#and i'm counting the Sif thing as torture even if it's funny

[worstloki]

i don’t really think it’s fair to say or imply that Loki was Mobius’ slave, or even the TVA’s. Mobius is just doin his job for one. And for another, Loki is a criminal, even if he wasn’t in his right mind when he invaded earth, he still invaded it. he does still have to pay for that, and in that light, the TVA went easy on him. Maybe their relationship shouldn’t have been presented as quite so friendly, but I think they were friends by the end of the season and saying all this awful stuff about Mobius being Loki’s jailer captor enslaver torturer and whatever…it’s too far and there’s no real canon basis for it.

ah yes, of course, bad things are fine to do if someone has done bad things. because they deserve it. got it.

Listen. I'm not sure what canon you've been watching but forcing someone to work with you under threat of death is bad, lying to and blaming them for future events is bad, putting someone in intentional distress and knowing they will react bad to their mother's death and leaving the images up is bad, telling them that they were born to cause pain and suffering and death (especially when their father is Odin, their siblings are Hela and Thor) is bad, leaving someone getting beaten up and rubbing salt in their fears (even as part of 'breaking them') is bad, casually dehumanizing people (words like "pet" and "my/your Loki" and "the Variant") and pruning/resetting/killing people en masse or on an individual basis once they're of no use to you is bad, I'm not even going to continue this list because the TVA itself has such BAD vibes it's literally an authority that's enforcing it's own turn of events and calling it 'sacred' with people like Mobius/B-15/Renslayer pushing their agenda forward because they simply believe it's for the greater good while invalidating Loki's questions until the point where they personally find out they were also Variants (and still express no remorse/mention of any moral argument or lives taken, they just comment on how they could've been happy before).

Like, buddy, pal, I don't know how to tell you this but Mobius is very clearly psychologically torturing Loki in episode 1 in order to break him down and get him to join their side, I would even argue that he physically does so in exercising control of where Loki can move or how he reacts with the collar after riling him up. He does the same thing in episode 4 even more explicitly for everyone who missed it.

Arguing he advocates for or sees the best in Loki is something that doesn't have a canon basis. Every "that's not how I see it," "Is that possible? He can change?" "You could be whoever, whatever you wanna be, even someone good" is surrounded by interrogation tactics and "give my regards to Lady Sif" "What a incredible seismic narcissist" "He's softening in the Time Cell, but while he marinates..." "Just kind of an asshole and a bad friend. Yeah, chew on that for a little bit" "And, hey, if it doesn't work, I'll delete him myself."

There is explicit canon basis of these things, and whether you'd rather not acknowledge them is up to you, and I don't blame you for thinking otherwise since the narrative frames Mobius as some kind of moral pillar of righteous goodness (he ain't) and has he and Loki use the words "friends," but I want it on record I don't use words like slave or torturer or abuser lightly, and don't recall having used slaver/enslaver/captor/jailer for Mobius like you've implied either, though some of the words you've got listed would be accurate descriptions, I'd think, since Loki's only option was work for the TVA or die - until the end of Episode 3, after which he was accused of having 'betrayed' Mobius and been a 'bad friend'.

I'm not even going to address "i don’t really think it’s fair to say or imply that Loki was Mobius’ slave, or even the TVA’s [slave]" "mobius us just doin his job" "the TVA went easy on him" or "maybe their relationship shouldn’t have been presented as quite so friendly" because I don't think I'm capable of doing that without some strong language and a lot of caps lock and this post is already long enough I think.

I also want it noted that Loki's hardly done anything worse than the hero characters. Just because he's been framed as an antagonist doesn't make his own actions worse or theirs better, so do please feel free to apply the same logic you are on what Loki deserves on them too.

Here's relevant posts in the event you wish to read up: (on Mobius' inherent goodness and his job) (on Mobius' take on Frigga) (the holy grail of Loki (2021) meta masterposts) (on Loki supposedly learning to care in the show) (thor 1 loki doesn't deserve bad treatment)

[elenatria]

Since they didn't show Valkyrie's death I'll just assume she's alive and well, probably off on another planet with Lady Sif. But I'm still salty of how Thor conveniently forgot to use his newly found control of lightning, like wtf? Russo brothers did you not watch Ragnarok or did you just decide to scrap it and tell us that it's not canon? What is going on? (Ps. Loki is totally alive, even though Hiddleston is only marked as 'post-production' part of "IW" pt.2.)

Yeah, it’s called “Thanos’ plot armour”.

“Watch out for his fingers, they make sparks.”

You know I was just thinking of Valkyrie. If I saw her and Loki die, I wouldn’t know who to choose to bring back.

 IW conveniently left some major gaps in the storytelling. Maaaaajor gaps. Like yeah, whatever happened to Valkyrie (and Korg)? How come Thor couldn’t use his lightning? Maybe he was afraid to use it inside a spaceship. But he DID use it here.

Oh wait, that’s one of those omitted trailer scenes. Maybe it was omitted exactly because it was inconsistent with Thor being unable to use his lightning when the Statesman was attacked by Thanos.

Suddenly Thor needed a weapon again to channel his power of lightning. 

Joss Whedon has been accused by SJW’s of being a misogynist for having Natasha feel like a monster because she couldn’t have children.

Well, let me jump on the bandwagon too, go all anti-toxic masculinity and call out the Avengers films (NOT the Russo films because I still believe The Winter Soldier and Civil War are the best MCU films ever) on being all about endless, longer than necessary battles and super weapons and gadgets. Gadgets gadgets gadgets. Films that were made for boys with toys.

Boys, always remember, you’re nothing unless you have a big dick or a big car or the next expensive gadget. “The power within” that Taika made a pitch for simply. Doesn’t. Sell. Marvel can’t make money out of thin air.

“But it’s comic book canoooooooon, stop blaming Stormbreaker for everything!!!11″

Sure. But it’s also very beautiful merchandise.

And Thor’s inability to use his lightning power in the Statesman is STILL inconsistent with “that other MCU film”.

You know what? Maybe the Grandmaster was right. Maybe those lightnings were just sparkles. Just for show.

*shakes head*.

Also, t’s funny how many things Thor knows about the Infinity Stones or about Thanos decimating Xandar to get the Power Stone for the purpose of hasty   quick exposition. Also he mentions that Thanos “slaughtered half his people”. Nice one, Thor, nice gap in the storytelling to fill in later. So I assume Thor knows somehow that half his people have survived? (a fact we didn’t see) Did that happen before Thanos entered the Statesman? Were they teleported somewhere with the help of Heimdall and Valkyrie as their leader? Did they jump on life boats? Or was Thor hanging there, struggling in Thanos’ hands, counting the corpses and thinking “One two three four five… oh that’s not all of them, they must have escaped somehow, phew.” But I didn’t hear any wailing as it happens when people are not dead but conscious, severely injured and lying on the ground.

It seems to me Thanos gave him a little speech recounting his adventures so far before grabbing his body and torturing him in front of Loki. Like, a very detailed speech that we didn’t see.

Lol yesterday I got a troll-under-the-guise-of-a-friend telling me that “one Taika film cannot undo decades of work” (I’m assuming they meant comic book canon, because the MCU has been around for only a decade, not decadeS. Also I’m sure they copied that phrase from somewhere on tumblr, sounds like all the other Taika-hating pet phrases). I wonder, is this the new tumblr trend, shitting on Taika now that the new MCU film is out? What a great opportunity for all those who hated Ragnarok for all these months (for Tom/Loki-stanning purposes I guess) to hide behind IW now and use it as an excuse to hate on the previous MCU film. Quite convenient. Personally I don’t follow the comics, I follow MCU canon. And if the MCU cannot be consistent with its own movies then I’m sure it’s not Taika’s fault.

Tom is marked as “post-production”? What does that even mean?… o__O

Well of course Loki is alive. But let me tell you this. 

I’m not saying Loki isn’t dead.

I’m just saying, with all those convenient plot holes they left in the movie (his body not turning back to its Jotun form etc etc)  they could bring him back any time they choose. Next year, when the new Thor film is out, in a decade from now, whenever. WHENEVER.

Right now he has a 50% chance of being alive.

Like Schrödinger’s cat.