#and then we have the qin state that conquered every one else and did the qin dinasty (right?)

[cepheusgalaxy]

Is there somebody here who rlly likes Chinese History bc I'm really confused in the timeline here

[ruffoverthinksthings]

The Xiongnu and You: A Headcanon Guide to Mulan’s “Huns” in the Descendants Verse

What do you think happened to the Huns after they were sent to the Isle? Personally, I think that Auradon sent most of the Xiongnu (Shan Yu's people) to the isle to avoid future problems.

In my opinion, I think Mulan would have been a better movie if we had mention on why the Huns attacked China. I think it would have shown more than the ‘Good’ vs. ‘Evil’ mentality. I mean, wars happen for a reason, either a legitimate or stupid reason, but a reason regardless.

Like what if the war was because Shan Yu wanted to expand his empire for goods and the economy.

For my fic that I’m writing, I’ve been doing research on Shan Yu’s people, the Xiongnu and the Chinese relations and it’s a lot more complicated than ‘Oh, he’s attacking because he’s evil.’

Wouldn’t been interesting if Shan Yu was a little more complex? Like yeah, he invaded a country and burned down a town, but who's to say that the Chinese army didn’t burn down a Xiongnu village. We only see from Mulan’s POV, so we didn’t see everything at happened during the war throughout all of China.

War is complex and tricky and when written down, it is in the POV of the winners.

My oc, who’s the daughter of Shan Yu is not evil, although she is not the friendliest of people, she takes pride in her people and heritage. I can see her being pissed off in history class at Auradon Prep when they are going through Chinese history and they are portraying her people as barbarians. She states that it’s more complex than that.

@mazuru7

Yes, Auradon did in fact send some or most of the Xiongnu people (or “Huns,” as Mulan misnames them) because of the War with China, and their history before that. Little bit of background context, a mix of historical accounts and my own headcanons because Mulan is an anachronistic mess as is:

The war depicted in the movie happens after the Warring States Period, where the six states of Han, Zhao, Yan, Wei, Chu, and Qi, were conquered and unified by the seventh Qin state, and became the first unified “China.” In my research, there was mention of them expanding into the territories occupied by nomadic people like the Xiongnu, and even the Xiongnu being conquered and enslaved by the various Chinese states during, and before this period.

During the Han Dynasty, the period where the “Great Wall” was built, they have been mentioned to have repeatedly attacked and invaded China, the progress of their societies relying entirely China’s because they constantly sought and demanded “tribute” from them, had marriages between the Xiongnu and China (that didn’t last long or were successful, politically speaking, and weren’t popular decisions--“humiliating” is a word used), and some Chinese leaders that hired Xiongnu generals, only to have them turn against their masters and start their own independent states.

Whether this is necessity after having lost their lands and being forced to rely on China for their daily needs, or the same greed and lust for power that leads other states to go on military conquest and dominate others, is up to you.

What I can say definitively, though, is that yes, the War and Shan Yu’s behaviour was much more than just “Oh, he’s evil.” In Mulan, China is painted as this noble, civilized society that is fighting a war of self-defense, but History is Written by the Winners indeed, and it’s not like many pinnacles of society and progress didn’t bloody their hands and have some ugly, ugly pasts indeed.

Examples and the rest of this long piece below.

Rome was a big fan of the coliseum and going to war to expand their territory, and much of their infrastructure ran on slavery,

Western Europe, which most of Auradon belongs to, invaded, robbed, and conquered numerous countries and indigenous peoples for their own selfish needs, and

America had many sordid business in becoming the “Shining City on the Hill,” like the extermination of Native American tribes, African-American Slavery, and of course, their less than glorious wars, such as the Iraq war.

That the Chinese may have also burned a Xiongnu village is just one “evil” action among many: as mentioned above, the Chinese were the ones that invaded, conquered, and enslaved the nomadic Xiongnu people, and I don’t doubt that what accounts we do have were heavily biased.

Who’s to say that all of the behaviours we’ve seen from them—the raids, the faltering marriages, the betrayal of their Chinese masters—wasn’t done from desperation, necessity, and a desire to turn away from the tyrants that had “corralled them like farm animals,” as I assume Shan Yu might say?

There was also the possibility that before China fused with Auradon, emboldened by their victory against the Huns and the marriage alliance in Mulan’s sequel, they were already well on their way to pushing back against the Xiongnu, exterminating or scattering them to the point where historians don’t even bother to mention them anymore.

Maybe all of the Xiongnu were thrown onto the Isle, maybe some of them were spared, but I can guarantee you that the ones that did end up there alongside Shan Yu are very bitter about their situation, to say the least.

They harbour an inherent distrust and disgust towards Auradon and especially that of China, seeing them as tyrants masquerading as “the Good Guys,” and would rather die before they subscribe to Maleficent’s rule. I imagine that they actually separated from the Isle society at large, ruling either a mountainous, hostile region of the wilds, or being a third party vying for territory and control over the Badlands alongside Queen La and Scar.

Like with China, I’d imagine they frequently get into military and violent conflict with the “inland” Islanders, fighting with them for scraps and disrupting Maleficent’s operations to secure necessary supplies and luxuries, much like the “tributes” from China from before, only much more desperate.

In line with this, the Xiongnu VKs aren’t really part of the culture, seen as outsiders, troublemakers, and enemies that you should never consider working with—if Shan Yu’s Descendant is portrayed as also going to Dragon Hall rather than coming over to raise hell every once in a while, I’m assuming it’s a “know your enemy” sort of deal rather than them “willingly being indoctrinated by your petty immortal empress.”

Both the adults and the kids culture likely relies on these key tenements.

Unbreakable In-Group Loyalty, “the Horde above all else,” with them refusing to be abusive or cruel to each other unless someone truly gets out of line

Militaristic Society, based on a strict hierarchy that decides who controls how many soldiers, who organizes the raids, and who gets to parcel out the spoils of war and who gets to enjoy the “tributes” they extract from Maleficent or the other residents

Shan Yu and his descendants being at the top of this hierarchy, by virtue of infamy and “still having it” when it comes to fending off challengers

“Taker” Mentality, in that they don’t even bother to set up any form of agriculture or permanent living like their ancestors, living true to their nomadic past by shuffling around the Isle and raiding what they need from Maleficent

Strong Emphasis On Military Training And Martial Prowess, though instead of horseback archery, it’s now guerilla tactics, using stealth, shock, and the element of surprise to catch their enemies unaware, or pilfer all of the enemies goods without them ever noticing you’re there

Deity-like Worship To Horses And The “Great Lands Of Old,” a myth they propagate about a bountiful land of pastures where they were free to ride and live, until the “Conquerors” (the Chinese) came, greedily took everything from themselves, forced the Xiongnu to attack them out of desperation, and had the gall to call them the cruel, heartless barbarians and separate them from their ancestral lands forever, trapping them in a hellhole where they would be trapped behind a barrier, forever forced to longingly look at it, but never able to return

Please note that the above is just the Xiongnu belief, and could be actual history from the perspective of the “losing” side, propaganda, or a mix of both, as serves their needs to spur and combine their people towards one common enemy.

Should you, or anyone else wish to play a VK that is either Shan Yu’s descendant (male, female, or non-binary, it doesn’t matter as they’re still of Shan Yu’s blood and sexist ideals falter in the face of need and the lack of infrastructure to support it), or a member of their “Horde,” here’s some behaviours, scenarios, and beliefs you may find useful and a springboard for your ideas:

Anti-Establishment Beliefs, thinking the current state of Auradon like one “giant, gold-plated and gem-encrusted toilet your ‘glorious leader’ sits on like it’s actually a throne,” being disgusted with the laws, rules of civility, and systemic means of oppressing the people and “keeping them in place,” along with a strong desire to rebel, establish their own “free” society, possibly coordinating with the Sidekick League and other outcasts like the Merry Men and Maidens

Strong Anti-Consumer Culture Bent, mostly because I headcanon China as a giant producer and consumer of goods, and they see that the rampant “buy, buy, buy” for more convenience, comfort, and speed has made the Auradonian people “fat, useless, and lazy”

Frequent Run-Ins With the Royal Guard, for raising trouble, stealing without remorse, or intentionally provoking them into combat to test their skills. Because the Guard has spent 20 years without any real fights or combat, and the veterans of actual war are retired or in desk jobs for ageing, the Guard fails, and fails BADLY in the face of the Xiongnu VKs—oftentimes, it takes one hit to down them and they’re disgusted that they don’t even try to get back up

Tourney and Other Sports Emphasis, their way of legally engaging with “war” with the AKs without getting into trouble, treating the trophies like conquests, and abusing the system to gain privilege, legitimacy, and numbers with their new “horde.” I wouldn’t be surprised if they make up a new Xiongnu people united by love of sports, and get in bloody conflict with the Tourney fans from Greece, Sparta especially.

Love Of Horses And The Outdoors, being the ones able to tame and ride the “can’t tame ‘em, can’t ride ‘em” steeds in the stables of Auradon, fond of exploring the forests of Sherwood, the hills of Dunbroch, and the mountains of Arendelle, and generally finding careers as either environmental preservationists, forest rangers, shepherds, or a new breed of highwaymen and raiders making hell for Auradon at large

Alienation And Constant Conflict With The Regular VKs, such as the Rotten Four, the Second Wavers (Freddie, CJ, Zevon, Uma, Gil, Harry, and the rest of the Pirate Crew), and any Third-Onwards Wavers you can think of. These kids were not friends nor even frenemies on the Isle, have probably gotten into some very unfriendly disagreements, and still see each other as competition, what stands between them and getting to eat today or starve, bruised and battered physically and emotionally.

If you have more questions, or you feel this was unsatisfactory, please feel free to ask.