#and it's ultimately that act of love— that gesture of “It doesn't matter how scared I am myself. I won't let you face this alone”—

[sincerely-sofie]

You're scared you'll never care about someone. You're scared you never have. You don't know how much love is held in your chest. You never will.

[lemonhemlock]

People act like parent-child relationships are super simple when Alicent is involved.

1) Otto:

Bit of a tangent but in my country (Spith Africa) when you're in grade 9 you u choose your subjects for grade 10 and maths is a must however you can choose which maths uore doing maths literacy or maths core. People who arent the best at maths should do maths literacy but you come across do many who choose maths core and other subjects they hate/have extreme difficulty with/zero interest in because of parental influence. They don't want to disappoint their parents and go against their wishes.

Now back to the show Otto tells Alicent to endear herself to Viserys in order to become queen. Otto is her father, ultimately he has a say in who she marries. She lives with him. We also see she struggles with anxiety. How exactly will she stand up to him in an epic girl boss move, in a medieval setting, when people these days struggle to do so with their own parents. It's not easy to go against your parents wishes and its especially not easy to disappoint them. What would Otto have done if she refused? If he was willing to pimp her out yo a man old enough to be her father, who basically killed his first wife would he sell her to a Ramsay Bolton type if it benefited him? Better the devil you know right?

2) her children.

Alicent was a child herself when she was forced to have them. She had to grow up fast and we see her struggle with anxiety and PPD, she has little to no support system around. The servants are there to assist but its their job. She has no one to looking out for her mental wellbeing. She is isolated and trapped in a golden cage by a dragon.

With Aegon she struggles with him because he shirks his duties and doesn't take anything seriously when his situation is a matter of life and death. She is scared for him and the others but he doesn't get it. People were calling Ned an idiot for nor securing his family's safety before working against Cersei but when Alicent does exactly that she's an awful mom.

When she tells Aegon he is not her son she is struggling to reconcile the image of her little that she raised on her own, the boy she tried to impart wisdom on with someone who would commit a monstrous act, something his (absent) father did to her. But she still loves him. She might not always like him but she was willing to stand between him and a literal dragon. Everything she has done has been for him and his siblings.

Helaena

One thing I find interesting and tragic about this relationship is that Alicent's main love languagea are acts of service and physical touch.(acts of service is her trying to keep the family together and securing peoples positions and safety. Physical touch in moments where words have failed her) She used it Rhaenrya alot when they were younger and she tries to use it on her children. Helaena has a touch aversion so we see her pulling away from her touch. (Which is why thstvone scene they actually hug is so beautiful)

Alicent nevertheless tries a different method, whole spending time together she asks Helaena about bugs. Yes she looks bored because the topic doesn't interest her but she is trying to engage with her(as someone who hyperfixtates then infodumps, this is enough. "Thank you for letting me vent about this even if you don't care about it" cause it shows that you at the care about me)

Aemond is her dutiful son who does his absolute best. She was distraught when he lost an eye and we see him return her physical gestures when she needs comfort.

Her love for her children is unconditional. She would do anything for them no matter what. She's not a perfect mom, but what parent is 100% perfect, but for a single teen mother of three, whose children's lives are constantly at stake she has done a damn good job.

Thank for furthering the Alicent agenda, chaotic coffee queen. We need brave soldiers out there fighting on the frontlines!

I agree with everything you said above. People have so much energy for hating Alicent as a mother, yet so very little for hating Viserys as a father. He is a footnote in his own family, yet viewers act as if his negligence couldn't possibly amount to behavioural issues in his own children or that Alicent should have somehow made up for it. As if anyone could erase parental abandonment.

One thing I find interesting and tragic about this relationship is that Alicent's main love languagea are acts of service and physical touch.(acts of service is her trying to keep the family together and securing peoples positions and safety. Physical touch in moments where words have failed her)

^^^ This. Alicent is bone-weary and has trouble expressing her emotions, especially in a way that gets through to her children. Each of them is so different from the other and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. It's hard for her to calibrate her strategies to perfectly tailor every member of her family, as she doesn't have access to the kind of resources we now have for child development.

[roominthecastle]

So you really think that Red is Illya? I got the feeling that Dom outright lied to Liz. This lovesick puppy act since childhood really doesn't fit, imo. It's like Red feels guilty about using Katarina to accomplish his own ends. He respected and was attracted to her (similar to Samar) but I don't think he ever truly loved her. I don't think he is Illya at all, but one who (like the real Red) got scapegoated for something Katarina did, lost his fam, and so used her & her childhood friend Illya.

Yes, for now I remain convinced that Ilya == our Red. And the “lovesick puppy act” fits, imo, but I do share your views on the rest + I got another message that ties into this nicely, so more on all of this behind the compulsory cut bc yes, it’s long again:

Everything that’s been hinted about Red’s past over the years (took on RR’s identity, was close to Katarina, knows Dom quite well, “difficult child”, Russian mother, well-versed in tradecraft, etc.) fits Ilya, so why would Ilya be a random third person in an episode that draws on all these clues to reveal another layer of our Red? If our Red was someone else who used Kat & Ilya, then why didn’t we see at least a firm hint of him doing that? This would have been the time to intro him given that we are ~6 years in now w/ one, maybe 2 more years to go.

I agree that what Dom told Liz is not the whole story (and the missing parts are gonna end up producing a much darker and less flattering picture when they are revealed) but the broad strokes are true, imo. If this whole ep is a lie, then this whole ep was kinda pointless to show us bc if Ilya is not our Red, then we see nothing of our Red in the very episode that is meant to provide us w/ a glimpse into his past and his ties to Kat and Dom.

I know many fans have issues w/ Ilya for various reasons (mostly for two, 1. he is not related to Liz at all and 2. he had feelings for Kat at some point) but I think Gabriel did an excellent job and his Ilya fits the bill for me:

Ilya is our Red ~30 years ago from Dom’s (forgiving/sugarcoated) perspective

3 decades – esp those 3 that Red has lived through – do change ppl, so Ilya having traces of the man we know today but not his fully developed persona and “code of conduct” is how it should be

“lovesick puppy” is what our Red is around Liz, too. he often embodies the “Dulcinea Effect” trope, too, and, generally speaking, he has problems managing emotional attachments (despite excelling at business relationships), so it makes sense to me that it’s already present in Ilya and the way he acts around Kat.

and Dom flat out lying to Liz is… why? he has nothing to gain by lying and everything to lose if Liz finds out that yet. another. dude. lied. to her face. That’s exactly why Red landed in prison, too, so pissing Liz off is really not the way to go.

There could be something to the manipulation angle, tho. I have another ask about this, too:

Red is a first-class manipulator w/ attachment management issues, so any question that begins with “is it possible he manipulated…” gets a yes from me, anon #2. He loves Liz, he is willing to die for her every time they run out of options, but love also doesn’t prevent him from pushing his secret agenda and using her to further it w/o letting her in on what it is exactly that he’s doing and why. This duality (fiercely protecting her while also carrying out a secret, death-magnet mission) is their “conflict engine” and is understandably a major issue for Liz. This behavior is what finally drives Dembe away, too, imo. He already warned Red in S4: “People are dying all around you.” Mr. Kaplan also kept telling him that he must change. Dom has the exact same complaint about his dogged and dangerous behavior. Everybody who knows him well seems to agree on this one thing.

So I think it’s entirely possible Red/Ilya did the same dance w/ Kat, as well. He genuinely cared for her but he also had his own agenda when he took on Reddington’s identity, one we don’t fully know yet, one that likely got her killed, one that Dom is still struggling to forgive him for. This whole thing was Ilya/Red’s idea and once he came up w/ it, he didn’t let go until he convinced Kat to go along w/ it.

“Rassvet” overshadows its lead-in episode but we get a quality build-up for this in 618 when Dom is all up in Red’s grill again:

Dom: *gestures at the cooler*Red: Thank you.Dom: Might as well offer. You’d take one whether I wantedyou to or not.Red: A beer?Dom: A beer. A life. You do what you want, no matter what Ithink.Red: Which you find unforgivable.Dom: You want to know what I find unforgivable? You notseeing how forgiving I am.Red: You forgiving? You forgave Katarina. But not me.

if we add to this bits from previous conversations like

“It was a Hobson’s choice. There was a woman and her child. Both were doomed. Both would die. I could either saveone or lose both. I chosethe child. It was… it was the worstthing I’ve ever had to do in my life. Worst thing by far. […] I was arrogant.” - Red, 319

“She’s gone because of choices you made for both of them. First Katarina andthen Masha. As far asI’m concerned, you killed myentire family!” - Dom, 320

Red: She deceivedme, faked herown death. At thetime, she wanted to getaway from me.Dom: Ha! Well, so do I.Red: I know you’ve been conditioned to assume my selfishness. I’m sure that’slargely my fault. You don’thave to believe me or help meor like me. You neverhave. I don’t know whyyou’d have to start now.But this isn’t about me, Dom. This is about Masha. If I don’t come back–Dom: You always come back!Red: If I don’t come back, you need to find her, Dom. Tell her who you are. I have to go. I’m sorry.Dom: For what?Red: All of it. I wish I’d been the person you wanted me to be.

“I’m not sure Elizabeth will ever be ready to learn about what you did to Katarina.” - Dembe, 422

it certainly reveals how Dom’s “Rassvet” story is incomplete and depicts Ilya/Red more like the person he wanted him to be and less like the one he actually was/is. If Ilya/Red purposefully neglected to inform Kat about what it was exactly that he intended to do w/ Reddington’s identity and it was too late to back out once they started, if he was playing his signature “I’m telling you a truth but I’m never telling you everything” game already, then Dom’s behavior makes sense: he believes Kat had no real choice since she was not aware what she was walking into when she agreed to Ilya/Red’s plan and this got her killed. Ilya/Red’s mission is an inherently noble one but not even inherently noble ends justify every means.

And then the exact same thing happened when Ilya/Red showed up in Liz’s life w/ his blacklist, telling her “I wanna help you. That’s why I am here.” when his motivations were far more complex and calculated from the start, and Liz is still not fully grasping them. But she is already questioning why he kept the fake identity, which is truly the key to everything. Dom’s story might not have been entirely faithful to reality, but while Liz previously had no handle on the million questions strategically obscuring Red from full view – so she had no real chance to unmask him –, now her attention is focused on the one question that can lead her straight to the truth. Dom – unintentionally or not – gave her a shortcut. Red knows what this means and he is scared.

I think what we ultimately have here is a conflict of true love and calculated/manipulative behavior that’s wrapped together to serve a semi-obscured mission motivated by a semi-obscured past. With Liz, Red has a second chance, a chance to right things he did wrong with Katarina -- but only if he is willing to adjust his behavior and start treating her as a real partner.