#and i know people have said that the well of sorrows choice matters in veilguard

[hellomehlo]

the thought of playing veilguard for the first time with no approval guides or idea of how our choices in inquisition are impacting the narrative…

ngl I feel a little nauseous

[wetcatspellcaster]

Veilguard Thoughts

(my sort-of review, more of a ramble, below the cut in case of spoilers)

I had particularly low expectations for this game, as it felt to me like it was rushed out to try and hit the BG3 crowd and get them to pay £70 at the point where their hyperfixation was failing them. It felt like a very commercially-motivated decision, and I tried to modify my expectations accordingly.

I then started playing... and had to modify my expectations again.

But with two lowering of expectations completed... I genuinely enjoyed this game! I had fun! Sort of! if I squint!!

Thoughts!

I am not a competent gamer, so I like combat that feels fun and engaging without being challenging or a chore (cough, BG3 Act 3, cough), but without being lazy either. I played as a mage in Veilguard and I felt like this hit a sweet spot - moments where I was stressed kind-of invested, no moments when I was bored. The graphics for mage (for spellblade particularly) were awesome and badass, and I loved to new mode of engaging with the mage class in orb and dagger.

I understand the frustration with a lot of lore being retconned, ignored, or wilfully erased or moved away from. Some parts I understood: I do think Veilguard tries to make a move away from grimdark, not out of disloyalty to the franchise and it's roots, but bc grimdark is a very different prospect now than when Origins released. it's a genre that gets a lot more criticism and bad press, and that some people feel genuinely uncomfortable perpetuating as a results. While Origins is my favourite dragon age game, there's a lot of insane things you need to just let slide to enjoy it - like the fact that multiple origins begin with some kind of rape and sexual assault if you're playing as a woman. I don't think retconning that stuff is anything other than being politically savvy, and a little more sensitive to how fantasy has changed.

(I also think this is why they've moved away from the chantry conflict to be honest. Like the optics of Christian religions in fantasy has also changed, and let's be honest, Dragon Age had already fucked THAT, multiple times.)

I did however, like everyone, find it a bit disheartening to see how little Keep decisions mattered. Why is there no Keiran with Morrigan? why can't Mythal move to an inquisitor who drank the Well of Sorrows instead? why is my Inquisitor defending Solas when she ended the game hating him? Why is Hawke being in the Fade meaningless? I know this is just echoing what people have already said, but it was sad to see the 'conclusion' to the franchise (that probably isn't the end, let's be honest, not now that people paid £70 for an underwritten game) was even less satisfying in terms of choice and agency than ME3

This game deliberately skewed itself to read as a 'better DA2', than a 'worse, rushed inquistion'. IDK, it just makes me feel a bit grossed out, and manipulated. I mean, we know DA2 can be made in crunch, lads!!!!! :)))

Criticisms!

EVERYTHING is underwritten. The game is woefully short. If I can complete all the sidequests in a game, then something is wrong. The romances, the character arcs, the main quest, the dialogues. Everything was sparse, with the bare bones of a plot, that (in the case of companions quests) was rarely seen through to a full and satisfying conclusion. And I *know* that's not the writers fault, necessarily, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done better.

There's so much potential, but I found that most of the companions could be boiled down to one or two traits, and while I can see people headcanoning reasons for this in real time, it's just... underwriting, or bad writing. Extremely telling to me that both Emmrich and Davrin were my favourite companions... because they had their own companions. That meant that they had multiple story hooks - their professions, their relationships, and then their little guys. They got three things, when most people only got two.

This was particularly egrerious for me with Taash, because they started out amazing, and I ended up being extremely disappointed as I watched both them and their mother being reduced down to flat one-dimension caricatures and a tired queer narrative of 'my parents hate me'. Only, this time, it's 'my immigrant parents hate me'. when you couple the reductive approach to Taash with bioware's inability to write the Qunari well or without falling into Orientalism??? they're suddenly an evil repressive queer phobic religion after being supportive of trans characters in inquisition???? you're telling me Shathann, a woman who was forced into a more feminine role by circumstance but considered herself more genderless/masculine as a scholar, wouldn't be on board with non-binary identity? just galling tbh.

The romances are underwritten. And they are badly written, to me. Luckily I know we'll have fic, but in Inquisition, each romance was 90 minutes worth of content. In Veilguard, Lucanis's romance is the longest... at 18 minutes. It just seems stupid and strange to me - if this game is chasing on BG3's coat-tails, why don't they know everyone is fucking horny?

While I liked the decision to give companions more banter together and flesh out their interpersonal relationships, I felt that the balance was off... probably bc it's cheaper to have two actors share a piece of scripted dialogue, than voice a decision tree. It meant that to me Rook often felt like a bystander in their own story, or excluded from their own found family. HR Manager-core, as it were.

General uselessness of the Lords of Fortune coupled with the Orientalism of the Lords of Fortune.... big sad.

I think the choice between Lace and Davrin is highly!!!! suspect!! do you go with fantasy racism (kill off the only dwarf, thus meaning all your dwarf companions are dead in the game, including the one who represented to future for her people) or the real racism (kill off the black man). I really wish this decision was more reactive, and perhaps based in faction strength or character bond, not just a pre-set choice.

I'll never care about solas, the way trick weekes wants me to care about solas. pretty dumb decision, to make a whole game contingent on this fact.

The ending and epilogue screens were underwhelming, and left the game feeling incomplete to me.

Joys!

To end on a more positive note...

everyone is hot. I honestly think everyone is hot. No other dragon age game had a cast of characters whom i all found attractive. This is unheard of. This is why I know all the fic will be fucking stellar.

And you know who else is hot? Rook. Genuinely one of my favourite DA protagonists! Maybe bc of the faction thing, or just the chemistry of the VA I chose. I just felt like she was pretty fucking hot tbh, and that more people in-game should be taking notice of it. Everyone should stop having conversations with each other and start desiring Rook carnally.

Weisshaupt was genuinely an amazing sequence and questline. In fact, I loved that this game featured Grey Wardens more heavily, and I loved all the lore about Wardens that was introduced.

Assan!! <3 Manfred!!! <3

Bellara and Neve kissing with tongue!!! No, I will not elaborate!!!

(I think that Bellara and Neve were two characters who did have strong stories, and that they should kiss about it.)

Elgarnan and Ghilanain.... never before has a dragon age game known what it's like to have a charismatic villain. This time, we got two. Ghilanain was my favourite, bc I'm fucking gay, but even interactions with Elgarnan and his boss battle felt engaging. I honestly don't think a dragon age game has ever had a good villain before, and these guys were both fucking cool.

[rom-e-o]

This is not hate, but just a somewhat jaded observation. (Tagging for people who want to avoid spoilers)

These are the THREE THINGS from DAI that are going into my Veilguard world state as a human mage that really has no bond with Solas or his mission.

Nothing about whom I chose as Divine (Leliana). Nothing about the Wardens and their potential exile. NOTHING about if the Inquisitor or Morrigan (Morrigan) drank from the Well of Sorrows and bound themselves to an ANCIENT ELVEN GOD? What if Bull died? What if Blackwall died? What if you left Hawke in the Fade??? What if you allowed Empress Celene to be assassinated?

None of that matters, apparently. In a series where the lore of the world and its politics take center stage, that’s a choice.

This is Rook’s experience, yes, but the big DAI choices were treated as having a resounding impact across Thedas.

FROM THIS shot, all we seem to be pulling from a 100-500+ hour experience is who you smooched, if you disbanded the Inquisition (an option at the end of an paid add-on DLC) and your … feelings about Solas. For people who only see him as a intriguing force to be stopped and not as a romance, I feel this whole set-up lacks weight and gravitas.

This looks/feels VERY STRONGLY like BioWare is banking on you romancing Solas or caring about him at all to have a fulfilling experience. I hope I’m wrong.

All that said, I’m still so excited for Veilguard. We won’t know until the FULL game is out of we’ll each care for the team’s execution in narrowing the choices this much.

I’m excited and want to be supportive, but is this STILL disappointing to see at this point, so close to release? Yes.

[babumakeanart]

Here are some of my thoughts about Dragon age Veilguard. There is of course spoilers so read on your regard

I’m so excited we got another Dragon Age game! But do I adore Veilguard as much as the others in the series? Hard to say—I have very mixed feelings about it.

First of all, a lot of the lore we learned in earlier games feels erased or brushed aside here.

For instance, the choice of who drinks from the Veil of Sorrow seems diminished. Seeing Morrigan again wasn’t as thrilling as I’d hoped. Mostly, I kept asking, “Why are you here?” and “What do you mean you have Mythal in you?” She was relieved she didn’t drink from the Veil once she found out Mythal would control her if she did. And now, out of nowhere, she has that power anyway? Generally, I feel like previous choices don’t really matter. Everything feels so predetermined, even scripted, in terms of what will happen, what’s canon, and what isn’t. I get that BioWare had a lot of issues with this game’s development, especially shifting from multiplayer to single-player. But it still feels like many important choices from earlier games didn’t matter. For example, if Morrigan has a child with an archdemon’s soul in him, wouldn’t that mean—by the new lore—that the elven god bound with Urthemiel would still be alive? Didn’t the archdemons make the Evanuris immortal?

And while Rook is a fun and well-written character, I feel like the story should have continued with the Inquisitor. After all, we should get the chance to finish what they started. Even though it is said at the end of DA:I that Solas knows everything about us, the Inquisitor could still choose a new group to surprise him, but they should still lead them.

I did, however, love the ending for Solavellan. It brought closure, which was very very.. damn.. I cried. :’)

When it comes to our companions, I loved a lot of them—they’re all really cool. Yet I do have a few complaints that may be just my personal view but still. 

First, I’m not a fan of how Taash’s nonbinary identity was handled. As a nonbinary person myself, it felt somewhat disrespectful, as if it were written by someone who didn’t understand the experience. Initially, I was excited, but after reflecting, it started to irk me. I cant write all my thoughts well to say what all bothers me about it, other people put it much better into sentences than I would do so I am just leaving this.

I also wish there were more scenes to get to know these characters. There are a fair number of scenes, sure, but everyone seems overly friendly from the start and it didnt feel that they naturally get to know the main character, but that we already know each other for years. 

Despite the conflicts among some companions, there’s this vibe that everyone is just too nice. Does that make sense? Like, even during the Blight in Origins, some companions didn’t like each other and wouldn’t be buddy-buddy over a coffee date. In DA2, companions had strong beliefs that many times clashed, which made them unique. Veilguard feels too friendly—and not just the companions, but Rook and other NPCs as well.

Another minor issue: the romances are too short, which is sad. :(

But enough negativity! 

There’s still a ton of things I freaky love about Veilgaurd

The visuals! When first peek of this game came out I know some people didn’t like the look of it at all, but GOD is freaky stunning! The characters look great, with tons of little detail movements that make them feel alive. Mostly in expression.

 Every location you travel to is unique and beatutiful. I love running around just to take pictures. The cutscenes? Chef’s kiss. WOW

The fighting style was surprisingly enjoyable, too. I’d just finished DA:I

when Veilguard came out, so the adjustment took a minute, but I got into it quickly and ended up loving it. :)

And then, there’s SOLASSS. My poor man, my poor little egg—I love him, and I would die for him!

I loved all the companions’ personalities and stories. Just wish there was more of it.

Honestly, I cried multiple times during this game. :’D The ending was epic, the final battle gave me chills, and it was just...so cool! I could eat every pixel of these scnes.

One thing I would love to see: what would happen if you sided with Solas and tore down the veil. Even with different endings, the veil stays intact. I’d love to know what happens if it’s actually torn down. Would it end the world? Kill tons of people? Actaully realease the blight in full speed?

-

So far, that’s all I’ve got. I’m tired, and my brain’s fried, but I wanted to get my thoughts down. I know I wrote more criticisms than praise, but I really did enjoy the game. What did you all think? Because honestly, Veilguard has hyped me up to replay all the Dragon Age games again! And created all the ideas I have for my ocs in these games.

[swemtpotamtam]

Revisiting this post, even tho the game still hasn't released (don't worry, I will make one more update to the post after I start playing and after I complete it at least once). Now that more time has passed I kinda am okay with the smaller amount of initial choices that carry over from Inquisition, or rather from Trespasser, to be more exact. Still dunno if there will be more additional choices about past entries during dialogues once the game starts but that would be a fun way to include previous choices - or at least have teeny-tiny mentions of them!

As an aside, the points from the first part of this post still kinda stand though, the world should still be interconnected. It's impossible to separate kingdoms and countries in a political and religious way, there will always be some ties. But I am beginning to see the point of view of why these changes were made. I still think that simplifying stuff for the sake of new players is a bit of bs. People aren't stupid, as I said, and do catch on to bits of lore. The desire to understand more will drive them to play the whole series from start to finish which is a win-win for both the newcomers to Dragon Age and for Bioware.

The more I think about it, the more it starts to click - Veilguard has vibes of Dragon Age 2. Both are on a smaller scale than the game before them, both have a more secluded story (albeit, the areas we will visit in Veilguard are more varied than DA2, in the sense that we're not bound to one place and nearby areas only), the character we play as is just an average person (as opposed to the Inquisitor, for example, that was "chosen by fate" in a way), or, at least, Rook does come off that way.

If you think about it, this game's story is going to be from Rook's perspective and I can totally see how they wouldn't really know everything about Southern Thedas and what's happening there just because there's so much stuff going on in their own life. Depending on the faction you choose, your Rook will be preoccupied with internal struggles of Northern Thedas - for example, liberating slaves and, by extent, abolishing slavery if you choose Shadow Dragons. If I were in their shoes, I'd be too busy trying to deal with that tbh <:D

I feel like the Divine of Souther Thedas will probably be addressed - she will likely just be mentioned as Divine Victoria, since no matter who you support for the role - Cassandra, Leliana or Vivienne - ends up being "crowned" as Victoria.

As for the Well of Sorrows, I still dunno what to think (mostly 'cause my inky drank from the Well). It could just be left unresolved because Solas absorbed both the Old God soul that was taken from Kieran and Mythal's soul (or rather a fraction of it) from Flemeth in that scene where they hugged next to an eluvian. After all, Solas refuses to control any and all elves just like the other Elvhenan did, thus making inky free of the Well's master's grasp. It could also be something akin to the logic of "whoever carried Mythal's soul isn't here now so there's no way to control whoever drank from the Well". Or they could go the route of Morrigan getting Mythal's powers - since she can be seen wearing Flemeth's circlet in the trailer (timecode provided in the link). Or they could just simply default to Morrigan being the one who drank from it, which would be a shame, to be honest.

As for the fact that we won't be able to choose inky's class - I've watched a video recently that had a pretty good point about this. Inquisitor is a very important figure, not only a force to be reckoned with but also a person with a lot of political and possibly religious power. And since all eyes will be on them, it would be hard to run into situations spells/blades ablazing without reputational loses. Especially if inky will do that in Tevinter, being perceived as a foreign representative of sorts.

And, connected to the point above, I feel like Rook is Inquisition's agent for a reason. The nickname alone implies a strategical deployment since "rook" is a piece in a game of chess (which also makes me think of Bull and Solas playing a game of chess as part of party banter. The way Solas played was very telling and acted as a foreshadowing of sorts to what happens with his character arc and actions). So they act on their behalf where Inquisitor can't reach on their own. At least, that's how I see it and how it all works in my canon world state.

In conclusion, I am very much excited for Veilguard and looking forward to playing the game. I want to explore all the intricacies, all the character arcs and great writing (as well as amazing character creation). Even if I was a tad frustrated and let down with some of the choice carryover, I'm more than happy to give this game a chance to change my mind even more about that! See y'all in the next update to this post after the game releases!

Yikesss, bioware taking away all the previous choices from the whole series and limiting them to only 3 choices (all of which are trespasser-only) is wild in the worst way possible <:D

The excuse for it being "we don't want new players to get overwhelmed" is weird too 'cause they could've gone with a default world state thing, just like they did with Inquisition if you didn't have saves/Keep info from previous games.

Like, are you telling me that all those things don't matter? Why? Because we're not in Southern Thedas? That's weird 'cause the world is, you know, interconnected. The decisions made in Southern Thedas would still reflect on the Northern part.

I understand that writing all of those things in, tying it all together, is hard but I don't believe that it was straight-up impossible. And using the "new players won't understand" excuse is just.. cheap? People aren't dumb. People can catch on to little details as they go, you don't need to know everything from previous titles to experience the story and enjoy it. In actuality, it gives new players the incentive to go back and play the whole series from Origins to Inquisition, and then replay Veilguard after they've seen everything to make everything click even better now that they possess the knowledge from those older entries.

I just... I dunno. It feels wrong to even just say that the whole of Inquisition can be narrowed down to: 1) who your inky was (race and gender) and who they romanced, 2) if they wanted to hunt down or redeem Solas and 3) if you disbanded the Inquisition or kept it around. What about other choices? What about who became the Divine? Sure, it might not affect Tevinter or any other Northern kingdoms but come on, it still has ties to all those other areas. No Well of Sorrows stuff? That was such a cool and mysterious detail, with no resolution in Trespasser as well. What about Hawke? What about Hero of Ferelden? No mentions at all? Wild 'cause there's a chance that Hawke went to Weisshaupt and also Hero of Ferelden is part of the Grey Warden history. And does this mean that Kieran isn't a thing?

I know that there's still a whole month ahead before we find out everything but this just puts such a sour taste in my mouth.

The game that was all about player agency and consequences just suddenly ditches this whole system.

Edit: I might come around on this whole thing if Veilguard proves that there is a reason why they cut down on choices carrying over. Perhaps they decided to do this because it really is a more secluded story, kinda like it's own little thing with no outright outside connections aside from some cameos. I don't know yet.

But I will likely revisit this post, adding on to it my thoughts and opinions after I get my hands on the game and complete it at least once.