#and this along with the biases that are already there *before* they're confirmed by certain situations and color *both* SS and Hafsa's | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

saccharinemeat · 2 years ago

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Since this is neutral and assuming good faith, here's a level-headed reply as best as possible

Fiction DOES affect reality we all know this, antis have created a strawman argument that proshippers believe that "fiction doesn't affect reality" 100% no nuances.

Bu,there is a nuance and the entire phrase that proshippers use is 'fiction doesn't affect reality on a 1:1 scale" That is to say, we are aware of the nuance of media depictions and how they affect things

One big aspect is that we're not advocating for a normalization of problematic behavior in real life. Let's use as an example, the concept of 'Rape culture' (RC)

RC is real. it was perpetually confirmed through several societal levels, jokes about assault were common and expected, there was a lot of blame put on the victims without question, and there was,in fact, a lot of 'lighthearted' depictions of assault in media.

Now, all of these are symptoms of RC, not the causes of it. Currently, it is frowned upon to joke about SA, people are aware of what victing blaming is, and the media depictions of it on media are either done through a serious lense or criticized if they show such a thing in a lighthearted way without nuances.

Culture changed.

However that doesn't mean we got rid of all media with bad depictions,it just means that it's just looked at in a different way,some people enjoy it for what it is in a critical way. They enjoy it as 'problematic' content.

Humanity is often attracted to the weird and taboo and there are several reasons to still enjoy media that is morally reprehensible to others,and it doesn't excuse RC as a whole, for example, using such content to cope, or finding it arousing in a fantasy kind of way.

Contrary to popular anti belief, thought crimes are not something to be persecuted over as long as you don't act on them. Along with that, most keep such thoughts to a fictional fantastic setting and know their nuances. (i.e ; people into incest nsfw most often are against irl incestual situations and would be repulsed by the idea of partaking in it with a relative)

So. Back to your question

"We spent so much of the 2010's advocating for queer and POC representation,bc media has an influence on reality...but being an anti is bad because media doesn't influence reality?"

well as i said, media DOES influence reality in some ways, but if you look at it, it's more often the other way around.

Reality influences media, actually. Media changed not because of advocacy alone but also because as a whole society we've changed reality to be better and more positive towards inclusive media, therefore , media changed.

Reality nowadays is that homophobia is bad,therefore homophobia in media is bad.*

(*yes it was always bad,but now it's recognized as a bad thing at a societal level)

Media has an influence in reality in the sense that it keeps feeding the loop, it perpetuates certain things that people already thought.

Racism existed and was accepted,therefore,racist cartoons were created and influenced already racist people to believe racism was pkay because it was so lighthearted in media.

POC never wanted or liked racist cartoons that depicted racist stereotypes.

People were afraid of sharks before JAWS, and JAWS gave them a reason to be more afraid and confirmed their biases against sharks.

Now, to the 'but antis are bad?' part.

Yes,they are. that's the short, dry answer

The longer answer is that, yes, they are, because antis advocate for censorship and puritanism. If anyone believes fiction affects reality 1:1 without any nuance, that's antis.

But the thing is, is that they were outright about it they'd get laughed at so they're just...really inconsistent in their beliefs

Problematic stuff is bad until an anti likes it, for example, a lot of antis are part of fandoms known for their problematic content (Hazbin hotel, Danganronpa, South Park even).

Problematic stuff is bad unless it's interesting in it's ideas regardless of how 'problematic' the authors are (i picture fandoms like Homestuck,Omori, Made in Abyss and Toilet-Bound hanako-kun)

Problematic stuff is bad unless it's violent, as some antis actually love gore and kinks involving violence (as long as it isn't sexual violence and is all consented, fandoms for stuff like Hannibal and Yandere-aligned games come to mind)

And if this sounds hypocritical,it really is. And antis cannibalize each other, some antis hate other antis over all of these things and make endless callouts to each other.

Antis advocate for people to be ashamed of what they enjoy in fiction,they advocate for the erasure of everything that's problematic in any way. They have issues with media literacy and assume that anyone who enjoys problematic media must condone this. An example of this is the intense hatred for the book Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov despite the book not portraying its pedophilic narrator as good at all.

Problematic stuff is bad, but antis MUST show it to everyone else to cause outrage over it's 'degeneracy' and they hate the 'freaks' that make such art. They want displays of anger so badly they post barely censored porn in places where children are. Some of the people foing that are also,children, who sneak their way into adult spaces.

Another axis about antis is that they put fictional characters over real people. They'd rather wish harm,death and sexual violence upon real people than just ignore a drawing or fanfic they don't like.

"how would YOU feel if people did art of you as a kid having sex with an adult?!" I would feel bad, and that would be a crime, as drawing real children in sexual situations is y'know, fucking illegal. However if you were to draw my underage kid OC,who is fictional, being tortured and sexualized, i would at most be annoyed. Cause that oc is not a PERSON.

Another thing is how antis interact with minors. A lot of predatory adult antis label themselves as 'safe' adults and interact and befriend child antis and gain their trust over their shared hatred of proshippers. And they call adult proshippers predatory and creepy even though proshippers are against children being in adult spaces.

I hope I don't have to explain how much easier it is for a predator to hide within the anti crowd.

Is it more creepy to self label as a 'safe adult shipper,minors feel free to talk to me im not a freak' or to explicitly say 'minors do NOT interact or youll be blocked on sight'

I could go on and on and on. Antis are conservative people in woke fandom hats and they just want anger.

I'm not saying that proshipping is perfect,though. There are conservative people who put on a proship hat and use it to justify enjoying messed up stuff while being racist, homophobic and transphobic.

However in a base level, antis are not good. They don't care for artistic nuances,or the people who they attack. And cover it up by saying proshippers 'dont believe fiction affects reality '

So yeah. tl;dr

- Fiction does affects reality but it's not in a one to one scale

- Reality affects Fiction just as much

- Antis are bad

Ok I’ve been seeing a lot of this stuff floating around… tbh I am so confused. This is just a neutral question, I am not on anyone’s side here…

But we spent so much of the 2010’s advocating for queer and POC representation in media, bc media has an influence on reality… but also being an “anti” is bad because media doesn’t influence reality? I’m legitimately confused.

I would like someone to clarify their stance about the proshipping thing.

#long post #tired charcoal cookie noises #oh boy that's a lotta text

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automatismoateo · 4 years ago

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(Final Update) My(m18) Parents yelled at me because I don't want a graduation party at my house during Covid, so they're gonna invite 40+ people from church instead. As a result of everything, my brothers have recently renounced their faith as well via /r/atheism

Submitted May 05, 2021 at 11:43PM by Throaramagazine (Via reddit https://ift.tt/3nOnBV0) (Final Update) My(m18) Parents yelled at me because I don't want a graduation party at my house during Covid, so they're gonna invite 40+ people from church instead. As a result of everything, my brothers have recently renounced their faith as well

It's been a couple of weeks, and I wanted to write about a few things that have happened since my last post. A lot of people gave some really great advice, and I've tried my best to start some of it in motion as well... not just for the party that is in a couple of weeks, but also for the future and getting closer to supporting myself

Before I start though, I want to take a moment to thank everyone who commented and offered advice and sympathy. As I mentioned previously, I doubted myself for years and believed they were right in many ways until recently and the responses to my last posts, the last post being the one that hurt most, the one where my dad said I needed "medical help" for not defending homeschooling to my friends throughout the years, the same friends who they would go out of their way to destroy relationships with, by insulting their parents to a degree where they wouldn’t let their kids hang out with me like I mentioned last time

From reading your responses and other stories on Reddit after finding the site, it’s done wonders in many ways and provided comfort and confidence too, providing insight into real world relationships/perspectives that I never received being homeschooled for 12 years, only knowing people from church and our homeschool group through our church for the most part, and while I understand that you should take everything with a grain of salt, I feel like I've actually learned a lot from other posts and replies, certain things to do and not do from the examples and stories of others

Before I start the update though, I want to say that I don’t feel like recapping everything I did last time, since it gets a little repetitive to be honest with you. However, I want to address some of the steps I’ve taken since last time, along with something I wasn’t comfortable to share originally, my most recent trauma that adds some perspective into this graduation situation, and something I’m still trying to fully overcome in my mind. I didn’t plan to share it at first, but given how therapeutic the first two posts were and their responses, I wanted to add them here and make them the focus of today, the issue that led into my graduation that opened my eyes to how wrong my parents were for years, and it ties into my current financial situation as well

_____________________________

I want to touch on the job I currently have, since a lot of people said that being financially independent is a major part in getting away from them. The job I have now, is actually my second job, and while I sometimes like it, I don't love it like my first job, and I want to explain why. From the months of last October through December, I had what I believe to be my first experience of depression, and I want to talk about it and my most recent struggle, the situation that led into this graduation party

My parents helped me find my first job when I turned 16, and it was a retail job that I loved very much. I was hired before the store opened, and one of my fears with being homeschooled and going into the workforce, was that I'd have a hard time fitting in with people from being isolated, but since this store was yet to open, there would be no friend groups that were already established, so I felt that I had an equal footing to create those groups at the same time as everyone else was potentially shy too, since my social awkwardness wouldn't stand out as much

We built the store from scratch when there was nothing on the shelves. We had a few weeks until the store opened, and it was really amazing to see how it all came together. Another positive thing, was that most of the kids who were hired were from the local high schools, and the store was mostly 80% high schoolers and people around my age, the high school experience that I never got to experience, something that made me excited to go to work each day, and my parents could see just how happy I was to be around other kids… something they wouldn’t like as time went on, but I’ll get back to that

However, I still had a tough time making friends, and when I was paired with other kids for various things, I was scared to talk to them and didn't know what to say, and when they would sometimes talk about school things/friends or world topics I didn't know, I just didn't know how to join the conversation, and that pretty much remained for my entire first year

After a year of being there, our department managers met with everyone for their yearly evaluation, and my evaluation was absolutely terrible (our first year evaluation came 4 months in, because of how late we opened). I remember having the wrong mentality when I worked my first year, although I don't blame myself for having it as of writing this. My mentality was to make friends and have the high school experience that I never had, but when I kept telling myself that I would talk to others and get out of my comfort zone, I could never do it when opportunities came, just like getting cold feet when trying to ask out a girl, only to keep pushing it to next time

In my first year evaluation, I was rated a 2/5 and "in need of major improvement" from my department manager, and the areas he highlighted was needing to finish my workload faster with more urgency and care, since I was always down and disappointed in myself and only focusing on friends and how I wasn't making any

Well, just like sports and after a tough loss growing up, that really ticked me off, and I used it as motivation to get better the next year, just like my tennis mentality of always trying to become the best in every group. I wanted to be the best one in my department, and before my next shift, I went shopping and changed my wardrobe and began carrying myself much differently at work, focusing less on making friends and just finishing my assignments and then going beyond them and helping others in their departments because I would finish my work early... something that later got me picked on by other kids/managers for "caring too much" about a "meaningless" job, and from their perspective (mostly the younger people), I now see where they're coming from as I’m slightly older now

The manager who did my evaluation noticed my wardrobe change, and he also began to notice my improved work effort and get behind me, giving me more responsibility (such as closing down registers and handling money) and giving me supervisor/price overriding numbers too, not to mention shouting me out to other managers who also began to notice

As months went by, other people began talking to me, and I also began to make a few acquaintances, although I don’t have any of them as of writing this. Fast forward a year, and my next evaluation comes. The same manager who did my first one told me that I was graded a 4/5 by all of the managers, and he was also impressed with how I had improved myself, something he said the other managers and himself didn't expect, and he also asked me if I wanted to become a supervisor in the coming year (in which I would be 18 by the time it was all said and done, since they were starting to look for a few around that time), and I was surprised and said I'd be interested

In the coming months, I was assigned with a task of sorting deliveries that came into the backroom for a few months, and after doing very well on that task, he began moving me to different departments to get a feel of different areas in the store as well, and this allowed me to be seen by a few more people including kids my age who were starting to take notice, and after completing the tour of departments, my manager said that they would give me the position in the coming weeks and that I basically had it, and I remember how excited I was

It was also around this time that a girl began talking to me from one of the other departments, something I never expected to happen at this job, and during my second year, we would begin to hang out outside and after work, and she wanted to hang out way before she knew about my promotion, since no one knew about it until it'd be official. She didn’t care that I was homeschooled, and she seemed to just like me for me, and she also vented to me about things about her parents, and she had quickly become my best friend at the job

However, it was around then that I began to enter a really bad state, and it started around the time that things began to look up. After hanging out with her and even playing video games for a few months, we were about to make it official that we were dating after 7 months, and we discussed it too.

However, after being confirmed for the supervisor position and after having it announced to the rest of the store, my manager told me that the other managers changed their minds last minute and decided to give the position to someone else instead, a girl from a different department who was dating one of the other managers, and while my manager disapproved of what they did, he gave me a few reasons that they used that still hurt me to this day to think about

He told me that it was “not based around my work performance”, since he said that “I knew almost every technical area of the store”. Instead, it was based around certain biases that the other managers had. The first being that, they only chose to see me for my first impression and not how I improved, according to him, and the second was that they thought I was really stupid and "too introverted and shy" and “just looked down on me and homeschooling”, and here's the example he gave me

When other managers would talk about their relationships and non-work-related things with other employees and me, I would remain quiet and not know how to enter the conversation and just seemed uncomfortable, but in addition to that, it was things I didn’t know too that just seemed really basic, and here’s what I mean. I remember one evening when I made a fool out of myself for not knowing something that they couldn’t believe I didn’t know, and it happened when an employee called an annoying customer a ‘karen’ after closing up for the night, and when I asked if they were talking about an employee whose actual name was Karen, they couldn’t believe I didn’t know and just laughed at me, and someone said how I was homeschooled and told them to "take it easy", but I remember feeling horrible and just stupid about it, since that just epitimizes how people look down at me as a homeschooler and how sheltered I was. My manager also said that he received "a lot of flack" for wanting to promote someone who they deemed "wasn't bright or intelligent" despite knowing all of the work technicalities of the job

After finding out that they had changed their mind about promoting me, I remember being sad after telling my parents that I was going to be promoted months ago, but they were never happy because of how I raved about having a high school experience there with people my age, and they really hated that and said “I was learning a lot of worldly things” and “things they tried to keep me away from” and that “I should leave my job” because I was hearing other opinions than theirs, the main reason they wanted to homeschool me from the beginning, to keep me from being around “worldly people” (her favorite phrase… basically anyone who’s not a Christian)

When I told them that they had promoted someone else after promising me the position, I remember asking my dad if they could legally do that after announcing it and making it official, and I also told them that it happened to me because I was homeschooled and how “they looked down on me”. But when I cried to them about it, they got angry at me for "blaming it on god" and "blaming it on homeschooling" and not "defending homeschooling to them" when they tried to put me down, along with “playing a victim like every black person who gets corrected” by blaming homeschooling as the reason why I am not socially adequate, which she compared to black people throwing around racial inequality “because it’s popular and easy, just like how girls lie about men hitting them to benefit”, and I hate that example whenever they use it. She would continue to say how "god does stuff to draw us back to him" and how "he gives and takes away" and nonsense like that and other stuff about "getting my life back in order with god", and it just made me feel worse, but not at my lowest yet. I wanted them to help me see if they could legally do that, but they refused to give me answers and kept throwing god at me

All of this happened right around when me and the girl were about to make our relationship official, including finally saying "I love you" after 7 months too, but after feeling like crap and having my parents play the abusive god card and being yelled at until I cried and thinking that this was god’s "punishment" and that I had done something wrong, I told her that “while I know I said I love you”, that I "had some stuff going on" that was affecting me emotionally (the job and embarrassment and my parents, not to mention rumors about me doing something terrible to lose the position at my job) and "wasn't ready to commit just yet"... words I now regret, but just remember being a mess, although it doesn't excuse what I said

She took it okay and said that that was fine and looked sad, but after that night, she stopped responding to me completely. Didn't matter over text or call, she even blocked me on social media in the coming weeks, and this on top of the embarrassment and hurt from the promotion and stuff from my parents, stuff that made me call out a bunch of days and stay bedridden and cry and do a bunch of stupid things to try and feel anything, and this lasted for a couple of weeks too

She wouldn't talk to me, and my parents were happy with how everything happened, since to them, it saw it as karma for me "walking away from god", and they'd take every chance they could get to rub it in my face. And after reading a bunch of relationship posts on Reddit now (something I didn't do back then), I know that I hurt my soon-to-be girlfriend by letting my hurt affect our relationship and ask for space, and if I could take back those words, I would in a heartbeat and regret them everyday. I was a coward to react that way, having no comfort from my family or anyone at the job when I was sad, but that still wasn’t an excuse to ask for space because of my emotional state. However, my parents used my emotional state to make me buy into their religious crap one more time, and this is probably the most hurtful thing of my life recently

I remember being so desperate, that I actually listened to them and did a Bible study for 3 months out of "repentance" thinking that she would return by some miracle (in my first ever breakup), something that they told me “would happen” when I had never felt in my entire life. I never thought anyone would ever be interested in me as a homeschooler and that I'd never be social enough to meet anyone or even get married. But after 3 months of crying and time going by, it was then that I began to finally realize that they were wrong and some of the realization that I have now. But they forced me to leave my job in "an act of faith to trust God to give me something better" after losing my promotion that would've gave me $19 an hour instead of $15 like I was making

Update

I'm in a grocery store now, making $15 again. I've been here since leaving my first job, and the pain of everything doesn't hurt as much, months later, although sometimes, it still really does. I hate myself for how I let myself buy into their "Bible study to make her come back" which was manipulative of my emotional state and first ever time around kids not in church, and I hope to move up in this new job at some point, but my parents have been angry at me for stopping the Bible study after the breakup stage, saying that "I gave up on God" and only "used him for what I wanted" and other stuff like that

My 2 young brothers also saw what happened and my bedridden stage, and as of a result, have both recently renounced their faith, something my parents are very angry with me about, and possibly carrying over that anger into their graduation demands. My brothers are 13 and 16 and have both decided that, and my youngest has said that he plans to go NC with my parents from 18 on and not go to college

In regards to the party, I talked with one of my cousins who said that they'd be willing to take me in during the party and potentially more time after that, for the simple basic reason of “mom trying to kill people by having an illegal party” not to mention the emotional abuse

As for my finances, I have inquired about opening my own checking account for my new job, since I used to share the same bank with my parents for the past 2 years. My uncle helped me with that, and he’s been really awesome. But what I just mentioned in regards to my first job, is what opened my eyes to the wrong in my parents, and while I understand that none of my abuse excuses how much of a coward I was when I pushed my girlfriend away out of stupid pity for myself, I am hoping/working to better myself as a person, and it starts with me learning how to say no to them, something I’ve gotten better doing a little since leaving my first job, realizing that god isn’t some genie in a bottle like she tried to make me believe he’d “make her return” like some vision she pulled out of her behind. I want to better myself for the next person I meet, and some of the small steps I’ve taken and putting my foot down with this party, will help build a backbone that I hope to have as a father one day and someone who will learn what not to do from my parents

$19 from my promotion would've been nice to have while trying to move out, but you can’t change the past, so I try not to look back, although sometimes the past still gets me. As others have recommended, I'm constantly looking into new jobs and potential trade schools, and I even practiced taking the train to the city on my own during the last week too, since my cousin lives out there and he'd be willing to help me out

With all of that said, here is my question. My brothers have reached out to me and look at me in place of my parents (in some ways), and they’ve begun opening up about how much they hate them for homeschooling them without their consent and forcing them to stay homeschooled… and when my youngest asked if he could go to public school, he was yelled at and similar stuff that happened to me in the past, and the 16 year old apologized for taking my parents’ side in recent years, and this is after they have both renounced their faith

My question is this… I’m still trying to move on, and I haven’t done anything yet to be seen as an example to them by any means, but I don’t know how to help them when I can’t even help myself, and my parents don’t want me to talk to them anymore and have had conversations scolding me for “putting garbage in their heads”, and if I talk to them, they will also get punished. How do I manage this situation and help them, if I should even help them at all right now for their safety, since they’ve lost a lot of privileges permanently for renouncing their faith, and I want to help them along with continuing to help myself. Any other advice is appreciated, and if you read all of that, I really appreciate it, and any advice on how to move on from my first job and this graduation mentally, would be appreciated too. My brothers are getting the worse of my parents for turning against them after seeing what happened to me, and one of my relatives has even considered calling CPS, but is unsure of if he’d be okay with taking the youngest one away from his parents if he’s accepting of it, and I just want to add that too

If I update in the future, it'll probably be after the party in over a month, but if you read all of that, I really appreciate it, and your advice has really helped me so much more than you'd ever know

TL;DR: I've tried my best to take a few more steps following the advice that others gave leading up to the party, but I really appreciate all of the comments and support, it's been really therapeutic. However, I want to add something I didn't add in my first two updates, my most recent trauma that I didn't tell anyone about, and something I'm still trying to overcome myself, the thing that made me realize how wrong they are for the first time. My brothers have also renounced their faith as a result of watching some of the things that I went through

#reddit

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