagine how the people who are still in the closet would feel? To me, it's important and it's necessary for Byler to become endgame, it has to.

God damn I went on a whole rant 🤣🤣

[royalsy-queen]

I'm having the time of my life on twt right now because I responded to a Milkvan shipper trying to make the "crazy toghether" scene about them and when I politely argued what I wanted to express as "bitch no the fuck?" they kept going around and dodgin my questions. It took them 3 singular replies until they whipped out the word "Delusional" and call us (yes, all of us, I'm sorry Byler nation, it appears that we're also a hive mind) ignorant. I've been going at this for more than an hour, they still haven't answered my question and they haven't given me solid proof that Mileven will be endgame or how, in their opinion, Will's love is unrequited. I'm legit laughing so hard because I know that there's no use in trying to change their mentality, but I love a good polite and respectful debate (that appears to be happening only on my part lmao) and it gives me an oportunity to be ever so slightly sassy. I'll post screencaps later, when this eventually ends on them probably cursing the shit out of me because they've ran out of points. I think my favourite moment is when they straight up replied "Cope" I'm pissing myself this is so funny

[etherealwanderings]

Can Milkvans stop calling bylers delusional when most of us are literally former mileven shippers who just opened their eyes about some stuffs after season 4 got released? Like no we aren't delusional we just see stuffs that you don't but if more than 67% of the former mileven shippers left the fandom after season 4, there must be a reason behind that = the show isn'tin its favor.

[most-canon-non-canon-ship-poll]

literally hoping they break up in the last season

Why Mileven is shit - a submission-based essay, part 2/3

Mileven - a currently canon het ship from the Stranger Things fandom between Michael (Mike) Wheeler and Jane (Eleven) Ives/Hopper/Byers/IDK

they NEED to breakup (AGAIN) in the final season let's start w their character arcs rn. el was born in a lab and was raised VERY strict to be a weapon and shit. she escapes and now her whole arc is finding herself and being who she is separate to what people tell her she is. mike comes from a lowkey conservative family with parents who are married only to fit into the normal, not because they love each other. his arc, similar to his sisters' struggle in earlier seasons, is to not fall into conformity just because you feel like you should. both of these stories line up with the main moral of the show: be who you are even if it isn't "normal" ot whatever now how does mileven go against this? mike, and a bunch of ppl around el, in the earlier seasons keeps telling el what she should do/be. even in the later seasons we see mike refering to el as a "superhero" (which she doesn't like). neither of them feel free to be themselves around the other (shown by el lying to mike and mike being WAY out of character around el, etc). mike literally can't tell el he loves her while not under pressure. mileven sometimes parallels mike's parents' and sta.cy (a failed conformity relationship) and other bad relationships ANYWAYS it also reallyyyy pains will byers (who's been canonically in love with mike for like years, and mike's best friend) to see this. also, milevens keep harassing will/mike shippers on anon even months after the last season. like they have a hate discord server just for it. anyways i love mike and el but ohhh my god there is still SO much i haven't mentioned about how bad they are together (and how bad shippers often are, sometimes being violently homophobic and calling bylers delusional and shit)

OOOH IT FUCKING SUCKS THEY ARE SOOOOOO BAD FOR EACH OTHER JESUS THEY DON'T COMMUNICATE LIKE EVER THEY ARE BOTH CLEARLY IN IT BECAUSE OF THE EXPECTATION OF A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN'T CONFIDE IN EACH OTHER THEY DON'T SHARE ANY INTERESTS THEY'RE HAVING CONFLICT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THANK *GOD* I AM UTTERLY CONVINCED THEY ARE HEADING FOR A CANONICAL PERMANENT BREAKUP. NOT TO MENTION THEY ARE BOTH GAY AS HELL TO ME. YOU SEEN THAT "THIS SHIP IS SO CANON AND IT'S A LESBIAN AND A GAY MAN" TWEET? YEAH. FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING SHIP NOT TO MENTION THE SHIPPERS ARE FREQUENTLY OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC. UGHHHHHHH KILLING BITING (this is my fave btw)

they have no chemistry or buildup unlike the other st couples. they kissed season 1 right after she asked if he would be her brother. hes very obviously compensating for something. i think i gagged when they made out in season 3. speaking of. thats all they do. make out. they dont really have meaningful conversations. this also comes from the fact that when mike met her she was fresh out the lab that abused her for like 11 years. she was not socially ready to understand the bounds of a platonic relationship let alone a romantic one. anyway mileven break up s5 will happen i believe it. if nothing else. cross ur fingers gamers

the sheer homophobia and general toxicity that the fans of this ship create is absolutely insane when their perfect (read: mischaracterized) straight (read: homosexually-coded) couple is judged for having toxic or incompatible elements is insane. the only good romantic aspect between these two characters is in a cringefail "wow this really doesn't work at all" i-want-to-put-this-dynamic-under-a-microscope-and-study-it-because-it's-an-absolute-trainwreck" kind of way. el has been abused and cut off from society her whole life and at 12 years old she immediately gets together with this guy at whose earth shattered after his best friend went missing who then has surviors guilt after she almost does which is misconstrued as romantic rather than unhealthy obsession and trauma. and so on and so forth.. there's just so much wrong they lie to each other So Fucking Much despite truthfulness being very important to them and they ignore their friends to make out (which is filmed in a way that is meant to feel uncomfortable btw lmao) and el doesn't understand mike's trauma from bullying and he doesn't understand how she doesn't want to be built up into being a superhero etc etc. and it's just so increasingly bad I want to rub my temples just thinking about them. they're just so bad for each other and their relationship has done nothing but make them worse in general but for some reason their ship is viewed as fluffy or cute or whatever the hell. anyway mike is so heavily coded to be fucking gay and in love with his best friend (and el can be interpreted to be lesbian coded) and I just need to get them out of there amen

I'm gonna make a list bc the reasons are many: 1) their first casual interaction they get together but in the same conversation she asks him if she can be like a sister to him 2) all their "cute moments" are them making out in the 3rd season with still absolutely no chemistry 3) their only actual cute scene is them dancing at the snowball yet in the same scene they portray the same way two couples that are not romantic 4) mike becomes a terrible person when he's with eleven 5) eleven literally GOT OUT OF A LAB SHE WAS RAISED IN and this is the first guy she dated 6) she can't even say he's a good kisser 7) mike can't tell her that he loves her (bc he doesn't) and the only time he does he makes this whole ugly ass speech up about how she's his "superhero" even though she doesn't want to be seen only for her superpowers 8) in said speech, while listing the things that he loves about her, he only names her superpowers + he lies multiple times 9) EVEN AFTER SAID SPEECH she is still mad at him and won't talk to him (probably bc she saw right through his bs) 10) she spent a whole 6 months lying to him about all of her life 11) mike is clearly gay and is meant to be with his childhood best friend will 12) mike idolizes her and doesn't see her as an actual person 13) eleven needs to be her own person (ffs she just got out of a lab) 14) the ship sucks and even the authors and actors say so

they have NO chemistry. they kissed after one week of knowing each other when they were 12 and eleven didn't even know what a romantic relationship was at the time, given the fact that right before mike kisses her she says "will you be like my brother?". they spent the entirety of season 2 apart with mike calling el on his walkie and el watching romantic movies on the tv for a year (then will is in trouble and mike says 'fuck it' and goes full protective boyfriend mode but this isn't about byler so i digress) and start dating soon after they meet again even though they haven't had a SINGLE conversation and are barely friends. season 3 comes along and the writers do their utmost best to show us how incompatible they are. their makeout scenes are uncomfortable, they break up at the beginning of the season and neither one of them seems particularly bothered that their first relationship is over. in fact, the happiest we see el in the entire series is during the time they're broken up, when she gets close to max (who she actually has chemistry with, by the way) and finally experiences freedom, being a teenage girl and etc since mike had been "keeping her all to himself" for like, a year. aside from that, he doesn't go after her at all after she dumps his ass (literally) but when he and will have a fight, he bikes across town in the rain just to apologize, that boy is GAY. finally, the theme of season 4 is lies and once again, mike and el spend the season apart (once again, mike spends the season with WILL) and right before they part ways, they have a big fight about mike being unable to so much as WRITE "love, mike" on his letters to el, let alone say it, and he bullshits his way through it and refuses to say the actual reason until vol. 2, when he apparently "confesses" that he's afraid he'll lose her if he says it (okay, amigo, you're gonna lose your girlfriend who was literally begging you to say 'i love you' not even a week ago, aham, totally valid excuse). conclusion: they don't know each other and they don't act like themselves when they're together. mike hides his nerdy nature, el feels like she has to be the amazing superhero he's always viewed her as or else he'll lose interest and it just feels like they're both grasping at straws because this relationship has been dragged on for too long that they don't know how to break up permanently. they are afraid of losing each other, but not romantically, as mike was el's first semblance of family after escaping the lab and mike feels like it's his duty to protect and care for el. also, mike is gay. in other words, FREE THEM.

[pholiabanna]

Are you dense? Most Bylers dont tag their posts as 'anti mileven' it's why they all appear in the mileven tag. Please learn how to tag things. Even some of the Bylers made posts about Bylers' illiteracy regarding tags 💀.

I usually dont even care about Bylers but you guys just dont know how to use tags that's why your posts are flooding our tag and the reason i sent an anon ask is because we are literally forced to see your guys' shitty takes every day.

You guys are delusional and sound like conspiracy theorists too which is why reading your posts and your inability to use tags properly is annoying as fuck.

And I dont care about you being delusional. Your delusions are entertaining and you guys will become a ass job of the whole fandom, you are already becoming one increasinly. You are the fandoms' new Johnlockers, Destiel shippers, Klances and other variation of delusional fanon mlm ships from other media. And dont even bother to explain how Byler is so different from those other ships lol bc it is pointless. Each of those shippers claim the same thing, how their ships were different from other mlm fanon ships from other media. You guys are not special or different please accept this.

I don't care if you or the other 5 melvin shippers that are left think me or anyone else is delusional (maybe you're the one who will have a meltdown in season 5 by the way). At least we know how to have fun. I'm only asking you to leave me alone because you came to my inbox unprompted, and I've always tagged things correctly, so I think you're taking all of this out on the wrong person. And with that, I won't contribute to this conversation anymore, I'll just post this so you can see it and you leave me alone.