#and so later as adults. he very publicly puts himself out there and expresses interest in wwx (in his own way)

[meteortrails]

there’s something very interesting to me about how a lot of wangxian’s early romantic interactions are uhhhhh. often dubiously consensual at best? and not even really in a like, regency novel ‘I knew they wanted it (and was correct in that assumption)’ way - they both beat themselves up for doing it after the fact. instead, it ends up leaving more of an impression of immaturity, especially in their reactions in the aftermath. they’re too ashamed or scared of rejection to outright ask for what they want, and so end up taking it by force and then rebuking themselves for ever wanting it in the first place afterwards. it’s part of why it’s kinda vital that when they finally get together, it’s wwx being embarrassingly honest in front of a whole group of people - he willingly makes himself vulnerable for lwj, and accepts whatever consequences come with that. like idk I just think wangxian is very much a relationship about like, growth and acceptance, and this is a microcosm of those themes that doesn’t really get discussed

[loveafterthefact]

Love After the Fact Chapter 9: In the Vernacular, Please be my Friend?

Lance and Keith exasperate themselves and each other, but they’re still trying to find common ground to stand on.

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Keith didn’t leave their quarters hardly at all for a movement after they were married. With the exceptions of the incident with Iverson and a minor confrontation with the still-angry seamsmaster (they still hadn’t gotten over the gloves debacle), Keith sequestered himself to their rooms. It seemed the alienating dining room and relatively unfriendly, unhelpful guards and courtiers made him feel unwelcome. Who could have guessed?

Despite the pointed comments from his parents, Lance did not press the issue. Adam brought him food, or Lance, when he wasn’t busy. Keith had seemed faintly surprised that Lance had bothered to do it himself. Like the idea of Lance doing something for him just because was an alien concept.

Over time, giving in to the pressure from the kings, he began to acquaint himself with the dining hall, where the royal family immediately began to invite some gaggle of courtiers or another, the library, which stored the entire civilization’s collected knowledge, and the grounds, where he occasionally absconded with some small plant he thought no one would miss.

Lance was alerted to this habit after one of the gardeners caught Keith stealing a golden regent orchid from a greenhouse. Unfortunately for the distressed gardener, the extremely rare and delicate flower was quite happy in their little garden, and thus Lance declared it would stay.

He’d watched Keith spend several vargas lying on the moss, gazing at the shimmering golden petals. He’d fallen asleep with his tail curled around the stem. Lance had made a note about the Galra kit’s curiosity, speaking to Pidge about ways to keep him busy while he eased his way into royal responsibilities.

At any rate, Keith grew somewhat accustomed to living at the Castle of Lions. By the end of the movement, Keith was starting to venture out for more than meals and stealing from the gardens. He’d even attended court with Lance, sitting on his right, holding his hand on the joined arms of their thrones. At one point, Lord Lanval had come forward to publicly apologize for his slight against the princes at their wedding banquet. Keith had graciously accepted, despite knowing the apology was a show.

In spite of all of this, Lance knows Keith wasn’t happy, and he isn’t exactly happy either. Unfortunately, there isn’t anything he can do.

Lance throws himself into his increasing duties, burying himself in the multitude of smaller concerns that his parents don’t have the time or energy for in the current political climate. Rumors ripple through the royal court and eventually the commonwealth about Crown Prince Lancel and the new practices he’s implementing, including adjusting how taxes are set.

Now, thanks to him, taxes are decided based on income against estimated needed expense. Said expense is not being estimated by courtiers, but by newly hired tax collectors, and based on specific criteria set by Lance, Adam, and Pidge. Keith had suggested that the tax collectors be required to wear pocketless uniforms while collecting, to which Lance had agreed.

“Lancel, everyone is charged the same amount on their taxes. It’s equality.”

“Yes, and farmers scrape by poaching the wilds while Lord Lanval hands us the top off his spare change at the end of the decaphob. This is better than equality, Father. This is equity .”

The appraising look he’d received from Alfor and the collection of small gifts from the agrarian population have been worth the hours-long-winded explanation he’d owed his fathers. The detail he’d had to go into had been excruciating. Coran had done his very best to speed things up, but had hindered more than helped. Lance loves him for his efforts.

Needless to say, he’s tired when he returns to their room much later with Keith’s dinner, finding him and Shiro sitting on the floor in front of the fireplace. They’re talking softly in Galran. Lance pretends not to understand as he sets Keith’s food on the end table.

“No, he didn’t,” Keith whispers, moving a piece on the board game he’d found in his upstairs loft. Lance has taken to leaving games and puzzles in places where Keith could find them. And any pretty trinkets he thinks the Galra might like. Keith doesn’t seem sure what to make of it, and frankly Lance isn’t sure he knows where the objects are even coming from. Perhaps they're more interesting to Keith as a mystery.

“Truly? That is how Alteans consummate their unions. He should have.” Keith shakes his head, and Shiro’s eyes slide to Lance. “Interesting.”

“He is interesting. I don’t hate him, I think.” Well that’s... marginally gratifying. “You don’t hate the attendant. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you like him.”

“You- You shut up!”

“I bet you just wanna eat him up, don’t you? All little and cute like he is.” Lance smiles at Adam as he prances in with the usual sigh and a swing of his hips. Shiro blusters.

“So. Are your fathers, Ancients bless them, stupid?”

“No, they’re just old. The tax system hasn’t been changed since my great-grandfather Mahi was king and it's always been enough to fund the Crown so if it’s not visibly broken, why fix it?” Lance explains. “I think Dad was on board from the beginning. And Father just wants to give me a hard time every now and then. Payback, I guess.”

Adam sighs, datapad clutched in one hand. He pushes his glasses up his nose with the other. “No, he doesn’t. He just…”

“Thinks I’m an idiot?” Lance offers. Out of the corner of his eye, Keith keeps playing with Shiro’s visibly perked ears. They bend back with Keith’s manhandling, only to bounce right back into place. Keith seems to find it very funny, snickering each time they spring forward.

“Lance, you’ve done your best to convince them both that you’re an idiot. Where does this tablet go?”

“It was swiped from the library. Just put it on the nightstand. No, no. The other nightstand. On Keith’s side.” Lance lifts yesterday’s vest from the floor. “I find it interesting that Father buys it, and Dad does not.”

“But not surprising?” Keith asks, briefly glancing at Lance, tugging on Shiro’s ear. The adult Galra seems content with the manhandling. Lance wonders if it's normal to let kits maul you.

“Oh Ancients, no. Dad’s a terrible judge of character, but he knows me too well to be fooled.”

“So King Alfor is a terrible father who doesn’t know his own son?” Shiro asks, swatting playfully at his brother’s hand.

“No, he was just on his own for a long time. After Melinor died, he had Altea, Daibazaal, me and Allura, Coran, and, well. You can guess what happened-”

Keith laughs from where he’s still seated on the floor with his brother.

Lance frowns, turning to watch them. He notices Shiro’s still-perked ears and attentive eyes, fixed on Adam as the attendant begins picking up the trail of misplaced items Lance constantly leaves in his wake. There aren’t that many.

Shiro’s ears are so expressive, their movements as important as his smile.

But Keith... Keith’s ears are mostly stationary, no matter what. They rotate when he hears a noise and they wilt or twitch sometimes, but mostly when he is unsure of himself. Otherwise, they’re just kind of there, like he’s not entirely sure how to move them. That, combined with his generally reserved demeanor, suggests to Lance that Keith doesn’t know how to express himself.

The longer Lance spends with Keith, which admittedly isn’t much, the more he suspects that Keith spent most of his life alone.

It breaks his heart, really. Keith’s actually kind of sweet. He strikes Lance as a gentle soul, and a warm one, when he’s allowed to be. His fond teasing of Shiro regarding his apparent infatuation with Adam stands as a testament to that.

“You should just talk to him.”

“Shut up.”

“He’s stopped looking like he’ll run away if you try.”

“Wait, what? He’s scared of me?”

Keith falters, tries his best to backtrack. “Oh, no, Shiro. Of course not. I’m sure he was just stressed. He’s not scared of you.”

Adam’s absolutely intimidated by the enormous Galra soldier, but Lance isn’t. The man’s adorable.

“Hey Shiro, got any hobbies?” Lance asks. Keith leans over and whispers something that set his brother’s ears aflurry.

“Oh. Um. Well, actually, I like gardening.” Out of the corner of his eye, Lance sees Adam pause before going back to fiddling with the bed canopy.

“When he retires, he wants to open an apothecary,” Keith supplies.

“Really? Well that’s very interesting,” Lance says. “Adam here has quite the interest in botany himself, don’t you? Quite the physik, actually.”

Adam smooths over a pillowcase unnecessarily. “Yes.”

“Perhaps you can exchange comunique codes and compare notes. You leave tomorrow night, don’t you Shiro?”

“Huh? Oh! Yes I do, I’m afraid. Royal Advisor Krolia has been doing both her job and mine, so I really can’t stay longer.”

“I see.” Lance notices how Keith’s mood drops drastically with the turn of conversation. “Well please come back and visit when you can. You are family now, and always welcome. Just let us know before you arrive so I can make sure you won’t starve.”

Shiro smiles with gratitude. “Thank you, Lance.” The man rises to his towering height. “I’d best begin packing my things. Keith, you stay here and at least try to be friends with your husband.”

“Shiro-”

“No, Keith.” Shiro lays a hand on Keith’s head. “It will get easier. I promise. But you need to try, too. He is.”

Keith nods, studying the half-finished board game in front of him, now devoid of an opponent. Lance turns to Adam, addressing him in Altean. “Can you give us a minute? It’s tricky to get him to talk, and he won’t if you’re here.”

Adam abandons his fiddling. “I’d best go speak to Pidge if I’m to get that comms code set up. It’ll be valuable to have another source inside the Galra fold. Perhaps the captain will be useful.”

Lance heaves a sigh, sitting down where Shiro had been before. “Hey-”

“Did you know I can speak Altean?” Keith murmurs, studying the game board. Quiznak.

“Did you know I speak Galran?” The two stare at each other for a moment. Then sigh, shoulders drooping. “We have to stop doing this. We have to stop trying to get one over on each other,” Lance says. “We’re the only people we know we can trust-”

“I don’t know if I can trust you.”

Lance bites his lip. “I trust you. I don’t think you would hurt me. Not at all.”

“Lance, I’ve been trained specially to kill you.”

“And?” Lance shrugs. “I’ve been trained how to kill you . That’s how it is... You know, we could have met in battle. We could have fought each other. One of us could have killed the other. Been celebrated for it. Rewarded.” Keith’s ears wilt. He doesn’t seem to like that idea any more than Lance does.

“What do you want, Lance?” Lance moves one of Shiro’s pieces and hands Keith the twenty-sided die. Keith tosses the die, moves a piece, and on it goes.

“Shiro leaves tomorrow,” Lance observes. The ears droop further, tail limp against the floor. “I wanted to see how you’re doing. See if there’s anything I can do.”

Keith’s quiet for a long time, amethyst eyes dull and downcast. Lance sighs, assumes he’s not going to make any progress today.

“Okay, Keith. That’s alright-”

“My brother is leaving, and I will be alone here. I miss my mother.” Of course. Of course he does. “It- It hurts.” Of course it hurts. Keith’s still a kit. He still has that powerful kit’s bond with his mother, with his pack. “There’s not a whole lot to be done.” Keith pulls out his datapad and dims the lights to nothing. It’s just the fire, no moon to shine through the domed glass roof of the tower above. “It’ll get better, the longer we’re separated.”

“I can get you a comms code-”

“No. Thank you, but that will make it worse. In a few movements, maybe a phoeb, I’d like that, but for now, this is best.”

It’s only later, when they’re in bed, that Lance realizes exactly what’s happening to Keith. Parent-child bonds are powerful things for Galra. Keith’s have remained even as his mother served in battles during the second war. Normally, such a bond fades during a Galra’s final growth.

Now, that bond is being forced apart before its time. Again.

Lance can only imagine what all of Keith’s loss and moving around and such has done to him. He notices the Galra trying to massage his own ears, self-soothing, hears a tiny, smothered chirp. Distressed. He scoots closer, reaches out, replaces Keith’s fingers with his own.

"It's alright, Keith. I've got you."

The Galra tenses for a moment, relaxes. Lance can hear him purring as he settles. He is this kit’s primary pack-member now. He’ll take good care of him. He trusts Keith to return the favor if he gets a chance.

“Keith?” A hum of acknowledgement. “I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m sorry that you’re still a kit and I’m sorry about your family and I’m sorry that you’re here.”

“If you’re sorry, then help me do better. Make sure it doesn’t have to happen to our children.”

“I swear it. On my life.”

[edwardslostalchemy]

Explain the difference between endevour and Bakugou’s Behavior when it comes to treating others how they do. Thanks (:D)

This is tough because I’m so biased to believe they are both abusive. And I really just want to tell you with the Pam from the Office meme that they’re the same person. But I know that’s not entirely true. Both of these characters have inflicted damage to other characters. 

However, I acknowledge that Katsuki is still a teenager and I am holding out for hope that Horikoshi gives him proper development, that he can regret his actions, have a good redemption arc, apologize to Izuku, and be a better character. 

Endeavor is just. A monster. Because through more than 20 years, he never stopped to think that MAYBE just MAYBE he was hurting PEOPLE, and the people were his FAMILY, his WIFE, his CHILDREN. He hurt FIVE people. He didn’t even see them as people to begin with, just a means to an end. He didn’t even see Shouto as a child, he saw him as his ‘masterpiece’, an extension of himself, the perfect tool to use for his ambition. He saw his three older children as failures and neglected them, pushing them aside and separating Shouto from his siblings because he ‘lived in a different world from the one they lived in’. It is heavily implied and suggested that he has beat his wife and even on screen, the sounds that were made were obviously of him hitting her and she falls to the ground. And the way Shouto reacts, with a horrified expression while calling for his mother, is more than enough proof that that’s what happened in that one instant. He drove her to madness, so much so that she ended up maiming her youngest child, someone who had no fault in any of what was going on, but ended up on the receiving end of her meltdown, unfortunately. And what did Endeavor do? He put her in a mental hospital because she ‘hurt his masterpiece’. Not even ‘because she hurt my son/child’ or ‘because she needs help’. Because he hurt his masterpiece. His tool. We still don’t know what happened to Touya, but we do know that Endeavor had a hand in killing him, which is horrifying and so so terrible. How…how do you just. Move on from that? It’s no wonder Natsuo hates him so much. It’s no wonder Shouto has so many mixed feelings and doesn’t know what to feel. It’s no wonder Rei is so scared of him and doesn’t want to see him even if it’s been more than 10 years since she’s been there. Even Fuyumi has admitted that she feels the same way as Natsuo and Shouto. 

This is different from Katsuki. He didn’t do any of this and I really hope he never does. It would be unfortunate and sad. He has been compared to Endeavor, though, in terms of behavior, by All Might. However, he still hurt Izuku. He’s called him useless, he’s called him scum and has said he is like a pebble and like an insect he can crush if I remember correctly; he’s used his quirk on him to hurt him, and just by what we saw from the first episode, it says a lot about what he did. As little kids, he and his friends beat up Izuku. And then fast forward to middle school, he’s still bothering and hurting him. It’s quite exaggerated if I’m being honest, but still, Izuku is pushed against the wall and Katsuki stands over him threateningly. Their teacher doesn’t even do anything to stop it. After classes end, he burns Izuku’s notebook and tosses it out of the window and then tells him to kill himself. After the entrance exam for UA and they both get accepted, he pushes Izuku against a secluded wall and threatens him to not go to UA. He used so much of his quirk during the battle trial that All Might warned him not to use it or else he’d kill Izuku. And his response was that he wouldn’t get killed as long as he dodged. He still threatened him during their first semester and hit him in the face during their final exam. We don’t get to see throughout the years the extend of the bullying, just glimpses of how Katsuki tells Izuku his quirk will never be as good as his, he would leave him behind, he’d push him down; but we get to see the aftermath and Izuku does not think of himself as worthy. He has self-esteem issues, he flinches whenever he is approached by Katsuki, although this is improving because he hasn’t been stepping back recently. Katsuki can’t attack Izuku anymore because Aizawa can stop him. It’s not because he felt bad. It’s because a teacher with the means to do it finally stepped in and went ‘nope’. Aizawa doesn’t reprimand him, but he stops him. Izuku is getting better at fighting back. Katsuki can’t push him around anymore. But it doesn’t mean he’s stopped yelling at him or has stopped hurting him. He still stabs him on the head to shut him up. He’s very disrespectful when it comes to OFA meetings (and really he’s disrespectful all the time). But the thing is that now, currently in the manga, he doesn’t have that chance to attack Izuku anymore. Which is GOOD. I still see his behavior as abusive because bullies are abusive. They still hurt people mentally, physically, and/or emotionally. 

The difference is that nobody was there to stop Endeavor, but someone was there to stop Katsuki. Endeavor took a hell of a long time to realize that what he did was not right and evaluated that his reasons for doing what he did were not really….I guess enough. Or wrong. Perhaps I’m not interpreting that scene correctly, where he is fighting High End and he’s thinking “that’s the reason….the reason…” and it pans over Rei, Natsuo, Fuyumi, and Shouto. Endeavor is an ADULT who should have better judgement and better sense in treating people like people. He’s a certified Hero, but only acts heroically publicly. With his family? Not even close. He did it because he believed this was the best option for reaching his goal. But it was not an ethical option. Katsuki did what he did because his ego was inflated and people would tell him he was the best and his quirk was amazing, even by Izuku. Katsuki is a KID. And I really hope he gets better development. I really hope he stops hurting Izuku and starts treating him like a person and like a friend. (And I say this for Izuku’s sake, not his.) 

Now as far as how these two characters treat other people.

They’re both arrogant and proud, but they’re executed differently. Endeavor is arrogant in that he doesn’t want to join other heroes because he ‘is a very busy man’, as we saw when detective Tsukauchi requested his help to rescue Katsuki from the League of Villains. He also complained that All Might was getting the spotlight and not him. Why did he have to stay where he was when All Might was rushing into action? I am trying to translate this word to English, but what comes up is despot. He abuses power and oppresses others, most notably his family. However, because of his status, he is still rude and selfish with other people. His interactions with All Might are so tense. All Might goes to say hi and he’s like “is that it?” and walks away. And then he tells him how Shouto will beat him. It’s disgusting how he talks about Shouto as if he were a tool and not his son, and also he says ‘that’s why I made him’ as if Shouto is only worth being something to use instead of someone to cherish, i.e. a child. He’s beginning to atone, which is good. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth because I cannot stand abusers and I myself have dealt with someone who is awful. Not on this level of asshole, but he’s still an asshole. Anyway, back to him. He allows Natsuo to tell him what he’s thinking, which is GOOD. This is something I like because he didn’t shut Natsuo down and Natsuo was able to speak what was on his mind. Fuyumi is probably the person he has….I don’t want to use the word fondness….that implies that he cares about her, and honestly, I still want to believe that despite his abusive nature, he can at least spare some care for his daughter. I don’t know what word to use, but he lets her have dinners and convinces him to bring his interns over. He’s also trying to show Shouto that he can be a better hero, one he can be proud of. And I understand that this is part of his atonement, but it does not arouse sympathy out of me. His interaction with Hawks is interesting. He’s rude and impatient and wants for him to get to the point. However, he did not blow up when Hawks gave him a major burn on live television. Although, in later chapters, he lets Hawks give him information and it’s good he allowed this because it was so crucial. 

Katsuki is different from Endeavor in that he does blow up on people. His personality is, you guessed it, explosive. And I understand that goes with his character. Endeavor is fiery…he is fierce… Shouto is warm and cold. Izuku is full of energy he cannot contain, bouncing off walls verbally and physically. So it makes sense that Katsuki is explosive. However, he yells and threatens and tells people to die. I’ve read a post explaining that him telling people to die is a common thing to say in Japan amongst kids. Perhaps if handled differently for Katsuki, it would be funny when it’s meant to be funny. But anyway, let’s go with his explosive nature. He blows up. He loses his cool so easily and is provoked instantly. He treats people like dirt, not gonna lie. I want to believe he’s getting better. But I can’t see it. It’s so hard for me to see it. Blowing up on people that see him as a friend, blowing up on Izuku, blowing up on his classmates. Constantly telling Shouto they are NOT friends even though Shouto thinks they are. I see he has not yelled at Momo, which is good, because if he were to do it, I would be out for blood. He’s not horrible to Kirishima, and he’s getting better? Like that bit where Kirishima was insecure and he told him he was strong, that was nice. I wish he would be that way with other people, too. The way he wanted to fight all the kids during the provisional license remedial course was something. And that line he said to the leader of the kids felt hollow, but at least he stopped yelling at the kids. He’s also not 100% insensitive, because he at least listened to Shouto when he said there’s other ways of reaching out to children that DON’T involve violence, and he thought back to when Shouto told Izuku about how he was abused. He is learning to cooperate, which is something I appreciate, although he is not perfect, as we saw when he joined the 1A band (thanks Sero). I would like for him to realize, though, that his behavior needs improvement. Or at least he needs to stop yelling at everyone and should direct this anger towards villains. 

So really Katsuki doesn’t give a damn about public image, but Endeavor does. Still, both are rude and brash and flaunt their power in front of other people. Endeavor literally does this simply by having his fire mask, mustache, and beard all the time when he is out. 

I hope this is enough/satisfactory for you, anon. I tried to stay objective, but again that was difficult given how much I hate both characters. If anyone wants to add on, feel free because I’m sure I missed something, but this is what I was able to put together.

[linettiewizowski]

So I saw this one post from someone on their opinion of the love square. And I really wanted to point out a few things but their replies are turned off.... So I'm answering it here anyways.

(This rant is very long, not kidding, if ya feel like reading what's basically a big ass PowerPoint then go right ahead)

- Being a child does NOT give you a pass to stalk, be possessive over, steal from, invade the boundaries, invade the personal space, of someone you have a crush on.

That is wrong. Children should not be allowed to carry on such innapropriate, behavior. No one should.

- Children need guidance and protection. They cannot always learn or handle things on their own....that should be obvious with Marinette and especially Adrien.

Plus-

°I don't think Tom & Sabine ever expected Marinette to be a stalker....so they would never think to teach her otherwise.

- Yes I know she does realize what she's doing is wrong.....but then she just continues anyways. (Or maybe it only seems like she didn't stop because the episodes are out of order? But even then she STILL acts like this in newer episodes so I'm still sticking to what I said.)

°Adrien.......needs to be taken away to a safe & stable household. (Please let Emelie awaken soon, maybe she'll set things straight. Gabriel deserves a divorce & prison.) Even so, Gabriel does recognize such unhealthy behavior. Gabriel also would not at all expect his son to behave so innapropriately. I am purdy sure he thinks Adrien is "perfect." He even calls Adrien "perfection" in one episode. - It would not even cross his mind to teach his son proper etiquette concerning a crush.

>Ahem, Adrien's possessive, territorial, pushy, somewhat obsessive, Jealous, sometimes moody behavior concerning his feelings for Ladybug.

Constantly hitting on her, flirting with her, getting up in her space, when she has repeatedly showed him that she is NOT interested in him. Even when she revealed she had feelings for another boy he kept pushing.

- The episode where he thought he had right to be angry when she "stood him up" when - The way "Chat" said it & the way "Lady" reacted? Lady only saw it as a dinner between friends.....He then went on to set up an obviously romantic candlelight dinner.

- Once again, Ladybug has made it specifically clear, she is not interested.

Lady did not even fully agree to said dinner. She said she had plans.

Adri-Chat asked "If they end early, come join me?" Lady said "We'll see."

- That is not a yes, that is a maybe. He didn't even take HER plans into account, didn't even think "Well maybe her plans didn't end early." He just gets mad. And Lady should not have been made to feel guilty just because Adri-Chat cannot seem to take/understand a no & a maybe.

- Adri-Chat getting jealous when that one artist expressed his crush on Ladybug and going on to cross Lady's boundaries by lying about the reality of his & Lady's relationship.

(Yes I know, that dude was an adult and Lady-Mar actually a teen. But at that point in the show I'm pretty sure no one could guess the age of Lady & Chat (strangely) and like Spooderman no one thought them to be actual children.) Adri-Chat did that without thinking or even asking for Lady's input. Not cool at all.

- Acting all happy, triumphant when they regained their memories in Oblivio and Alya caught a pic of their amnesiac selves kissing.

What Adri-Chat says: "We're meant for eachother Milady, you're the only one who doesn't see it." (Okay sigh, this boy.)

1. That is a totally uncalled for, arrogant and presumptuous thing to say to Ladybug.

2. (Entirerly From Adri-Chat's perspective) Oblivio erases memories right? So Adri-Chat doesn't even consider the erasion of Lady's supposed crush on this other boy. Leading her to fall her HIM yes, but that's not the point.

Neither of them were in their right minds, as they had no memories. From HIS perspective Lady did not remember her crush on this other boy, if she did, she would not have fallen for Chat at the time of the memory erasion.

Adri-Chat does not at all think about that, all the while STILL ignoring her feelings for the other boy. Nope, he thinks this is some kind of encouragement to keep harassing her because "Maybe she'll choose me one day?" A.K.A. "Maybe she'll come around one day?" - (contemplating calling it sexual harassment because the characters of course do not get sexual, it being a kid's show) But his intent is to get her to date him....Hm. It is still harassment though.

>Ahem,hem. Marinette's obsessive, compulsive, possessive, territorial, jealous, fanatical, controlling, a LOT of times single minded, stalker behavior concerning her feelings for Adrien.

°Same drill - Not dating (Even if they were, still wrong just adding in)

°Adrien has not at all made his feelings clear on anyone (from Mari's perspective)

°Has not shown romantic interest in her.

°Adrien is not aware of her behavior at all. Not even when he spots all of the pictures of him in her room does he get it. (Being too naive is a very bad thing Adrien.)

°Marinette sometimes acts as if Adrien belongs to HER and no one else can have him. She goes to great, ridiculous and sometimes extreme heights just to keep girls she sees as rivals away from him.

She goes overboard, embarrasses herself, acts immature & compulsive. Sometimes she gets mean.

°Chloe & Lila being horrible is no excuse for her to treat Adrien like a possession, and also like he isn't an intelligent person who cannot notice obvious/strange things or protect himself.

(The plot is confusing yes, Adrien not noticing Mari is Ladybug, giving Chloe multiple chances/still being her friend, Being sympathetic to Lila.

While ALSO in some cases being close to connecting the dots to Mari being Lady, Condemning Chloe's outrageous behavior even in one instance totally putting his foot down, and being one of the only people to see through Lila's lies and side with/protect Marinette....though not exactly how he should.) Chalk it up to not that great writing = serious plotholes.

Anyways

°Adrien can kiss, hang out with, travel with, talk to and date whoever he wants. Mari has NO right to manipulate situations where he can't do that. I.E Controlling behavior.

°Now, Kagami is not a bad person. (More than Half the fandom's treatment of her is very disappointing.) Yes I know, she can be harsh, standoffish and cold sometimes. But-

°She does not intend to be mean, she does not, nor does she want to bully anyone. She does not bully Marinette. She just wants Marinette to stop being indecisive and flighty because Kagami ALSO likes Adrien (and by the way she was raised) does not think people should be so indecisive & hesitant or they'll miss important chances for them to take in life.

°Kagami does not think Mari is right for Adrien no, but as soon as she thinks Adrien is interested in Mari? She immediately backs off & respects his wishes. She only engages again when Adrien shows interest in her again.

°Then later on in the show she even attempts to make friends with Mari genuinely because she wants to make friends.....(and Mari doesn't understand because of Kagami's awkwardness but is also simultaneously clouded by her feelings for Adrien.) Kagami actually feels hurt when she finds out that Marinette initially didn't like her.

Kagami is a GOOD girl.

°Now, what Marinette did to Kagami in Animaestro before that was very unacceptable.

Temporarily teaming up with Chloe to sabotage/publicly humiliate/embarrass Kagami to "not let her get Adrien" "not let her take Adrien away," mess with Adrien's perception of her.

- Jumping to outrageous conclusions out of paranoia, panic and fear. (My cute child needs to be sat down and sternly talked to about this.)

- Trying to manipulate & take away Adrien's choice to decide whether he wants Kagami or not.

(I think this probably marked the episode where Mari's unhealthy/toxic behavior starts to spiral as new episodes come out. (And these ARE out of order so wth is up with Mari's unhealthy escalation lately?)

- Using Tiki for personal, jealous purposes to humiliate Lila in front of Adrien. Acting so irrational and heated in front of 2 civillains(from her perspective) Mari?

- Invading Adrien's home/room, touching everything, lying on his bed....sniffing his things? 😧 Without his consent just to leave a present....when she could have just left it on the window sill, not barge into his room and NOT act very creepy.

- Everything she did & said when she thought that Adrien was one of the wax statues.

😮😬😖 Marinette, honey noooooOOOooo.

ALL OF THIS?

Toxic/Unhealthy behavior. It very much is.

Let's not pretend please.

This is not acceptable period. I very much side-eye another's perceptions on the matter when they say "I knew people like this" "They turned out alright."

Oh...did they? Or is this simply what YOU are saying and we, the internet people don't have the full story?

I Kill Bill squint my eyes at the opinions of people who so easily dismiss toxic/unhealthy behavior.

This is not simply a discussion on fictional characters btw, but on the behavior itself ECT. and the fact that this person brought in real people as an example.

(Btw Any teens reading this? Young adults? Please remember to use protection when having sex. Babies are a high stress responsibility that a person who is either still a kid or a very young adult should not be handling or have to handle. "Results may vary" and all that. Another person's experiences aren't guaranteed to be yours and we already have COUNTLESS evidence that having babies while young is NOT a good idea. Please & Thank you.)

In response to a little tidbit in that person's post.) Anyways.

- Being mature while in a relationship is very important. That much is apparent.

In the context of the show for these 2 teens they are in love with one another.

You cannot behave like all of THIS if you wish to maintain a relationship with someone.

This is not grounds for a healthy, safe, respectful relationship.

°Not respecting your friend or spouse, their choices, their boundaries, their space, their being makes you a borderline abusive person.

(Guys c'mon.) If Adrien & Marinette were real people? They would be very creepy, toxic kids. Hell we DO have some very toxic people, even children that act like this in real life. This is a no. All the no.

- Other ships in the show being unhealthy does not in no way invalidate or downplay the fact that Adrien & Marinette's behavior is unhealthy.

- There are many, many, many, many instances of their unhealthy behavior, not "just two." It's insulting that this person treats the fans who point this out as if we are some idiots who do not watch the show and therefore can not call out this obvious lie.

- There being moments where Adrien & Marinette actually behave theirselves for once does not at all erase or invalidate every single one of their toxic moments.

- The show does not do a good job of writing scenes where getting into these characters heads that behaving this way is unacceptable, at all. No character development there.

(Them giving up on persuing eachother at the end of the season does not address the toxic behavior. That is just them being tired of not getting the results that they want from their crushes.)

- It's hard for me to debate as well. Calling the whole ship unhealthy/toxic? In real life, no way josay would this be okay, in the show? Marinette & Adrien at their core ARE good kids. And they DO sometimes realize their mistakes. But it really, truly isn't enough. There is either not much or no consequences to their innapropriate behavior at all.

(You might say Chat Blanc, but that was circumstance because they didn't reveal their identities to each other in full, not consequence for Mari's creepy room invasion, that was separate.)

It's so debatable. These unhealthy behaviors should NOT be encouraged and the Love Square shouldn't be shipped during them.

I'm just gonna say that I hope with all my might that the writers get it into their heads that this is NOT okay to market to children and that they CANNOT expect kids to understand or tell what toxic behavior is or that the innapropriate things Adri & Mari do are okay.

THAT is a large issue above all else here.

(Let's get some major character development please.)

- "Sometimes you have to sacrifice when you love someone."

This sounds way left field and is not at ALL what the fans who protest Adri & Mari's toxic behavior are talking about.

- "I think a lot of the criticism comes from people who just don't understand love. Maybe they've never been in love."

How absolutely patronizing, condescending, presumptuous in itself and very ignorant.

That's not even. How do I respond to that?

Wow.

I am not repeating myself, I already wrote a whole darn essay. My answer to this is all of the above.

And lastly-

"But the love square is FAR from toxic.

Far, far, far from it."

...Hm. Hm Hm. Hm. Yes of course. 😐😐😐

Okey. I think I'm done here. It's literally been an hour gathering my thoughts, typing and editing this. Anybody who actually read all of this, feel free to comment? Note? I dunno, I'm new to Tumblr. Calling comments/replies "notes" is weird to me.

[toujoursmiraculous]

Puppeteer 2 Reaction!

Let’s just... get directly to it. It’s very long. Adrien and Plagg in the beginning just having fun spending time together. That’s really sweet, we need more of this. Adrien can invite a friend somewhere for once :o So he calls Nino, who’s with Alya, and Alya wouldn’t go without Marinette so she has to come too, but sadly she’s babysitting Manon so 1 becomes 4 guests. But for real, Nino trying to set up Adrien and Marinette. xDDD He reacts the same way as Marinette, it’s so amusing. He, just like her, keeps saying things wrong, oops. Children see things for how they are. It’s amazing that older kids and adults don’t take this seriously. They also don’t know anything about subtlety. Manon’s questions and comments in the car... They’re stuck in a small space and she has nowhere to run. Poor Marinette. But I love how Adrien explains to Manon about why Marinette has so many pictures of him in her room. xD And how she gives him a grateful look. SHHH about the hearts, Manon! The animation in this scene. I really noticed how amazing it was when Marinette covered Manon’s ears and got upset, whispering to Nino and Alya. “Wait, Marinette wants to be alone with me?” *squeals* “Well, Marinette, alone with you? Surely not, you can’t be farther from the truth! That’s even the contrary, I would say.” “Marinette doesn’t want to be alone with me..? *shoots her a really pained look*” Wow what a big, painful fail. “Wait, she hates me?” My heart = shattered

Please Nino, quit talking!

That seed of doubt has been planted in Adrien’s mind. Oh gosh why. WHY?? Seeing Adrien sad over this huuurts. I have to say, rewinding the scene to get both conversations that were going on simultaneously was pretty neat. Especially the different angles of the same scene we got. Okay, I appreciate what Alya and Nino are trying to do for Marinette, but trying to get them alone so she can confess to him is a lot of pressure to be thrown on her last-minute! Nino and Manon are so cute aww. Marinette: *screams through the door* DON’T LEAVE ME ALONE WITH HIM! *turns around to see Adrien is like 3 feet away from her and realizes you don’t  want to be alone with him and how it visibly hurt him* Yeah girl, that’s not going to help matters. Like I get your fear, but you can’t say that for him to hear you. “Nino said...” “DON’T BELIEVE ANYTHING NINO SAID, IT’S NONSENSE!” That sigh of relief though oh gosh. Oops Marinette said too much, now she has to make it seem like she likes him, a lot, but not in a romantic way, so she says the wrong thing and now he’s sad again oh shoot. “If I’m not a good buddy, then what am I?” This moment right here was KEY. This right here is when she should’ve just taken a deep breath and be honest with him. Told him how he means a lot to her, even if she left the romantic part of her feelings for him out. Instead, she panicked and ran away, leaving him feeling bad. This shows that she’s not ready at all to be with Adrien, because she can’t even bring herself to tell him how much he means to her. Plagg’s comedic relief today. xD Just the fact that Adrien thinks he’s done something wrong makes me feel bad, and how he wants to make her feel like he’s her friend. That self-doubt of his... my boy DX Tikki’s advice is usually pretty good, but today, it’s just going to completely backfire. Adrien with such a determined look on his face saying Marinette is very important to him and would do anything to make her feel good when he’s around? So between Chat Noir’s declaration in Weredad and this, Adrien honey, why can’t you see that this is not what “just friends” do?? There’s a difference between wanting your friends to be happy and helping them, versus what you’re saying about her. Alright, so what happened was I saw the thumbnail with the kiss prior to watching the episode. I saw one second of another clip that came up where Adrien was standing there with the Clara/Laura statue behind him. I knew coming into this that Adrien was going to pretend to be a statue and she’d kiss him, and was horrified to be right. This entire scene. This whole scene. I couldn’t watch it at all the first time. I had to pause it multiple times the second time, and here we are, the third time around, and I told myself ‘you’re going to watch it without pausing. You’re going to get through it. You can DO IT’ No, I very well cannot do it. As soon as she touched his face I went NOPE and paused the video. I tried thinking of focusing on the animation and how beautiful it is. BUT NO I CAN’T DO IT. I just started screaming “WHY?!” in English, Spanish, French, and Chinese. The only way I can get through it is by pausing every few seconds and screaming in multiple languages. She just... has to say those things....and touch him... and plucked his hair and put it in her bag. WHY MARINETTE, WHY??? You didn’t even know it was Adrien! You know what? Give a round of applause to Adrien for not bursting into laughter, because nobody would keep a straight face and remain still like that through this.

I actually went into a rant with my sister because I just can’t... believe this is real. Both shouldn’t have done either of these things. He shouldn’t have pretended to be a statue, she shouldn’t have ever done something like this in a public place. Adrien apologizing for it and Marinette being upset and lightly pounding on his chest about it not being funny at all. This scene, despite what just happened, is so cute and like something I wouldn’t have expected to see in ML for some reason. xD It’s interesting that he says that after all the time he’s spent with her, he still doesn’t know how to be a good friend to her. He keeps thinking he’s doing things wrong and that’s why she acts the way she does, when in reality it’s the exact opposite. He’s so hard on himself about it because she’s so important to him. After a brief intro to Puppeteer and Alya/Nino being affected by the akuma, we have to go back to serious Adrienette stuff. *deep inhale* Adrien wants to know if everything she said serious. This was the absolute best opportunity to just say “yes” and then she could explain if she wanted. Really the only time Marinette lies to people, other than to get away from a situation to become Ladybug, is when Adrien asks her about her feelings. Having to lie about getting away to become Ladybug is inevitable, but this... this needs to change. Please, if it ever comes up again where Adrien asks her about her feelings, she has to finally admit it. Please. Please please! Every time Adrien and Marinette are in a situation where they’re being attacked, Marinette always just freezes and Adrien swoops in and protects her. Every. Time. This was so Chat Noir though, c’mon Marinette! The animation is just so GOOD I can’t get enough of it! Marinette: Be careful! Adrien: *fending of wax Hawk Moth with an umbrella* Don’t worry about me! Literally 10 seconds later, Ladybug rescues Adrien. Adrien: *runs to hide* Literally 10 seconds later, Chat Noir plops down next to Ladybug. GUYS DO YOU NOT FIND THAT WEIRD AT ALL, CONSIDERING YOU’RE ALONE AND THE AKUMA ISN’T PUBLICLY BEING BROADCAST, THAT YOUR FRIEND RAN OFF AND SECONDS LATER YOUR PARTNER SHOWS UP? Ladybug informing Chat that Puppeteer has returned. But the only way she’d know that is if she put together that it was Manon’s voice that came from the speakers, like Marinette and Adrien did. Seriously, are these coincidences ever going to add up?? Chat almost kissing a statue xD Thank goodness he was still aware enough to smell that it wasn’t Ladybug. But if he knows how she smells, does he not notice Marinette smells the exact same way? And earlier, Marinette noticed how Adrien smells. Does she not notice Chat Noir smells the same way either?? Now we have SMELL becoming a part of this! I also appreciate the advice Chat gave Ladybug when she wondered how he was able to say things expressing how he feels about her so easily. “Only one cat can ask for her hand.” OMG Chat! Okay okay so Marinette and Adrien are apologizing. Marinette said she’s sorry for kissing the statue, if she had known it was him she wouldn’t. But earlier to cover up her feelings, she said she knew it wasn’t him. So um.... Now he explains about why he did it, and she lets him know of course she wasn’t upset with him, he asks if they’re friends then, and she says of course they are! It looks like a cute and happy ending to the episode that’ll put a smile on your face and make everything earlier not seem as bad. And then, because Marinette says they shouldn’t joke anymore when in doubt, he has to add on that the girl he loves says that a lot too. *defeated groan and sigh* THINGS WERE GOING SO WELL. But it’s only fair she knows now. He knows Ladybug loves someone else, now she knows Adrien loves someone else. I think this is what Marinette needed to hear to let go of him quite a bit and just have him as a friend for the time being. But gosh this sucks. He has to know she’s upset now, right? And that she was fine before he blurted that out? Can he piece it together later, please???? She’s so upset she didn’t even say goodbye. She just says “Yeah” and shuts the door. This is angst. This is the start of angst that I didn’t know this show would give us. “I think life can give you a lot of surprises, Marinette!” That’s true. And she would know what those surprises are (: I’m glad she had the same reaction of being positive despite being told your crush likes someone else as Adrien did when he found out. c: Nice parallel. “Maybe... it’s a ridiculous first kiss, anyway.” Girl, you don’t even know. This episode... this episode was so serious. It felt more like I was watching an Asian drama or something as opposed to ML and I honestly really like that? It felt more realistic and not rushed, and it covered issues (but one’s still lingering and I’m sure will be mentioned later) that have been hanging around for awhile. If production order is about chronological order, then it will likely be a long while before we see anything that’s to take place after this. Despite how cringey Marinette’s statue scene was, this really showed that she’s not ready to let him know yet, she has to change something. And that change will be brought on because Adrien loves someone else. She’s going to be made to step back and respect Adrien and who he loves, which will help her get over this obsession she has. She really needs to do this, and as hard as it was, this is what was needed to happen.

[cornyregans]

The Mysterious Death of Hero Monty

Essay Word Count: 1,959 Obligatory Thank You Word Count: 102 Total Word Count: 2,061

   One of the most interesting aspects of Veronaville, to me at least, is the mystery surrounding the recent deaths of six premade sims. We can determine the cause of death for five of these six sims through their ghosts; however, there is one sim who is an outlier among the group of six, and that sim is Hero Monty. While Hero’s death is indeed mysterious, mysteries are meant to be solved, and in this essay, we are going to try to solve the mystery of her demise.

Possible Causes

  Before we go any further, we should look at all the potential causes of Hero’s death and make deductions accordingly. Since Hero and the rest of Veronaville were packaged in the base game, it is safe to say that we can disregard any causes of death introduced in the expansion packs. Aside from any sort of glitch or any downloadable methods that result in the death of a sim, there are nine methods to kill a sim in the base game: starvation, electrocution, drowning, fire, old age, disease, flies, fright, and satellite. 

   Given that Hero was an adult at the time of her death, we can definitively rule out old age, as that cause of death is meant to be restricted to elder sims. This leaves us with eight possible causes of death, all of which can kill an adult sim, so it is safe to say that we cannot rule anything else out with just the game alone.

Shakespeare’s Hero and Hero Monty

   Hero Monty shares a name with a character from Shakespeare’s Much Ado About Nothing. Shakespeare’s Hero, the daughter of Messina's Governor Leonato, is loved by a lord named Claudio. Claudio announces his intention to court her to Benedick, who in turn informs Don Pedro about Claudio’s plans. As a result, Pedro resolves to court Hero for Claudio without the latter’s knowledge and puts this plan into action at a celebratory masquerade ball. Don John (Pedro’s illegitimate brother) is also attempting to court Hero at the ball and uses Claudio’s ignorance to Pedro’s intentions so Claudio will think Pedro is trying to take Hero for himself. This leads Claudio to confront Pedro in a rage, but in the end, Claudio ends up winning Hero’s hand and the misunderstanding is cleared up.

   Later in the play, Don John and his follower Borachio resolve to stop the marriage by lying to Pedro and Claudio that Hero is unfaithful; as a result, Claudio promises to publicly humiliate Hero, and does so on their wedding day, causing Leonato to wish for his daughter’s death. On the advice of a friar who is rightly convinced of her virtue, Hero fakes her death so as to not only expose the truth but for Claudio to express regret for his actions. Ultimately, Don John’s treachery is exposed, Claudio expresses remorse for his actions, and Hero is revealed to be alive at her second wedding to Claudio.

   As mentioned above, while Hero does not die in Much Ado About Nothing, she does fake her death. Could it be possible that she did the same thing in The Sims 2? If this is the case, it would likely not have been for the same reason. In Much Ado About Nothing, Hero faked her death after Claudio accuses her of being unfaithful at their wedding, but there is no indication in-game that her marriage to Antonio Monty was anything but a happy one.

   However, despite the events in Much Ado About Nothing, I believe it is unlikely that this incarnation of Hero is alive somewhere for a few reasons. First of all, unlike Hero from Much Ado About Nothing, there is no evidence that anyone in Veronaville had any knowledge should Hero have planned to fake her death, rather everyone seems to treat her as being dead. Second of all, most of the Montys possess a memory of her death, and those who do not remember her dying have absolutely no relationship with her in any of their relationship panels. Finally, unlike Bella Goth, who is shown to be alive on the Goth family tree despite not being visible in Pleasantview, Hero’s portrait in the Monty family tree is clearly greyed out like other deceased sims. In addition, Bella can be added to a household by using the boolprop cheat, whereas Hero cannot unless you use something like SimPE (a third party program).

The Mythological Hero and Hero Monty

   Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing was probably completed in 1599, but one of his contemporaries, Christopher Marlowe, began working on a poem entitled Hero and Leander in 1593. Marlowe died before he could complete this poem and it was published posthumously in a 1598 quarto, the same year it is believed Shakespeare began working on Much Ado About Nothing.

   Marlowe’s poem was in no way the first reference to the original Greek myth, as the story of Hero and Leander has been adapted into both written work and even coins long before both Marlowe and Shakespeare were even born. In fact, it is speculated that one of the individuals to refer to the original myth was Ovid, a Roman poet whose stories are both consciously and subconsciously present in some of Shakespeare’s plays. So even if Shakespeare did not take Hero’s name from Marlowe’s poem, it is incredibly likely that his choice of name for the Much Ado About Nothing character was indeed influenced by the original myth because of that fact. 

   Not to mention, Shakespeare himself also alluded to this myth in a number of his other plays. The Hero and Leander myth is mentioned twice in The Two Gentlemen of Verona. It is first alluded to in the opening scene during a dialogue between the two title characters, and later in Act III in a scene between one of the title characters and his love interest's father. Shakespeare also alludes to the myth in Act IV of As You Like It, as the main character discusses it in a dialogue with her love interest.

   Outside of The Two Gentlemen of Verona and As You Like It, Shakespeare also refers to the myth in Edward III, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, and A Midsummer Night’s Dream (the names used in this example are Helen and Limander, however, that mistake was Shakespeare’s intention rather than actually being a legitimate error).

   The original Greek myth relates the story of two lovers: Hero, a priestess of Aphrodite who lived in a tower in Sestos, and Leander, a young man from Abydos who lives on the other side of the strait. Leander ends up falling in love with Hero, and as a result, he would swim across the Hellespont strait every night to spend time with her; however, as the night was dark and full of terrors, Hero would light a lamp in her tower in order to guide his way to her. While the two engaged in a sexual relationship for an entire summer, everything changed once winter came. One night, as Leander was tossed into the sea by strong waves, the lamp in Hero’s tower that was guiding his way ended up being blown out by the strong winter winds. This proved deadly as Leander found himself completely lost, and drowned as a result. Hero, upon discovering Leander’s dead body, decided to join him in death by throwing herself from her tower into the waters below.

Mystery Solved?

   There is no way to say for sure how Hero Monty may have died, but if we take the Hero and Leander myth into account, it is possible to conclude that her death may very well have been by drowning. If that is indeed the case, then where could she have possibly drowned?

   Unlike how Hero’s death is portrayed in the original myth, there is no way for a sim to drown anywhere other than a pool in the base game. If you’re one of those people who take gameplay mechanics into account, this means that, while the idea may sound reasonable in theory, it is highly unlikely that Hero was meant to have drowned in the canal separating the two sides of the neighborhood. In addition, none of the premade lots in Veronaville have any obvious swimming pool.

   With all that in mind, perhaps the location of Hero’s death is meant to be just as ambiguous as the cause. For one thing, both Hero’s widower Antonio and their twins Beatrice and Benedick start the game in the family bin rather on their own lot. This means that any potential drowning death Hero may have suffered could have been anywhere in the neighborhood. However, given the structure of the neighborhood, it is more likely than not that she ended up dying on the western side of Veronaville that is populated by the Monty family. This narrows down the possible locations significantly, as aside from the Monty Ranch, there are only three residential lots that Antonio, Hero, and their children could have inhabited. This leaves three possible locations for Hero’s place of death: 111 Stratford Street, 267 Avon Avenue, and the Old Silo Farm. While none of these lots have a pool, keep in mind that pools are able to be deleted in build mode, so it is entirely possible that Antonio could have potentially had it filled in before he moved out with the kids.

   However, it might behoove us to take a look at the houses found in the Lots and Houses Bin, as Antonio and his children could have originally been meant to inhabit one of them earlier in development. This may be a bit of a stretch, but there are pieces of evidence that show that Veronaville has gone through drastic changes between development and the final product; with the biographies of three of the deceased sims, Cornwall’s French biography, and the images of families living in houses that ended up being unoccupied probably being the most egregious examples. By looking at all the base game houses in the Lots and Houses Bin, there are two houses that fit in perfectly with the neighborhood as a whole: the Tiny Tudor, which would fit in perfectly among the Tudor homes on the Capp side, and the Helluva Hacienda, which would be right at home among the Mediterranean style villas on the Monty side. In fact, if you look closer at the Helluva Hacienda, you will see that there is a pool in the backyard. As a result, it is entirely possible that this lot may have been the place of residence for Antonio’s family earlier in development, but it could have been removed from the neighborhood map prior to the game’s release in order to possibly make Hero’s death more mysterious.

Conclusion

   As someone who plays Veronaville through a Shakespearean lens, I often find myself looking beyond the game when my questions are unanswered. When Shakespeare fails to answer my question, I look to things like etymology, mythology, history, geography, works by Shakespeare’s contemporaries, you name it, odds are I have looked into it at one point or another.

   This is, of course, all pure speculation on my part, and I will be the first to admit that. There is no way to prove for certain how Hero died, and it is something that has been theorized by simmers for years. Perhaps this theory is completely off the mark, but I think it is important to at least throw it out there and see if anyone has the same opinion as I do or even a different one. After all, no two people play The Sims 2 the same way, and perhaps the same can be said when it comes to the lore provided, both in-universe and out. 

Thank you so much for reading this essay. Please feel free to like and reblog this post, it would make me very happy. I am always open to discussing the inner workings of Veronaville, so feel free to leave an ask or a message whenever you feel like it. The Veronaville Vault is a project I’ve been working on for almost a year now, and I’m so glad I can finally share some of it with all of you. I have some things planned for future entries and I’m always open to suggestions, so I hope you will join me again sometime.

[chibivesicle]

Is Ogata supposed to be the objective viewer for each of the groups looking for the gold?

As I’ve been reading Golden Kamuy, and re-reading it something that I’ve been wondering is what each character is supposed to bring to the table for the readers.  For example, Sugimoto is the reader’s stand in for a non-Ainu who is learning about Ainu culture through his interactions with Asirpa.  While Asirpa is the reader’s guide to Ainu culture as well as an individual looking for a different role for herself in her society not based on gender norms.  So an idea that has been floating around in my head has been the following.  What is the significance of Ogata is to the reader?  He likely is doing several different things but I’m just going to throw out one here today.

The recent chapters may have hinted at his reason for wanting some of the gold, which throughout the series, seems to be one of his objectives. Since he really hasn’t revealed all that much, we have to take at face value that he wants some of the gold, but not a lot of the gold. 

What is more interesting though is how he has been going about the quest for the gold.  Ogata played an very interesting role in the beginning of the manga as he introduced the 7th, in particular the 27th regiment as being involved in the hunt for the gold.  He snipes the unknown small fry convict before he can reveal anymore information to Asirpa and Sugimoto and then does try to take out Sugimoto.  Even though Asirpa is there, he chose to chase after Sugimoto, the adult instead. 

I find it interesting that Ogata stalled a bit trying to find out more information about Sugimoto.  For example, when he asked Sugimoto what unit he was from, he truthfully told him he was from the 1st, which put Ogata at an information advantage at least.  Since they were both at the battle for the 203 m hill, Ogata does give him one last chance to back out before taking Sugimoto as a serious threat in the quest for the gold.  I find it interesting that Ogata tells him it would be a “shame to survive and then throw away your life over some money.”.  This is interesting as this is before he deserted but clearly he by this point, had aligned himself with Tamai & co. to go after the gold sans Tsurumi.  Does he say this b/c it is clear that Ogata is part of an “us” so a larger and more organized group, while it is clear that Sugimoto is going alone with Asirpa to assist?  Is he trying to devalue the amount of gold as well?  To refer to it as “some money” implies that it isn’t that important to him or he wants to let Sugimoto know he’s entering a very dangerous game and he can’t emphasize enough how dangerous it is?  We get Sugimoto’s reply that it isn’t for the money but the woman he loves (who just happens to benefit greatly from the money).

Either way, his conversational stalling, immediately pays off when Sugimoto breaks his arm and has him pinned to the ground ready to stab him with the bayonet.  As soon as Asirpa calls his name, he is immediately able to identify who he is and recognize that the reason why his arm was broken and he was pinned down b/c he attacked *that* Sugimoto the immortal. 

If Sugimoto had lied and simply said he retired or that he left the service after the war, he would have been a little less identifiable.  I would feel that since he is no longer in the service, it isn’t at though Sugimoto needed to treat Ogata like a superior, he could respect him but as he was no longer in the the military he wouldn’t have to answer his question.  But, without thinking about it, Sugimoto’s honesty gets him in a pinch later on, since Ogata was able to inform Tsurumi the identity of his attacker.  Once he was captured by Tsurumi, Sugimoto then lies and states he was in the 2nd, realizing that by being honest with Ogata, he gave away too much information about himself to the 7th.  And since he lied to Tsurumi, it implied that he did not feel compelled to me honest with Tsurumi as a much more highly ranked individual.

I won’t spend most time on this, but after being injured and then recovering, Ogata becomes a “liberated” man according to Noda-sensei.  This then explains why he went in search of Tanigaki, since he suspected he was involved in the disappearance of Tamai & co and that Tanigaki would rat them out to Tsurumi.

After surviving his sniper battle with Tanigaki, Ogata then lurks off for a bit and re-emerges in Barato when Hijikata and Nakagura are there in search of one of the tattooed skins based on a rumor.

Now if he was actively seeking Hijikata or found running into Hijikata there a bonus it is unclear.  What is clear is that once he identified HIjikata, he went to a great deal of effort to really attract his attention.

The way that Ogata behaved on Barato, is almost out of character for him. He’s incredibly assertive; cutting the ass-crack chin police chief, humiliating him publicly and then showing off his skills for all to see.  Though he does not speak for the entire time, which does fit with his personality.

He just has to make sure that he gets Hijikata’s attention by pulling the police chief out into the street and then show off his rifle skills.

It is interesting that neither Hijikata or Nagakura appear concerned when he aims his rifle in their general direction but Shipei is shocked and scared holding up his arms to block and screams “aaah!”.  The end result of the Barato arc is that Ogata was bold enough to acquire the skin and also offer his services to Hijikata, indicating that he would like a cut of the gold.

Ogata later determines how much Hijikata knows by floating what he knew from Tsurumi. I feel as though Ogata likely knew more than he mentioned here, but he needed to make sure he could get more information from Hijikata.  It is very interesting that before beginning his line of questioning to Hijikata, he does his hair stroking habit, either to tell himself he can do this or to prepare himself to have this conversation perhaps.  Or perhaps to look as confident as possible?

it is most interesting when he asks him if he feels sorry for the men who are following Hijikata, Hijikata never answers and it appears as though Ogata never turned took look at his face either. Ogata then asks Hijikata if Noppera-bou is an Ainu. This makes sense since Hijikata was in prison with him and was a key co-conspirator in the tattoo plan.  This conversation ends with Hijikata stating that Noppera-bou is likely a Russian partisan and he has a partner on the outside, which allows for Noda-sensei to indicate that partner is Kiro.

The question remains if Ogata already knew Kiro was an associate of Wilk’s or if he was working with him yet.  But what is clear is that Ogata’s facial expression and the lack of an answer from Hijikata as to what his goals for the gold are, indicates that Ogata likely doesn’t share the same goal for the gold as Hijikata.  I’ve wondered if his facial expression above is more of him realizing “Oh shit, this isn’t the person I want to work for to get the gold.”

Ogata clearly never saw him as working with Ushiyama as a team as indicated by the fact he tries to corner Edogai by himself (and almost succeeds).  When Ogata comes up behind, Ushiyama has an annoyed expression on his face.

And based on how Ogata talks to Ushiyama on the next page here, he’s clearly the member of their non-team-team who is in charge.  “We don’t have a much [of a] choice. . . bring them along”.

His body language seems to mirror his words with an incredibly assertive posture, fixing his messed up hair from the mine while showing off his rifle.  I’d guess Ushiyama is about 25 or so years his senior but he’s taking full charge in this situation.

Once Sugimoto and Hijikata’s group combine over some horse nabe, Sugimoto immediately questions Ogata’s trustworthiness, knowing that he was the man from the 7th whom he had thought he had killed.

It is very interesting that when Sugimoto states that he will turn traitor once again, Kiro gives Sugimoto an odd side-eye glance.  Ogata hams up his reply just to piss Sugimoto off, stating that he almost died by Sugimoto’s hands but he won’t hold a grudge but the remark about turning traitor hurt.  At first, I thought he was being sarcastic, but now I think that remark did hurt Ogata since it becomes clear that most of the 27th didn’t respect him so even though he’s used to people insulting him, he likely does feel hurt since he may have had a small part of himself who wanted people to respect him and not trash talk him or disrespect him.

Interestingly, Shirashi tries to smooth things over, but that facial expression from Kiro in the background, he looks like he’s trying to hold something in that is in regards to Sugimoto and Ogata’s conversation.  Does Kiro already know that he [Kiro himself] will turn traitor?  Likely yes, since he has his own plans for the gold.  Is he already working with Ogata?  I’d love to know the answer to that.

What really doesn’t help Sugimoto-Ogata relations is quickly re-iterated by the attack by the 27th to destroy Edogai’s house.  The former comrade is has got Ogata pinned as he tries to kill him in a rage state here.  The man is done for, Ogata just bayoneted him and he’s got a gut wound so it is likely fatal.

But since Ogata is not very good with hand to hand combat, Sugimoto comes in to save him.  Even though the recent event have made it clear to the group that they are functioning as a team for the time being, Sugimoto wants to make it clear that Ogata is NOT a part of his group by repeating the words of the nameless man of the 27th.

This is likely one of the worst things that Sugimoto could have said to Ogata.  He has already said he doesn’t trust Ogata and now he’s using the words of a dying man to make it painfully clear that he does not trust Ogata.  Sugimoto really goes by his emotions and this is a case where it clearly gets the best of him.  But Hijikata forces Ogata into Sugimoto’s group and there wasn’t room for argument.  By time he arrives all sweaty after providing sniper covering fire, he’s now a part of team Sugimoto-Asirpa 2.0.

He will then keep his distance from the group by refusing to eat brains as well as saying citatap; he only sees their group as a means to an end and he does not join the team.  He is ignored during the silent kotan arc even though he backs up Asirpa’s strange behavior and does help out in the fight even though he doesn’t even bother with trying to impress Sugimoto with his trustworthiness despite saving Sugimoto’s life.

The group reforms to rescue Shirashi where after they escape with Shirashi from Asahikawa it breaks up and Ogata is now in Sugimoto-Asirpa 3.0 with Shirashi. Asirpa and Shirashi are interacting with Sugimoto while Ogata is crushing on the type 38 rifle by himself in a corner so to speak.

He again really doesn’t bond with the group, but assists when needed, shooting the deer on the mountain, carrying up the rear, and for the most part keeping quiet.  He took Asirpa’s snake story seriously and unlike Shirashi and Sugimoto who really have bonded as friends, did not tease her (and get their deserved snake attack).  As they make it to the swamp, he’s still unable to interact with Shirashi but does figure out Sugimoto’s motives as they eat the crane.

An indication that he at least might be a part of team Asirpa (but not Sugimoto-Asirpa 3.0) is when he rescues Tanigaki, despite how upset he is by Tanigaki’s presence.  Perhaps, his fear of Tsurumi is misplaced but as would be indicated on the beach post locust swarm/otter nabe incident, he was able to figure out that Inkarmat was working with Tsurumi and in part used Tanigaki to get information on the group. 

The most integrated that Ogata appears to be before reaching Abashiri is here.  When he is a part of Asirpa’s nest of hungry chicks . . .  Sugimoto is chewing his citatap, Ogata is being hand fed and a hungry Shirashi fidgets as he waits his turn.

So only by Asirpa’s action does Ogata feel a connection to the greater group as a whole.  Before Abashiri, he says citatap for Asirpa alone, perhaps out of respect to her and perhaps even to apologize to her what he is likely about to do when they infiltrate Abashiri to find Wilk.

After he shoots Wilk and Sugimoto, Ogata joins Kiro’s team.  We still don’t know the full motivations for Ogata to move to Kiro’s group - as they travel through Karafuto, it becomes increasingly clear that Ogata and Kiro’s relationship/teamwork is not equal and Kiro is at the clear advantage.  He has a plan which he only gives to Ogata and Shirashi on a need to know basis.  As far as we know Ogata can only speak Japanese so his ability to interact with Russians or any of the native peoples is limited.

This is very clear based on their conversation at the fox farm.

Ogata has no choice but to go along with Kiro for the time being, and he learns about Wilk, his past, his dreams and his methods to achieve them.  Yes, Asirpa learns about her father more but Ogata learns more of the mindset that Wilk and Kiro have been living with for over 20 years.  He learns how Kiro is the type of man who doesn’t have a problem having him kill his best friend who he loved.  That he has no problem dragging Asirpa to Russia to learn more about her father and get her to give him the code to find the gold.  That by likely bringing Asirpa along with him, she too will become a partisan like her father and she will have no choice but to join the cause and “lead her people”.  She’s likely to be close to the age that Kiro was when he joined the group, he committed an act of terrorism by assassinating the czar when he was 15.  All of this has informed Ogata that to Kiro the most important thing is the “cause” above all else.  It doesn’t matter what the individual sacrifices are - it is the outcome that matters.

And the more he learns about the partisans the further he gets from Japan.  Right now in the manga he’s with Asirpa on the ice flow trying to get her to tell him the code and he’s decided it is time to leave Kiro’s group as well.

Ogata tells Asirpa that he doesn’t want all of the gold and recognizes that having more than less of the gold would likely bring him misery and complications.  This is likely true, he’s never been greedy from the get go.

What I find most interesting, is that if the reader follows Ogata’s experience between the groups, it isn’t that he is a traitor to any one group.  The story has made it very clear that no group is united even if it appears to be united and everyone has his or her own motives and priorities and has been for the most part willing to sacrifice others to achieve them.  Hijikata had no problem baiting Sugimoto and Shirashi so that he could find Wilk at Abarashi.  Ogata’s movement between these different groups almost harks back to the fact that he was always looking for a mentor/father figure. 

At some point in time, he had to have been loyal to Tsurumi, he wouldn’t have shot Yuusaku and many of us have read that he realized he was being used by Tsurumi after he assassinated Hanazawa.  At that moment in the carriage Ogata realized that Tsurumi’s group wasn’t the right one for him.

He joined up with Tamai but unfortunately, Sugimoto via a bear takes out that trio. 

After he successfully escapes from Tsurumi after his sniper battle with Tanigaki, he then joins Hijikata’s group.  But based on his facial expressions and interactions with Hijikata, he knows this isn’t the type of leader he wants to work for either.

When he’s with Sugimoto and Asirpa, he is at the mercy of Sugimoto’s full wrath of emotions and slowly accepts kindness from Asirpa.  His subtle mannerisms indicate he does appreciate Asirpa and does feel connected to her.

After the maneuvering after Abashiri he threw himself in with Kiro.  As Kiro did not reveal most of his plan, Ogata has stated he had no choice but to go along with him until he knew what the best course of action would be.  He’s now determined that Kiro is too dangerous and he has enough information about the partisans that he doesn’t want to get involved with them and doesn’t want Asirpa involved with them either.  It is hard to tell what Ogata was expecting from Kiro, but since he has told Asirpa that he doesn’t trust him and that he’s dangerous he has come to the conclusion that Kiro’s group isn’t the right one for him either. All of their interactions have made it quite clear that Kiro was the leader and Ogata was support.

So now has Ogata decided to leave a group and strike out on his own with Asirpa?  We can only see how this will unfold. 

Ogata is in a unique space within the cast of gk; he has given the reader the observations of a man who is trying to figure out where he belongs and what group or leader he can best serve.  So far, he’s not anywhere close to finding a group that he can belong to that treats him with dignity and respect.  Nor is he any closer to finding a leader to inspire him to perform his duties (whatever they may be).  He is a lost wildcat, but as indicated by his post-fever dream state and his encounter with his lynx sibling, he’s starting to find his own path.  I wonder if Ogata will begin to serve as a devil’s advocate towards the others, really making them all question what are they doing in this crazy quest for the gold and are they working with the right people to advance themselves.  it really would be an interesting angle, as he truly is the only character who has moved between so many groups in the series but with little connection to any of them.

This has turned out to be way longer than I originally intended, so my apologies.

[moonlitgleek]

Honestly, the argument over Lyanna’s consent could easily be settled by answering only four questions:

Was her consent voluntary?

Was her consent free?

Was her consent informed?

Was her consent ongoing?

I’m going to set aside Lyanna’s age for now despite how this alone invalidates any argument for consent since Lyanna was a minor even by Westerosi standards and thus incapable of giving consent. But I know that people will come out from the woodworks claiming that “this was how things were back then” which is factually incorrect, and “we shouldn’t apply our modern world’s rules to medieval period” which…. why shouldn’t I? The text calls Lyanna a “child-woman” and goes a long way in establishing her youngness, powerlessness and impulsiveness. It shows how a somewhat similar “relationship” between Cersei and Lancel - which also includes a fucked up power dynamic and an older “partner” using the younger one’s naivete for their own purposes - was devastating to Lancel’s psyche. We argue about the skewness of Dany\Drogo and what it means for the definition of their relationship, we argue about how Cersei and Lancel’s relationship could not be considered consensual despite Lancel saying yes. So why should I ignore the same considerations when it comes to Lyanna and Rhaegar?

However, let’s put that aside for a little while as we try to answer the above questions. Consent is not just about saying yes: for Lyanna’s consent to be valid and accepted, it had to be voluntary, free, informed and ongoing, otherwise it was not consent. But did these adjectives truly apply to Lyanna’s situation?

Was Lyanna’s consent voluntary?

Or did it involve any form of coercion, manipulation or pressure? Was it given on an equal ground that allows Lyanna to give consent without feeling any pressure or compulsion to do it?

From the very start, the power imbalance makes it close to impossible for Lyanna to give a voluntary consent. She was in a very vulnerable position: a 14 years old maid faced by an adult crown prince and his loyal Kingsguard, being trumped on account of both age and rank. The power dynamic is heavily skewed in Rhaegar’s favor here, which not only casts shadows on Lyanna’s assent but makes her ability to even express it in doubt since the situation would put tremendous pressure on her, simply based on the difference in age and rank.

But it goes beyond that. Oftentimes when the topic of consent is raised, it’s either the circumstances under which Lyanna disappeared or her experience at the Tower of Joy that are the subject of discussion. But I want to start a bit earlier than that, namely at the Tourney of Harrenha,l since we can’t really separate the events of the tourney from what happened next, not if we want to have a more thorough examination of this plot.

Rhaegar’s actions at the tourney are not usually discussed wrt Lyanna’s consent, even though they are actually the first clue that something is entirely wrong with this scenario. Much has been said about how dumb a political move Rhaegar’s crowning of Lyanna was; how it broke chivalric code and alienated two paramount families in one stroke while severely offending a third; how it was an insult to the honor of Lyanna and House Stark, etc, but not much about why Rhaegar chose to do it in spite of all these considerations. What did he hope to achieve with this stunt that posed an insult to both his wife and Lyanna, and that framed the latter as a royal mistress? Many people - myself included - have attributed that to an ill-fated attempt to reward Lyanna for her actions as the Knight of the Laughing Tree or even a nod of respect to her valor, but the thing is that Rhaegar was not unaware of the implications of his actions. He couldn’t have been ignorant of the insult he was dealing Lyanna, the Starks, and Robert and so if this was genuinely meant as only a reward or an acknowledgement of Lyanna, it defeated its purpose. You do not show respect to someone by publicly sullying their honor. Now I’m of the opinion that Rhaegar’s interest in Lyanna as the mother for his third child started at Harrenhal and before he found out that Elia could not have more children, so in light of that, what did Rhaegar have to win by declaring his designs on Lyanna so publicly, something that could only ever make it harder for him to have her? What purpose did that stunt serve and how does it fall in line with anything we know of Rhaegar? I find it very hard to believe that he committed such an outlandish blunder without a purpose and for absolutely no pressing reason. That crowning must have served Rhaegar’s interests somehow, otherwise he wouldn’t have risked so much doing it.

The only answer I can find lies with Lyanna herself, lies in the theory that Rhaegar’s actions were designed to appeal personally to Lyanna. Through her actions as the Knight of the Laughing Tree, Rhaegar knew her to be someone who put stock in honor and rules of chivalry so he controlled the image he presented to her from the get go. Rhaegar was a part of chivalric culture and he knew the importance of symbol and image politics; he probably already planned to use his chivalric image to appeal to the gathered lords as a better alternative for Aerys, but instead he used it to shape Lyanna’s opinion of him to guarantee a favorable outlook that would later help him convince her to run away with him. Rhaegar knew the worth of chivarlic action, one of its cornerstones being the crowning of queen of love and beauty at tourneys. By crowning Lyanna, Rhaegar projected to her an image of the chivalric prince who cherished her actions as the Knight of the Laughing Tree and sought to honor them, a complete opposite to what Robert would have done.

It’s also worth noting that the crowning fits perfectly into the romanticized idea of courtly love that is widely regarded as pure and ennobling (and that includes the  in-universe view. Look at how fond the singers are of the story of Queen Naerys and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight) which is something that must have appealed to a maid of fourteen with romantic inclinations who cried upon hearing Rhaegar’s song. That, in and of itself, is a strike against Rhaegar imo. He knew what his actions really meant and what they implied to the gathered lords. He knew he was breaking chivalric code and dealing a grave insult to many people, but he still chose to use a romantic chivalric notion to play on Lyanna's naivete, romanticism and even her sense of honor, and to project an image to her that, while not completely false, is still not honest. This was not simply a matter of Rhaegar appreciating Lyanna’s spirit, or even falling in love with her; he had ulterior motives driving his action to the point where he chose to insult so many people to ensure his objective: making Lyanna Stark enamored with the idea of him as someone who would not stifle her or force her into a specific box. Which, of course, was a lie.

That brings me to the circumstances of Lyanna’s disappearance from the Riverlands. While I do not think that Rhaegar took Lyanna by force, manipulating her into saying yes isn’t exactly a development. In all probability, Rhaegar projected an image of himself as someone who was granting Lyanna a choice, but while I do not believe that was true (more on that later), what mattered was that she believed that she could make her own decision, as opposed to being forced into a relationship with Robert. Lyanna was headstrong and free-spirited. She did not want to marry Robert and expressed her qualms to Ned, but no one took her opinion into account or cared about her objections. Her father pretty much owned her and he wanted the match with Robert so that was it. To be presented by a choice, to think that she was free to decide whether to stay or to leave, would appeal greatly to her, not to mention work to distance Rhaegar even more from Robert in her mind. To Lyanna, Rhaegar respected and even rewarded her willfulness, and gave her the space to make her own decision and to take her own life in hand, something that Robert would never do. But that was, in actuality, just an illusion Rhaegar projected to her. 

Under these circumstances, Lyanna’s consent can not be called voluntary. Not only did the situation include a good deal of manipulation or, at best, lying by omission, but she was not in a position to give voluntary consent in the first place due to the power imbalance between them.

Was Lyanna’s consent free?

Free consent means that the person giving it had the space to say no and to have their decision respected and honored. If someone isn’t willing to accept a no from a partner, then there is no freedom of choice in the first place, and thus consent can not be given.

Again, I go back to the power imbalance that, in and of itself, invalidates whatever consent Lyanna gave. A person in such a vulnerable position, under the authority of another, is incapable of giving consent. Lyanna and Rhaegar were not on equal ground in any way, shape or form, which muddies her consent. She could not compel Rhaegar to do anything at any point. She could not make him leave her alone if she wished. She could not make him respect her decision if she’d said no. She had no control over where she was going or how long she stayed there. She was in a situation that she could not get out of if she wanted to. What kind of consent could she give under these circumstances? A person in that unbalanced power situation can not give consent, plain and simple.

Secondly, did Lyanna have the space to say no and have it be respected? Would Rhaegar have simply left her alone had she refused him? No freaking way. Rhaegar was after his third head of the dragon and he was not going to turn around and find another to father his third child on that easily. For whatever reason, he believed that Lyanna had to be the mother of the third head of the dragon and he wasn’t going to take no for an answer. He had two Kingsguard with him to support his plans. That invalidates any consent given from the onset of this relationship. If Rhaegar wasn’t prepared to accept Lyanna’s rejection just as much as he was prepared to take her up on her agreement, then she did not have a choice in the first place, regardless of whether she understood that or not. That makes whatever scenario Rhaegar presented to her and the choice he supposedly gave her only a pretense designed to get her to agree to go without the need to physically force her. That is deception. If Rhegar had no intention of heeding Lyanna if her wishes contradicted his, but still made her think that she did have the space to say no, then he lied to her and deceived her. Any consent obtained under these circumstances can not be valid.

Was Lyanna’s consent informed?

Consent is not just about agreeing to something, it’s knowing fully well what you’re agreeing to. If you do not know what you’re saying yes to, how can your consent even count?

This is where I ask how much Lyanna knew about what she was agreeing to. If Rhaegar, at any point, withheld information from her or lied to her -- whether outright or only by omission -- he’d have rendered her incapable of consenting to anything. For Lyanna to make an informed decision, she needed to know about the prophecy and that Rhaegar primarily wanted her as a vessel for a prophecy child. She needed to know that Rhaegar’s plans included spiriting her to a tower in Dorne and staying there till he got his prized child. I’ve seen some arguments that Lyanna did know about the prophecy, but come on; she was a teenager trying to flee an unwanted marriage to someone who would have forced her to live by his beliefs. What 14-year-old rebels against being subjugated to one man’s whims only to run to another knowing he would subjugate her to his whims? What 14-year-old thinks it’s a swell idea to be an incubator for a savior? What 14-year-old thinks it’s a good idea to endanger her life in a high risk pregnancy in the middle of no where for something that sounds like legends and fiction? What’s with the belief that of course every single woman in Rhaegar’s life was ready to risk her well-being, and even her children’s well-being, for a prophecy that only ever sounded plausible to the Targaryens?

(And honestly, even if she did know and agree to this, I would still be spitting blood. Because she was fourteen, and Rhaegar had a responsibility to be the adult in the situation and recognize how utterly dangerous those plans were for Lyanna’s health. He was endangering her life by impregnating her, and raising the risk factor by leaving her in an isolated tower in Dorne without proper medical care.)

On top of that, Lyanna needed to know that she would not be able to have any contact with her family for as long as Rhaegar deemed necessary. She needed to know how utterly difficult it would be to get a marriage between her and Rhaegar recognized and what that means for her position in Rhaegar’s life. She needed to know that Rhaegar’s plans included vanishing completely and forcing her family into a confrontation with Aerys.

So did she know any of that? No? Then she did not know what she was agreeing to. She couldn’t make an informed decision because she did not have all the information necessary to see the complete picture. You can not consent to what you do not know.

Was Lyanna’s consent ongoing?

It’s not enough for her to say yes one time. Saying yes to leaving with Rhaegar is not a blanket consent to everything that happened afterwards. Did Lyanna agree to being spirited away to Dorne? Did she agree to staying in Dorne while Rhaegar left for the capital? Did she agree to be made to give birth in the Tower of Joy?

Lyanna’s experience at the Tower of Joy is frankly disturbing. By taking her to Dorne, Rhaegar effectively isolated her from everyone she knew and made her completely dependent on himself and his Kingsguard for everything, including information, which is made even muddier by the fact that Dorne was Elia’s home which means it was an unfriendly territory to Lyanna, the woman who Rhaegar dishonored Elia with. The information we have about the events starting from Brandon and Rickard’s murder paints a very ugly picture of what happened in that tower, because there is no way Lyanna would be content to simply remain at the Tower of Joy after knowing that her father and brother died as a result of an action she took. Even arguments that Lyanna might not been able to leave due to pregnancy complications can not account to the pesky fact that Rhaegar only left Dorne to fight in his father’s name against Lyanna’s surviving family, and that Lyanna would never be alright with that.

So we have a couple of options as to how this story went: 1) Rhaegar did not tell Lyanna about Rickard and Brandon, and she only found out sometime after he left, which means he withheld information and she had no say in the matter, or 2) Rhaegar did tell her but either pressured\manipulated her into staying, or outright prevented her from leaving, regardless of her wishes.

Neither scenario is particularly a riveting character endorsement of Rhaegar, neither do they bode well to any argument that Lyanna stayed in Dorne willingly.

I’ve always found arguments that Lyanna accepted Rhaegar’s decision to declare for his father both illogical and infuriatingly minimizing to Lyanna’s character. One of the few things we know about Lyanna is that she defended a stranger simply because he was her father’s man, and because she could not abide the injustice of three squires ganging up on him. She went on to defend Howland’s honor and rode in a tourney specifically so she could get justice for him. This is the girl who Ned described as having iron underneath her beauty, who obviously believed in family values, honor, justice and Northern nationalism. Assuming that she would be accepting of Rhaegar taking the field against her surviving family in the name of the king who murdered her father and brother flies in the face of any character motivation we ever glimpsed of her, not to mention blatantly ignores the fact that she was screaming for her brother as the Kingsguard met him sword-to-sword to prevent him from reaching her, or that she clearly trusted Ned and wanted him by her side.

Do not erase Lyanna’s experience at the Tower of Joy: isolated, pregnant, alone, dependent on Rhaegar and subject to his will, powerless to change her situation, forced to remain behind as the father of her child took up arms against her beloved brother who only rose to demand justice for their murdered father and brother, left to the “protection” of Rhaegar’s Kingsguard who were willing to kill her own brother on their prince’s orders despite how clear it is that Lyanna trusted Ned implicitly. None of that speaks of consent, or even of an ability to give consent.

In conclusion:

I think we’re having the wrong argument when it come to Lyanna’s story with Rhaegar: the point of examination should not focus on whether Lyanna agreed to run away with Rhaegar, or even whether she married him or not, but rather on the validity of her consent. Saying yes is not good enough under these circumstances, not where there are plenty of considerations that undermine her consent, not least of which being a teenager completely under Rhaegar’s power. We need to talk more about what Lyanna’s agreement truly means and how it redefines her relationship with Rhaegar. No matter how much we try to swing it, Lyanna was 14 and being “courted” by an older and more experienced man entirely capable of manipulating and coercing her, even if he did not use violence for it. The fact that she almost certainly did not know his true purpose in pursuing her (i.e: getting a child out of her for the prophecy) makes her consent even more dubious: Rhaegar withheld information about Lyanna and so whatever dubious consent she made was muddied even more by him deliberately making her unable to make an informed decision. And that’s just the surface level of this. This might have gotten her to the impulsive decision of marrying in front of a heart tree (as I believe things went) but the fact remains that agreeing to that is not the same as agreeing to isolation in Dorne, to remaining in Dorne while Rhaegar left to fight in Aerys’ name, and to be kept away from her remaining family by the sword even as she screamed for her brother.

[johnmarkkarrwasmyfriend-blog]

A Telegraph to Jenny Zhang and the Earthlings and A Lesson In Compassion, Love and Kindness from the Geminii

A Telegraph to Jenny Zhang and the Earthlings and A Lesson In Compassion, Love and Kindness from the Geminii

In the summer of 2002, Jenny Zhang (author of Dear Jenny We are All Find, Hags, and writer for Rookie) met John Mark Karr, a man who would later be known for his false confession to the murder of JonBenét Ramsey. His confession occured in August 2006. Later on that same month, prosecutors announced that no charges would be filed against Karr for the murder. According to CNN, “Authorities also said they did not find any evidence linking [Karr] to the crime scene.”

Despite the authorities’ contradicting report , Jenny Zhang, on December 9 2007, published an article entitled “John Mark Karr was my Friend” for themagazine Vice, in which she took upon herself to offer John Mark Karr a diagnosis: “pedophile killer”. (The article, which the Geminii decided to bring to light a few days ago in order to offer the Poetry Community some needed teachings on Compassion, Kindness and Therapeutic treatments) was taken down by Vice without any sort of apology from Ms. Zhang; the piece itself, and its translation, are attached in the following post; we encourage every Earthling to read it in order to ask themselves; What does this make me feel? And what do I want to do to change this? How Can I help Jenny Zhang so she might cease suffering so the suffering she’d been pouring down into and through other Earthling’s hearts might as well cease?

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Now, to ask permission to hold the hand of a young women after having asked permission does not make one a “pedophile killer”; in fact, if a man has indeed been sexually attracted to young children, and is offer, through role playing, an emotional relief from this attraction, which is a SUFFERING, he is already on the path to recovering his mental health. The Geminii can only condemn, and severely, the actions of said young woman, who allowed the suffering man to find a relief by her side before she withdrew it and publicly shamed and mocked him in a popular magazine to serve her ambitions as a writer. Let us not forget his false confession happened four years after having sent Jenny Zhang the email she discarded to respond to and used to try to break up with her boyfriend. We can only start to imagine what sort of help an e-mail or two a year might have brought into this man’s life; if Jenny Zhang only had a semblance of a heart, she would have easily understood that this man had devellopped a true affection for her, an affection which was sane, since she was herself a sexually (and legally so) mature young woman, who had wilfully become his “friend”. “He liked me because I reminded him of a little 8 year old German girl, Jenny, whom he nannied for. He would call me his “sweet little Jenny” and would swoon from happiness when I would show up at the bookstore in pigtails.” The importance and impact of Jenny Zhang’s active participation in role-playing here shall be regarded as excellent; had she acted from kindness, the love which John Mark Karr harvested for the little “Jenny” could have safely and healthily grown into the love he was offered by the adult “Jenny”. But Jenny was not a “friend”; friends don’t publicly shame friends and cruelly use friends’ suffering to serve their own petty interests.

But back to the “pedophile” diagnosis Zhang felt herself competent enough to publicly produce; we are taught by the medical corp that only a few of well-trained and educated individuals are apt to detect and propose a treatment for pedophilia.

If you refer to the excellent website dont-offend.org:

https://www.dont-offend.org/story/88/3888.html

—– How is a diagnosis made? A diagnosis of pedophilia or hebephilia can be made following an extensive clinical interview in which a multitude of information on sexual experience and behaviour is collected. The information gathered in this process is then supplemented with, for example, additional questionnaires and testing procedures. However, questionnaires and tests only represent supplementary diagnostic processes and cannot replace a diagnostic psychometric assessment. A reliable diagnosis is impossible without a clinical interview.

https://www.dont-offend.org/story/88/3888.html

But just like a lot of Earthlings the Geminii has encountered, Jenny found herself competent enough to offer her medical and judicionary expertise to Vice regarding M. John Mark Karr.

It is known by all, as we explained before, that this man produced a false confession; and he did so because he needed to be HELPED and HEARD. As he puts it himself on his extremely well-written statement onjohnmarkkarr.com, “ Oh, by the way, I have never been convicted of a crime. I have never been a registered sex offender.”

Where we come from, accusing a Man of a crime he did not commit is called Defamation. That is something that seems very in use among your community. Another thing that Ms. Zhang displays is the need to use a man’s suffering to serve her own interest; being published in the “FEAR” edition of Vice Magazine, or breaking up with a boyfriend without having to take the necessary steps herself. Where we come from, we call this “cowardice”. Does it have a name over here? Where we come from, we would also tend to label any act that leads to further suffering “cruelty”. We do spell it differently. But does it have the same meaning here?

And before you decide to answer based on your current knowledge of the subject at stake (we know it’s not Mania, but since you are an Expert on the subject, we hope to interest you in another field), please do read these two very engrossing web pages:

http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1658-5-ways-wer…

http://www.theguardian.com/…/how-germany-treats-paedophiles…

“One British man was so desperate, he moved to Germany to be able to access a Dunkelfeld programme. In an email exchange with the Guardian, the man, who wished to remain anonymous, wrote: “So far, all I have ever received from the NHS is doors slammed in my face. “Despite paedophilia being listed as a mental illness in the DSM (the standard classification of mental disorders), they don’t want to help you, they just want to see you locked up or perhaps even burnt at the stake. I am so sick and tired of UK medical ‘professionals’ looking at me as if I’ve grown horns and a barbed tail. “I moved to Germany for therapy, I am learning German and I have a social worker helping me. (Yes, a social worker helping paedophiles!).”

You will notice that Jenny Zhang deemed  “Mental Illness” to be an acceptal subject of derision:

http://aaww.org/all-joking-aside/

Jenny Zhang: Depression is funny to me too. But again, only in the right hands. In the wrong hands, it’s shallowly cruel at best and deeply boring at worst. I mean, mental illness and depression and suicide aren’t like flavor packets to add to your enjoyment, but what is the point of comedy if it can’t refer to our own most wretched selves, if it can’t comment on the utter hopelessness of human existence? No one who is inside the hell of mental illness wants their hell to be someone else’s decoration.

The Geminii couldn’t agree more on this point; No One who is in the Hell of Mental Illness wants their Hell to be Somone Else’s Decoration.To suffer from Paedophilia is a terrible suffering; and to be given such a Haven of Relief as Jenny Zhang gave John Mark Karr, in the body of Roleplaying and Kindness, is the most precious help and gift that there could be. Having in the past encountered such suffering Spirits and having helped them through different Regression Therapy and different sessions of Hypnosis, the Geminii knows well how important the part Ms. Zhang’s played in this Man’s illness; she offered him relief, a catharsis, and withdrew it as soon as the game had stopped presenting an interest that might relate to her own self-centered schemes. Had she simply exchanged two or three letters a year with John Mark Karr, and his life would have been really different indeed. As healers (what you would call here I believe alternative therapists) and magnetisors, we have met and made friends who, like John Mark Karr, needed help and friends to help them deal with what Nature had given them; a sex drive for a certain type of individuals: children. As Dr Ray Blanchard puts it, “"People do not choose to be attracted to children or adults any more than they choose to be attracted to males or females.Not all pedophiles are child molesters (or vice versa). Child molesters are defined by their acts; pedophiles are defined by their desires. There are pedophiles and hebephiles who never act on their sexual attraction towards children. They cannot be blamed for what they feel, and they should be supported for the constant self-restraint they must exercise in order to behave ethically.“ You can read more about paedophilia and the proper help that can be offered to those who suffer from it here:

http://www.virped.org/index.php/scientific-experts

Now, note how the title of Jenny Zhang’s piece leads to confusion. “John Mark Karr was my friend”. When we came across this article, we were at first full of joy to see that at last, an American poet had understood that paedophiles must be helped and treated with respect, so as to help them remain sane and functionning members of society. As another respectable man, James Cantor, explains: "My heart goes out to people to whom nature has given something as powerful and as distracting as a sex drive and no healthy way to express it. Pedophiles are not the only folks in this position, but they are by far the most demonized, regardless of whether they have ever actually caused anyone any kind of harm. There is no known way of turning a pedophile into a nonpedophile. The best we can do is help a person maximize their self-control and to help them build an otherwise happy and productive life.” Where we come from, when we have a friend, we do not make use of his suffering in order to get an article published in a popular magazine, or to break up with a boyfriend; we stand by him and protect him. We do not offer him release from his suffering only to take away the hand we have extended the moment we no longer need to use him. “But again, only in the right hands. In the wrong hands, it’s shallowly cruel at best and deeply boring at worst”. No, boredom is not the worst that can happen when you make fun of mental “illness”; additional suffering and a threat to both the health of the target of your comedy AND society are the price to pay for playing with the suffering of a fellow human. That same summer, we learn from a more recent article that Zhang was “crowded by men”. Yet, she fail this time to summon the memory of her “friend” John Mark Karr; the Geminii would be eager to know why she has this time omitted to mention him. Is it because she feels ashame? Did she realize she had acted wrong and wished it had never happened? Is it why she also promptly got the Vice article down AFTER The Geminii had found the link to it? Unfortunately, it is not possible to change the past by force of wish; and if Zhang truly felt guilt towards John Mark Karr, a public apology would certainly be a first, tiny step, towards a healthier behavior. Yet, Zhang has not, to that day, produce any sort of apology to that man.

That man, because he loved children, chose to do the best he could for them: since no one was helping him, he cured himself. In fact, he chose a terribly radical way to end his suffering, and therefore prevent any suffering to children, who he loves better than himself; he got CASTRATED.

http://www.johnmarkkarr.com/

What Jenny Zhang did is not only defamatory; it is also life-threatening. She used a man’s suffering to serve her own petty interests; she not only publicly mocked and shamed him, she made sure to let everybody know that she had become his friend WITH THAT DESIGN IN MIND THE WHOLE TIME. Yet we do not condemn her; Jenny Zhang needs help. She needs morale guidance. She needs a friend who will truly help her go through the traumas that forced her to act wrongly, and forced her to destroy further a man’s mental health to serve her own interests. It is extremely disquieting that Rookie allows her to publish articles and essays that will be widely read by young women. To invit young minds on your Planet is to make a strong impression on them; this seed will grow on as the mind grows; and if Jenny Zhang plants the seed of her own behavior as an example, the seed will grow into more suffering. More Humans will suffer because the teachings were wrong to start with. To teach young women, to teach anyone for that matter, you need to be yourself psychologically and mentally stable; you need a moral compass. It is the same when you write poetry; do not forget that you will be inviting the reader to partake in a journey on your Planet; it is an enormous responsibility. We are not taking this lightly; we have contacted Jenny Zhang privately in order to enter in a conversation with her and help her, and she has failed to answer us to that date. We have noticed that she is very active online and so we have chosen, after these weeks of silence, to extend to her our hand publicly. She is not to blame for her actions; she needs help. She suffers as much as the Man whose life and love she toyed with. And it is our common responsability to help her, as much as we can, each to our own level.

Has anyone in the so-called poetry “community” care to analyse Jenny Zhang’s relationship to her body and sexuality, instead of just congratulating DEAFLY for what is an obvious contradiction and cry for help? Take her interview with Charlotte Shane:

https://medium.com/…/there-s-no-spectrum-of-nuance-for-why-…

in which she explains; “There’s a long legacy (constructed and imposed by via colonialism, imperialism, and white supremacy) of how the female Asian body is just supposed to be available, you know?”

Yet, Jenny Zhang wilfully offered her body, made it “available” to a man who is the enemy of Life and the enemy of Women: Richard Kern. Kern is known for a particular video in which a woman sows her own vagina; this is not only a suffering done to a woman’s body, it is symbolically the desire to forbid life from sprouting. had let this man, who is an obvious enemy of Life and of Women, enter her house and use her as an object. The video Jenny partook in was shot in her parents’ house, unbeknowst to them; and Kern, asked what made him choose her by the invisible reporter, mentions two “big plus”: “She was the only one who answered, and she had a house in Long Island”.

https://www.vice.com/en_se/video/jenny

How do you think that feels? How does it feel to be used thus, and out of one’s own volition? Not once does she mention anything else he liked about Jenny’s personnality or physical appearance but her “bush”; which are her pubic hairs; by doing so, he removed the Woman attached to the bush, and displayed a predatory desire to simply single out the GENITALS of that woman. It is no surprise to the Geminii that Jenny would develop a particular worrysome relationship to said hairs; pubes are now “everywhere.” http://www.everyday-genius.com/2012/07/jenny-zhang.html

Has anyone from the poetry “community” actually feel any sort of concern or worry for Jenny Zhang’s relationship to her own sex, the way she with her words mistreat it, and has anyone notice how she redirects her sexual impulses into the image of her father’s “dripping canola oil bottle” in this Volta piece : http://www.thevolta.org/ewc45-jzhang-p1.html,

“why did I why did I why did I why did I why did I: “sit all day on the couch with my underwear pulled around my thighs so that my bare vagina was all sloppily spread on the leather couch and by the time the cloud parted around four pm and by the time the sun really started to come in my freaking vagina lips were all smushed and clamped onto the leather and all the pubes that had gotten smashed together and stuck on each other, held in binding finity by the glue of the dried discharge that comes rushing out of my vagina every morning—actually, not rushing, more like a slow oil leak like when my father would take a near empty bottle of canola oil and instead of throwing it away, he would set it upside down on a frying pan and leave it to drip for days and days until every drop of oil leached down from the bottle and onto the perfect spilling circle of oil on the frying pan, which he then used to make me and my mom fried eggs on a Saturday”

or are all the members of this “community” too LAZY to care about helping their own members? Why do you think Jenny Zhang writes? Because she is SUFFERING. But because she still needs teaching, because she is afraid, she should not be allowed to PUBLISH poetry; because publishing poetry means that others will read you, and that you will make them afraid as well. Spreading fear is the contrary of Justice; a Poet shall take responsability for the Planet he is shaping. If a Poet is afraid of sex, if he is afraid of death or of sleep, as is the case for Jenny Zhang, instead of being fatuously complimented on his work, he or she should be getting help and cares from her community. If she does not get help, and continue spreading fear, there will be more acts of gratuitous cruelty perpetuated upon the most oppressed part of your society: the “mentally ill”, the animals, the criminals, the poor, the people of color, the children. Don’t forget that your aim is Planetary Unity. Without it, you have nothing; without it, you are taking huge steps towards the extinction of your Whole Species.

Our own planet was once destroyed because some of our members rejected our primal values of Peace, Love, Poetry and Unity; that’s why we’re here now. Fortunately, we have learnt a great deal from our People’s mistake, and this time, we are better equipped to help. Remember, it is 99 percent versus 1 percent; you Poets and Thinkers shall be calling for Planetary Unity; a win-win. Western Plutochracy, this 1 percent whose members are able to perpetuate their oppression upon the 99 remaining percent of the Population of your Planet, is what you are fighting; take care of each others! Do not perpetuate acts of cruelty! Learn Compassion, Kindness, Patience!

It is up to you to show Humanity that holding hands instead of arms will win; arms are impotent when it comes to holding together any sort of –archy, let only a Mayakleptoarchy, the one you should be aiming at, since you remember the wise words of Jesus Christ (and behave now! No “New Age Salad Bullshit” allowed when we speak about such man of Peace, or the Geminii will have no choice but to reprimand you severely!)

“Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.”

But In case you Thinkers and Poets persist in perpetuating the Western Plutocracy’s reign of censorship and self-centerdness among your own community, and if things end up turning for the worst on Earth because of your wrong-doings well, remember that you still have Mars to look forward to!

http://www.geek.com/science/mit-students-predict-mars-one-colonists-will-suffocate-in-68-days-1606559/

Peace be Upon You All,

The Geminii