#and then just name them really similarly to the champions in botw.....

[amiharana]

Finally! Someone who thinks it wouldn't be a narrative mistake to bring back the champions!!

I've always seen people say that bringing them back takes away from the tragedy of their deaths, but we never got to know them enough for that to feel like a proper tragedy.

Like, they gave us one of the coolest concepts for a Zelda game story wise (Link having an actual team who are supposed to fight alongside him against Ganon instad of just people helping him along the way) and they kill them off before the game starts???

Bringing them back not only helps us to know them better but can actually improve on the tragedy thing. All of the champions have been dead for 100 years, a lot of stuff has changed and seeing their reactions to that change would be more interesting than them staying dead.

welcome to the party anon!!! i'm just selfish and i want the champions back!!!

honestly, the way the champions' presence was handled in botw in itself is a narrative mistake lol. if the point was teach link about loss and sacrifice, nintendo sure did a great job of showcasing that by. giving us absolutely nothing about the champions' importance in their respective societies. /s

ok that's a lie, i think they showed that profound impact of loss and sacrifice at least somewhat well with mipha and the zoras actually. since the zora live a long time, plenty of them are still alive from the time of the calamity such as muzu, who still held a lot of resentment and blame towards link for mipha's death, or sidon, who is always looking at mipha's statue when you interact with him at the zora's domain. the cutscene after you defeat waterblight, talk to mipha's spirit, and then position ruta to point at the castle has got to be one of the most heart-wrenching moments in the entire game. LIKE HELLOOOOO THIS PART RIGHT HERE MAKES ME FUCKING BAWL MY EYES OUT 😭😭😭 so even though we only get to know mipha for a short period of time, we could at least see and feel the effect of her death in her people and how she felt the effect her death on her people. this is a good example of portraying loss and sacrifice, for me at least.

but i can't say the same for the other champions, they don't seem to be as wrecked about their champion as the zora do. and that probably has to do with the fact that the other races don't live as long as the zora, so unlike them, the characters of other races that you interact with weren't there when their champions died. girl like kaneli probably wasn't even born yet when revali got his ass kicked ☝️😒 so for the other races of hyrule, all they get are legends and stories of these really cool people who died a hundred years prior. i know you guys aren't crying ur asses off everyday about errrr.. president theodore roosevelt dying a hundred years ago! you didn't know him like that, get out of your parasocial relationship with him!!! so in that regard, i understand the way that nintendo chose to handle the relationship between the other champions and the descendents of their people.

but ur so incredibly true for that anon. the zelda team chose to break so many traditional conventions in botw, and the addition of a group of chosen champions to pilot these technological marvels of mechanisms to fight an evil so intense that the hero actually needs that assistance for even a sliver of success has so much potential. i wish we got to know the champions of 10,000 years ago and the champions of 100 years ago. if i really got to know and love them, i would probably understand what it would be like to lose them and feel it.

[c-aureus]

How I think Hyrule would respond to Zelda's return, after the end of BotW.

Wall of text incoming.

TL;DR: I think they'd be very cruel.

Please remember that these are all only my interpretations and opinions, and should be treated as such.

A while ago, I made a post saying that I do not believe that Zelda or Link should be in any way 'happy' after the end of BotW. Imo, they've both lost too much for that, and I worry that the sequel will not give this grief or loss the focus it deserves.

Now, I plan to expand on that, by explaining my interpretation for how i believe Hyrule would respond to her after her return, which would only further compound their misery.

Now, I'd like to preface this by saying that I actually like BotW Zelda as a character a lot, and that I'm very sympathetic to her.

However... well.

The consequences of her failure are simply too big to ignore imo.

Firstly, as a general overview: Zelda was the ONLY person capable of stopping Ganon. Without her Divine sealing power, there was simply no way for Hyrule to survive Ganon's assault, no matter the preparations, or skill of the warriors. The best example of this is the Champions and Divine Beasts. They were all the best of the absolute best, and yet none of them were able to survive Ganon's assault, simply because they were not Divinely favoured to succeed, the way that Link and Zelda were. Even despite their incredible skill, prowess and dedication. There are other examples too, notably the fall of Hyrule's military outposts, and the annihilation of central Hyrule's civilisation and infrastructure.

To put it simply, with Zelda's power, they won. Without it, all of the preparations were for naught, and everyone would die. Zelda herself even says as much in a cutscene in AoC.

(Also, as a side note, in all of those levels in AoC where you relieve the Akkala Fortress, Great Plateau, and Hateno fort, remember that in BotW, they all fell, and the soldiers would have been slaughtered.)

So, in light of that...

The fact that Zelda only unlocked her power after it was already too late means that I don't believe that the shattered remnants of Hyrule's civilisation would be kind or sympathetic to her.

Link and Zelda were literally born by divine influence to protect Hyrule from Ganon. And, well...

Again, my point comes down to the fact that Zelda only unlocked her power after it was too late for the Champions, Link, and thousands of other Hyruleans who had either already been killed, or who would later die in the aftermath.

Now, again, I'm HIGHLY sympathetic to Zelda here. Indeed, she had lived her entire life with this Sword of Damocles hanging over her.

However. The sword fell.

And, crucially, Zelda avoided it, whilst it went on to kill literally thousands of others. They all died for Zelda's failure, whilst she herself survived.

Furthermore, those 'lucky' ones who did survive had to live in BotW Hyrule, which, if I'm being honest, is an absolute wasteland. So, so much was lost in the Calamity, the land was overrun by monsters, and even the tiny remaining pockets of civilisation suffer. I could go on for hours about how infrastructure, agriculture and trade were all annihilated, but I'll try to refrain for brevity's sake.

The long and short of it is that Hyrule is fucked.

I think my worry about this comes from BotW's post credit scene where Zelda tells Link that she thinks that if everyone works together, they can rebuild, and make Hyrule better than it was before.

And, this line really annoyed me. Because, quite simply, Hyrule has simply lost too much to rebuild. Infrastructure, agriculture, trade, population... Hyrule would be reeling for generations after Link and Zelda's death. To expect any kind of quick recovery is just... foolish beyond words.

(Another side note: I'm extremely grateful to AoC showing just how developed Hyrule is pre-Calamity. It helps give scale and scope to the devastation in BotW even more.)

So, Zelda's naive optimism here annoyed me. However, far more than that, there is another issue that this overlooks:

Namely, I cannot fathom why anyone in Hyrule would want to follow her, or would accept her as their sovereign.

Now, this is going to get extremely cruel to Zelda, and that saddens me, because I like her. This is just what I think the realistic response would be to her, given the circumstances, because people are cruel and like easy targets of blame. There are many examples of this kind of blaming behaviour in history, if anyone wants to look, lol. So apologies in advance:

BotW tells us through the memories that Zelda's reputation is AWFUL Pre-Calamity. Rhoam says that the people call her 'Heir to a Kingdom of Nothing' etc.

Now, perhaps poor parenting aside, this gives more context. Do you really believe that the 'lucky' few survivors of Central Hyrule would be kind, given that Zelda fulfilled their terrible expectations in the WORST possible manner?

No. I believe that that generation, which already disliked her, would spend the rest of their lives cursing her failure, and the death and destruction that came as a consequence. And, they would pass that down to their children and grandchildren.

This comes to another point: Zelda is (for the most part) out of living memory. The only thing Hyrule knows of her is her failure to prevent the land from being devastated. Furthermore, the 4 tribes of Hyrule might even have a decent cause to blame her for the deaths of the Champions.

(Cause and effect are tricky, but well... people are irrational. Maybe if Zelda had unlocked her power straight away, the Champions still would have died. However, perhaps they could have held on long enough for Link and Zelda to force Ganon to recall his Blights to protect himself, as he does in BotW if you attack him without liberating the Divine Beasts. Who is to say? The point is, people get hung up on these kind of 'what ifs', as I am doing right now, lol.)

I'd like to make a special mention of the Zora here, who not only have Zelda (and all of her failures and inadequacies) in living memory, but are also xenophobic towards Hylians.

We see how they blame Link in BotW, after all. I think that they would feel similarly to Zelda, who is 'technically' more deserving of blame.

From a Zora-centric perspective, Zelda may as well have stolen Mipha from them, to make her take the fall for Zelda's failures. She literally set Mipha up to die, she sacrificed Mipha on the altar of her own survival, etc.

To elaborate: Princess Zelda personally requested Mipha, the beloved Crown Princess of the Zora, to become Champion. Despite Dorephan's hesitance, he allows it. Then, Zelda fails her, and Mipha dies in the Calamity that Zelda failed to prevent, but also that Zelda manages to survive.

Like... as harsh, cruel, and unfair as this is to poor Zelda... do you think that the Domain, which is STILL mourning Mipha a century later, would just... wave that away?

Now... how much Zelda is truly to blame for the Calamity is another matter, one that I will explore in a post hopefully shorter than this one. Suffice to say, I have many opinions, and some of the conclusions are perhaps unkind to her, which only further justifies my interpretations of Hyrule's blame, and Zelda's guilt and grief.

The point is that... Hyrule would see an easy target to dump their grief on. And I I don't believe they would just let it go.

Furthermore, Zelda has no political influence anymore. She can't force anyone to listen to her, or obey her commands, since all of that was destroyed in the Calamity. Moreover, with Zelda's reputation being that of colossal failure, I doubt that anyone in Hyrule would wish to submit to her, to give her the chance to fuck everything up again.

God. I feel really horrible typing all of this out, lol. And yet, I genuinely believe that this would be the reaction to her. So, if in the sequel, everything is being rebuilt and everyone is totally happy with Zelda, well...

I'm gonna be very upset. Because, in my opinion, if all of Hyrule just forgave Zelda's failures, and ignored their disastrous consequences, that would be extremely unrealistic.

As much as this headcanon hurts, and would hurt me to see, I'd be very vindicated by it, lol.

If anyone has any opinions, feel free to let me know.

Just please keep everything civil lol. This is only a random person on the internet's opinion.

[goodmorningawfulbye]

PLEASE elaborate on that divine beast tsviet au that sounds sick af

this is wordy and a little stream-of-consciousness-y, but I can try to explain anything that's confusing; please enjoy my Thinks(TM)

Spoilers for Dirge of Cerberus and Breath of the Wild, I suppose XD

also @garlemald

like all my best (/hj) ideas, this one is born of taking a thing I like and mixing it like paint into something else I like, except this time Square Enix did it, not me

(when I said I wanted a marriage of Square Enix and Nintendo, this wasn't what I meant)

so basically, Nero gets Vah Medoh *pauses to be pelted with tomatoes* BUT actually he and Weiss can pilot it together, because they're both very strong fighters, Weiss has his theming of perfection, and Nero is highly skilled in a fighting style that's unique to him and he has wings

Rito Confidence, Nero the Sable and Weiss the Immaculate

(no hold on, this actually does make sense, I swear. so like, the colored Tsviets have similar traits to the Champions. That is, those are the things that the Tsviets are strongest in, and those strengths are what, in pretty much every case, damned the Hylian Champions. So they're everyone I'm talking about's strength and weakness or flaw. Their defining trait is the least confusing way to describe it, actually, but it works!! parallels!! :D)

Azul gets Vah Rudania because of his physical strength. Daruk uses it for protecting others, Azul uses it to his advantage rather than others' but there's also sort of an internal set of rules, a code of honor there.

Goron Vigilance, Azul the Cerulean

Rosso gets Vah Naboris because of her passion for fighting, and her speedy maneuvers and tactics, and her relentless drive. The "no one will ever stand above me" scene is the signal of her indomitable spirit that seals it for me. If only she could summon lightning. (also they might look good in each other's outfits)

Gerudo Spirit, Rosso the Crimson

Shelke gets Vah Ruta and that conclusion for me rests solely on Shelke's knowledge that people are depending on her, so she renders service with the capabilities she has, and in that way, aids the hero to achieve his goal. There are also more similarities between her and Mipha-- namely, her sibling that also plays a role, and a special relationship with The Hero (in case it needs to be said, not a romantic one for Shelke)

(Mipha didn't get a cool "Zora ____" that I can give Shelke :[ )

Now, they don't need to actually be a bird, a lizard, a camel, and an elephant, and the names of the Divine Beasts in BOTW are of course references to the populations and history of Hyrule so probably they would need more FFVII-appropriate names and shapes (Vah Medoh as a chocobo is cute but not likely to be accurate, unfortunately)

Story stuff: I'd like to think that in a story setting, it could play similarly to how the Divine Beasts do in Breath of the Wild, so that even Nero and Weiss could help to take down Hojo instead of That, but the beasts turning against the hero even after the Hojo Blight is removed is also an interesting dark variant that could be explored!

But it would be good that same as Link helped the Hylian Champions find rest after all that, that the same could be done for the Tsviets. I know what we get of their backstories is a lot tragic but in that way, I would really like to think this Au would be the version of the story where the future can be better, even though depending on how close you stick to BOTW canon, :/

I think I would prefer them imprisoned by the Hojo Blight in this AU, so they can be freed and brought back to Midgar ("Hyrule") to live the lives they lost, both as Tsviets and in the time they lost trapped in their beasts.

Mostly I just saw the similarities in character traits and how they played out and got really salty about casting choices and went "hey you could make a religion out of this!"

Side note OH my GOD Vincent as Link. the coffin in the Shinra Mansion as his resurrection bed (wait that's canon)

this works too well.

hope you enjoyed reading this long ramble!!