#and then mushing it together into a fantasy setting and adding fun details

[woodblxssomcrowned]

*thinking about Royal fantasy au*

*leads into thinking about european medieval and renaissance elements*

*leads into thinking about European medieval and renaissance fashion and jewellery*

*VIBRATES WITH EXCITEMENT*

[illegiblewords]

Right now I am honestly tired as heck just out of work but I think I am figuring out a writing thing so gonna type that here.

I’m basically in the kind of :I position rn where besides on and offline responsibilities and social stuff I have:

1) A novel I am supposed to be working on through July, which is properly outlined and I feel pretty good about.

2) A fun D&D campaign that I’m :> over.

3) A new idea that hit me in the head like a sack of bricks like a day or two ago.

#3, literally it’s the second time in my life that kind of situation has happened. I don’t normally have ideas where the concept just sort of gets vomited out in a weird detailed state. But after a late af night at work apparently that was what had to happen and I ended up scribbling notes for that for like five hours into some stupid time at night/morning.

Honestly, prob some part of me had been low key preparing for that to happen. I’ve been toying with the idea of doing a thing involving multiple fantasy races (main novel isn’t about that) and then when I hit D&D that basically unclogged a bunch of concepts that had previously been mushing together and they sort of exploded out in a much more articulate way than originally planned. I can see pieces of what I’d been vaguely considering before floating around.

And now I have to deal with it. :[

One of the parts I’ve been very D: about though is cast.

Let me tell you dudes, I actually talked to a dear friend who is a pro editor about writing and she gave me some advice I try to keep in mind. That advice was to not make such ungodly huge casts.

This isn’t because I can’t make solid characters with huge casts or stories can’t be told with huge casts. It’s because I’m a goddamn crazy person and whenever I try to set up a story I end up doing horrifyingly detailed levels of worldbuilding and literally with notes of like eight generations of personal ancestry and all the social circles of every single character and then when you have casts of like 60 people that goes into the sphere of hundreds of pages of OUTLINING and it’s hard to get started. Not even fucking exaggerating. My main novel I basically have two points of view (so I’d list main cast is like two people) and less than ten significant cast members because I know I’m like this and I deliberately looked at myself in the mirror and was like NO URBAN YOU NEED TO STOP.

This novel, the original main cast size I had in mind was going to be like nine. As in, the people traveling together having an adventure was going to be be nine. I would still have had to do all the “npc” types and make backstories and motives for their asses.

I realized at some point this was excessive and did that whole look-yourself-in-the-mirror thing and went DO YOU REALLY NEED A MAIN CAST OF NINE URBAN THAT SEEMS PRETTY EXCESSIVE, and so then proceeded to look at my cast and be like “DEFEND WHY THIS PERSON NEEDS TO EXIST AND IF YOU CANNOT THEN FUCK THEM”.

Basically, self-amputation is an important part of writing my friends. It really is.

So step one, there were a series of stern conversations with myself that amounted to “DO YOU REALLY NEED A SUBTERRANEAN HALF-ELF BARD URBAN?” “Well I mean I don’t know it might raise neat questions and I have so many guys in the cast and I’d like to balance things–” “DO YOU REALLY NEED A SUBTERRANEAN HALF-ELF BARD URBAN?” “… No, not really…” “SAY HASTA LA VISTA BABY” Then rinse and repeat with a bunch of other characters.

For the record, I try to do this same process when I go shopping too. It is not always successful but I do use it. In this case I was fortunate and I succeeded in whittling the main cast down to six members, which is still big but not obscenely big.

When I was younger, I used to use tv tropes as a guide to try and help myself figure things out not going to lie. As an older and more experienced writer lady I know that tv tropes does a lot of focusing on the superficial bits of writing but not so much the reasons for those superficial bits that actually let you do important structural work. Still, I did have a look back at cast calculus to see what those were in case it gave me an idea of how to approach the issue of making dynamics and fleshing out characters and doing the pacing with a situation like this.

The answer wasn’t there. But it did help me get my fucking head together, so credit where it is due.

TV tropes talks about five man band a lot, which is basically a structure of leader, person to direct foil the leader, someone intellectual in the group, someone physical in the group, and mediator of the group. It’s not actually said that nicely, they have some admin there being a royal turd focusing on “wah the mediator has to be a gurl” instead of character dynamics. Annoying and useless for storytellers but w/e. They also talk about how sometimes you get a sixth person tacked on and usually that person is an edgelord of some kind who reforms.

Superficial stuff, not that useful. But some person made a note that made me stop and just explained the whole goddamn thing for me clearly.

The sixth person usually acts as a second foil to the leader.

Huh.

So basically, shit’s like this. I’m pretty sure I heard at some point that humans are only really able of fully comprehending numbers up to 3 at a time. It’s not that you don’t know there are bigger numbers. But like picture a bunch of dots or something, they usually break into 1′s, 2′s, or 3′s. If you imagine four it’s like 2+2 or 1+3. If you imagine five it’s like 2+3 or 1+2+2 or something. Grain of salt me on this I am not a mathematician or a scientist, but I do remember hearing this is a thing.

If you look at the way cast calculus tries to break shit down on the tv tropes website, they follow this more or less. Duos you have person A and person B contrasting their qualities, they end up bouncing off each other and creating a balance. Trios you have person A and person B with that structure but then person C is also there and is a kind of mediator role. Id (impulsive and a bit selfish)/ego (aware of reality)/superego (morality or intellect) with ego as mediator if you wanna go old psych. With groups of five, the setup is leader/right hand (contrast), then mind/body (another form of contrast, doesn’t strictly need to be that probably but it is one), then mediator.

2+2+1, or you can attach the mediator to either group of two and have 3+2.

Huuuuuuh.

So six, though. What the fuck are you supposed to do with six?

3+3 my dudes, and 2+2+2. AND, if you aren’t gonna be lazy and shallow and just blindly mimic what people have done before without understanding it (disclaimer: I have in fact been lazy and shallow and blindly mimicked what people have done before without understanding it many, many times) you gotta be able to switch the party members in each subdivision and explain where they stand with the dynamic so you don’t have any redundant bits or hiccups and all the relationships read distinct.

So basically:

Character A

Character B

Character C

Character D

Character E

Character F

You gotta be able to explain:

ABC, DEF, AB, CD, EF first. Then ABD, CEF, AD, BE, CF, and so on.

Reasons larger casts get harder, you have more shit you have to figure out with fucking math. Cut corners at this and the risk of you having two characters who are basically the same person and have a boring nonsense dynamic you don’t know what to say about goes up.

But Urban (you say as my levels of insane analytical bullshit continue to climb), haven’t people figured this shit already??? A-Archetypes happened yeah, so theoretically some older and more mathematically/instinctively gifted storytellers in the past figured some shit out. Wasn’t there a thing about the sixth person being some kind of douchecanoe edgelord? Why not just go with that and pray it sticks?

See I figured that trick out my dudes. I figured it right out. The douchecanoe is a trick. Secretly, that douchecanoe has a hole and that hole is flooded with more math.

Why do you need a douchecanoe? Well, we said earlier–usually they show up and turn out to be a second foil to the leader. So you got leader, foil A, foil B. One is gonna be mediator (probably the leader) and then each of the others will be a pole of some kind. Id, ego, superego is one way of putting it but so is idk idealist, realist, cynic. You can go a lot of routes with this. For mine I have ends justify the means, ends never justify means, and maybe both sometimes depending on the situation. It’s all foiling. And depending on who you have in which position you will have greater or lesser levels of contrast or parallel going on. I could have ABC and DEF be id, ego, superego respectively but then I try ABD and in that setup D is ego/mediator compared to A and B or something.

Basically, you have a team who is mostly pretty heroic overall, the person jumping in being either a moral extremist in some ways or being extra impulsive about what they want is a way to increase the range of morality on the whole and offer more foiling opportunities. I'd like to say though that isn't the only way to do it. If you have an asshole teammate in a group of five and then send in a sixth person, that sixth person could stand out for being really decent too. It's basically about generating a big moral contrast, especially between the leader and their direct foil.

But what about shipping? Opposites attract is one thing but isn’t birds of a feather flock together also a thing? And isn't shipping is just another form of character dynamic? What the hell does that do to all this horrible math? The thing is, opposites attract and birds of a feather flock together always, by nature, have to be trends. Not absolutes. Otherwise you get selfcest or two people with nothing to bond or relate over at all. Practically aliens. Any contrast you create between characters must also parallel in some other way and vice versatile. And ye both still work. It's good general policy to always have some level of foiling AND some level of paralleling between each pair of cast members that is distinct.

Also, as a bonus--why do people think casts of four are tricky? Basically when you are doing groups of four every single character has to be equally foiled and paralleled by every other character in some way. The balance of similarity and difference is real precise and can be a little tricky to wing.

But yeah, seven and higher cast numbers scare the hell out of me especially since they don't break evenly into subgroups within human comprehension limits. I think it's still doable but Jesus.