#and it all starts out wonderful with well-intentioned men at the helm like harry king and even moist

[weepylucifer]

glorious 25th makes me think again about that one idea i once had for a discworld spinoff set in the future that would deal with the natural conclusion to the industrial revolution arc: communism comes to discworld

[ginmo]

Do you think JB will end together? Like, marrying and maybe even having kids? I know it’s a lot to hope in asoiaf universe, but I so wish they would!

GRRM is aiming for a bittersweet ending. There’s even a quote from him saying that he already knows who’s going to marry who. 

“I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters.” [x]

He clarified that “major characters” includes the main Lannisters. This was said in 2016, after his last asoiaf book, which means marriage is for future books. It could literally be any pairing for one of the major characters, or multiple pairings. My point is, there will be at least one marriage for the major characters that didn’t happen on the show. Personally? I think there’s going to be a couple, and whether or not Jaime and/or Brienne dies by the end, they’ll still be one of them. This is going to be kinda long…..

Brienne - Marriage 

Brienne was introduced to us on an unrequited love plot line.

Brienne was on her feet as well. “Your Grace, give me but a moment to don my mail. You should not be without protection.” King Renly smiled. “If I am not safe in the heart of Lord Caswell’s castle, with my own host around me, one sword will make no matter … not even your sword, Brienne. Sit and eat. If I have need of you, I’ll send for you.” His words seemed to strike the girl harder than any blow she had taken that afternoon. “As you will, Your Grace.” Brienne sat, eyes downcast.- ACOK

Brienne dropped to her knees. “If I must part from Your Grace, grant me the honor of arming you for battle.” Catelyn heard someone snigger behind her. She loves him, poor thing, she thought sadly. She’d play his squire just to touch him, and never care how great a fool they think her. - ACOK

And what’s emphasized in her first PoV?

Renly Baratheon had been more than a king to her. She had loved him since first he came to Tarth on his leisurely lord’s progress, to mark his coming of age. - AFFC

Reciprocated love is her arc. The first time we meet her she’s described as crushing hard on Renly Baratheon, and it’s during the melee at Bitterbridge. The melee is brought up again in AFFC, during one of Brienne’s PoV chapters.

In the mělée at Bitterbridge she had sought out her suitors and battered them one by one, Farrow and Ambrose and Bushy, Mark Mullendore and Raymond Nayland and Will the Stork. She had ridden over Harry Sawyer and broken Robin Potter’s helm, giving him a nasty scar. And when the last of them had fallen, the Mother had delivered Connington to her. This time Ser Ronnet held a sword and not a rose. Every blow she dealt him was sweeter than a kiss.

Loras Tyrell had been the last to face her wroth that day. He’d never courted her, had hardly looked at her at all, but he bore three golden roses on his shield that day, and Brienne hated roses. The sight of them had given her a furious strength. She went to sleep dreaming of the fight they’d had, and of Ser Jaime fastening a rainbow cloak about her shoulders.- AFFC

Let’s look at the structure. The paragraph before Brienne falls asleep is setting up the context for the dream. Paragraph #1 is specifically referencing the men who participated in the bet as her suitors, thus connecting the mělée to an element of her dark, romantic history as Brienne knocks every asshole into the dirt with blows sweeter than a kiss.

Paragraph #2, still connected to the romance theme of paragraph #1, transitions into Brienne falling asleep and dreaming of her last fight with Loras. She then gets cloaked.

Keep in mind that in a wedding ceremony, the groom places a cloak of his house colors around the bride’s shoulders. Now, knowing a professional author is writing this, and there’s a romance theme established in paragraph #1 with the term suitors, and if we’re continuing the theme, in her dream the KG cloaking is symbolic of a wedding ceremony.

Unlike the show’s garbage interpretation of Brienne, her life-long dream has never been about becoming a member some kingsguard (also note, knight and kingsguard are not synonymous. You can become a knight without swearing your life away to a KG). This is why she joined Renly’s:

Renly Baratheon had been more than a king to her. She had loved him since first he came to Tarth on his leisurely lord’s progress, to mark his coming of age. Her father welcomed him with a feast and commanded her to attend; elsewise she would have hidden in her room like some wounded beast. She had been no older than Sansa, more afraid of sniggers than of swords. They will know about the rose, she told Lord Selwyn, they will laugh at me. But the Evenstar would not relent.

And Renly Baratheon had shown her every courtesy, as if she were a proper maid, and pretty. He even danced with her, and in his arms she’d felt and her feet had floated across the floor. Later others begged a dance of her, because of his example. From that day forth, she wanted only to be close to Lord Renly, to serve him and protect him. - AFFC

She literally fell in love with him because he treated her, “as if she were a proper maid, and pretty.” BTW, this is introduced in her first PoV, emphasizing the romance theme to her arc.

Feeling too ugly and unworthy to be a lady, and after three failed betrothals and Brienne crying “bitter tears” over Margaery marrying her king, she left Tarth and pledged her life to Renly in the form of becoming a member of his KG (hmmm joining the kingsguard to be close to someone she loves? Sounds like someone else!). Feeling like a failure as a lady and heir, she played to her more masculine traits and married Renly in the only way she could.

The KG being a form of marriage to her is shown in the dream passage as well, by how after knocking her “suitors” into the dust, she becomes a member of Renly’s KG and essentially marries him. All the suitors are disposed of, but in the end, she allows one man to cloak her.

But… in her dream, the person is no longer Renly LOL. It may be his cloak, but it’s not his face. WHO IS CLOAKING HER? Jaime fucking Lannister.

And guess what? Jaime replaces HER BETROTHED in another dream.

Finally the doors opened, and her betrothed strode into her father’s hall. She tried to greet him as she had been instructed, only to have blood come pouring from her mouth. She had bitten her tongue off as she waited. She spat it at the young knight’s feet, and saw the disgust on his face. “Brienne the Beauty,” he said in a mocking tone.

“I have seen sows more beautiful than you.” He tossed the rose in her face. As he walked away, the griffins on his cloak rippled and blurred and changed to lions. Jaime! she wanted to cry. Jaime, come back for me! But her tongue lay on the floor by the rose, drowned in blood. -AFFC

This is romantic rejection from an actual event that happened to her, and Brienne is unable to stop her betrothed (who turned into Jaime in the dream) from walking away, but GRRM LITERALLY SAID HIS INTENT WAS BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, and since we were introduced to her on an unrequited love plot, with love always being a cruel joke to her, with romantic rejection and how she’s been so unworthy and undesirable as a lover smacking us in the face, RECIPROCATED LOVE IS HER ARC.

And it isn’t just love that’s part of her arc, it’s also MARRIAGE, because it has been connected to marriage.

Brienne - Motherhood

Brienne has a lot of motherly qualities in the books and has also never rejected the idea of being a mother. At one point, she daydreams about her first betrothed and wondered what her life would have been like if he survived childhood.

Had he lived, they would have been wed within a year of her first flowering, and her whole life would have been different. She would not be here now, dressed in man’s mail and carrying a sword, hunting for a dead woman’s child. More like she’d be at Nightsong, swaddling a child of her own and nursing another. It was not a new thought for Brienne. It always made her feel a little sad, but a little relieved as well. - AFFC

Yes, a part of her was relieved. I mean… duh haha. Who wouldn’t be? She was going to marry a stranger, she most likely would have been treated like dirt, she would have been young, and everything about her life would have been different. The point is, the thought still made her sad. If there wasn’t any part of her that desired marriage and motherhood, she would have only felt relief, and, well, “it was not a new thought” for her.

Keep in mind, Brienne thinks she’ll only ever be a fighter because, even though her book personality is very nurturing and motherly, she believes she’s physically unfit to be a lady and mother

“I will tell you true, Brienne. I do not know. My son may be a king, but I am no queen … only a mother who would keep her children safe, however she could.” 

“I am not made to be a mother. I need to fight.” - ACOK

The next bit I wouldn’t really say this is motherhood foreshadowing, but I do still find it interesting that GRRM wanted Catelyn to have a little motherhood discussion with Brienne, when she could have spoken about it to any other character.

“Children are a battle of a different sort.” Catelyn started across the yard. “A battle without banners or warhorns, but no less fierce. Carrying a child, bringing it into the world … your mother will have told you of the pain …” 

“I never knew my mother,” Brienne said. “My father had ladies … a different lady every year, but …”

“Those were no ladies,” Catelyn said. “As hard as birth can be, Brienne, what comes after is even harder. At times I feel as though I am being torn apart. Would that there were five of me, one for each child, so I might keep them all safe.” - ACOK

This next one…

Can it be? Somewhere inside our swordswench is a mother just squirming to give birth. What you really want is a sweet pink babe to suckle at your teat. - AFFC

I mean, it’s Hyle being an ass lol, but I’m not going to ignore the fact an author decided to put that in there, and it’s not the first time the autor connected Brienne to motherhood. 

Also…

“A daughter.” Brienne’s eyes filled with tears. “He deserves that. A daughter who could sing to him and grace his hall and bear him grandsons. He deserves a son too, a strong and gallant son to bring honor to his name. Galladon drowned when I was four and he was eight, though, and Alysanne and Arianne died still in the cradle. I am the only child the gods let him keep. The freakish one, not fit to be a son *or* daughter.” - AFFC

She IS fit to be both! That’s the point! She bitterly thinks that, due to her insecurities. Brienne’s arc: lady, wife, mother, warrior/knight, heir. Her character exists to embrace the outwardly masculine and inwardly feminine traits, becoming it all and redefining what it means to be a lady and woman in that society. 

Jaime - Marriage and Fatherhood

The narrative purpose of Barristan Selmy being released from the KG is to show that it’s possible for members to be dismissed. “A kingsguard serves for life” is mentioned THREE TIMES in ASOS, about Jaime.

“I can,” he interrupted. “And I will. There’s precedent. I’ll look in the White Book and find it, if you like. Crippled or whole, a knight of the Kingsguard serves for life.” - ASOS

“Tywin regarded Jaime as his rightful heir.”

“*Jaime* … Jaime has taken vows. The Kingsguard serve for life.” - ASOS

“I am a knight of the Kingsguard. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard! And that’s all I mean to be!” - ASOS

I think it’s safe to assume he’s going to be removed from the KG at some point in the books (I suspected for years that Jaime would be released from the KG, so when it happened on the show… well, my thoughts on the show: here). The narrative purpose of releasing Jaime from the KG is to release him from vows, to free him up for marriage and be heir. That’s literally why Tywin wanted him to leave the KG in the first place.

Have some bitter Jaime thoughts.

That was the first time that Jaime understood. It was not his skill with sword and lance that had won him his white cloak, nor any feats of valor he’d performed against the Kingswood Brotherhood. Aerys had chosen him to spite his father, to rob Lord Tywin of his heir.

Even now, all these years later, the thought was bitter. And that day, as he’d ridden south in his new white cloak to guard an empty castle, it had been almost too much to stomach. He would have ripped the cloak off then and there if he could have, but it was too late. He had said the words whilst half the realm looked on, and a Kingsguard served for life. 

Part of Jaime’s arc is to step into that role of heir. He did something stupid and out of love in his youth, and now he’s rediscovering his identity.

As for becoming a father…

Perhaps he was the monster they claimed. If the Father Above came down to offer him back his son or his hand, Jaime knew which he would choose. He had a second son, after all, and seed enough for many more. If Cersei wants another child I’ll give her one … and this time I’ll hold him, and the Others take those who do not like it. Robert was rotting in his grave, and Jaime was sick of lies. 

He turned abruptly and galloped back to find Brienne. Gods know why I bother. She is the least companionable creature I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet. -ASOS

Okay okay look at this. There’s a couple of things to unpack here. 

Jaime never cared for Joffrey. That’s not a secret. If he were to make a decision about choosing joffrey and his hand, it’s implied he’d choose his hand. But then he justifies this by basically saying, “because he was rotten and I have another son anyway and I can always have more children” which shows that the idea of being a father is actually something of value to him. He ACTUALLY WANTS TO FATHER- “this time I’ll hold him.” Which to me is saying that fatherhood is part of his arc, because why else would that development be thrown in there? Sure, it can be there to show he’s maturing as a character and is desiring to be a responsible parent to Tommen, but then what’s the point of throwing in the detail about MAKING MORE children? Wanting to raise them FROM BIRTH this time? And, looking at structure, notice the transition from that paragraph to the next? 

Jaime was sick of lies.

He turned abruptly and galloped back to find Brienne. Gods know why I bother.

LMFAO

WHAT

Jaime thinking about producing future children and how he wants to raise his next child -> Jaime is SICK OF LIES (this is before “He’s lied to you a thousand times, and so have I” And before he finds out about the affairs btw LOL just wait Jaime you’ll be extra fed up) -> WHERE’S BRIENNE? WAIT, GODS, WHY AM I DOING THIS? THIS ISN’T FORESHADOWING SHE’S MY FUTURE OR ANYTHING 

GRRM as the Gods, knowing why he bothers

In AFFC, GRRM still explores this fatherhood desire, even without Cersei.

Once he found the Blackfish, he would be free to return to King’s Landing, where he belonged. My place is with my king. With my son. Would Tommen want to know that? The truth could cost the boy his throne. Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer. He does like stamping papers with his seal. The boy might not even believe him, to be sure. Cersei would say it was a lie. My sweet sister, the deceiver. He would need to find some way to winkle Tommen from her clutches before the boy became another Joffrey. And whilst at that, he should find the lad a new small council too. If Cersei can be put aside, Ser Kevan may agree to serve as Tommen’s Hand. - AFFC

And FOR ONE OF MY FAVORITES

Unbidden, his thoughts went to Brienne of Tarth. Stupid stubborn ugly wench. He wondered where she was. Father, give her strength. Almost a prayer … but was it the god he was invoking, the Father Above whose towering gilded likeness glimmered in the candlelight across the sept? Or was he praying to the corpse that lay before him? Does it matter? They never listened, either one. The Warrior had been Jaime’s god since he was old enough to hold a sword. Other men might be fathers, sons, husbands, but never Jaime Lannister, whose sword was as golden as his hair. He was a warrior, and that was all he would ever be. - AFFC

Jaime’s thoughts, unbidden, go to Brienne when he’s thinking of his men getting women pregnant BTW LOL, and this passage SCREAMS the fatherhood theme.

After thinking of women getting pregnant he PRAYS TO THE FATHER FOR BRIENNE. Whether it’s the god or his own father doesn’t matter. The point is, he’s making a connection to Father while praying to keep Brienne safe. And then he thinks about how the Warrior was always his god and, “other men might be fathers, sons, husbands, but never Jaime Lannister, whose sword was as golden as his hair.” WHY?! Why is that bit in there? In the same paragraph? And then end with a sentence that sounds BITTER AF about how he’ll only ever be a warrior? why the fuck did it just jump from Jaime thinking about Brienne, to praying to the father and then “LOL BUT THE WARRIOR let’s randomly talk about my identity”….?? It’s literally completely irrelevant? Unless…the author is connecting Jaime to THE FATHER for him to begin identifying with A DIFFERENT GOD because THAT’S HIS FUTURE and he’s hinting that BRIENNE IS THE ONE TO GIVE HIM THAT WHICH IS WHY HE NEEDS HER SAFE. (And of course Jaime isn’t consciously making these connections, I’m talking about the author’s foreshadowing decisions)

AGAIN

and this time I’ll hold him, and the Others take those who do not like it. Robert was rotting in his grave, and Jaime was sick of lies.

He turned abruptly and galloped back to find Brienne. Gods know why I bother.

And last but not least, the weirdest argument:

“Okay but if Brienne marries Jaime she’d be a lady and he’d make her be something she isn’t.” 

This has always been a really funny argument and my favorite response to this is, “Jaime didn’t give her a valyrian steel sword to make a sandwich with it.” 

Anyway, GRRM once said Brienne is Sansa with a sword. As mentioned above, Brienne never rejected her title as a lady as she does on the show. Book!Brienne ran away because she felt too ugly to be a proper lady. Her insecurities and the mockery she endured caused her to shy away from anything outwardly feminine.

Keeping in mind that Jaime and Brienne are literally designed to be BatB, imo it’s not a coincidence that Jaime and Brienne only think they’ll ever be warriors.

THEY WON’T. 

They’re both going to finally experience genuine reciprocated love, fuck, get married, and maybe parent and if you strongly believe one of them has to die before the end of this then all of this will happen before that death I SAID WHAT I SAID.