#and like. ohh my god it’s so gay. it’s not even subtext to me it’s just text

[asmidge]

Thinking about Randal Graves ouggh I’m sick. screaming crying etc etc I’m going to put my head through a wall thinking about him

[comicteaparty]

March 21st-March 27th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from March 21st, 2020 to March 27th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What are some background details you know about your story that won’t ever actually come up in the main narrative?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Oh boy... So many in Whispers of the Past... The first—which I believe I've mentioned before—is that some of the characters' sexualities never really get brought up outside of some subtle subtext. For example, Ryukou is asexual aromantic, but he is married, and he honestly doesn't even know that being aroace is a thing. His wife, Maya, is bisexual, and her attraction to women is hinted at, but not explicitly said. The second background detail that will likely never make it into the main narrative is Kelan's grief after SPOILER the death of his wife. END SPOILER The story takes place years after this event, and yet he still hasn't completely recovered. That being said, it just never really comes up in the narrative, again, outside of subtext. Thirdly, Izrekiel actually has a dependency on physical contact and skinship, because of the lack of affection he was given as a child. This, once again, only really comes up in subtext and is hinted at through his actions, but it is never explained. Aaaaand finally, there is a lot of magical lore that is never explained even remotely. In the story, it is treated very much like a soft magic system, but there are some "harder" elements that go into explaining why certain things have happened, but... they are not actually explained in the story. More like... I know about them, and I can explain these things to anyone who cares to ask (edited)

Capitania do Azar

Oh I suppose that in https://www.sarilho.net/en/ I'm never gonna go in detail about the geopolitics, the different power structures or even how the main empire is structured. We may get hints at it, but it's not necessary for the story so I don't think I'm gonna include much. Details about characters' sexualities are prolly just gonna be hinted at mainly because they don't have the words to express them the same way we do Also I really care about the differences between the different languages and particularly between the spoken and written versions of these, but I can't find a way to have a character explain those just because so you'll have to figure it out through background information like posters and graffiti

sagaholmgaard

Ohh this prompt came at the right time because it's been on my mind lately!! In Reclaim, https://tapas.io/series/_Reclaim_ My two main characters, Albus and Styrka, are in a queerplatonic relationship, which they don't have the word for and it doesn't ever come up except in subtext. I'm trying to write them so that it really shows that they love each other, and everyone knows this, but there won't be a point were they "get together" so to speak because they already have everything they want between each other! And I'm very Soft for this but also nervous that when the story is finished people might feel let down that it doesn't end up in straight up romance? if that makes sense And there's a lot of history research I did that is contextually there but not mentioned in words. That's just one of those things where my knowledge is deeper than what shows in the comic, but I think the story is better for it :D (It's not historic fiction because I'm taking a lot of liberties, but the research is helpful all the same)

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

One of the paladin/church knight's gay, but it never comes up, because, you know, marriage in their world's decided by the parents, because it's a matter of inheritance and heirs not love. He's married, and actually decent friends with his wife and children, but he's taking his oaths seriously. So he never even mentions the people's he's attracted too.

There are openly gay couples in the story, it just didn't work out for him; his family needed that alliance.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

In Phantomarine (http://www.phantomarine.com/) I have two gods that drive the entire story. But seven other gods existed at one point in time. I will be delving into at least two other gods’ stories - as a good background for why the remaining two are in such a tumultuous relationship - but there are five others that I don’t really plan on writing about in great detail. Their symbols and names may pop up in various texts/decorations/etc, but there’s not enough time for a super detailed character study of each. Perfect for side stories, though

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Rainy Day Dreams (http://rainydaydreams.mariahcurrey.com/) takes place in an alternate dimension and the plot deals mostly with interdimensional travelers, but the world is post first interstellar contact also. Only the story isn't a sci-fi so there's no real reason to talk about how robust their space program is and there are already monsters so there's no easy way to tell who's a native and who's and alien.

eli [a winged tale]

Whoa Mariah that sounds fun! I love how everyone’s worlds are complex and in depth and there are clues within the story

Would these details be part of another project/side stories/lorebook? What’s everyone’s plans for these secrets

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

My secrets are basically just stewing in my brain I mean, I guess if a reader ever asked, I'd spill all the secrets, but so far, that hasn't happened.

Tuyetnhi (OIYD!)

same lmao

I guess a background detail the comic won't get into is how the imagery in Cara's dream became promiment before her dream boyfriend came to the picture. I did wrote a prequel where she was having dreams of her late grandma who's stories got super visual in her head. Most of the events she told to Cara were from late 70's Vietnam.(edited)

some of those dreams and nightmares were partly inspired from my parent's part growing up in the time, such as my dad encountering a ghoulish corpse with his grandpa and my mom actually building things from a hut in the jungle

so yeah lmao. ghost story dreams

eli [a winged tale]

Mariah I’m curious about non-scifi parallel universe space program alien monsters are they more the reasoning for how the story exists but you won’t be going into depth with them? (Ie not a plot twisty thing?)

Ghost story dreams and parallel places in real life sound like a good atmosphere/mood element in your story!

Tuyetnhi (OIYD!)

yeah lmao. I wasn't sure how to add it but Cara does mention about her grandma's story in future chapters (if my hands let me draw faster lolol). but as a small tibit. Maybe I'll sit down and write more as a side story lol

eli [a winged tale]

Side stories sound like a great way to showcase more of the world

Tuyetnhi (OIYD!)

I'll consider it lolol

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Mariah I’m curious about non-scifi parallel universe space program alien monsters are they more the reasoning for how the story exists but you won’t be going into depth with them? (Ie not a plot twisty thing?)

They're just kind of an additional details that I came up with while thinking about the world. The planet itself I decided a long time ago is Eart but like 100,000 years in the future so the tectonic plates have shifted and the continents are different. The setting is kind of a mix of old-timey and futuristic, but also mixed with magic so the lines between what is technology and what's just supernatural are already pretty blurred. So since it's already sort of a futuristic society I thought it would just be a neat addition to also have had aliens either have shown up or been discovered. I also figured that since the world is super used to inter-dimensional travelers they probably wouldn't be super freaked out to life from off-planet since they already know they aren't alone in the multi-verse? X'D but this stuff really doesn't have any baring on the main story. Like it might be something Mara tells Tristin as some point to blow her human mind. I just like to dig into little setting corners and make tunnels readers probably won't ever see X)

eli [a winged tale]

Ooh that sounds really neat! A big world to discover for the attentive readers

DanitheCarutor

Oh I got some stuff! 1. Part of this can be spoilers for future scenes, so I'm putting it behind a thing. SPOILER Apollo's origin. He was adopted and while at some point him and Julian discuss his parents briefly, it never really comes up in the main narrative. Apollo himself doesn't really care much since he was adopted as a baby and doesn't even know who they are outside of a picture that was given to him as a kid. Essentially they were an Irish couple who moved to the states, the father died at some point and the mother followed close behind during childbirth. There weren't any known relatives, at least ones that wanted to him, so Apollo went into the system and was lucky enough to be adopted almost immediately. END SPOILER 2. Julian's origin. This is kind of brought up briefly later on, but Julian doesn't really know where they're from so nothing much comes of it outside of remembering small bits of how their life was before being found. Although it is eluded to what the situation possibly could have been. 3. Julian's real age and date of birth. Since they didn't have any kind of ID the doctors had to guess their age, which isn't an important detail for the story so I don't see a point in adding it. 4. The details of what happened at Hopeful Hands. This place is discussed a lot, but the talk is more about the trauma that was inflicted and how to move on, rather than lingering on the details. Although enough of what happened is brought up to get a good picture of what kind of place it is/was. I figured laying it all out would be a little too much, and would take away from the main point of the story. 5. The lives of Apollo's friends. There are a couple side character who get fleshed out a bit later on, but since the story isn't about them I didn't see a need in showing more than what is necessary.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Hmm... there's certainly quite a few things that don't show up in the main narrative. Like Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R is very much the Mizuki show, very few other characters get deep explorations into their backstories. But, like, that's what the short stories are for. As for things that never show up in the series at all... the only ones I can think of are the history of the world (because, like, it's pretty boring) and the specifics of how certain technology works. Like, I have a list of people & companies that various locations in the series were named after, and a list of the dynasties in the Giduli Kingdom. There's... not really any interesting stories there, it's just a dry list, so it's not something really worth caring about. And, like, saying "FTL travel in this world works by traveling to a parallel universe where everything is exactly the same except half as big" is kinda interesting I guess... but there's no reason for any character to mention it, and that specific detail really isn't relevant to the story besides "there is FTL travel in this world".

Feather J. Fern

Oh man, for Teasday, any detail about what the actual background of the story is. It's mostly character driven, if the characters don't care, or don't know, they don't talk about it. For Go Figure, I think no one is going to be told anything about the other battles in the past but they did happen.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

There are so many stories I have built into the backstories of various characters that probably won't come up in the main work but have thought about making other adjacent comics about. For example I could imagine doing a prequel type thing about Joe's life & exploits

Since he is a cool character but unfortunately dead for this entire story

AntiBunny

In AntiBunny, http://AntiBunny.net/ I can't think of any reason to bring up the fact that Runo is asexual. Juju is also bisexual, and that also never comes up.

Desnik

Right now it's the warlock's magic system. I got it all worked out and then it suddenly had nothing to do with my plot.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think sexuality details are easier to work in than a lot of people expect. You don't need a character to stand up and announce Have I Mentioned That I Am Asexual Today -- it can be an offhand mention that not all your readers will even pick up on. (But the ones who are looking for it will notice.) https://leifandthorn.com/comic/family-deserts-4-33/

What I've teased but never been able to work into Leif & Thorn canon (yet?) are the details of the World's Largest Cheese Sculpture.

There's also a lot of country names and flags in the bank that haven't shown up yet...but I'm about to draw scenes from a big international song competition, so I'm probably gonna need even more than I already have.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH as an ace person, I don't really pick up on these things. It has to be more concrete for me. Kudos for those who do pick up on them and find them validating, though.

The cheese sculpture sounds epic.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ahhh, that's what "reading the comments section to check out other people's theories" is for!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I do that, but I don't consider that canon until the actual comic convinces me

It's also not something we creators can rely on, especially those of us who don't get many comments...

I'm not saying this is bad. Offhand mentions are great, just not concrete proof for everybody (and nothing is for everybody, sooooo).

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, as a reader I like a lot of comics that don't get many comments...but it's cool when they do and there are people coming up with things.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

So I get it if a fellow creator finds it difficult to show that a character is ace -- like, maybe they're like me and they want Concrete Proof rather than an indication.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

But the creator would already have concrete proof, right? Since it's their character. And the idea is that, even if it won't reach all readers, the indications are still better than nothing.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, like I said, they're not bad to have.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

(for reference, the comic I linked above isn't the first offhand-mention related to that character, it's just the point when readers started putting it together)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from slipping in those indications. Just saying different strokes for different folks.

DanitheCarutor

Reminds me of a comic I read called 'WANDERING' (https://tapas.io/series/wandern), the main male character in it is ace, although this is never stated out right in the story. At some point readers were speculating about his sexuality due to some hints, although I was totally oblivious. Didn't have any idea where the discussion came from. I do agree that a reader is more likely to pick up on something if they're looking for it though, as someone who doesn't care too much about a character's sexuality and gender (when those subjects aren't important to the story) I don't pick up on then unless the author holds my hand a little. Although when it comes to one of my character's genders it's never stated in my comic either, someone just asks about pronouns and attire later on and that's it. Kind of ironic. Lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm in a similar boat. Most of my characters' orientations are left ambiguous. I may need to drop an additional hint or two for some of them...

DanitheCarutor

Pfff right? I don't think my comic even had the word 'gay' in it until a few pages ago and I'm already into chapter 5. (to be fair, Apollo's sexuality is pretty obvious. The hits are really unsubtle.) I've thought about making my character's gender more easy to read for oblivious people like me, but that part of the comic is more about what makes them feel good in their own skin rather than putting a title to it. So people who miss my Twitter posts and author's comments can just speculate for themselves, I guess.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can respect that. For me, a big part of the reason I'm wanting to put more hints is because I don't want people to accuse me of.... what people accused Legend of Korra about (I didn't watch it, but I did see some of those complaints)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Ah... The good ol' "why is she randomly bi?"

They didn't do a good job of showing it throughout the series up until that point at the end

But, big but, the creators mentioned that she was always intended to be bi, but they were afraid that Nickelodeon wouldn't let them represent a bi character on TV.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Again, coming from someone who hasn't watched it, I feel like the complaint should be "why is she suddenly in love" rather than "why is she suddenly bi" -- same issue with shoehorned in straight romance

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

That too

These characters were fighting over the same man at some point

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

big shrug indeed, it sounds like

DanitheCarutor

Oooh! I thought it was the "stop the show to announce my gender/sexuality" thing. I never saw the show either and didn't see many of the complaints since I don't hang out on social media very often. Lol @keii’ii (Heart of Keol) That's understandable! With how stuff like that is nowadays it's better to be safe and make sure readers know, rather than not make it known till the last possible minute. It does kind of suck if putting in bigger hints doesn't mesh with will your story though.

Gosh, about the Korra thing, they could have dropped some subtle pick up lines in while fighting over the dude. But not wanting your show to get pulled or not wanting to be denied stuff is understandable.

Tuyetnhi (OIYD!)

oh yeah, the LoK convos about Korra and Asami. I watched the show during that time and it's just rip

Nick said to the creators they will pull the show if there's an explict statement that Kora and Asami being BI

so they had to be lowkey as hell in the end, which at the time of 2013-2014? idk the year

it was a steping stone for american cartoons I guess rip

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, and even though LoK aired back when things were a little different.... honestly I still feel that kinda pressure from EVERY angle, just a different flavor of it.

Tuyetnhi (OIYD!)

yea

DanitheCarutor

Well, last minute LGBT+ is better than none. Now there are a few shows like that, right? SU is super into it? (I don't watch this show either so I'm guessing based on fan discussion) and the MLP final dropped in some last minute stuff.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I have at least one character with cross orientation, and that's really awkward to show when I don't wanna put any... sex in the comic. (It's got lots of juvenile "tee hee butts" kinda stuff, but nothing steamy)

AntiBunny

Other tidbits I've thought of that I couldn't really address without just dropping a big exposition bomb are bits of lagosapien biology. They for instance have a shorter adolescence than humans, so they're shorter, but reach adulthood sooner. Their eyes are a bit wider than a human's, giving them a wider field of view, but less depth perception, and that they have higher muscular density, but being about half the size are on average human, are a little weaker than an adult human.

eli [a winged tale]

I know some webcomics have world lores and character notes at the end of each chapter

mathtans

Oh, things that don't show up? Randomly I'll toss in here that Expona is left handed. (Mostly consistently, I may have slipped up in the art once or twice.) Never something that makes sense for characters to talk about though, and not plot relevant, so... does that qualify? I dunno.

Joichi / Sarah

@Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn) sorry I'm late but I like the way you point out about asexuality. I was thinking of how to show concrete proof one's ace. But most of the time, I can pick up 'emotional signs' if it has inner monologue about romance.

The hard part of it, is being one myself, and it's always 'been like this' but in comic, it has to be said somewhere

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ah, good to hear!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And yeah, that was my intention, encouraging people who feel stuck between "explicit announcement" or "nothing at all" to remember that you have in-between options. And if you take that approach, there's all kinds of creative/offbeat/fun things you can do with it.

(Applies to everything else, too, sexual orientation just happens to be the thing people were talking about when it came up.)