#and tails uses that specific wording in that scene because sonic implied before that the perfect family has those things

[sonknuxadow]

idk if this is an unpopular opinion among unbreakable bond enjoyers but i honestly dont think sonic raised tails in the literal sense of the word. i mean yeah theres no parents in the picture here so sonic is probably the closest thing to a caretaker figure that tails has but even then i dont think sonic himself ever really saw it that way he probably thought they were just hanging out

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

I know this may sound crazy but remember how in No Way Out, Sonic told Nine that he still considered him to be a friend while getting down on one knee and Nine calmed down? Later in Nine’s Lives, Nine says “Typical” when seeing Sonic run to the others and accused Sonic of betraying him when Sonic called the others his friends.

Nine was sort of acting like Sonic proposed to him and then cheated on him by being friends with the others.

Okay so first of all, I don't think you're crazy. During S3 there's actually plenty of evidence that Nine is jealous, both of the Tails variants and Sonic considering everyone else his friends.

One example that presents his specific kind of jealousy is during Episode 2 of Season 3, when Nine first appears to Sonic in New Yoke.

"Everything is collapsing... This is terrible!"

"Is it? That seems odd coming from you. As far as I can tell you only care about your own home."

Essentially what I'm getting at is this. I do believe that pre betrayal, Nine admittedly considered Sonic to be the most important person to him, and thought Sonic may have felt the same way. And the "betrayal" at the end of S2 hurt Nine very deeply. He had this image of Sonic in his head that was shattered by the finale, so he sort of instinctively switches to thinking the worst about Sonic because he can't trust that anything he thought before wasn't a lie. This is one of the reasons that he can't fathom Sonic caring about shatterspaces other than his own home.

But it's not just that he can't fathom it, it's that due to this deep hurt, Nine cannot allow himself to believe it.

Because if Sonic genuinely cares about the shatterverse as a whole, if he genuinely cares about saving all of these people, then to Nine, what made him the exception?

Sure, we the audience can see Sonic’s journey in Prime. We can see that by the end of S2, Sonic wanted to keep the shatterverse safe just as much as he wanted to bring back Green Hill. He wanted everyone to be alive and happy. But from Nine's pov here, he's just learned that Sonic lied to him, spoke honeyed words and manipulated him just to get to the prism. None of that is true, but he doesn't feel like Sonic actually cares for him or wants him. So at this point, for Sonic to put saving all of these people over saving his own home or genuinely worrying about their home makes Nine feel like the exception or that his feelings about Sonic must be wrong. Either one of those ideas he'd understandably like to avoid (because one means that Sonic is genuine with everyone except for him, and the other would mean to him that his feeling of betrayal and hurt feelings post S2 finale are misplaced and not allowed to be had, though he feels justified feeling hurt)

And that scene in S3 E3 No Escape is actually another big exemplifier of Nine's brand of jealousy and just how hurt he is.

"Don't worry. Beneath the surface, my new friends are far simpler than the flawed creatures you knew and loved. And all the more loyal for it."

Starting out strong, Nine takes a not so subtle shot at Sonic's friends while taking subtler shot at Sonic's loyalty, since Sonic had been his first and only friend.

"Ever wonder where we'd be if things had gone differently between us?"

"...Not anymore."

"I do. All the time."

"Not anymore." Implying that post the S2 finale he really had dwelled (at least for a time) on thoughts of how things could have been different. How he wished things could have gone differently.

And Nine gets visibly angry/frustrated when Sonic confesses he's always thinking about how things could have been different. Perhaps because it feels like a slap to the face, or feels hard to believe.

"Tch. You had your chance."

"...Right back at ya, bud."

And then, despite his anger, despite how he's been trying to get Sonic all along so he can drain his energy and save his home, Nine ignores Sonic's "should we get this over with". He puts on another one of those faces, similar to earlier when Sonic arrived and Nine talked about his "new friends". Perhaps to cover up exactly the way he's feeling in this moment with a veneer of superiority (he always did something similar when talking up Sonic to the Chaos Council).

"You know...after all this time...I think I finally understand you, Sonic."

...

"You wanna save everyone. Friends. Foes. Total strangers! You say it's because you're a hero and that's what heroes do, but deep down... After what you did—destroying your own home—it's the only way you can ever live with yourself. Even if that means you won't live at all."

And while I think Nine isn't incorrect—that there is a part of Prime!Sonic who's been acting out of selfishness, caring more about feeling like a good person than actually being one—these are still words from someone who feels betrayed by Sonic. I think there's a level to which Nine is seeing a part of Sonic no one else did, and also to a level which Nine is trying to recontextualize Sonic's more heroic/selfless seeming actions so he can reconcile them with how he feels about Sonic and sees him at this moment. In other words, while he's seeing a facet of Sonic he didn't see before, this is not all encompassing of who Prime Sonic is. It's just that perhaps by believing that Sonic's every seemingly selfless action is disingenuine, that all those nice words and intent to save people is just so Sonic can feel good rather that actually caring about anyone, then Nine doesn’t have to feel like the exception. Then he can see Sonic as someone who is pretending to care about all of this, and Sonic's other friends as fools who don't see what he (Nine) has seen.

But as I said, it's more complicated than that. Perhaps Nine is seeing a facet of Sonic that other people don't see or don't want to see, but Prime!Sonic is multifaceted. Perhaps he does want to hurry up and sacrifice himself in this scene because then he can finally feel like he's atoned for what he's done and he's absolved of/paid for his crimes, but that also doesn't mean he doesn't genuinely care about the lives of people in the shatterverse.

"If I don't make it, and you do, how do I know you'll keep your promise."

"Don't worry. Your 'friends' are safe. Once I have your energy, I can restore everything. They can have their silly lives in their silly spaces, as long as they leave me alone."

"Fair enough."

...

"And for what it's worth...I wouldda done the same for you."

"Don't lie to me..."

"I'm not–"

"DON'T!"

"Think whatever you want, but it's true. Even after everything you've done, everything we've been through. Together. Against each other. You're still my friend, Nine."

I really couldn't express more just how hurt Nine feels. That he doesn't believe Sonic would give anything up for him, even if he were to accept that Sonic would do that for everyone else. When he tells Sonic not to lie to him, frustrated, angry, voice wavering, I think it's because he can't take this again. If Sonic is lying just to manipulate him, if this isn't genuine, if he's just using him again, he can't take it again.

This is an incredibly intimate scene. With Sonic, standing face to face to Nine, inside Nine's safe space, his home that no one else has been into, behind the physical representation of the walls surrounding Nine's heart post betrayal, this is his first time all season really being allowed to speak to Nine directly. Here there's no one to perform to aside from each other.

But you can see that despite everything, Sonic still reaches Nine in this scene. It's not easy, but he reaches Nine's heart, leading Nine to start to believe in him again.

And that's why it's a pity the other variants show up when they do, using Sonic to breach Nine's walls. With the way Nine reacts after this happens, Sonic may as well have made Nine believe in that image of him again. Sonic may as well have made Nine believe that Sonic does care about him, that he'd do anything for him (or, at least, would give his life for him like he would for the others if it meant they could live), only to be the trojan horse that allowed the enemy™ to breach his safe space. The pretty lie.

At the beginning of S3 E4 Nine's Lives, Nine says "Predictable" when Sonic runs over to his friends. And, as anon mentioned, Nine says that Sonic has betrayed him for the last time, calling the deal off.

I wouldn't necessarily say here that Nine feels as if Sonic had cheated on him so to speak, but I would say that even if Nine doesn't see Sonic as a willing "trojan horse" here, Nine still feels like a fool for "falling for it again", for believing in Sonic. I think it's enough betrayal to Nine that Sonic would convince him that he cares about him and wants him to have a future too, only to then side with a bunch of people who want to beat Nine down and who would not let Nine be happy if Nine surrendered to them (from Nine's pov at least).

So in short, anon, I think you are seeing Nine's jealousy here. Even if he also has to believe Sonic is secretly fooling the others, to him this is a scene where Sonic is not only choosing them over him, but another example of Sonic (from Nine's pov) proving that he's a liar who doesn't care for Nine or his future/safety at all.

[autisticshadowthehedgehog]

Filmverse!Knuckles is gonna be Tikal’s Little Brother and if he’s not I’m suing Sega

[ID: Two images; one of clipart of Knuckles the Echidna beside a poster for Sonic the Hedgehog (2020), and another from Sonic X of Knuckles and Tikal together while Tikal is injured. End ID.] 

Thankfully, this might be shorter than my last couple theory posts but unfortunately I am possibly more passionate about it because this could conceivably happen and if it doesn’t I don’t know what I’m gonna do. 

So in this theory, I will endeavor to prove these points:

Knuckles will very soon be present in the filmverse. 

In the Filmverse, Pachacamac (and by extention, Tikal) are no longer four-thousand years gone, but exist at the same time as Sonic.

Knuckles is going to be in this clan not just as any member, but as Tikal’s brother. 

We’re going off the rails and I’m going to tie this all in to the Chaos Emerald Filmverse theory. 

Who’s ready to go? Everything under the cut. 

1. Knuckles is Coming #2k22

[ID: Another edited photo, placing clipart of Knuckles beside a promotional photo for Sonic the Hedgehog (2020). End ID.] 

This will probably be a short section but... there’s no way Knuckles won’t be in the filmverse very soon. Likely, in the second fucking movie. 

Let’s start with the basics: Knuckles was originally going to be in the first movie, but was cut in order to better establish the Sonic vs Robotnik rivalry. Director Jeff Fowler made the following statement: 

“For this first film, we really were just looking at the 1991 game and just see where it all started and keep it simple…Just really try to nail Sonic and Robotnik and just set up their rivalry because you don’t…I mean, I love…There’s a lot of great characters in Sonic universe, but it’s the most important thing is just to get Sonic set up and just tell a little bit of an origin story with him, and just do it in a way that really makes everyone fall in love with him as a character and just be rooting for more.

And then, if all that goes well, then we can kind of open it up and bring in some of these other characters that fans know and love. And yeah, I mean, no one’s more excited than me to have that opportunity.”

[x]

As well as this, co-writer for the film, Josh Miller, has stated he really wants to bring in Knux. 

“I will only hint that we wanna bring in some of the other characters from the games. But, really, it’s all about Knuckles’ love.” [x]

Second, voice actors have, reportedly, already been considered for Knuckles’s voice, including Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson. [x, x]

And third, Mushroom Hill. 

[ID: Two photos; one of the Mushroom Planet from Sonic the Hedgehog (2020). The second is a screenshot from Sonic & Knuckles, where Knuckles is running through Mushroom Hill. Both photos feature gigantic mushrooms resembling trees and an orange tint. End iD.]

The “Mushroom Planet” is a direct reference to the first level of Sonic & Knuckles. The first level of.... the game with Knuckles’s name in it. 

So, you wanna hear something funny? What’s the first thing Knuckles does in the game timeline? 

[ID: Screenshot from Sonic & Knuckles. Sonic is standing on the left side of the screen, beneath a mural of something holding an emerald towards something that looks like SuperSonic. On the right side of the screen is Knuckles, ready to fight Sonic. End ID.]

Well... Robotnik shows up, convinces him that Sonic and Tails are gonna try to steal his emerald, and sends him off to fight them. 

And where’s Robotnik at the end of the 2020 film?

[ID: Robotnik on the Mushroom Planet in Sonic the Hedgehog (2020). End ID.]

While the Mushroom Planet may not be where Angel Island is in filmverse, the direct reference would definitely generate fan attention. And it implies that Robotnik, wherever he is or is going, is headed towards Knuckles. And with the game inciting incident of Robotnik having Knuckles fight Sonic for him... well, wouldn’t that be a wild introduction? Especially for casual fans who don’t have Sonic Lore memorized and may not know that Knuckles was originally an antagonist/rival to Sonic. 

Oh, and there’s one more piece of evidence that Knuckles is gonna show up... the fact that his tribe already has. 

And among them, by the way, are Pachacamac and Tikal. 

2. Pachacamac and Tikal are no longer 4000 years old

So. Let’s talk about the opening scene of Sonic the Hedgehog (2020). As many of you have probably noticed, Sonic and Longclaw are attacked not just by any masked intruders, but by... the Knuckles Clan of Echidnas. 

And we’re sure they’re not any other clan, because they have the trademark Knuckled Gloves. 

[ID: Multiple gifs of the echidnas attempt to attack Longclaw and Baby Sonic. They are dressed in vaguely tribal wear, and have gloves featuring pointed knuckles, signifying them as the Knuckles Clan. End ID.] 

Now, that’s not evidence of Pachacamac/Tikal itself; we know the Knuckles Clan lasted at least long enough to spawn our Knuckles. What is evidence, however, is in the specific Echidna who shot Longclaw. 

[ID: Gif of the Echidna who shot Longclaw, isolated in the frame. End ID.] 

Look familiar?

[ID: The echdina who shot Longclaw in the 2020 film next to a render of Pachacamac. The mystery echidna’s helmet has the same forehead markings as Pachacamac, along with a design that looks like his mustache. End ID.]

And fun fact: this isn’t me reaching for once. This was confirmed by Tyson Hesse, film character designer and savior of Sonic, on his twitter. 

[ID: Tweet from Tyson Hesse, showing the pictures of the Echidna and Pachacamac. He says, “Late to the #sonicwatchparty but this is an easter egg I haven’t seen many people catch.” End iD.]

Pachacamac is canonically in Sonic 2020. As director Jeff Fowler has said he believes Sonic as ~13 during the events of the film, we could say he’s about three years old in that intro. And we know this because it is specified specifically that the main timeline takes place ten years after the prologue. 

[ID: Screenshot from Sonic the Hedgehog (2020), the first shot following the logo. It is a landscape shot of a street in the middle of a green field, and the caption reads, Green Hills Montana: Ten Years Later. End ID.]

Meaning... Pachacamac was alive ten years before the film takes place. Quite the departure from the four-thousand year time jump in the gameverse. Seeing as Pachacamac is alive so close to this timeline, we can reasonably assume that Tikal is, too- she’s his teenaged daughter, canonically ~14 when she is turned into a spirit, which would put her as solidly alive during this timeline. 

...wanna know who else would be alive in this timeline? 

Knuckles, who is only a year older than Sonic. 

And, um, obviously a member of the Knuckles Clan. 

3. Where is Knuckles in this Filmverse Canon?

Okay “Knuckles” is going to stop sounding like a word so can we just call the Knuckles Clan the KC rn? okay? Okay. 

Knuckles is canonically a year older than Sonic- listed as 16 while Sonic is 15. So if Sonic’s alive, Knuckles is alive. Basic logic there. 

In the gameverse, Knuckles’s backstory is as thus, paraphrased from Sonic Wiki:

Knuckles was born and raised alone on Angel Island as the last surviving member of the Knuckles Clan, a long-lost race of echidnas devoted to protecting the Master Emerald from being abused. However, Knuckles’s own past was a mystery to him; he knew nothing how he came to be and believed himself to be the last of his kind entirely. The one thing he did know was that he had always been living on his island, protecting the Master Emerald. Knuckles knew from an innate knowledge that his duty was his fate, and he was content with that.

While we can’t expect his backstory to stay exactly the same, seeing as Sonic now has a dead owl mom and knows how to Fortnite dance, but Knuckles’s backstory does fuel a lot of his character and decisions in the games. Here are what I believe to be the two main points of this backstory:

Knuckles is, or at least believes himself to be, the last member of his race 

Knuckles considers it his sacred duty to guard the Master Emerald 

[ID: Screencap from Sonic X of Knuckles the Echidna holding the Master Emerald above his head. End ID.]

Now... if Sonic was three during that backstory, the KC was around at least when Knuckles was about four. Most children don’t develop long-term memories til then, but if 3yo Sonic could remember his backstory in Green Hills near-perfectly, then clearly mobians are a bit different. We can reasonably assume that Knuckles would then remember at least part of his tribe or family, so that’s a definite change. 

Thing is, what would be the reason for this change? Even ignoring Pachacamac, it was definitely intentional for the clan attacking Longclaw and Sonic to be the KC, which does change quite a bit of Knuckles’s backstory. Which isn’t a problem, you see- it’s a drastic change, but character changes aren’t bad if there’s a reason behind them. 

So what would be the reason for Knuckles having memories of his tribe? 

Well... how easy would it be, then, to get that Sonic Adventure flashback via Knuckles instead of a glowing ball of Tikal/Navi? 

[ID: Screencap from Sonic Adventure, showing Knuckles the Echidna staring down Chaos and the glowing ball of light that symbolizes Tikal. They are standing in front of the emerald shards. End ID.]

Would be an easy way to get any chaos emerald/Master Emerald exposition out of the way, as well as establish some basic and early Sonic Lore- Chaos, echidnas, chao. And if Knuckles, um, remembers his entire race being massacred by an elder god?? That would definitely affect him in a way that he’d consider protecting the Master Emerald, the controller of the power Chaos used to do such a thing, a duty for himself. 

And... what would be the best way to get that backstory out? 

4. Knuckles is Tikal’s Baby Brother

Here’s the thing- the KC citizens don’t seem to know much about what’s going on outside of Pachacamac’s orders. From talking to them in Sonic Adventure flashbacks, we can see they’re quite a bit... confused, I think is the best way to put it. 

[ID: Dialogue screenshots from Sonic Adventure that I had to nab from a Game Grumps video because nobody else had these online. The echidnas say, “The daughter? I saw her in front of the shrine.”, “Well... I.... I just can’t sit still!” and “I think, therefore I am.” End ID.]

So if Knuckles was just an ordinary tribe member, it’d be unlikely for him to know enough to provide the necessary flashback details. And if Knuckles’s past was changed in order to provide an easier connection to the SA lore, he’d need to be very near to the action. Of course, he could just be a curious child, but even then, he’d likely be left out of several conversations surrounding Tikal. 

Most of Tikal’s flashbacks are spent alone- she only has a few arguing with her father, but most of her scenes are spent with the Chao and Chaos themself in the Chao Garden. Considering Tikal seems to be the only echidna frequenting the Chao Garden- the chao are afraid of her when she first approaches, Pachacamac arriving is basically seen as a declaration of war- there’d be no reason for an echidna to be there unless she brought them herself. 

Who would she bring with her? Perhaps... her little brother. 

[ID: Screencap from Sonic X of Tikal, surrounded by flying Chao while at the Master Emerald Shrine. End ID.]

First off, let’s get over the age thing-- I know you’re gonna say “Knuckles is 16 when Tikal is 14,” HOWEVER, TIkal did not age while inside the Master Emerald. She could go in at any point in Knuckles’s life, which means she could be anywhere from ten years older than him to a twin sister to two years younger. 

There’s no real concrete evidence of how old Knuckles would be in filmverse when the SA events happen, seeing as we have only seen Pachacamac existing and have no idea where this is in his timeline. However, from a writing standpoint, if you want to keep a bit of Knuckles’s backstory of living alone for a good chunk of his life, I’d say the massacre happening when he was ~8 seems likely. Old enough to have clear memories of the SA events but young enough to have his life completely sidetracked and feel like he raised himself. 

It’d be very easy for the flashbacks to feature Tikal taking a baby Knuckles to the Chao Garden, just telling him “don’t tell Dad, he won’t understand,” to talk to him about the grandmother he doesn’t remember who used to teach peace, to explain Chaos and the Master Emerald to him. 

And it’d be very easy angst for Knuckles being dragged along with the rest of the clan to take the emerald(s), watch his father basically doom his sister and his tribe murder innocent chao, and then see everyone he’s ever known murdered by Chaos, with his older sister stopping the rampage only by sealing herself and the destructive god in that emerald, leaving Knuckles completely alone. That’s all severe angst that pretty much no writer would pass up. 

Especially because it means Knuckles guarding the Master Emerald has now turned into Knuckles guarding his sister. 

[ID: Sonic X screenshot of Knuckles and Tikal looking up, surrounded by fire. End ID.]

So that’s the general theory. But let’s talk about something more fun: how it all ties into the Chaos Emerald Filmverse Theory. 

5. It all ties into our Chaos Emerald theory shh 

If you haven’t read Cori’s manifesto on the Chaos Emerald Filmverse Theory, allow me to summarize: 

Sonic is definitely a living Chaos Emerald, meaning that there are six other living Chaos Emeralds running around that we’re gonna need to track down. At least one of them’s Tails. 

First thing’s first... Robotnik going after Knuckles then makes perfect sense. If Robotnik somehow figured out exactly what Sonic was, he’d want a way to dilute his power. And the Master Emerald literally nullifies the power of the chaos emeralds. So whoever has the Master Emerald can severely nerf Sonic. Imagine Sonic getting within the boundaries of the ME and then immediately losing speed and falling flat on his face. Big oof. 

Second, it’s possible that Knuckles will also know what Sonic is. Because, well... what was Pachacamac after in Sonic Adventure?

[ID: Pachacamac attempting to talk down Tikal, who is t-posing in front of the Chao Garden in attempt to keep them out. Behind him is an echidna army, ready to attack. Pachacamac is saying, “We need those seven emeralds to give us total power!” End ID.]

The Chaos Emeralds. In order to use their power as weapons. 

And what was he after in Sonic 2020? 

Sonic. 

Interesting, huh.

Conclusion

Knuckles is gonna be the last member of the Knuckles Clan, guarding his older sister’s spirit inside an insanely powerful emerald, and will definitely be manipulated by Robotnik into using his Master Emerald to fuck up Sonic. 

And it’ll be really awesome. 

[ID: Sonic X screencap of Knuckles giving a thumbs up. End ID.]