#and like i know kanaya had that whole talk about the matriorb and stuff with jade

[catman-draws]

How do you break this kind of news

[davekat-sucks]

Bro vs Eridan in terms of being an awful person is tricky considering Bro was being possessed by Cal and Eridan was a 13 year who had to do Feferi dirty work his entire life so her Lusus wouldn't destroy everything. I genuinely think Bro had no choice in anything he did considering his note to Dave was something Caliborn came up with. Eridans case is a bit more complex given the circumstances of his planet, none of those things he did were ok to do but either feed the monster or have everything destroyed. He's the whole reason the trolls were alive in the first place. Considering he had to risk his life everyday for everyone else, him attempting to join Jack isn't out of the ordinary for dangerous stuff he encounters. Yea he's douchey and destroying the matriorb was dick move, but everyone on the meteor lost their minds and had or attempted to kill someone. Tavros tried and Kanaya sawed 2 people in half.

I am also on the side that Bro was possessed or mind controlled to some degree. But the fandom sees things like his strife battle with Dave as more serious because the other ones are played for laughs. Forgetting John would strike is father with a hammer and Rose threatened to commit suicide in front of her Mom. Jade's case is sadder when you remember that when Jade played with the double pistols, Tavros had used Bec to redirect the bullet to kill Grandpa English. She indirectly killed her guardian and wouldn't realize it until later on in the game. Bro's last act would be attempting to fight Jack Noir before dying. So does that mean people think Jack Noir is a HERO for killing the abuser? They forget that DAVESPRITE was present too when they both went after Jack. Bro had no reason to do anything to someone that's a brother from a different timeline. And yet, he was able to let Davesprite run away to safety and fought Jack on his own before dying.

But nobody in this nu-fandom remembers this or thinks hard about that last moment. They only care about his past actions and think it is played for straight abuse. It only applies to him and cannot be applied to other characters unless it's part of a gender arc for a character to transition. It's true Eridan would hunt lusus to help feed Feferi's. Even he admits it can be tiring to figure out when it is the proper time to hunt or not. Hinting that they can't overfeed or underfeed Gl'bgolyb. But you also can't deny he was also doing it to get closer to Feferi and be in a closer relationship with her. Which is why people label him as an incel and people flanderize that to the extreme which gave us Cronus. Then there's the line about him saying he killed marine life accidental.

If it's not sarcasm or poor flirting, it could also mean Eridan had unintentionally killed a lusus and gave it to Feferi to help feed another lusus to try and justify what he is doing is good. And overtime, he gradually accepted it and continued. Getting close to his crush Feferi would also tie in too. You know what they say about psychopaths, first sign is them killing animals. Sure the animals were parents for a troll, but they are still ANIMALS. Kanaya, Karkat, and Terezi accepted that Eridan was a piece of shit and want him to stay dead. Even if he was the reason said trolls are still around, they would never want to bring him back because of his horrid actions on the meteor. As we see when Karkat ended their friendship and Terezi talking with Vriska on who to revive back, Eridan doesn't deserve to be revived. And no mention of Equius, as being the Void player..

Nepeta may have felt Eridan had died, but it's unknown if she knew about Eridan wanting to join Jack. She wasn't even present with Aradia and others in the Vriskagram after becoming a ghost to meet up with him. Though we have yet to see Terezi and Vriska act on that promise on reviving said trolls. The reason they haven't because Terezi found out that Gamzee was trapped in the same fridge as her corpsed friends and didn't want to see him. Maybe the dead trolls will come back for Homestuck Beyond Canon, but that's just wishful thinking with how dead Nepeta jokes are still around and they only brought ghost Eridan in Epilogues for a 'redemption arc.

Eridan got what he deserved and died for his actions. But does he deserve to get brought back? How long should the punishment of his death last? To the cast and narrative, he can never be brought back to relevancy. The other reason the fandom likes Eridan recently is because of Pesterquest putting through the gender arc. Saying his seahorse dad was abusive that didn't acknowledge his gender, despite it's never shown in the webcomic he was this. And because of that, people instantly love him and ignore his past actions and stance on hemospectrum. All for the sake of making the March Eridan meme less transphobic. Nu-fans don't give a shit that he was racist, killed animals and Feferi, destroyed the Matriorb, and had killed Kanaya. All it matters is his label. Yes he is a racist asshole, but he's a NON-BINARY racist asshole. Both Bro and Eridan had done horrible things in the past. But one got more heat over the other. As one got love and attention because of a non-canon moment in a side game, despite people had hated him for those past actions. It's sort of insane about the priorities we have going on in this fandom.

[catflowerqueen]

Meat

Just finished the Meat Epilogue. I’m going to have to wait until tomorrow to do Candy, though. It took a lot longer than I thought it would to finish this one...

Originally I was going to do a liveblog of my reactions, but I started to get burned out after chapter 5, so instead I’m just going to put a summary of my lingering impressions below.

One of my bigger lingering takeaways is that I really cannot believe that Kanaya didn’t hatch the matriorb/leave instructions for hatching the matriorb behind in the past before everyone traveled to the present time. That seems very irresponsible and shortsighted.

That aside, I was really liking it all and following along pretty well until the part where Dirk took over the narrative. Or made it more blatant that he was in control of the narrative the entire time. I’m still not entirely sure which on is accurate.

That whole “But you already knew that” bit where the narrative began being written exclusively in orange was chilling in the most excellent of ways, but then it kind of felt like it/Dirk went off the rails in a really unpleasant way. The way he was acting... It really didn’t feel like Dirk anymore. Maybe it was supposed to be the influence of other doomed Dirks, and I guess it sort of makes sense if the Dirk here is predominantly featuring the one who raised Dave and was under the demonic influence of Lil’ Cal in the pre-scratch Earth, but even that... it just didn’t seem right. 

Also, by the end I was wondering if he was in the initial stages of some weird blackrom courtship with ghost!Calliope. Because that’s honestly kind of what it felt like, and it makes a weird sort of sense with what we know about cherubs.

As far as the usual Calliope goes... I suppose it makes sense for them to identify themselves as nonbinary, as there have been many discussions wondering if the twins’ obsessions with humans and trolls and their socialization with others messed with the development they would have had if they had grown up as normal cherubs, isolated from everything and everyone else. So it would make sense for Calliope to maybe think they should pick a gender for themself. 

On the other hand, this brings into question Aranea’s explanation of cherub reproduction, since she clearly states that the genders of the parents matter, since if a male lays the egg the gender and nature alignment stays the same, but if the female does it the gender and nature alignment flips. If cherubs do not naturally have a gender, then how is this possible? Of course, it’s also entirely possible that Aranea was lying/didn’t really know what she was talking about since she is kind of an unreliable narrator, and anyways, all of that is besides the point if Calliope decides that they want to be nonbinary.

I’m admittedly really confused about what is going with Roxy, though, since Roxy switched pronouns at least three times during the narrative, and given how many characters had their minds messed with during this, I have absolutely no idea who is reliable or not, or whether it makes me a hypocrite to be able to easily understand where Calliope is coming from but not Roxy.

I’m also not entirely sure what I should do in regards to either of their genders in regards to my planned (but not yet written) fanfiction. I started planning when they were both narratively referring to themselves as girls, and I don’t know whether or not it is disrespectful to keep that characterization the way I had planned it under this understanding, or whether I should change it to fit what this epilogue states. 

That aside, I’m happy to see some more serious shipping as John<3<Terezi! And I kind of figured John would die, so I’m not really surprised about that. I AM a bit disappointed that Terezi didn’t fess up to knowing what happened to John when directly asked about it. Even if she DOES have some sort of vague and weird plan to resurrect him via Dirk’s sudden creepiness.

I’m also curious what Meenah was planning at the end there. But at least she no longer instinctively wants to kill John on sight.

Wow, this ended up longer than I thought... uh...

Final notes: It was interesting. I’m curious to see how the Candy epilogue will enhance the experience, and if there will be anything after that.

Also if someone can explain the postscript and what happened there, that would be great.

I’ll probably post some Candy stuff sometime later. I have some things planned for Easter, so it may get pushed back. Who knows.

[universefrog]

timeline shenanigans in homestuck: an explanation (because i love to infodump)

ok so i feel like i have a pretty good grasp on a lot of the more complex time travel stuff in homestuck, so i’m basically just going to explain it to the best of my abilities! especially the creation of lord english. (there may be errors because i’m doing this entirely from memory.) hopefully this’ll be beneficial to people who don’t understand it so well.

1. what is an alpha timeline, anyway?

one might be tempted to view the alpha timeline as the “destiny” of the universe—a path that must and will be followed because that’s what’s “supposed” to happen—but that’s not quite right. the alpha timeline is basically the series of events that must happen in order to ensure that events in the past take place. that is, a series of events that involves time travel, but makes sure no time paradoxes occur. however, there are offshoot timelines that deviate from this path, and those are doomed timelines. doomed TLs are doomed because they’re paradoxical. this will all make more sense after i give some examples!

2. caliborn, lord english, doc scratch, and cal

i think the most logical way to structure this explanation will be to lay out the events that lead to lord english’s creation from caliborn’s perspective. (note that it’s not chronological)

first, caliborn and calliope are born. if i recall correctly, they grow up on earth c, but far far in the future. gamzee’s there. they grow up, caliborn takes control and kills calliope, he enters his dead session, and begins unlocking screens from which he can watch the alpha kids, much like the trolls watched the beta kids through trollian. he is also - quite importantly - gifted with cal. (i’m not going to even try to explain the whole journey through time/universes that cal takes… honestly, not much of it is that important to the plot.)

one day, caliborn unlocks a screen that shows him an event in the future (which i will get to later!!!), prompting him to make a beautiful claymation work of art he calls his “masterpiece.” it also inspires him to go fight yaldabaoth, his denizen, and get cool powers and pool ball eyes and stuff. he talks about this in a6a6a5.

caliborn fights yaldabaoth and wins! (we see this around the end of act 6.) in return, he gets a box with a powerful juju, the white one shaped like the sburb logo. he can use it once against his enemies, and then it will be used against him. in act 7, we see him taking the juju and smashing a clock (one that displays the judgement of a god tier death) with the crowbar, a juju breaker. is the clock a juju? does him smashing it represent him conquering death? we don’t know! then he gets the flashing eyes.

at the end of the credits, caliborn, who’s hanging out with gamzee and has been doing so for who knows how long, sends john an inflammatory snapchat. at this point, john’s like 20 or something. john gets angry, and this leads into the events of the masterpiece.

john grabs all the kids and zaps them to caliborn’s hideout. a huge fight ensues. caliborn sucks the four beta kids into the house juju. this is, chronologically, the last we see of them in canon. then he fights the alpha kids some more. jake does his hope bubble thing. then none other than arquiusprite turns up. why? how? no idea. somehow gamzee is sawed in half during the fight (for like, the third time in canon? second time?). also, cal is there.

dirk utilizes his god tier powers and sucks out caliborn’s soul. but he also accidentally gets the souls of arquius, and half of gamzee. he puts all three (er, two and a half) souls into cal. now cal is no longer an “empty vessel”. roxy banishes cal into the void.

(what do the alpha kids do after the fight, now that the betas are gone? how do they get back to earth c without john’s zappy powers? hell, what happens to the trolls?? dave and rose are gone, so poor karkat and kanaya… i feel like you could write some quality sadstuck about this.)

cal goes on a whole trip through various universes and timelines, ending up with dave, dirk, gamzee, etc. but the important part with him happens during a5a2, with the creation of doc scratch, when i believe he’s in kanaya’s possession.

in a5a2, the black queen (later to become snowman) uses the trolls’ ectobiology lab to create doc scratch. first, she takes the codes that correspond to dna sequences, that tavros, aradia, vriska, and terezi unconsciously wrote in their flarp books (t1ck t0ck 8r8k h34ds), much like rose wrote the meow code on her wall. she also uses a code that a doomed-timeline gamzee wrote in a ~ath manuel (honk HONK). the BQ also grabs the ghost imprints of vriska’s magic cue ball, and cal. so cal is literally part of what makes up doc scratch.

when scratch dies, his dead body transforms into lord english. cal acted as a carrier for caliborn’s soul - which was then used to make LE. so you could say that LE is part caliborn, part gamzee, part arquius, and part scratch. (and when LE is created, the clock t1ck t0cks, scratch’s h34d 8r8ks, and he lets out a vast honk HONK…)

3. he is already here

the alpha timeline is partially defined by LE’s presence in it. he interferes with the story in so many ways while the kids are still in the game - destroying dream bubbles, cracking spacetime, etc. and yet, very important events that led to his creation (the masterpiece, for one) happen much later, way after the kids have won the game. all of these events have to happen. if the kids didn’t win the game, they never would’ve gone to earth c, and the masterpiece wouldn’t have happened. it’d be a paradox.

that’s what the alpha timeline is! the sequence of events necessary to bring about lord english’s creation, among other things, and ensure that there are no paradoxes.

let’s talk about doomed timelines for a sec. remember the one that created davesprite? they couldn’t have won the game if jade and john were dead, which they were in that TL. that timeline disintegrates as soon as doomed dave goes back and becomes davesprite, because the alpha timeline needed him to be davesprite. same goes for the doomed gamzee who provided the honk HONK code.

sometimes, though, the alpha TL can go in a direction that doesn’t directly ensure its own creation. sometimes, it “anticipates” changes to itself. sometimes, TLs that would otherwise be doomed are allowed to go on for years.

yep, i’m talking about….

4. the retcon

the retcon doesn’t behave like other time travel in homestuck, for many reasons. one interesting thing is that we follow the pre-retcon TL for three years. we get a sense that a lot of the doomed TLs didn’t really “happen” in terms of the story. but the pre-retcon TL sure did! and that’s because it’s not doomed, or at least not in the more traditional sense. it contributed some very important things to the alpha timeline as a whole: john’s zappy power (which he uses to go fight caliborn in the masterpiece), and vriska’s quest to find the juju.

there NEEDS to be two timelines - one where vriska dies, and one where she doesn’t. when she dies, she explores with meenah and the rest, and finds caliborn’s house juju. (now it can be used against him.) when she lives, she takes control of the meteor, puts grimbark jade to sleep before she can do too much damage, and ensures that everyone doesn’t die. both of these are super important.

(random aside. i’ve been thinking of the pre-retcon timeline as an offshoot of the alpha, a slightly different path in which the alpha allows itself to be changed drastically. but what if it’s just an extended doomed timeline? like how davesprite was needed in the alpha, and the TL disintegrated after he left - like how the pre-retcon TL disintegrated [except for the ghosts of course] after john left. just a thought.)

timelines collide (pun definitely intended) at the end, where vriska takes the juju from (vriska) and uses it against lord english. it’s heavily implied that the beta kids have been trapped inside the juju all this time, and they come out now, possibly to defeat LE once and for all. at least that’s my theory!

5. conclusion

to answer some questions @heirofair22 had…

dave’s stable time loops. i’m pretty sure he’s just able to see ways in which he can time travel so as not to create paradoxes / doomed timelines. he can travel to a moment in the present from various moments in the future, thus creating time clones. i don’t understand it super well, but that’s the gist of it.

time travel on earth c. from what i understand, jade grabbed (er, shrunk and captchalogued) the alpha kids’ flooded, post-apocalyptic earth while she was grimbark, hoping to give it to the condesce so she could populate it with trolls using the matriorb, and rule over it. fortunately this doesn’t happen. on the frog platform, dave used his time powers to turn it forward in time, giving time for water levels to sink and new life to grow. this is earth c!

after living on earth c for a while and planting the seeds of a civilization there, dave hops the whole gang forward in time so they can give their civilization time to develop, and see it at a time when it’s grown really big and it’s prospering. then they live there, happily ever after. (or not, actually. the events of the masterpiece just have to come and ruin it all.)

that’s uh… pretty much all i wanted to say i think! thanks for reading all 1.6k words of this lmao

[homestuckexamination]

The End of Homestuck: Rapture

Alright then, as I’ve mentioned, I wanted to debate a few points I’ve heard about the Ending, consider it a sort of bonus celebrating over 2000 Posts and 1000 Followers!

But before I say anything, let me preface this by saying: This is not trying to make you like the Ending, rather it’s trying to make you realize why you dislike the Ending. There’s very valid criticisms to the Ending and the Story as a whole and you can just dislike the direction it took- But what I want is debunk a few things the Fandom seems to have really clung to that I think are extremely hollow and just, outright false at times.

So let’s begin, shall we?

The Retcon created a Timeline where everyone’s struggles had been solved, and the characters in it were vastly different from how they used to be.

This one is sincerely one of my biggest Pet Peeves, and I’ve talked about it partially before. A general consensus is that the Retconned Timeline solved every single key problem the Characters on the Meteor had, destroyed Character Development shown for those Characters, and thus, created versions of themselves that were vastly different. Vriska planted herself as a Miracle Solved and everyone lived Happily Ever After.

Except this really is not the case, at all. Vriska’s presence was ultimately extremely useful to disable Jade without killing her. For everyone else, no problems are fixed, and the conception that they do is, I feel, a heavy misunderstanding of what the characters actually struggle with. Let’s go one by one.

Rose and Alcoholism

This is a major one because we see Vriska literally smack a glass right off of Rose’s hand and slam it. Many people don’t even know why Vriska would do something like that, but they just straight up assume this deterred Rose from getting drunk, and instantly fixed every problem she ever had. This is an awful misreading of where Rose’s true problems lie.

“ROSE: And it was all mixed up with feelings of conflict and remorse over my mother.

ROSE: I sort of ran with it too? ROSE: The habit, I mean. For a while at least. ROSE: I was still distraught about losing her. And wanted to understand her. ROSE: To connect with her, in some way. And I guess that was the only idea I had.“

“ROSE: This almost makes it official. ROSE: I have no comprehensible path. There's nothing to overcome, no lesson to learn, no cathartic light at the end of this preposterous tunnel. ROSE: Not for me, at least! ROSE: I seriously have the DUMBEST arc anyone could conceivably imagine.“

“ROSE: I think my quest was fundamentally bound to the nature of this land, which was customized to the profile, needs, and potential for growth of a thirteen year-old girl. ROSE: But I'm not that person anymore. ROSE: What if I ROSE: What if I just ROSE: Didn't bother doing it? ROSE: Like, ever? ROSE: Would anyone notice my dereliction? ROSE: Would the powers that be strike me down where I loaf? ROSE: What if I just said fuck it?“

“DAVE: she sees this quest all neatly laid out for her wrapped in a bow DAVE: fuck it even looks like its made for little kids with like pink turtles and rainbows and shit DAVE: like here you go princess its babys first quest DAVE: almost like it was designed to piss her off DAVE: sburb says here, self improvement delineated and made comprehensible enjoy your cookie cutter odyssey DAVE: so because shes rose she goes no fuck my quest DAVE: literally starts wrecking shit DAVE: and maybe that itself was always her quest“

Rose’s problems aren’t with Alcoholism. They’re with her regret over her Mother, what she has Done up until this point, and her Purpose to the overall story she finds herself in. Alcohol is a way for her to ‘connect’ with her deceased mother, to prepare herself to meet Roxy, and at the same time, to take a weight off her shoulders, to not have to Think about what she’s supposed to do. She’s stressed, anxious and has severe doubts about her Self. Vriska just wanted a functional Seer for the Upcoming Battle, but this underlying unease that’s what drove her to Alcoholism in the first place is not gone.

Terezi and Gamzee

Post-Retcon, Terezi never gets together with Gamzee. Vriska keeps her in check as her Moirail, Gamzee is tied up and suppressed, she never falls for his abuse, nor does she unblind herself. However if you think this solves Terezi’s problems in the slightest I don’t know what to tell you, really.

“GC: 1 DON'T KNOW WH4T 1S WRONG W1TH M3 GC: TH4T 1 C4N'T JUST S4Y STUFF L1K3 TH4T, D1R3CTLY TO P3OPL3 GC: TH3Y C3RT41NLY DON'T 4PP34R TO H4V3 TH4T PROBL3M

GC: 1 W4S JUST P1SS3D 4BOUT YOUR 4TT1TUD3 OF C3RT41NTY GC: 4ND 4NGRY 4T MYS3LF FOR NOT H4V1NG 1T GC: 1 TH1NK 1T'S SOM3TH1NG 1 N33D3D 1N MY L1F3 GC: 3V3N 1F 1T C4M3 FROM SOM3ON3 3LS3

GC: 1 N3V3R F3LT WHOL3 GC: 1 ST1LL DON'T GC: 4ND YOU M4D3 1T SO 1 D1DN'T H4V3 TO F4C3 TH4T F33L1NG GC: FOR 4 WH1L3 4T L34ST GC: 4ND NOW TH4T 1 TH1NK 1 KNOW TH1S 4BOUT MYS3LF GC: 1 TH1NK 1 G3T 1T GC: TH3 F33L1NG W1LL PROB4BLY N3V3R GO 4W4Y GC: ONLY COV3R3D UP 4T MOST, M4YB3 GC: W3 COULD W1N TH1S F1GHT GC: CR34T3 4NOTH3R UN1V3RS3 GC: SUCC33D 1N 3V3RY W4Y POSS1BL3 GC: 4ND 1'LL ST1LL F33L 1NCOMPL3T3“

“TEREZI: OH PL34S3 TEREZI: WH4T COULD YOU POSS1BLY N33D M3 FOR?

TEREZI: 1 DONT TH1NK 1 W1LL B3 V3RY US3FUL

TEREZI: 1 DONT H4V3 MUCH TO OFF3R 3V3N ON MY B3ST D4Y”

Just like Rose’s issues, Terezi’s run deeper than just her getting together with Gamzee and ‘fixing’ her blindness. It’s a deep insecurity about herself, which exists there both Pre and Post Retcon, and being with Vriska is but a Temporary Fix. She needs to experience what Game Over Terezi did in order to even bring herself to join the final fight, and even after that, she still goes to track after Vriska, after everything is done.

Karkat, Relationships, Leadership.

So, Dave and Karkat get together in the Post Retcon Timeline, so there’s no Relationship Drama with Terezi, and Vriska takes over the Meteor’s leadership, leaving Karkat to chill. This seems uncharacteristic of him, even, except that, of course, he doesn’t just give up to his role as a Leader.

“KARKAT: WOW! HAHA, HA, HAHAHAHA! ME LEADER?? TOO FUNNY! KARKAT: I AM ENTIRELY AND SINGULARLY BAFFLED THAT IT COULD STILL EVEN *OCCUR* TO ANYONE TO ENTERTAIN THE NOTION THAT I MIGHT STILL BE PLAYING *ANY* ROLE EVEN WITHIN SNIFFING ORBIT OF A LEADERSHIP POSITION OF THIS RIDICULOUS PARTY. KARKAT: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME I DID *ANYTHING* OF A LEADER-LIKE NATURE, WITHOUT BEING TRUMPED BY VRISKA'S MACHIAVELLIAN LIMELIGHT GLUTTONY? KARKAT: OR FOR THAT MATTER, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THERE WAS ACTUALLY ANYTHING LEADERY *TO* DO, THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE SNUGGLING UP ON THE COUCH TO WATCH "GOOD LUCK CHUCK" FOR THE FIVE HUNDREDTH TIME?! KARKAT: I HAVE SERIOUSLY JUST BEEN ASSUMING HER COMPLETE TAKEOVER OF ALL LEADERSHIP DUTIES WAS SOME FAIT ACCOMPLI SHIT FOR THREE SOLID YEARS, AND HAVE SINCE BEEN ENJOYING THE PEACE AND QUIET OF ZERO RESPONSIBILITIES, WHICH IS WHY QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP MY BLOOD PRESSURE DOWN, AND NOW RESEMBLE THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF PEACE AND FUCKING TRANQUILITY WHICH PRESENTLY BASKS BEFORE YOU IN A STATE OF FROTHING, EUPHORIA-HOBBLED TURDVANA!!!!!!!!“

He’s extremely obviously bitter about being left out of the loop, and hurt about not being the Leader anymore. He jumps at the opportunity to go beat Lord English up without a second thought, and leads the initial charge, which doesn’t end exactly well for him. Echidna does, however, imply that Karkat will have an important part in actually leading the new Troll Civilization. Karkat is not the best leader when it comes to a War-like battle scenario- But if his conversation with Terezi after finding her Unblinded is anything to go by, he’s a great Emotional Leader. Even Pre-Retcon where all the Problems Happened and there was Terezi Drama, he provided support to her and got along with Dave, even if it took a little while. Being cast from his position as a Leader Frustrates him heavily, and digs deeper into the Doubt he displayed after he started having the realization that the Cancer was his fault. He’s frustrated, more impulsive than before, and even though he has Dave to back him up, it’s still tough.

Dave. Just. Dave.

Honestly, there’s not much of a difference between Game Over and Post Retcon Dave, is there? He’s dating Karkat, sure, but there’s not much else. If anything, the major difference comes later on, with the Dogfight vs the Jackfight. We learn from his talk with Dirk about his hatred for Bro, his dislike for fighting, the sound of metal, the sight of blood. His hatred of Heroism because of him, and it ties well to him not wanting to use his Time Powers or Fight Jade- Training him to become stronger, Grimbark Jade basically wanted to do the same to him as Bro had been doing since he was born. But he does grab his weapon- When he knows he can bring Jade back, if he just snatches her away from the Dogs. This leads to his Death. On the other hand, though, when he fights the Jacks, he has managed to actually have a Heart-to-Heart with Dirk, and vent about everything that’s been tormenting him. This fight, too, ends with him breaking the Unbreakable Katana and Decapitating Dirk, before warping him away from the fight so he could be put back together by Jane afterwards. There’s a Catharsis for Dave, but as he tells Dirk, it’ll probably just keep building back up for a few years before needing a feels jam again. He got enough of a resolution, but his problems weren’t gone, and even if they were gone, they’re not gone by the nature of the Retcon, rather, by the nature of Meeting Dirk, which he was actively prevented from doing so in the Game Over Timeline. This is a development we also see on-screen, so there can’t be much of a complaint about it, right?

Kanaya

Without Rose Drunk and with Gamzee restrained, Kanaya’s focus post-Retcon returns to the Matriorb and rebuilding Troll Civilization. This is a tricky one, because you could say that Vriska did help Kanaya with this, and it is true that, by proxy, Kanaya didn’t have to do as much in the Meteor. But, these aren’t her Problems, rather they are things she helped with, and furthermore the presence of Vriska in general poses a problem for Kanaya. Still bitter about her old Red Crush on her, and with her being Meddlesome and butting in on her and Rose, she expresses explicit distaste when talking to her. Vriska is just up in everyone’s business and being a nuisance more than she’s an actual help. As for the Matriorb, well, with the issues leading up to Game Over they didn’t even have the possibility to focus on Troll Repopulation, so it’s a thing that’s brought up exclusively in the Post-Retcon Timeline. This is solved effortlessly, which actually brings new thoughts and issues to the table!

“KANAYA: So Instead Of All That KANAYA: Its Just KANAYA: Handed To Me KANAYA: Like A Nice Present ROXY: yes KANAYA: I Dont Know What To Say KANAYA: This Changes So Much KANAYA: About Everything I Thought I Had To Do”

Kanaya suddenly isn’t as sure about fighting, with the responsibility she suddenly has- Yet Roxy encourages her to go take down Condy. This is paralleled by Davepeta telling Jade to just do what she wants to do! But more on this later. 

Vriska vs (Vriska)

The hottest topic of the Retcon. Vriska’s Character Development is absolutely ruined by her being brought back, and you know what? I do agree with this! But that’s the thing though- I think this is good? Like. A lot of people complain about Vriska coming back and fixing everyone’s problems and being glorified, but as I’ve just displayed up above, Vriska is anything but Glorified. She’s forced everyone to do what she wants without actually solving any problem, she’s pushy, she’s cocky, and then we have a literal confrontation between her and (Vriska)...

“VRISKA: 8e quiet. I'm talking. VRISKA: Look at you. VRISKA: Just looooooook at you. VRISKA: How completely pathetic. (VRISKA): What? (VRISKA): What's your pro8lem?! VRISKA: My pro8lem is you make me fucking sick. “

“(VRISKA): I'm not a loser though! (VRISKA): I LIKE who I've 8ecome. (VRISKA): I actually feel happy and good a8out my life for the first time in... may8e forever?? (VRISKA): Like, ACTUALLY good a8out my life in a way that feels real, instead of forced. Don't you realize that's what it was like for us? VRISKA: You don't have a life! VRISKA: You're DEAD, remem8er?”

The Vriska vs (Vriska) interaction is one of my favorite parts of the entire Webcomic, because we have the Cocky Vriska that never actually developed positively, facing the Vriska that actually did have personal growth. Furthermore, neither the Plan to fight in the Session goes as she planned, nor does she gather the Army, or even lead it for most of the part, and ultimately her contribution to the Final Fight is to literally open the Juju Chest. She Steals the Spotlight, and the only ones to actually glorify this are the people in the Fandom. Everyone else within the story actually suffers more than they are actively helped by Vriska’s Actions, and that is what makes me absolutely love her leading towards the Ending. She’s the Savior Figure that comes back from the Dead to fix everything stereotype, except she actually barely fixes anything, and is an actively toxic force for most of the characters. Meanwhile (Vriska), after Aranea leaves them, actually does introspection about what she’d been doing and positively changes, culminating with a reunion with GO! Terezi. That is the culmination of Vriska’s Character Arc, Terezi Remem8er, and Vriska going for Lord English is ultimately detrimental for her Character. You can dislike that Vriska’s character ended up like that, but that’s the thing, saying that’s a bad part of the story is subjective, because it’s the obvious intention of the story to display this duality between Vriska and (Vriska)!

Not only that, but all I’ve said about these characters, about Pre vs Post Retcon, is entirely taken from canon statements by the Characters, straight up saying their problems in one way or another, and by the way their actions shape the stories. Both Pre and Post Scratch display the effects of the Characters’ deeper issues in different situations, how they cope with them and how they work towards solving them. You know why they all seem to fix their issues more Post-Retcon than Pre-Retcon? Because they don’t Die. It’s not that they’re even that differently developed, they simply get further. Rose was already talking to Kanaya about her issues before Game Over, Terezi was working towards fixing things and ultimately led to John’s Retcon Quest, they had different issues, stemming from the same main struggles, and that did not change at all.

I’d like to close this section with a quote by Hussie on Character Writing.

“I think writing in voice is pretty simple. It's mostly about consistency. Choosing a set of parameters and committing to them absolutely. [...] The advantage in being so obstinate with the profile you choose is then any deviation you make will be very noticeable. This is to your advantage, if you can control these deviations with purpose and precision."

And honestly? Dave still feels like Dave. Rose still feels like Rose. Terezi still feels like Terezi. The deviation from their core character is minor, and these deviations are, in turn, explored and talked about with their interactions, putting some context to what they’re doing and what they’re striving for. Honestly, I feel a lot of the issues with Game Over and the Post-Retcon Timeline come from the fact they were the... Post-Gigapause Updates, and a lot of people just forgot a lot of stuff. But let’s move on, this first section has gone on for WAY TOO LONG.

Act 7 wasn’t a satisfying conclusion to the story. Plot Threads and Character Arcs were dropped entirely, and everything was left incredibly ambiguous.

Let’s start this by pointing something out: Act 7 wasn’t actually the End of Homestuck. One of the reasons Act 7 might feel bad is the fact that a lot of things aren’t solved. And that’s alright, because Act 7 isn’t the Ending of the Characters’ Stories, nor is it the end of everything that happens. Act 7 is the culmination of Calliope’s purpose, the Finale brought to Lord English’ Alpha Timeline, and the Ending of the SBURB Session the Kids have played. Hell- The Credits, without even going to the Post-Canon Snapchat Updates, shows us that there’s still obviously more going on. Terezi is still looking for Vriska, Aradia, Sollux and Davepeta are missing too, John is depressed because he has nothing to do, Caliborn is being an asshole through Snapchat occasionally. 

The thing is that a lot of Plot Threads weren’t actually solved in Act 7, rather they were solved before Act 7, sometimes even extremely unceremoniously, like with Caliborn’s Masterpiece. And most important events in Homestuck? We’ve actually seen how they begin, and how they end. There’s ambiguity in the way you go from point A to point B, as well as some Timeline Weirdness with some things, again, like Caliborn’s Masterpiece.

Additionally, a few things about the Final Battle, the fate of Vriska and Lord English and Paradox Space, have been left ambiguous, and this is not unintentional. You may dislike ambiguous endings, and that’s honestly, perfectly okay? The ambiguity, or the ‘anticlimax’, you can dislike it, but the spite held against the Ending is, mostly, subjective tastes?

This however, doesn’t even touch one of the most important things about the Ending, and that is, that we don’t have the Epilogue yet. We’ve been left with nearly the whole picture, nearly the whole Puzzle of Homestuck, laid out before our eyes, and there are still some pieces missing that could come from the Epilogue! But even without it, I do believe we have enough pieces to put most of the picture together, enough that the rest of holes becomes sort of, obvious, or easy to interpret in different ways? The Epilogue could offer closure to the things we don’t know about, but what I’ve seen around, mostly, is that instead of trying to give closure to these open questions about the story, people have rather resorted to getting angry at the whole of the comic! This is, really, the aggravating attitude that’s made me make this post in the first place trying to debunk some of the more popular Ending Criticism. If you have any specific ‘We don’t know how this happened!’ question, feel free to send me an Ask and we can talk about it! In fact, let me answer to one of those Asks right now.

“What happened to LE?” Unless the Epilogue does pull a switcheroo, the Ending obviously assumes he has been defeated. The symbolism of the Treasure taking the shape of a Cueball and LE’s eyes becoming 8-Balls, with the Breach as the ‘Pocket’ certainly implies he’s been cast into the Black Hole, but there could’ve been more of a fight! Does the Treasure open to free the Souls of the Kids? Does it just Attack Him? That is something that’s left up to the imagination at the very least until the Epilogue happens, and instead we’re left with the image of the Kids Happy on Earth-C- It doesn’t quite matter how he’s defeated, because we know that he has been defeated, and the Kids are living happily post-ending. This could change in the Epilogue, yes, but if it does change, then we’ll have more of the story to go, which will mean that wasn’t the True Ending to begin with, yet still leaving us with the tools to build an actual Happy True Ending. That is the beauty of ambiguity in a story when you DO have the pieces to build what happens until the story continues post-canon!

“Does caliborn still turn into LE?” He needs to do so to become Lord English, however the Masterpiece also implies the possibility of our Caliborn and the Caliborn that becomes Lord English being two different Caliborns. This is, again, left ambiguous in the same way LE’s defeat is. We do know he HAS to become LE, and we also KNOW how he becomes LE. But then the seed of doubt is planted- Is it the same Caliborn? And that is how speculation, talk and theories about the Ending spark, still giving a satisfying conclusion because we know it has to happen somehow, but leaving us to ponder about the specifics, without holding back on important pieces of information that we NEED to know.

“Where’s Vriska?” That’s what Terezi is trying to find, and it’ll likely be one of the main points of the Epilogue. The fact she’s still looking for her however, implies that she’s been missing for over three years. She has accomplished what she went out to do, defeat Lord English. Now the question is, will she come back and redeem herself? Or did she fall with Lord English into the Breach, as a Karmic Retribution of all the bad things she has done? Does she deserve the same Fate as the Villain? Or is there still hope for her? For a character as controversial as Vriska, I honestly love that her fate has been left ambiguous so far.

As for Gamzee, I mean he’s extremely devout to LE and he’s fated to become part of him, granting him a Plot Shield. We do know why he’s so hard to kill, and we also know exactly in what way he ends up becoming part of LE. There’s some weird things left Ambiguous, like his Ghosts, but even that it’s speculation that doesn’t necessarily influence the Ending Result.

As I mentioned above? We have most of the Puzzle Pieces, and the ones we don’t have are intentionally left out for us to fill the hole with our own headcanons and theories. I can’t think of any important thing we don’t see the origin or result of, leaving just certain bits in between to the speculation.

But some of the Characters had their Arcs Dropped, didn’t have their problems solved, or were shafted entirely by the story.

Here we start to get into more messy territory with the Criticism Endings, because rather than misunderstanding, a lot of these are opinions! For example, I do agree I would’ve loved seeing some more Jane towards the ending. However I really don’t think anyone was ‘shafted’ by the story. In fact, I’ve heard people mention how Davepetasprite and Jasprosesprite were, somehow, attempts at reducing the amount of characters towards the ending, and like...

What? So you’re saying reducing the amount of characters towards the ending is accomplished... By making new Characters that present us with really interesting nuances and takes on the world of Homestuck? Are you sure about that? Hell, if Hussie really wanted to reduce the amount of characters, he would’ve killed off every Sprite Pre-Retcon, and not brought Rose back from where Roxy buried her. Were Davepeta and Jasprose afterthoughts that weren’t planned? Purrhaps. But they add onto the story, they are not an attempt to reduce anything. That being said, a lot of people that say this also call the Ending ‘rushed’, somehow. Listen buddy, you can’t simply. Rush something like the Ending of Homestuck. It took way too much time to make for it to not be completely premeditated.

A lot of characters, too, have more Depth to their Arcs than people give Hussie credit for, and while they do suffer or while they don’t interact with someone else as much as other people may, that doesn’t mean they are shafted by the story.

But let’s do this one at a time. Let’s begin with Dead Characters, and just let me say that, straight up, having everyone survive at the end wouldn’t have been as satisfying as you may think. Could Equius have learned to stand up for himself? Could Feferi have done more? Yeah, sure. Could the Dancestors have been more developed? That’s also true! But Death and Conflict happen in Homestuck, and you cannot give every character an equal amount of attention. Furthermore, expecting every character to develop positively is also unrealistic and, honestly, bad? The Trickster Arc is a parody of this, in fact, an accomplishment of the innermost desire of have your problems go away, share everything you want to share and just do everything you want! That problem-less happiness for everyone feels forced and uncanny, having everyone come back happily and develop positively would be worse than having some of them die off. The Dancestors, too, are precisely the way they are as examples of stagnant Character Development. Even Aranea and Meenah, which are the most developed of the Dancestors, follow this same tend. Meenah mentions how Aranea acting the way she did is not unlike the stuff she always did, and Meenah struggles with the fact that she cannot change the way she is, and follows after Vriska and not (Vriska) because it’s in her nature to Do Shit. It’s fun to write about further development and AUs! But in the canonical story of the magnitude and with the themes Homestuck touches, you simply can’t develop them all equally and positively. And while they could’ve been given more screen time, also, well. With so many characters it becomes hard to balance time and interactions.

Jade is another character that many feel was shafted by the story, but honestly this is not true? She suffered the 3 Years on the Prospit Ship and Struggled with her nature as a Space Player and what she was supposed to do- Just like most characters struggled with something. And in the end? Against what she thought Paradox Space had stored for her? She woke up happily to a letter by Dave about missing her. She tried to pacify her dogs and played with them the way she wanted rather than being put to sleep or fighting them. She did what she wanted to do, not what she thought she was ‘supposed’ to be doing.

Jake is also a very complex character towards the ending. His insecurities are pushed on him over and over until he nearly gives up his friends- Note, this is the boy that died to protect Jane without a second thought in the Game Over Timeline. Vriska pushes his insecurities and Tavros really doesn’t quite help at all. And in the End? He manages to prove himself to not be a useless fuck-up by defeating the most amount of villains in the Final Battle, rising victorious on top of a pile of defeated, Time-Warping, Meddlesome Felt Members. The task Vriska had given to him as she thought was the least important, and that happened to be one of the most difficult battles without a single doubt. Here, I would’ve personally liked to see more dialog about Jake finding out more self worth? But the sweet reunion with everyone else and with Dirk leading to Act 7, and the return of his Adventurer Persona by the Credits still expose development.

Jane is also mentioned to have been shafted at times. I would’ve loved to see her hug Dad when they reunited, but I’d say we got even more with her clinging to him in Earth-C during Act 7. Other than that, though? One of the things Jane has suffered for the most in the comic is being repressed and controlled. Condy, Jake shoving her in a more than desirable situation for her... However, her meeting with Jade and Callie bring some excitement and fun after being Mind-Controlled for a long time, and her encounter with Nannasprite reinvigorates her with confidence about being a Heroine herself, leading to the final Battle where she proves to be both a powerful healer and aggressor! And by the end, not only is she finally able to do what she wants, she takes over Crockercorp to make it her company as she wanted, and ends up with two lovely Girlfriends.

Indeed, there could be more to them, there could be more dialog, more is better after all! But I don’t think their Arcs are cut short, nor that they’re shafted by the story. Rather they showcase different struggles with reality and with themselves, that they  need to overcome? And as Dave told us, Humans don’t have Character Arcs. They build up confidence towards the Final Battle to finish everything, to win the game together, and then they reunite one last time before passing into the New World. And here they will still have problems, for sure. But at the very least, the Game is finished, and they can leave behind a very unpleasant stage in their lives. Jade was Isolated, Jane was Corrupted, Jake was shamed, but in the end they reunited again, made amends where they needed to, and continue their lives with their unique sets of nuances and problems. John and Terezi, which are given some of the most development, are the two that end the most unhappy, in fact, with John having no purpose anymore and falling to depression, and Terezi obsessively chasing after Vriska still, but this doesn’t mean John’s character was ‘shafted’. His friends still encourage him, Jade still wants to visit him for his Birthday, everyone misses Terezi, they have each other and they all love each other, but internal struggles continue. As the Trickster Arc taught us, it’s something to work on, progressively, not suddenly have it all be fixed, and going through a bit of suffering to reach a happy end doesn’t mean being shafted, either. 

The story conveys what it wants to convey with the characters. Whether you agree with what they convey, or if you’d want there to be more about them, now that’s an entirely different can of worms, and that’s why Fanfiction exists and why you’re not only allowed, but encouraged to give your take on the characters and the story!

The problem with the Ending is that it tried something the Story wasn’t. The ‘Meta’ elements, the ‘Symbolism’, it’s cool, but ultimately feels tacked on/Wasn’t conveyed properly through the story, and as such, made the ending feel bad.

This is honestly one of the criticisms I dislike the most about Homestuck when people talk about the Ending, when people say that Hussie didn’t convey his intent, and trying to make the Ending more Meta is detrimental to the Story as a whole and what ‘got the fans there in the first place’, or the thought that somehow more Meta elements and actual Storytelling can’t coexist.

You can definitely not enjoy thinking deeper about a story! If you just want to check out something different and not dig deeper into the content, that’s absolutely okay! However, I’m sorry, but that is not the kind of story Homestuck is. This is a story that’s been acclaimed by the Fandom for its complexity and its weirdness, and now you’re telling me that the thing you dislike about the ending is that it’s weird and makes you think about the story? That’s paradoxical on its own. But let’s leave that behind. Whether you enjoy the more Meta aspect of stories or if you prefer a story one way or another, it’s all subjective. Let’s go to the main point here.

Hussie. Didn’t convey the kind of story it was? And it’s a disservice to the Fandom to have the Ending be something you have to dig in deeper to understand? Honestly, I don’t even know what to say about this, because this is not even like subjective opinion or disliking the ending, this is a complete misreading of the Canon, of the way the story Explicitly tells us how things work. You can interpret a lot of things in Homestuck in different ways- But you cannot say that there’s nothing to interpret and the Ending is bad because it pretends there is.

This is the story that the Author himself has called both a Creation Myth- Explicitly telling us the point of the story is a tale about Reality and living in this Reality, with explicit in-comic talk about the place people have in a Universe with Predetermination, Existential Struggles of just about everyone. This is the story the Author called “A story that is also a Puzzle”- Inviting us to read through the story while providing some deeper bits of lore we could piece together to get a wider image of what truly is behind Homestuck. This is a story where the Author himself is a Character- Miss me with the ‘not Meta’ stuff, Hussie is a character, explicitly, in-comic, that affects the story extremely directly. Jade escapes literally through the Fourth Wall. Caliborn takes over the literal narrative of the setting. Homestuck acknowledges itself as a story multiple times.

You can dislike this. You can absolutely dislike this, it’s a preference, but call it what it is, you just not enjoying this kind of story, or not enjoying the direction the narrative took in general compared to your expectations. The intent and symbolism of the comic is exposed, canonically, pretty blatantly, and even more blatantly by word-of-god with Hussie’s old Formspring and Tumblr answers, and I bet it will be even more blatant as the new Books with Commentary come out.

By blaming Hussie and the Comic on your general interest in the deeper themes of the narrative, you’re outright misinterpreting Authorial Intent in order to make you feel better about not understanding a story, and at the same time, refusing to even give it a second thought! You’ve reached the Ending, so I’m assuming this a story you enjoyed. If you enjoy it, do you really want to just walk bitterly away without giving it a chance?

That’s yet ANOTHER thing I don’t quite understand about this kind of criticism, and it is... Okay, you get to the Ending, and are disappointed that a lot of stuff you wanted to see happen didn’t happen, but- And this is not as true anymore, but back during the Act 7 Days, there was militant dislike about the Ending to the point of saying it ruined the rest of the story? It honestly feels extremely childish that an Open End to a story as complex as Homestuck could make you hate the entire story instead of wanting to know more about it, to see if you missed something else!

I sincerely do believe that a lot of people just dragged themselves through the Ending because it was an old Fandom they were in and they wanted to see how it ended, but just weren’t invested in the story anymore at that point, so they went in remembering and taking the shallow details, leaving the depth behind, and then were disappointed when their own lack of interest sabotaged their view of the comic.

Homestuck is dense, it is a Story with a ton of Symbolism and a lot of weird themes, but it’s also incredibly charming with its narrative and its characters. And for that, I am not saying that ‘You SHOULD enjoy the Ending, god dammit!’. I’m not saying that at all. As I’ve said multiple times, you can dislike Symbology in Stories, you can dislike the directions the Story took, you can dislike anything about the comic itself!

But do understand, when you give criticism of the Ending, try not to tangle actual criticism about the Story or the Narrative with Subjective Opinions. You can say you dislike how dark Blade Runner is, but you can’t say Blade Runner is a bad movie because it’s dark.

So if you don’t like Act 7, more power to you. But if you prefer to have something you apparently enjoy enough to have gone through it to the ending, ruined by your headcanons, and leave you bitter instead of seeing if there’s something more to the story or if there was something you missed, well. I feel that’s a little bit silly?

But whether you enjoy the Ending and want to dig deeper into the story and what actually happens in Homestuck, or you think I’m just a dumb fangirl reading too much into a dumb Webcomic and would like to tell me, feel free to send me an ask! I sincerely do enjoy debating about the Comic and what happens in it as long as it’s done in a civilized manner.

Thanks for Playing.

[journeysintowebcomics]

Homestuck Liveblog #174

UPDATE 174: Final Conversations

Last time Davesprite and Nepetasprite had fused, forming a being that feels like it has a good chance to defeat Lord English. And maybe it can! Sprite seems to be have memories of all iterations of their components, so this new sprite may know the components of Lord English – unlikely, but possible. So let’s continue.

Well the new sprite is flying away in their eye-searing glory, all the way to Dirk’s planet, where his apartment has been carefully built like in the original session. Progress! You responsible for this, Arquiusprite? Yeah, he is.

...that’s new. It looks like a petroleum extracting platform. What a weird place to put it in, hm...what could be the function of this? Produce enough grist to get to Skaia? It’s worth pointing that it looks like it was free.

Hah! Yeah, look at all that grist! This may be a void session but that won’t stop the group from achieving the objective of reaching Skaia. Alchemizing a few weapons may be a good idea too, hmmm...they should try mixing the cueball with their weapons, just in case, it wouldn’t be that bad of an idea, in my opinion! Dave may be the one said to deliver the mortal blow with the Welsh sword, but the rest should be able to weaken Lord English with their own effort.

All planets have one of those objects placed on top of the towers, everything being funneled towards Skaia. Looks like I was wrong, because now that I think about it...wasn’t there said that the denizens had an amazing amount of grist stored? This could be it. They’re actually doing a lot of progress in the ‘make a new universe’ front. It has been months since the last time I saw real progress towards that goal, it’s almost surreal to see it happen. The fact it also hammers home that Homestuck is close to ending is a fact, too.

While Arquiusprite observes the events with joy, Davepetasprite approaches. Here comes the big reunion!

...nevermind, here doesn’t come the big reunion. Oh well. Dave and Dirk are watching the developments and discussing them, Dave comparing the former height of their towers to how things are now.

DAVE: damn  DAVE: and i thought our houses were pointlessly tall before  DAVE: it just doesnt stop from keep constantly getting more and more vertically enormous 

Well hey, you have to get from the surface of your planet all the way to a big ball of blue stuff way above you. It’s like trying to reach the moon with a building. There better be an elevator or something here, because even by flying it’s going to take a long while to get to the top.

Dirk and Dave are really alike, of course they are. They both are prone to philosophizing and doing monologues. It’s nice to see them getting along.

Looks like the grist rig is normal equipment for endgame, and indeed, it’s the grist from the denizens’ hoard. The final alchemy is going to happen.

Creating the autoresponder was just a project Dirk did for not really any reason in particular, just to have someone to talk with for kicks and giggles.

DIRK: Creating him was an interesting exercise I guess, but over the years I came to see his development as one of my biggest mistakes.  DIRK: He sort of turned into a monster. But I could never bring myself to get rid of him, or even really blame him for being an asshole, because he wasn't actually that different from me.  DIRK: Like, by definition. 

Well he’s you from when you were thirteen. You grew, but the autoresponder, well, it could be said that he’s still in the same state than it was three years ago. Thirteen-year-old kids aren’t paragons of maturity and social expertise, and even less when it’s a computer.

Apparently the people in the chat in Bro’s websites were bots, not people. Truly Bro and Dirk are the same person. Bro may not have access to imprints of his brain or anything like that, but he still did some quite impressive stuff. Extremely weird, but impressive.

Dave may not be completely used to Bro’s death yet, but talking to Dirk helps to get over it. Forgiving isn’t really the first thought in Dave’s mind, buuuuut, hm, ‘peace of mind’ may be more accurate as to what he wants.

Since Dave doesn’t want to continue the sad talk, he offers to make a lightning round of questions like it happened between him and Roxy. It’s a good way to bond, and the very first thing Dirk asks is how his alternate adult self adopted Dave.

DAVE: i was a baby and i came down to earth on a meteor while riding a pony with a pink heart on its ass  DAVE: he found me in a crater on top of a dead pony and gave me a lil baby pair of shades that look exactly like the ones youre wearin now 

Only seen in Homestuck, everyone. You won’t find such bizarre lines anywhere else. The whole thing with everyone receiving the same rabbit is also brought up. It has been so long since that stuff happened, it has been almost two years for me. It’s almost unbelievable that I have been reading this thing for almost two years. My admiration towards Homestuck may not be as high as it was in the past, but I’ll miss it a bit once it’s over.

DIRK: But if I came to Earth on a meteor the same way you all did, then I guess I just got dunked right in the fucking ocean.  DIRK: Which makes sense. One of my earliest memories is of using Cal as a flotation device.  DIRK: So he sorta saved my life in a way. I guess I bonded with him too, the way your bro did, even if that sounds a bit stupid. 

...how exactly did you get into the apartment and all, Dirk? Especially since adult Dave had placed that ridiculous bust on the door to stop you from going out? You snuck through the window somehow? And how did you survive all these years? It’s already amazing a baby was able to use the puppet as a flotation device and survived. Dirk is truly the kind of person Greek legends talk about.

DIRK: I think I just found a building poking out of the water, climbed up, then I just started foraging for food in there like a feral infant.  DIRK: Supplies which I'm sure your adult self must have left behind for me, seeing as he clearly must have known some things about the future too. 

Who knows, maybe somewhere in the depths of the ocean there’s a stone tablet describing the woes and life of Dirk Strider because really, this is almost Homeric in nature.

I can’t believe of all people Ben Stiller died as a martyr and was the core of a brief righteous insurrection. Hussie, how did you even think stuff like this one? Their conversation continue, touching topics like the Condesce’s hilariously petty ways to screw Dave’s pride and joy, and Dirk’s dating with Jake. For some reason Dave is rather surprised such thing happened.

I guess it says a lot about Dave that a version of him was able to carve himself a name in history and fame despite having pretty much no resources – or so I imagine, since he arrived to Earth on a meteor and all. Take that to heart, Dave, you can do anything if you put your mind into it.

DAVE: i wonder if he had like  DAVE: friends 

Chances are he didn’t. These eight people all have in common that their social lives are largely inexistent. I imagine the adult versions were the same on that regard, although it is pointed that Dave had a lot of contacts in his adult life. None of them in the paleontology field, apparently, much to Dave’s apparent disappointment

DIRK: Maybe some day, when we're both old men, you can live a quiet life tending to your fossils, and I will do the same with my dear collection of simple-minded chat robots fixated on puppet ass.  DAVE: sounds like the fucking life to me 

That’s it, the Striders won’t bond further than this. This here is pretty much the high point of any interactions they’d have. Congratulations, kids, you’re pals now! It even gets to the point where Dave asks Dirk for advice on how to confess certain personal details to his teammates. It’s not stuff that’s outright said, but if I had to guess I’d say it may be everything related to Karkat – given the context of talking to Dirk about Jake.

The reunion between Davepetasprite and Arquiusprite is going rather well, more than I imagined it’d go. Heck, Arquiusprite is even crying! Try to imagine Dirk or Equius crying, that’s the kind of thing that seems impossible.

It’s still weird to see these sprites roleplaying – even more when it’s in ways they wouldn’t do it otherwise, ways I’d prefer not to copy and paste here. Thanks a lot, Striders in these sprites, that was disgusting.

You know, it’d be an otherwise heartwarming moment, but I can’t avoid feeling a tad uncomfortable by the situation because despite their way of talking and all I can’t avoid picturing Dave and Dirk – or, well, a robot version of Dirk – instead of Equius and Nepeta. It gives a weird spin to the whole roleplaying about flexing and the impulses about touching muscles.

I didn’t need to see such detailed image, Hussie, dammit. I’ll spare everyone the disgrace of looking at it. You all owe me a big favor now!

In more pleasant moments, the group is gathering again, Kanaya and Roxy reuniting with John, Rose and Terezi, surely to share news such as the matriorb. That’s the kind of joyful news everyone should hear about!

ROXY: dropped callie off with jade + mayor  ROXY: gave kanaya space egg  ROXY: shit is shaping the heck up  JOHN: nice!

Once another mild reaction to important events from John Egbert. How many times stuff like this has happened already? It’s pretty much a running gag by now. He’s focusing more on the hummingbird than in these important news. These shocking developments that should otherwise brought big reactions are brushed aside without any fanfare.

KANAYA: If Someone Is Able To Light The Forge That Is 

Ah, right, that’s something that needs to be done. I’m not completely sure what its exact function is, but it’s important. How does one do that, again? I thought Jade had done it long ago and that was why Jade’s land defrosted, but looks like I was mistaken.

KANAYA: In Our Session By This Time It Was Trivial  KANAYA: Under Present Circumstances I Think It Will Be  KANAYA: Tricky  JOHN: huh?  KANAYA: Every Magic Ring I Am Aware Of Is Currently In Use  KANAYA: Some By Friends And Some By Foes 

So to finish Sburb they need to make a reenactment of Lord of the Rings. Will John go mad at the last moment and then it’ll end with Dave slicing John’s hand off and Jack falling into the volcano? I don’t think that’s farfetched at all.

Everyone is notified Karkaroni is currently busy meditating.

JOHN: um.  JOHN: this doesn't sound like something karkat would do.  JOHN: are you sure this isn't some sort of bullshit?  KANAYA: Its Definitely True And Not Bullshit Lets Change The Topic

Thank you for realizing how unlikely it is! Leave it up to John to know when there’s shenanigans afoot. Not that there’s anything anyone here can do about Karkaroni besides leaving him in that cave in Jade’s planet. Leave the poor guy rest and maybe once he wakes up everything’ll be over. He’ll be royally pissed, but it’ll all be over.

Once Rose says a very Dave line, John discusses the plan: go fight the Condesce at Derse. Everyone ready?

JOHN: never forget, team work is our secret weapon here.  JOHN: probably the most powerful weapon we have!  JOHN: second ONLY, perhaps, to the power of friendship itself.  JOHN: remember that, guys.  JOHN: as long as we have team work, friendship, and cool powers on our side, we can't lose.  JOHN: you are my best friends ever... rose and roxy, and kanaya and terezi, and dave and jade and karkat, and also jane and dirk and jake, and... 

Call me a skeptic but I don’t think you’re going to defeat the Condesce through the power of friendship, John, there’ll be no cleansing laser ray ala Carebears. Better get ready to fight with all your might. That aside, that really was a very John speech.

It’s time for the fights. Terezi is called so she can get on road to Dirk’s planet and get ready for the fight she’ll be at. Wow, things are starting to converge into the point where fighting is going to happen. This is going to be tough! John gives a parting shot of calling Terezi an idiot because I suppose this budding black romance really is going to happen, hah.

Flying through a big black void gives Terezi a lot of time to talk, time she uses to message Vriska without receiving reply. It’s a monologue, pretty much.

GC: 1T'S B33N 4 GOOD F3W Y34RS  GC: 4 MUCH B3TT3R T1M3 TH4N 1 PROB4BLY D3S3RV3D TO H4V3, CONS1D3R1NG...  GC: WH4T 1 4LMOST D1D  GC: TH4NK GOD 1 D1DN'T  GC: W3LL  GC: TH4NK JOHN, 1 GU3SS  GC: H3'S 4 GOOD K1D 

I wonder if Terezi got told the exact details of what her other self did, you know, regaining her eyesight, the kismesisitude with Gamzee, getting drunk with soda...it’s things like that that’ll make her happy the timeline didn’t go in that direction.

Despite everything that has happened, Terezi can’t bring herself to tell everyone how glad she’s to have them around, and she keeps comparing herself to Vriska, especially the part about Vriska speaking her mind without caring about consequences.

GC: 1 KNOW YOU TH1NK 1'M W34K FOR N33D1NG YOU  GC: NOT TH4T YOU'D 3V3R T3LL M3 TH4T  GC: 1T'S N1C3 TH4T YOU C4R3D 3NOUGH N3V3R TO J4B M3 4BOUT 1T  GC: BUT 1 COULD 4LW4YS S3NS3 1T  GC: TH4T YOU KN3W  GC: YOU KN3W 1 D3P3ND3D MOR3 ON YOU TH4N YOU D1D ON M3  GC: 4ND YOU P1TY M3 FOR 1T  GC: 1 M34N, NOT L1K3, M4L1C1OUSLY 

Thanks for having that bit of decency, Vriska, jeez.

If there’s one good thing that came out of this new timeline in terms of characterization it is that Terezi seems more satisfied with herself and who she is, compared to how she was before. It’s still not perfect at all, but it’s better, and all the credit goes to John and Vriska.

GC: 1 W4SN'T R34LLY 3XP3CT1NG TO T3LL YOU 4LL TH4T  GC: 1 JUST W4NT3D TO C4TCH YOU B3FOR3 YOU GO OFF TO B4TTL3, 4ND W1SH YOU "LUCK" >:]  GC: 4ND TO L3T YOU KNOW HOW 1MPORT4NT YOU'V3 B33N TO M3, 1N 4 W4Y TH4T W4SN'T L1K3  GC: CLOUD3D BY OUR USU4L TR4SH T4LK 4ND M1ND G4M3S 

Well that was always something everyone could see, me as a reader had noticed it since Act 5. Hussie did do a good job in making Terezi appreciate Vriska, that was very well written. Vriska may not reciprocate such feelings with the same intensity than Terezi, but I think she does feel them to some amount – and that’s as good as one can expect of her.

I’m stopping here for now, the battles are looming even closer now. Things are bound to get hectic in the near future! Thank you for reading!

Next update: next time

[journeysintowebcomics]

Homestuck Liveblog #170

UPDATE 170: Dave Gets His Epiphany

Last time Hussie had decided it was time to pour even more dialogue onto the readers, since last time it hadn’t been enough, hah! Ten different dialogue options – presented linearly, in a subversion of how this usually goes. So let’s continue with what may or may not be the last chance these characters have of talking to each other before the fights.

So I heard that hovering over the options one already cleared would show images, and that was right! There are images. It seems Dave and Dirk continue just...lying around awkwardly, and Vriska and her ghost are arguing while Meenah fantasizes about varied stuff. There’s more than can be done, although the very next option is Roxy being alone. She’s still trying to create the matriorb. Calliope is sitting right in front of her, in silent support role. Roxy channels the universe and Alternia’s complicated state of matters, and...

Well! Mission accomplished! That was easier than I thought it’d be, even with Calliope’s silent help. I suppose there wasn’t more time for delaying this any longer. Kanaya is going to be immensely happy the troll race will be resurrected now. This was a short detour, completely devoid of words but with a significant development – at least to complete quite some part of Roxy and Kanaya’s arcs and goals in this story.

Unfortunately for everyone involved, Roxy and Calliope leave right when the bizarre combination that is Jasprosesprite arrives to hassle Jane for a while longer. I’m crossing my fingers this’ll be quick and painless.

JASPROSESPRITE^2: Miss me Rose?  JASPROSESPRITE^2: Did you know I love you?? Weird thing for me to say and you to hear, probably!  JASPROSESPRITE^2: I inherited the adoration our cat had for you, which now strangely is directed with the exact same intensity at myself, because I'm you!  JASPROSESPRITE^2: Funnily enough this manifests itself in a particularly acute form of narcissism, which is something we were already sort of afflicted by, and so was our cat by the very nature of the sort of animal he was!  JASPROSESPRITE^2: The bottom line is I'm pretty twisted up inside in all the most beautiful ways and it's wonderful.  ROSE: It really isn't.

Haha, okay, that one was actually pretty funny. She’s not wrong, Rose, you do tend to have slight traces of narcissism in your personality. Guess that all the increased narcissism in this sprite is what makes it have absolutely no brain-mouth filter, what with having an inflated sense of the self and what one says. Being a cat can’t help that either.

Now that Jasperosesprite made the customary hassling towards Rose, she gets straight to business about the battle plan. She has to arrange with Jane how it’ll be done, after all. This is achieved by taking Jane away without even giving her a moment to prepare. There’s someone she needs to meet, somebody in Jane’s planet.

Ah, true, the denizen. The New Wonderkids’ session was rather lacking in information about the denizens, especially since this session was meant to do pretty much nothing. Given Hussie’s track record so far, I’m almost completely sure that Jane’s talk with the denizen will happen off-screen and the characters will talk about it once it’s done, so...no more option than waiting until this is done!

Damn it , I have been bamboozled! Well played, Hussie, you had me fooled, I admit it. This could be good, though, not everyday you meet a senior version of yourself that’s dressed as a clown and...is the mother of your father. This is time-travel-gone-wrong levels of weird.

Aw, come on, Hussie, I wanted to see this! But nope, just when Nannasprite got in front of Jane the section ended and went to the next. Oh well. I’m really hoping I’ll have the chance to see how this goes, but I’m not going to hold my breath over it. The scribbled images of what the rest of the options are doing show John and Terezi discussing how Rose could have a black romance status with, uh, a version of herself. Yeeeeeeah no, let’s not do that. Doesn’t seem healthy – just ask Karkat, it’d be a headache.

About Roxy and Calliope, they just arrived to what I think is Jade’s planet, and Calliope is told to stay with Jade. I had completely forgotten Jade is still asleep. It’s once again said that it’s nice to have Calliope around. And...that was it! I just summarized around six or so pages in this very short paragraph.

I think that goes way beyond the realm of kismesis behavior Rose...and out of the realm of sanity as well. Stay away from any copies of the Sassacre book, resist the temptation. Anyways, Dave and Dirk are still here. Going to try to talk again? They’re focusing more on the battle to come than on anything else. Hah! No progress on the heartfelt conversation front, apparently.

DAVE: hes got lord english powers tho

It could be a way to know how well a fight against Lord English would go, then. Sure, Union Jack is completely different, less bulky, has no time powers, and presumably has one single personality in that noggin of his instead of being a weird amalgamation, but it’d be a way to see if they are ready to fight against Lord English. Think of it as having training wheels on your bike.

Swords can’t help you solve problems with people, who’d have thought. Dirk and Jake are the closest example to how someone who has spent their formative years alone and without the presence of people around would behave: with no social skills at all. Jade got very lucky in that regard, she is very well-balanced for someone who grew on an island and only had a dog for company. Then again, her Dreamself must have been of help, the Prospitians must have helped her have some people skills.

DIRK: ...  DAVE: ...

Nothing has changed here.

It takes a few pages more before Dirk takes the plunge headfirst down the emotional cliff, with all the grace of a novice. It does get the conversation going, mostly about how this isn’t how he pictured the meeting going.

DIRK: Maybe you'll think it's weird that I idolized some version of you that I never knew. 

These two are much more similar than they each realize. Their upbringings aren’t that different, heck, I’d say that Lil’ Hal fulfilled the role Bro had, just with less sword attacks. Other than that it was pretty much the same, an isolated life with an aloof person/glasses in the vicinity. Come on, Dave, admit you idolized Bro. That’d be a great step towards turning the page in your life and bonding with Dirk, you can do it!

DAVE: ive got to say  DAVE: meeting you  DAVE: its not rockin my world here  DAVE: or upending any paradigms or whatever  DAVE: listening to you and looking at you  DAVE: it really really just  DAVE: reminds me of him

Close enough! I’m a bit downtrodden there was no exchange of words between Bro and Dave so I could have a reference on how similar this actual situation is to how they got along. I imagine Bro wasn’t that different from Dirk.

DIRK: Things, between you and me, from your perspective, um,  DIRK: Are we like, not cool?  DAVE: ..................

I’m not sure if it’s telling or not that there was no ‘yeah’ or similar quick response.

DAVE: i didnt fuckin like you that much ok? 

...

...

...okay, that isn’t how I thought it’d go. I suppose there’s a difference between idolizing and actually liking a person. Good for you for saying it aloud, Dave. It must have been very difficult to say to anybody, even more to a version of your brother.

After a sequence of images meant to show how little time passed between Dave going “I don’t want to talk about it” to “okay heres what im saying” he finally starts...and boy is it tough.

DAVE: i dunno why my friends got to have adults around who cared about them  DAVE: they complained bitterly about stuff so i guess i convinced myself they were all in the same boat as me  DAVE: but thats not how it was 

That’s pretty much how kids and teenagers are, they complain and don’t realize sometimes such complaints aren’t about things as bad as they could be. Leaving behind such behavior is part of growing up. Dave didn’t realize how badly he was being treated, though, he just saw no difference between his life and the lives of the rest of his friends – at first.

DAVE: so all thats left to do is look back and try to put the pieces together of my first 13 years  DAVE: and all i can think is what the fuck WAS that?!  DAVE: i dont come away with the impression i used to try convincing myself of, that he was like "mysterious" or "stern" or "aloof"  DAVE: the only feeling left is this insane impression that i was raised by somebody who fuckin HATED me 

...hated you? Hm...honestly? I don’t know. Bro’s way of raising Dave had a lot of things wrong, and I really don’t know how to interpret it. I’m interested on knowing how other people interpreted it. Would you mind telling me your thoughts, everyone? I really don’t know what to think about this.

Dirk actually sounds horrified about what he’s hearing. Perhaps he doesn’t like the thought of his equivalent doing this all?

DAVE: it took years to deconstruct it all and put it back together to understand how fuckin mad i should be  DAVE: and in particular how stone cold deeply uncared for i was my whole life  DAVE: like... being merely "monitored" by a violent robot 

Haha...you know what this brought to mind? What went through my head right when I read this part?

TT: Don't worry, that's normal.  TT: Upon activation he goes into Stalking Mode.  GT: Stalking mode??  TT: Yes. He will stalk you in the jungle and strike when your guard is down. 

It’s exactly that. Dave pretty much described the robot Dirk made and sent to Jake. It’s pretty much the same in terms of how Dave was raised! Wow, Hussie, did you do this on purpose? I think you did this on purpose! Dave may as well have been raised by the brobot thing, and just like Jake – who dreaded encountering it and once he had to fight it didn’t precisely have loads of fun – Dave now doesn’t want to fight. He wants to avoid this fighting thing, and hates that he has to be the one to grab the sword and slay the villain.

You seriously screwed up here, Bro.

Dave even brings up that maybe things would have been better if Lil’ Cal hadn’t been around. Maybe! The influence of Lord English can’t be an ingredient in a healthy household – even more since part of Lord English is once another version of Dirk. Hah! Life sucks for the Striders. It’s...it’s rather depressing, actually. I wonder if at the time they had to cram Caliborn into the puppet Dave realized what Lil’ Cal was. Even if he did, I doubt he’d have any kind of reaction when anyone was nearby, but at that moment I imagine many things clicked in Dave’s head.

Would Bro have been any different if that puppet of the damned hadn’t been around? Uh...I dunno. Maybe it really was a poisonous influence of some sort, influence Dirk was lucky not to have. It’s all up to interpretation, I’d say.

I think now that the epiphany is complete I can stop the update and continue next time. This, though, this is exactly what I was hoping the Striders would do, that at least one of them would unload this heavy emotional baggage, and it’s for the better! I’m glad it’s actually happening.

Next update: three updates