#and rip wild bc of obvious reasons lmfao

[nell0-0]

Surrender

[thestarminstrel]

post editing note: holy fuck this got long so it's getting a keep reading tab LMFAO

williams just really s u c k s in this volume and i??? do not know if it's bc srb fucked up her character so bad that even williams's creator fucked up or what. truly am just so angry about it in all types of ways

yes! i think he's def the type to not be open about what he's feeling with his friends. so it makes sense that he's forcing a smile. but remember when in redemption aiden found out that harvard has a date with marcel?

or when nick in rivals during the seiji&jesse match upon seeing robert&jesse, gets this moment?

or even when kyle in redemption gets three pages to explain the background of his relationship to jesse?

the reason i bring these all up is because pacat has given comicbook real estate to so many moments that aren't nichoji OR nick/seiji by themselves. i don't have vol 1-4 on my phone so i can't check but i'm sure there's more from earlier on in the series. pacat and jo are willing to set aside time and pages for us to see the personal reactions of characters like nick (obv) but also aiden and kyle (who, as much as i LOVE him, wasn't even a character we cared about till redemption). why does eugene, there since the early issues, not get even a page by himself?? why do we have to assume he's staying strong for nick? for his team? idk i just think it's ridiculous.

if eugene was the main character of fence, i SO would not have him tell momma labao that he's off the team till much later when he's at the very end of what he can take. bc yeah, his mom worked hard to get him where he is and he doesn't want to disappoint her (and she would ofc assure him that he could never disappoint him). but eugene isn't the main character so instead i gotta grumble about the character arc eugene COULD have. but anyway, i do agree with you on that! but i don't think pacat cares enough about him to even remember that eugene has a support system in his family lmao

him not having a reaction there makes sense i agree- and i think the one he did have makes sense given the situation (though i have my thoughts on what bobby said but i won't detail them here). it's kind of, as i detailed above, that eugene doesn't get any sort of page space to have some emotions in private. everything we know about eugene -- how he feels, how he reacts to other people, what he thinks -- is all in the context of other characters. it just feels like basic courtesy to a character who has been there since early issues to let him have emotions outside of other characters. so i'm upset with this sequence because i think this subdued reaction is all we're going to get because eugene doesn't exist outside of the fencing team and its adjacents (which? RIP KALLY AND TANNER??? they really got plot relevance in vol 1-3 and that's IT). maybe i'm just not making sense but it feels so??? wild to me??? that eugene doesn't get one damn panel where we see him by himself, processing this by himself.

YEAH LIKE COME ON NICK WHAT IN THE WORLD 😭😭😭 i just can't spin this in any positive light on nick like that was just Terrible Friend Behavior. i wish i had your optimism that eugene will get proper character exploration in 2025 but i just. really doubt it. it's so obvious to me he's a second thought to fence (i.e. ALL OF REDEMPTION???, 0 eugene POVs in srb's stuff and marketing). i don't think pacat even....cares enough about him outside of comic relief and to make nick look better. i have a feeling that next issue is going to be jesse, seiji, & nick centric with maybe some haiden development/resolution as a sidebar. i would be highly surprised if eugene gets mentioned in a way that isn't comedic relief or to support the kr team. basically, this is all we're getting on eugene for long shot. hopefully i'm wrong but at this point, fool me once shame on you but fool me twice shame on me lmao.

anyway, thank you for letting me blabber further about this guy. sorry about the paragraphs in response ajfhf i always have more to say than i think i do 😭

don't very often come into the tag to post my thoughts unprompted, but finished challengers and. eugene.

what did pacat do to him.

i already wasn't expecting great things just based on the preview where eugene, my poor boy, just gave a weak thumbs-up at getting benched. but i had faith and hope as foolish as it was.

like, you're telling me that eugene labao who spent years working to get on the fencing team, every year told his mom "this will be the year", and gave a training camp his all just. gives a forced smile at being booted off the team for state?? what?? if pacat wanted to go with a eugene that cares more about the team than his personal resume, fine. okay. but eugene is allowed to be more upset. he should be. he was given everything he dreamed of by williams saying that they could have two reserves, and now it's gone. i don't care how much a team-player you are, that's devastating. especially as a high school junior (in america and australia i GUESS). if you want to go to college for fencing, i imagine the state competition is a great way to get scouted. also, you miss out on fencing with your teammates for the last or second-to-last time. getting benched as a freshman sucks but you got some more years in your high school career. but eugene's a junior, this is his first year on the team, so now he's fencing state maximum once. that's just a cruel stab in the back by williams, genuinely. he should have been given time to be upset onscreen whether it was privately or with friends.

which then, what the fuck williams. you literally said that you could have two reserves- that you FOUGHT for two reserves- and all the sudden eugene can't compete. i never did high school fencing and maybe things are different in australia, but that seems a little ridiculous to me. like wtf did the higher-ups tell her? "yeah you can have two reserves for one competition but that's it" ???????????????? did pacat have an experience like this or something bc i have no clue how that's a logical train of thought a high school sports organizer can have. i will admit that one could argue she's competitive and wants to win. like sure but then why have a second reserve. could she not decide and was always planning to cut nick or eugene depending on who did better at the camp? what kind of coach is that?? none of the other coaches did that - not even donati and she is neck to neck with williams in this rivalry. it doesn't matter how much she wants king's row to have this gold medal- if williams was intentionally doing any of this, uncaring of whether or not she hurts one of the fencing boys, she should not be a coach actually. period. again, i love early fence williams. but oh my god the way she handled this was so bad.

which then brings me to: what is the point of eugene.

i love eugene, he has been one of my favorite characters since 2020 when i first read volumes 1-3. he is one of the reasons why i get so excited about fence and makes me so happy as a character. but honestly? you could cut eugene out of fence and nothing would change. i know he's not haiden or nichoji, but he was put there for a reason that i think pacat forgot. he never has any signficant screentime unless it's to be comedic relief or be a supporting character to nick, the other "underdog" on the fencing team. i really do hate to say it, but reading challengers really made me wish pacat had written out eugene sooner or not written him at all. he's not treated well as a character, and at this point, i don't understand why eugene is even in this story.

another point i want to make is nick. what the hell is wrong with nick. you're telling me that the same nicholas "zero" cox who was about to give up his scholarship and chance to fence so that eugene, a guy he barely knew at the time, could finally be on the team is the same nicholas who only says "but coach--" when eugene gets kicked off the team? that is a terrible friend. i'm not saying nick should have said "i'm not going to state if eugene isn't!!" but he should have called williams out on it, found eugene later and say "dude i'm so sorry this sucks" -- literally ANYTHING!!! but no, nick bever acknowledges it outside of this panel and is too busy at state apparently to notice eugene being bummed about, you know, not fencing with him. it's so, insane to me that nick became this person that doesn't bother checking in on his bro. that tells me he's more concerned about fencing and seiji - which to each his own but i would drop anyone who did me like that. can't even manage a "how r u doing" text what the actual fuCk. i can not stress enough how much i do not like this nick right now.

in conclusion: i need eugene to have a good cry with his mom or his bros about this bullshit and to eat so much good arroz caldo. please save my son from the narrative, it keeps being mean to him :(((

[hackedmotionsensors]

Hey I feel like you’ve already answered this but what are some of your favorite iron man or Captain America comics and why? What story lines would you recommend? I’m curious about the more modern stuff. What’s some of your fav comic artists when it comes to marvel?

OKAY SO. 

holy shit this got long so UNDER THE READ MORE WE GO

This is always kind of a hard question to answer because I personally have not read everything in regards to either Iron man or Captain America. I’ve read the Tales of Suspense stories a lot because I keep trying to start over from the very beginning. And that’s not always helpful if you just wanna dip your toes or give Iron Man/Cap a go.

So what I CAN tell you is here’s what I did when I was first getting into comics around 2012.

I went to Borders/Barnes and Noble and a I read a bunch of the compilations they had in the store. Someone has already done the work FOR you so its really easy to just pick up a book and read from there. 

I started out with Invincible Iron Man  (I’m gonna link to Amazon but I suggest not buying from them because Bezos is a demon [comixology is owned by amazon as well but it is a convenient app]) 

Marvel has its own comics app but if you also read and pay for other comics its not ideal. There are places to “read comic books online” and for older stuff I definitely do this now but for newer comics I’ll try to pay for them especially if its indie. Support indie comics!!! 

Anyway. Invincible Iron Man. A polarizing story in terms of Iron Man lore. But its definitely an easy one to get into and read especially if you’re coming in from MCU and are just testing things. You don’t necessarily need to know all of his history but it covers the basics. 

Next I’d try Demon in a Bottle It’s the original alcoholism arc. A must read for general Tony’s lore. This isn’t the one where he ends up a hobo on the street where Cap helps him escape from a burning building. But this is where he goes off the rails the first time. Bethany Cabe is his current girlfriend and tries to help him. And he kind of recovers. I’m not sure this is exactly a FAVORITE but it has a lot of the important shit for Tony. His temper is something that doesn’t get talked a lot about I think but he DEFINITELY has one. The art is very..........lol its not BAD per say but its also not like wow what gorgeous art. 

Another important Tony lore is Armor Wars So you wanna read the first few times Tony and Steve fight about REAL SHIT. This is it. This is the classic story where he realizes his tech is being used by bad guys and HE’S THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN STOP THEM NO CAP NOT EVEN YOU BECAUSE YOU’RE A GOOD GUY AND I MIGHT HAVE TO GET DIRTY. It has the classic Steve sitting in a dark room waiting for Tony to come back with his date and then throwing his shield at Tony going “I don’t want your trash”

It also has a lot of good Tony being in a morally grey area. *chef’s kiss* 

And then basically read all the fun stuff with Kurt Busiek in Vol 3 (This isn’t an amazon link but the marvel database so you know roughly where to start) 

VOLUME THREE HAS SUCH HITS LIKE

The Sentient Armor: Tony accidentally kills Whiplash in a lightning storm. The Armor comes to life. The armor falls in love with Tony and WANTS TO BECOME ONE WITH TONY. Tony does not want this. Tony is beat up and kidnapped and taken by the armor to a deserted island. The Armor is like Tony I love you so much GET IN ME NOW. Tony is about to die from a heart attack. The armor RIPS ITS HEART OUT AND SHOVES IT INTO TONY. Bye Tony I love you now we’re one forever. RIP

Tiberius Stone’s 2 arcs (they’re not in consecutive order but they’re both hella gay): Tony’s old boarding school friend shows up again and is a TV mogul and is DEFINITELY NOT Slandering Tony in the press or blowing up his buildings or framing him for MURDER oh my god Tiberius is a pain in the ass and we definitely boned down as teenagers but he would never frame me for MURDER but his TV devices that seep into your brain like the boob tube thing from Batman Forever are pretty suspicious. Oh no Tiberius IS a bad guy and he got me naked (why?) and hooked the both of us up to the TV machine and now we’re trapped in his horny tv dream why am I dressed like Alice in Wonderland???  ALSO HE SLEPT WITH MY GIRLFRIEND!!!!??

(This is why I will FOREVER get upset that Killian in Iron Man 3 isn’t Tiberius Stone. He IS LITERALLY FOLLOWING THE TIBERIUS STONE PLAYBOOK INCLUDING THE PHYSICAL LOOK WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE FEIGE YOU OWE ME MONEY!!!!)

Also at the beginning of Vol 3. Tony gets the absolute holy hell bejesus shit beat out of him. And that lasts for a WHILE and seeps into the Avengers Vol 3 (which you should also read its fun and I like that George Perez actually tries to make people look ethnically diverse but also you can tell Clint from Cap)

There’s also a part in vol 3 where Monica from FRIENDS shows up at a party and that’s a wild thing that happened.

But basically I think you can start just about anywhere with Iron Man and have a good time if you’re a deep Tony fan. He has a lot of great stories and its why he’s my favorite. Even this last run with Slott I still KIND OF LIKE ANYWAY??? bc its Tony. Its not always written to what a lot of long standing Iron Man fans would say is canon but I mean.....he’s got 57 years worth of comics behind him so he’s bound to change here and there. He was once a super villain, died, brought over as a teenager from an alternate timeline, and then merged with another Tony I forget the details but its silly lol

Side universe reading Iron Man Noir, Ultimates (Hickman’s run is very fun but also Ultimates 1 and 2. DO NOT READ ULTIMATUM IT IS GROSS, I HAVE READ IT FOR YOU ALMOST EVERYONE DIES ITS GROSS.

Ultimates is literally half of the basis for the MCU. Don’t read Ultimates Iron Man tho. Not only is it written by a creep its also extremely stupid and doesn’t even really make sense in terms of what happens later in Ultimates. It basically gets RetConned immediately.

Also Ultimates universe has Gregory Stark. Tony’s fun evil twin brother who for some reason is blonde. I can’t really give you a specific story to read with Ultimates because its the most god awful confusing universe to try and find stories from so I literally don’t even remember. I’d check an Ultimates fan blog for that.

AS FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA.

I love Steve Rogers. I really do. I think he’s a fun character. B U T. His comics for me can be very boring. He has some great arcs as someone who is supposed to be a representation of what a GOOD AMERICA can aspire to or whatever. But America often times SUCKS A LOT (our current times being very obvious). Cap definitely fights for what he believes and so that’s why he often takes off the garb of Captain America and runs around in a slutty v neck and a cape as Nomad. Or when he comes back from the dead and his BFF is the new Cap (WITHA  KNIFE) and wears the sexy Secret Avengers uniform. Very sexy. We stan the Colonel Rogers uniform very much. But his early comics are a lot of “OH MY GOD I KILLED BUCKY ITS ALL MY FAULT BUCKY!!!!! RICK JONES PUT ON BUCKYS CLOTHES THIS ISNT CREEPY I PROMISE”

A GREAT run in Avengers is the Cap’s Kooky Quartet or as I call Cap Joins the Baby Sitters Club. This goes WAYYYYYY back to Avengers 17 

It runs for a very good while before Giant-man and Wasp come back because Giant Man can’t shrink back down lmfao idiot. But its a lot of fun and establishes Cap as being a really good leader even tho he’s thrown into the hot seat because he was out on a mission and everyone else was like “We’re taking a vacay bye Cap. Good luck with the kids” *John Mulaney doing Andy Cohen impression* HUH WHAT WHY

I have no idea what to Rec really lol I know @sineala is part of a SteveTony 616 discord and they do readings every month(?) of either very SteveTony based arcs or specifically Steve or Tony arcs. But I think they have a better grasp of Steve stories than I do.

I would say most recently the run with Mark Waid and Chris Samnee as the artist is a VERY good read. The story is pretty nice and dry lol but the art. Holy shit.

I know there are a bunch of artists that really REALLY get Cap but Chris Samnee is probably my number one favorite Cap artist. Even his sort of retro style works with Cap SO WELL. And I like Mark Waid’s writing. Or at least I don’t think I’ve ever been really mad at it like with Dan Slott or Gillen (We will never forgive for what he did to Tony’s backstory and taking Maria from him) lol

Uh...but as far as I could tell the entire run where Bernie is his girlfriend is VERY good. She first shows up in Captain America 247 . Cap is an illustrator on the side (or as his main job) and man what a dope. His art habits are worse than mine like get a desk Steve. But this arc through Bernie goes through a lot of Steve being kind of stuck in the past and not knowing how to embrace the modern or future and Bernie is there being the coolest fucking chick in the world who’s studying to be a lawyer, watches Wrestling, listens to Bruce Springsteen (I think lol I forget), dunks on Cap for being a weirdo old dude. Very put together woman of the 80s. She proposes to Cap and because I think the writers changed he’s like I HAVE TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY BYE. 

This isn’t on any of the main timelines but its a good read Captain America Man Out Of Time. Basically Cap coming to grips with the future and realizing the past sucked ew. lol Also he listens to Radiohead which Tony gives him a personal concert for because of course he does.

And then of course there’s this fucking TOME of a story Captain America: The Winter Soldier .

Im gonna sound a little negative but I don’t mean it against anyone’s favorite but I have the most exhausting time trying to read this story. I’ve tried at least three times lol. I think maybe Brubaker’s weird obsession with the Cold War (Remember when he called people who were yelling at Slott for being a creep a ‘Bunch of Commies’) is just so fucking heavy handed that I can’t personally get through it. I would much rather watch the movie.

HOWEVER. There’s good old Bucky coming back from the dead. Natasha. Sam Wilson. Sharon Carter. All big players in this story. So uh lol good luck with this one. If you’re also a Bucky fan this is a must read but as I only peripherally like Bucky I don’t care to read this one. 

So I’d check out this arc.

Also a personal fave of mine is 

It starts here on Captain America 402 . Its the best story IN THE WORLD. ITS SO ICONIC. NOTHING CAN COMPETE. I LOVE CAPWOLF SO MUCH lol