#and i actually do like the change they made regarding alicent and rhaenyra (making them the same age and friends)

[daenerystargaryensgirlfriend]

You know i could've gotten over the fact that they basically changed everything about Alicent and Rhaenyra's characters (no i couldn't), but why does it look like the two sides of the war are Rhaenyra and Alicent? what has Alicent got to do with anything now? she played her part putting her son on the throne, now there's a war coming for Aegon, not Alicent. Yet in the new commercials it's always Emma D'arcy and Olivia Cooke and never Emma D'arcy and Tom Glynn Carney. The chess game commercial was with Emma and Olivia and as much as i like both of them i just think Alicent (for the way hotd writers portraited her in the series) has finished her job. She played the part of the innocent woman that didn't understand what she was doing, now there's a war coming and she's probably not going to be taking any of the next decisions that regard the upcoming battles, so except for praying and tying to stop either Aemond or Aegon i can't really think of a role she can play in s2. She surely won't take part in planning the war since the trailer made it seems like she doesn't want to be at war, so what's her so important and world-changing role that makes her (non-existent) interactions with Rhaenyra more important than the actual conflict going on between the greens and the blacks?

[saltywinteradult]

What’s anon smoking? No one thinks Rhaenyra and Alicent are “true love” this isn’t Once Upon a Time 😂

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are in fact a number of Rhaenicent shippers who do think exactly that, like this anon​ ���who tried to convince me that it's actually Very Radical And Feminist for Alicent to abandon her kids and choose Rhaenyra over them because they are True Love after all! I don't get it either, but there are people who very much do think exactly that.

For the record, I do think that Rhaenyra and Alicent clearly did and probably still do love each other, I just ship Rhaenicent in a "the love was there, it didn't change anything or save anyone because there were just too many forces against it, but it still matters that the love was there" kind of way. Or, to be crass, in a "gay sex will not fix this situation, it'd actually probably make it worse, but I think they should give it a shot anyway" kind of way.

I have no idea what that anon​ is smoking with regard to anything else they said though. Like, literally who has ever made the arguments they were all up in arms about? Are those arguments in the room with us right now?

[arabellasleopardcoat]

im so dissapointed you used to be so neutral and now are hard team black

Am not! I am not on anyone's team. The Blacks have had a much more compelling writing this season, because whoever is writing the show has a thing for them. It's pretty obvious. My comment of the episode last night responds to that, because the Blacks had so much screen time it was impossible to say anything about the Greens.

The only "great change" in stance I had is regarding Alicent. Her writing has proven inconsistent, and she wallows in self pity a bit much. Pretty human of her, but not my thing. As always, I refuse to call any character OOC, because the writers of the show make canon, not me, but in this case I have a hard time reconciling season 1 Alicent with season 2 Alicent.

I am never against cunty women. I am in favor, actually (God knows I loved Cersei) but she rubs me the wrong way and can't explain it. Probably because of the highs and lows of the Criston thing. At first it was strange, having so many sex scenes of them. Then, I was invested and then he got sent away. The lady of the lake scene and the camping trip did nothing for me. Did we really had to use two scenes to see her moping outside the city? They served no purpose on moving the story forward or making her interesting as a character. Neither do some of the Black scenes, but this was higlighted for me because that was they decided to show us of the Greens in a Black-centric episode.

My personal like of dislike of a character doesn't mean I am on their team. I am in constitutional monarchy team. The more I think about the issue, I think you can pull precedents for both teams and that complicates things, which makes me want to scream they need an organized law system. Why? Well, during the Middle Ages, since the nomotetic power was not concetrated in a single clear organ (Like now in the parlament, or the parlament and the president in some countries), there were so many laws contradicting each other that it was impossible to make a sense of things. Most countries when exiting the Middle Ages notice this and the codification movement (Let's write all our laws down as easy to understand as posible) starts after a brief trial run of benevolent absolutism. In England, since they consider the judge as a guarantee against the King's power, it doesn't, but they still organize things.

What I mean with all this is that my gut instinct tells me Viserys' word as an absolute monarch should prevail (Because the King's word is law) but I am unsure of the role Jaehaerys' Great Council plays on this. Since I am familiar with modern constitutional theory and not, you know, canon and feudal law beyond a brief overview, I am unsure of how good a rallying point it is for the Greens. It's not an end-all argument, but I am trying to figure out if it is a weak or strong one. And I still sustain Viserys' word should have been law. We have to understand, even if it is a strong argument, that since he is an organ that produces law, he is modifying it by making Rhaenyra his heir. A new law beats the former, but not if the former is of higher rank. I still think Viserys is above every other law because he is an absolute monarch. They are only nitpicking because they don't like the change he made, sed lex dura lex and all. The team issue for me comes down to legal claim, and not aptitude to rule, thanks to my modern democracy values. If I were to make a choice based only on morality, I would abolish monarchy. If I were to make it based on legalese, I would tell you my (And any law student's) favorite phrase: It depends. You can always find an argument for both.

[scaly-freaks]

The wolf den is one of my favorite books. Really changed the way I write relationships and characters.

(Your) Amara is such a lovable character. You write her with so much love and your love and care for her really shines through in the story. Her vulnerabilities and strength makes her so easy to love and genuinely relate to. She’s a uch a cool and unique character. I’m a huge Amara fan

I’m absolutely loving Alys and Amara ! They’re so weird and adorable? That scene where Alys is acting all creepy imitating aegon and Amara’s like “omg that’s so cool I want to be a witch” was kind of wholesome. I know that Alys and Larys are probably playing some bigger game, but I’m hoping that Alys could be a friend to Amara.

And poor little Jaehaerys and jaehaera!!! As much as I believe that aegon genuinely loves his children, at this point he kind of sees them as cute toys and not as actual human beings. I’m not justifying him separating Amara from Jaehaera, but I also don’t think he understands the severity of his actions - for both Amara and jaehaera - who needs her mom!

Aegon leaving his kids to the nannies was so sad. Alicent’s gone and Amara is banned from seeing jaehaera. But Amara and Jaehaerys bonding was adorable.

Aegon is being his usual self, making everyone’s life miserable because he feels rejected by someone he loves. He’s really not as smart as he thinks he is. Getting a new lover to make Amara jealous? He has tried that before and it didn’t work!! He’s just reaffirming her belief that she shouldn’t let herself love him.

Aahh thank you so much :')

I hear so many i don't read OC fics and urgh I hate OC fics they're just author self-inserts so it made me a little 'eh' about it at first. I think OCs are fucking amazing, and they may start out as author self-inserts but as they experience more of the plot, they take on a life of their own, so I really don't understand the vitriol against them. Besides, all literature is author self-insert to an extent. It is coming out of someone's brain, and you expect it not to be coloured with who they are as a person? Don't be daft. Even y/n fiction is author self-insert because they're the ones writing it.

Though I suppose I understand any objections if the OC in question is a Targaryen sister/daughter, rides three dragons, kills Alicent and Alys Rivers and Aegon, rides Aemond, makes Rhaenyra queen, and then becomes queen herself.

Not to get kinky over the Alys-Amara thing (age gap...I support this one), but I had this vivid scene in my head where she and Amara...you know, do stuff, and in the middle of it, Alys starts speaking with Aegon's voice, so it's like he's there with them. And it wreaks havoc on Amara, and she orgasms almost immediately with Alys between her legs (and Aegon's voice down there too...okay I'll stop). Anyway, I bet Amara would be the first to try and suggest Alys fucks the pair of them together, and I don't know how Aegon feels about sharing but I hope he says yes (it'd be the first time he actually sees Amara being pleasured by someone else, whereas she's seen him literally pounding Mirian).

Aegon absolutely loves his children, and I think is afraid his inactivity in regards to them will turn him into Viserys 2.0. But being too proactive is also detrimental as we're now seeing. I do headcanon that both Jaehaera and Jaehaerys grow up to be very violent people, but they actively understand their father and in an almost sociopathic way, hide the worst of themselves from him so he never suspects a thing. Everyone else suffers, but Aegon of course believes his own kids (ironically, he does turn into Viserys but just takes a different road).

"Aegon is being his usual self, making everyone’s life miserable because he feels rejected by someone he loves." I love this because yep, exactly. He can be very clever when he wants to be, but not when he's clouded by love, and the need to be loved the way he loves others. He thinks just because someone isn't crawling all over him and whimpering and blubbering the way he devolves to, that means they don't love him as much. He's not good at empathy, which is something I wrote in specifically as part of his canon character being raised as a prince. It was just a bit of fun. Of course it was, Aegon. It was fun for you, but you don't understand how it couldn't possibly be fun for someone else.

I didn't want to fall into the trap of getting Amara to "fix" him though, so she makes her own mistakes in regards to his behaviour, and then suffers/makes him suffer. She still doesn't get why he acts the way he does, but sometimes it clicks and she does what's best for herself (as she should).

[horizon-verizon]

The fact that Alicent surrounds herself with mentally unstable people, Cole and Larys, and is surprised when they act out, but continues to have them in her service. Also, despite seemingly being horrified, she did not turn Larys in for kinslaying and continued to have him as her ally. She benefitted from the death of Lyonel and Harwin by writing to her father and convincing him to return.

So her being privately upset at what Larys did doesn’t really mean anything if she doesn’t actually punish him and actually benefits from his crime. I would respect Alicent if she stopped with the holier than thou attitude and just owned up to the fact that she isn’t morally better than anyone else, and is willing to do whatever it takes to put her son on the throne. But since she doesn’t and still thinks she’s a better person than everyone, I hate her.

Sorry but she’s genuinely so infuriating. Her words inadvertedly got the father of Rhaenyra’s children (and her lover of 10 YEARS) killed and she’s harboring & protecting his killer and she STILL try to maim/murder Harwin’s son and look at Rhaenyra as if she’s the worst person in the world for... not raping her gay husband ?? I didn’t expect her to be friendly with Rhaenyra but Jesus Christ, a little humbleness would be nice.

I genuinely think that bk!Alicent would be similar in that she'd believe she was righteously getting the throne by any means for her sons. She also self victimizes at least twice in the record, once when she says Rhaenyra is too vengeful regarding her plan to kill Aemond and Alicent says "bastard blood she din war", the other time when she tasks her granddaughter to kill Aegon III. This is her expressing how righteous she believed herself to be, right towards her own death.

My problem with show!Alicent is that the show itself is unconsciously consciously making Alicent's abuse the motivation for us viewers to think how she thinks is truly correct, even though they will show Aemond and Aegon being much more violent and out of what little control she already didn't have over them. It's not so much that they are trying to say the greens were always the "good" guys or the protagonists so much that they are changing the female lead characters of canon (again, GRRM himself has described Rhaenyra as not like show!her) to reflect a reductive outlook on female nobles and how they try to obtain more power for themselves apart from their husbands and children by using the patriarchally given powers and privileges and what sort of access and influence they hold available to them. Alicent is much less intelligent, Rhaenyra much less defiant and self-focused. So we the audience witness these women as more...psychologically feeble than GRRM made them. Even with people pointing out the whole Rhaenyra wasn't as militaristically active or using mother's grief to take them out of this action that takes up the most spectacular parts of the Dance story. even with Rhaenyra of the show maybe being more "active", she still reads as psychologically tampered to me. Benevolent sexism on the writers' parts. Why can't women be fierce and or flawed, violent, etc. esp when part of it is a response to them not allowed the freedoms or privileges they are trying to obtain? It's further emphasized by both the inconsistencies, contradictions of characterization/dialouge, lore holes, AND how they tend to tack on actions, words, or traits at the last minute instead of developing these women they create...precisely because they didn't really think too hard about these women's motivations.

Alicent's and Rhaenys' "peacefulness-guide-violent-men" are both characterized as undebatable standards of morality when the situation they are in really doesn't call for it or allow it. So the whole "no war" business acts as an out-of-touch, condescending commentary the writers use to evaluate the moral characters of several characters' actions and push the responsibility of the war more on Rhaenyra than on most greens, too. How can we really look askance or hold the greens accountable when the show refuses to explore the many unprovoked sexist & homophobic and bastard-phobic comments each one makes BEFORE Luke's death? When Borros doesn't? When there is no Maris using Aemond's insecurity about his masculinity against him? They don't show what Rhaenyra/her family is up against, how it was never about "the realm's" safety or Rhaenyra's character but their own desire for power. Sure they'd be psychologically messed up by this proclivity for position/rule-following-above-personhood/love...that doesn't erase their power-seeking motivation being their top characterization either! Some say this is unrealistic of the bk!greens. I say, why? People are like this in the real world, and it'd be compounded by the greens being royals with 3 out of 4 male possible candidates in a monarchist feudal not-as-challenged patriarchal world!

Yes, they try to show how Alicent is hypocritical...but many times, they don't allow Daemon or Rhaenrya to directly challenge Alicent or Otto, like how in episode 3 Alicent says to Rhaenyra to not mind the politics of men...when Rhaenyra is heir...and these two are supposed to have been close enough friends for Alicent to supposed to have accepted that Rhaenyra's struggles with Aemma's state/her position/how Viserys treats her, etc. and not just dismiss them as her not removing herself from "man's business"...and Alicent at the same time saying Rhaenyra "must make the effort" to Viserys while she doesn't "make the effort" to let her supposed friend really try to confront her own detractors or think of ways to stifle their influence over Viserys. Much less acknowledge their threat.

So Alicent reads as more unpalatably, pathetic self righteous to people, instead of deliciously hypocritical. Because she's both shown to be so vulnerable and correct at times while the show switches up on us and shows her hypocrisies as if they are saying "see, we know who this woman is...but also, she's making some points".

No the actual text that Gyldayn writes is highly biased and probably ignores or definitely doesn't have critical information about certain events...but there is still the matter of this story having begun with a "disagreement" about the deserving of women's anger AND positions.

IDK if I made this very clear, but if at first you don't succeed...

[bohemian-nights]

"Such reasons are Ryan's self-insert, Aemond"

Where did this come from? Ryan mentioned Ramsay and the Mountain in the same sentence with Aemond and hinted that Aemond will reach their level in villainy lmao. Aemond is framed as a villain in most of his scenes as adult (at least in the scenes with the Strongs). Ryan talked about his love of Aegon 2 but I don't remember him saying that about Aemond. And he seems to really love Rhaenyra and Alicent, why do people act like Aemond is his fav because he is more complicated than he is in the book so far? He killed Luke accidentally, but the showrunners literally did a similar thing with Cole and Beesbury, and Alicent crowns Aegon by a misunderstanding. Most characters were whitewashed, not just Aemond, even Daemon was whitewashed and has been made much cooler cause he is not a pedo for starters, he is obsessed with his brother, not just power-hungry like in the book, and he is shown as the most badass character in many scenes, like at the Stepstones or in the scene with Vermithor that exists just because.

😬 Respectfully I’m going to have to disagree.

Ryan says a lot of stuff, but I tend to look at actions rather than words because words are ultimately meaningless(especially in regards to this show)

I like Aemond, but in book canon, he is quite something. I straight up dislike Rhaenyra and think that everything that happened to her in the end was deserved(I will be cheering Aegon on when does her in), but even I would will admit he’s misogynistic towards her(he's the one who should be calling her a whore and not Ser Vaemond).

He’s never bullied in the books for not having a dragon(adding that in the show feels like a justification for his behavior; the strong boys keep taunting him so of course he’s going to defend himself). Obese Gollum (aka book!Viserys) literally offered to take him to Dragonstone to find a dragon egg, but he didn’t feel a dragon egg was good enough when he could have Vhagar.

He’s arrogant as hell while in the show it seems like he was a bullied kid who was trying to stick it to his bullies.

The Cole and Beesbury(let’s be honest no one cares about him) thing isn’t really a good comparison.

Originally they were going to keep Luke’s death book canon but somewhere in production, it got changed to it being an accident on Aemond’s part. I suspect that the reason why this was is because Luke is Missy Anne’s beloved son.

Having Aemond kill him in cold blood(especially when Luke is so small in comparison) makes him look outright villainous rather than settling an old debt.

So taking all of that into account if Ryan was going to make him into a psychopath he’s already failed at that and I doubt Aemond will ever reach Ramsey and Mountain levels. (Nor should he because Aemond, even book Aemond who should be in therapy, isn’t an actual psychopath like the other two).

There are some key moments where they could’ve worked in Aemond being two seconds away from a genocidal manic, but all they’ve shown is a boy who loves his mama, a victim of ostracization, bullying, and parental neglect.

I really do get your point, because in a way everyone on this show has kinda been screwed over, including Aemond, but I think that with Aemond they tried to make him into someone you would root for despite his oopses.

All I will say about the Aegon situation is that you don’t make characters you love into outright rapists when you are trying to humanize them and make them likable. They could’ve taken out the rape bits and shown him as a man boy struggling to deal with parental neglect so he’s turned to alcohol to cope. It’s not perfect, but people can empathize with that. However him being a rapist is where most people will draw the line. Ryan may not have said he loved Aemond, but he did a lot more to mellow him out than he did for Aegon.

In regards to Daemon, he definitely has not been whitewashed. If anything he has been made worse. He’s still shown to be a pedo(creeping on Rhaenyra ashen she’s 15) getting with someone he considers a child(Laena cause she’s even younger than Miss Maegor). He killed his first wife in cold blood, neglected Laena(who was his most beloved wife in the book), and choked out Missy Anne.

Let’s not forget that Nettles, the person whom he loved without an ulterior motive, who shows he cares for more than just the throne and isn’t just a heartless Valyrian supremacist, is MIA.

He’s also the voice of reason on the Black council and isn’t just trying to rush into war, but that was axed in favor of Let’s attack the Greens because they killed my walking corpse of a big brother🤪

All the good parts of Daemon have been stripped away to make him into the big bad man(so far). I won’t disagree that Daemon has been shown as a badass in the show, but he’s a badass in the books as well(ex. Six men or Sixty; The Battle Above the Gods Eye; challenging Laena’s betrothed to a duel and winning her hand, etc).

That’s literally the only thing they haven’t taken away from him.

Being a badass is great and all, but that’s not a positive trait(How many villains can you name that are badass? Darth Vadar anyone? Scar, Thanos, The Joker), especially when you combine it with all the other stuff Daemon has done.

He’s not just supposed to be a badass brute. He has a personality. Ryan Condal is severely limiting him.

[weirsight]

hotd 2.03

so, what's going on with the intro? is it gonna change every episode or every other episode?

couldn't afford to show us burning mill and i only assume it's b/c of budgetary restraints.

rip bracken twink. you had great hair. 🐎

love that they've called back to luke gouging out aemond's eye twice, now. that really was the beginning of everything. first blood had already been drawn on driftmark. 🗡️👁️

she still cannot call them her brothers or sister, it's always 'alicent's son' and at this point i would rather she just say half-siblings like in the book. seriously, it's making the dialogue clunky.

grover tully 🐟 continuing to catch strays left and right.

building tension by seeding animosity between aegon and aemond would make far more sense if there had been a scene or two of the fallout from luke's murder + jaehaerys' murder. instead, they're clutching onto this "greedy younger brother wants the throne" narrative with aemond that just feels so trite without the proper context.

i don't mean to harp on this too much, but it genuinely warms my heart that somebody on that production team listened to the criticism and toned down mysaria's accent, b/c sonoya mizuno didn't deserve to be a human shield for all the ridicule that character got in s1.

i NEED the show to STOP telling me what a GOOD MONARCH™️ rhaenyra is by having her personality and actions propagated by other women in a moment of solidarity which feels like nothing more than shallow #girlpower

the only way i can accept rhaena being treated as an afterthought by her family (feelings i'm glad that she gets to express to baela, at the very least), is if her time in the vale with jeyne arryn is showcased as being worthwhile. seriously, the amount of politically savvy women in asoiaf + got who don't have a dragon is not inconsiderable! show the audience the benefits of being a highborn lady by developing a friendship/mentorship with rhaena, jeyne, and even jessamyn.

larys being the most hated member of his family ... check's out.

now, i'm wondering if it was just the presence of daemon + caraxes that got house strong to fold so easily, or had they been planning anything ahead of time, because simon was suspiciously accommodating.

there she is, the witch queen of harrenhal herself. look forward to seeing what you can do, ms. rivers.

also, stop writing dialogue to be used for online memes and just make these characters sound as if they're actually from the world they inhabit.

i genuinely welcome any sort of discussion about race and class in regards to criston cole, but to have gwayne hightower be the one who spouts microaggressions towards him is ... a choice, i guess. gonna need to see where this goes. 🤔

ok no, this is going to bother me if i don't state just how much more interesting it would've made criston as a character if they had shown him navigating his life at court beyond just his position as rhaenyra and alicent's sworn sword in s1! why not show us the microaggressions he faces daily from the highborn lords and ladies at the red keep as a lowborn dornishman, instead of just relegating him to the "thug" which many people in-universe and IRL see him as? 😒

as much as corlys went on and on about his legacy, he sure has nothing to say when it comes to the idea of rhaena being heir to driftmark.

i kinda understand what they were going for in the scene between helaena and alicent, in that the former is absolving her mother of any guilt she must be feeling. while it's nice to have both of them communicating with each other, however awkwardly, it still would've meant so much more if alicent had been present to endure the tragedy with her daughter. they would've truly been united in their grief if b&c had been more of a straightforward adaptation.

the amount of screentime dedicated to introducing (and in some cases reintroducing) smallfolk characters is such a mixed bag, because in the back of my mind i'm worried about the potential for rhaena's storyline to merge with nettles. if all this time and energy can be spent shooting scenes which establish several of the dragonseeds ... except for the one canonically black woman, then that's very telling.

you know what? i'm just gonna say it. the whole brothel subplot feels absolutely vapid. imo, it's just a retread of an already shallow subplot that happened in early got when benioff & weiss made up ros and inserted her with tyrion/varys/littlefinger under the flimsy excuse of needing a smallfolk pov. like, if sylvie never shows up again after this and is not the character i'm guessing she's supposed to be, then what the fuck is the entire point of her being here?

it's utterly redundant b/c readers know that aemond begins a relationship with alys rivers, so they're trying to set the stage for her by implying he likes older women and/or has an oedipal complex which is just ... so ... fucking ... banal!

listen, i appreciate ewan for having the courage to go fully nude (especially in the wake of the gross body shaming people were doing last week), but the entire context surrounding it doesn't achieve the level of importance or resonance condal & co. think it does. it's mediocre fanservice wasting valuable time that could've been dedicated to showcasing aemond's relationship with other members of his family.

it's also just a useless chekov's gun that i'm assuming will misfire in the next episode if the leaks are to be believed.

while it's nice to see 'baela the brave' in action, i know that it's filler for rook's rest ................. but, it's good filler. it's short and sweet characterization for someone who has been a glorified extra, but a hopeful precursor to the events that take place on dragonstone towards the end of the dance. plus, i'm surprised by how much i like moondancer's design. she's cute. 🐉

CURSE. OF. HARRENHAL. LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

listen, as wonderful as it is to see milly again, i can't help but think it says something that they brought her back to act opposite matt in the same episode that they made a non-canonical scene where emma acts opposite olivia. hint: it's because daemyra has no chemistry.

you're going to tell me that when all rhaenyra's council are jumping up her ass to do something after an attempted assassination ... the writers decided to have her go on an undercover mission into king's landing to secretly convene with alicent ... with 1 guard? no advice from rhaenys, no outrage from her council?? how does she get off dragonstone with a single guard and no one making a fuss??? not even syrax follows her???? 🤯🤯🤯

great, so that entire prophecy + miscommunication subplot amounted to absolutely nothing at all. it was never going to prevent the dance from happening and ultimately it's not going to solve the issue of the others/white walkers 172 years beyond the lifetime of these people and their descendants.

[lumyart]

i think you should keep writing frustrating what-do-you-mean-we’re-just-friends situations in golden melodies especially if you want to and especially if you still have ideas in that regard. i don’t think it’d become boring or anything on the contrary to me it’s been so fun to read because you’ve made it pretty organic like for example now alicent knows she’s in love with rhaenyra she’s clear about it but she’s afraid/in denial?? and that honestly makes total sense and feels very ic for alicent and particularly for THIS alicent who you’ve constructed in a way that fits this behavior. and on the other hand rhaenyra has been clear about her feelings for alicent for years now but she thinks alicent doesn’t reciprocates her feelings (and yeah i’d think the same considering how alicent has been in so much denial all these years) and is resigned to that idea which also feels v much ic for this rhaenyra who’s so very eager to be enough but never seems to achieve it?? and you even have reasons to justify the sprinkles of (soveryhot) sex they’re having because … hormones right? 🥺 poor alicent is not like she really wants rhaenyra it’s just pregnancy hormones!!!

what i mean with all this text is … i know you intended to write a silly lil piece of fun with this one and imho you totally succeeded but the reason you did is because you constructed a good story behind it you gave us well rounded characters and even a plot that no matter how many times you call silly it makes sense and it justified a lot of the stuff you’ve thrown our way. so please … if you wanna keep writing frustrating stupid lil *gasps* and they were roommates scenarios with these two PLEASE do it. you should be able to do it lum to explore whatever you wanna explore with your writing and to write as relaxed or as “stupid” as you wish. so please do because believe me i’ll be here to be your mfcking personal cheerleader all the way to the end as usual

honestly, the first part about me doing what i want to pretty much sums up what i should choose😭 like, i started writing golden melodies for this part of the plot, and i love it so much that knowing it would soon end made me a lot less motivated to write it, which should only mean one thing - i need to do whatever i love best and right now that's writing them as stupid, madly in love friends

you're right, their dynamics have changed a bit now, especially for Alicent, and that should give me some more time to explore their "friendship" while exploring the shift in their feelings. i think one of the reason i felt like hurrying up with their confession is that i love writing their inner feelings and thoughts and it does sometimes feel like i'm going in circles, but that's not insurmountable and i could probably work on that

and yeah, i do feel it would be sad to not make them use the excuse of hormones to justify having sex when that would fit the plot so well - and probably be the only time they have an actual, proper excuse that doesn't sound completely made up😭

thank you so much for sending this, it helped a lot with my current struggles with golden melodies<33 there's still so much to do and so many fun scenarios i have in mind, it would be sad to throw them all away, especially since i'll never write another fic with this plot :o literally got all of my inspiration back, so thank youuu a lot!!!🥰❤️

[ladymorghul]

I'm definitely more than a little worried on how they've handled Helaena thus far and how they'll continue to handle her going forward. Regarding Dreamfyre, the official HotD HBO website says that Helaena rarely rides her. I guess that they wanted to differentiate her from her siblings more since they're more devoted dragonriders than her, such as Aemond (or at least I'm assuming they all are), and having her being more concerned with dragon dreams than by actual dragons. But when it comes to her children we have little to nothing shown on-screen, the twins are barely even acknowledged, and Maelor might even not exist if it weren't for the opening titles.

And then there's Helaena herself, who I think is genuinely the least developed member of the greens besides Daeron, who hasn't even appeared yet. Like, there's so much around her that we barely spend time on. Does she understand her visions at all, or do they just come to her and she's unable to make sense of it? Is she frustrated at her family for brushing off her prophecies, or is she unable to communicate to them what's going to happen? Does she even seek to change the outcome, or does she think she has no control over it happening? How did she feel, when she was first betrothed to Aegon? Did she care about being betrothed to her brother, presumably not by her will? How does she feel about her children with him? Did she want them in the first place? Does she love them unconditionally or take comfort in them, or is there baggage associated with them because they're the product of a distant marriage? How does she feel about being crowned Queen? Did she want the crown at all, or really didn't want it, or is she simply willing to wear it because at her family's behest? Does she have ambitions, or is she simply going with the flow of what happens? (and could this be related to her prophetic visions of the future?) How does she feel about her father and Rhaenyra, and the various politics that everyone partook in? (Aemond's eye, Vaemond's petition, etc.) How much does she believe in her family's goal of crowning Aegon? Is it because she's worried about her family being targeted if Rhaenyra comes to power, or is it simply her being dutiful and loyal to her family, or is she a very reluctant participant? The thing that's keeping me from being totally pessimistic is that they were able to make Alicent, Aemond, and even Aegon to a degree complex and even sympathetic. Especially Aemond, since he was only there for half of the episodes but he feels like a very well-rounded character compared to his book version, with the relatively little screentime spent we spent with him. So like, I can hope they can pull off the same with Helaena.

Like, they need to do A LOT of heavy lifting in the first half of S2 if they want B&C to have an actual emotional impact. I'm hoping, since the year-long time skips are over, that they'll slow the pace down and spend the time developing Helaena that she deserves.

i am also worried about helaena but at the same time, i’m expecting disappointment.

i love the questions you posed about helaena and would be so interested to see the show answer at the very least half of them, but i don’t think they will. 

not only do i think they don’t care about helaena as a character as much as we do, but they’re also moving the plot entirely too fast. 

personally i’m afraid that s2 itself will start with b&c early on so we won’t get much time with her prior to tragedy striking and her falling into depression 

and since i don’t think the writers will deviate her story from her book story this just makes me all sad because they made her a dreamer but she can’t do anything about it. she sees what will happen, she tries to communicate it but it doesn’t get through and she can’t stop it from happening 

at least helaena in the books was described as a happy girl and that she would make a good mother until b&c happened and everything changed 

i love that helaena is a dreamer but if helaena being a dreamer is just their way of adding one more layer to her character that just makes her sadder and more stressed and unable to connect with her mother at all (which people percieve as helaena and alicent having a bad relationship) until the inevitable death of her children, her depression and her jumping out the window then....that’s messed up for this poor girl. 

not only did they not give her more agency, they added another layer of trauma of living with prophetic dreams that she can’t properly communicate but will also not change 

i am not as optimistic as you though simply because the idea that they made alicent, aemond and aegon more sympathetic seems untrue to me to a certain degree. yes, alicent is more sympathetic, but she’s still one of the most hated characters in the show, at times on par with otto. with aegon they did the opposite. they made him a drunk rapist who watches people fight. aemond is albeit the only one who gets more sympathy because they didn’t make him intentionally kill lucerys, but that’s not completely positive from an audience POV. 

in the end, most people still don’t like the greens under any circumstances and personally i think there were moments when the writers tried to make them sympathetic but those were very few and they generally didn’t know what to do with them. and i still think the show is 100% working hard on making team black look like the only choice the audience should have

but yeah, agree so much with you about helaena. they could have tried so much harder to develop her. 

[zeciex]

I just read GRRM's rant about season 2. The man must be tired of people coming to him, gaining his trust to start a project, and then destroying his work. I'm guessing he's read the scripts for season 3 and is pissed off about the changes they're going to make.

Yeah, I got the same vibes.

I also understand his frustration, because you'd expect that when someone decides to make a show based on books, they'd at least try to understand the theme of the story that's told; try and understand the characters and what makes them great, and then add to the nuances of the story. But as Ryan said, he is making it into something HE wants to see--he's making it into HIS story as though its not a story that has already been told. And there's a lot of... either blatant disregard of characters/characteristics and underlying themes.

I understand that when a book is being adapted, some things are either impractical, too expensive or understandable, and so they must change. But they set out doing MAJOR changes by making Alicent and Rhaenyra friends--and I think it worked well enough in season one, but then they sacrificed BOTH characters and characteristics for this 'friendship' that has been over for 20 years and has been under strain of major abuse--and like, they would have had friends for like... only a few years prior that since Alicent mostly grew up in Oldtown and came to court after her mother died, or so I assume?

While I understand some of the choices regarding B&C, I still think they should have focused on Helaena and the children leading up to it, giving us a sense of calm before B&C suddenly show up. I don't think having Alicent fuck Criston was a good idea. And it DID lose some of its tradegy by Helaena not offering her life for her children/having to actually choose.

And I generally think the show suffered from a lot of nonsensical character decisions/characteristics that made no sense for what we've previously seen. The writing wasn't there.

GRRM is right in being angry with what they've done to his characters and story. And I get his frustration with Helaena and the ending the writers are pushing her towards, because that was exactly what I got from her character; that she'd kill herself just because.

I really wanted the driven to madness plot.

But I also get it was bad form for GRRM to post that and why it was taken down--though I think it's a power move on his part. And I do hope it will get HBO to think about their next move in regards to this story and the writing.

[rhaenin-writing-time]

As the second season for HotD comes out, do you think you’ll want to change anything in your story to include parts of it, or are you planning to act only on the first season and F&B? And even if you don’t include any actual story parts from season two, do you intend to include themes or commentary on it in your plot?

I'm going to answer this in more detail on the next chapter. Which should be... soon I hope. But I'm definitely cutting it off at season 1 and leaning more into the book. Season 1 was heavily flawed, but season 2 is a yike and I don't want to have to account for all the CANON they're breaking and the other weird decisions most of which were made in the quest to try to frame it as a 50/50 conflict rather than letting the themes of the book shine through. Baela and Rhaena, for example, had such clear characteristization in the book that they've thrown away in part to make the Blacks look worse by making Daemon look worse by keeping him separate from his daughters (which contradicts not just the book but also his characterization in the show as someone obsessed with family. Not to mention that ot does t make sense logically how they act like driftmark and dragonstone are worlds away, or that Rhaenyra, who even made sure her grieving son saw to Baela and Rhaena's emotional needs, would EVER let Daemon get away with it even if he tried. Which is why they don't try to justify it they just... keep them a part. And because baela's characteristization is so tied to Daemon, especially later on, she's left kind of... "generic targ girl in background" and the writers try to attribute her "rogue" qualities to Laena - which also messes with Laenas characterization and reraises the question of why the hell she didn't just take her kids and her dragons and go home if she wanted to. And of course, because the book first sets up Baela's character and then contrasts the twins to further characterize them through their differences, it means that Rhaena's chacterization gets erased. And not just erased, but replaced with nonsense that was added to lend sympathy to Aemond. Because the difference between the twins in the books had nothing to do with a made-up "targ kids and teens without dragons are deprived" idea and everything to do with how they fit differently into gender roles. But of course, hotd is determined to erase the underlying themes regarding misogyny and reactionary politics whenever it can. So I stead, we get... a Rhaena who wants to be a... cardboard cutout targ girl and the only thing that makes her different is that she doesn't have a dragon even though that conflict doesn't make sense which is why not once is it addressed WHay she does t have a dragon if she wants one so bad, because in the book it was just that 1. She was young and had many years left before it would be considered noteworthy 2. It wasn't a big deal 3. The fact she had the eggs before the war started suggested that as she approached the age where a dragonless targ would start to think about claiming one, she instead made a personal decision that she'd rather raise one from a hatching. Because we're talking about a (book)Margaery-esque girl who wore her baby pink dragon like an accessory. Why would she feel "pathetic" for being entrusted with her siblings and doing diplomacy with the Vale? And if she did, why does she not simply ask to claim a dragon, or try to claim a dragon, a d why are those questions not even addressed? Because they can't answer them. So if they can't, I'm not going to bend this fic around trying, especially since so much is scoped and/or written out already.

And that's just ONE of the issues. And believe it or not, the Alicent/Cole issue is actually related to the Daemon & his daughters issue. So... the books, and we're going to pretend that hotd is a "competing, close account" that has a lot of correct information in the first volume, info that contradicts F&B like ages and dates, but grows more dubious as it continues.

Lol k maybe not "I'll answer this in more detail" and instead "I'll answer this more clearly."

[cbrownjc]

Can I just add that the major thing that annoyed me in Season 1 of HOTD was how they basically gave Alicent Laena Velaryon's role in Rhaenyra's life? Especially the overtones of possibly being more than friends.

Because after reading Fire and Blood, I always maintained that, had they all still been in Valyria, Daemon would have married both Rhaenyra and Laena. Because not only did he clearly love them both, but they both loved him and both women loved each other in the same way too. At least, that was always the implication I got from how GRRM wrote about their dynamics.

And now, because of how the show adapted it, you've got people shipping Rhaenyra with Alicent, and poor Laena was barely around with only one sad little hint (in EP05) about her and Rhaenyra's book-canon closeness that was in that exact same frame of implication.

And look, the reduction of Laena's part in the story especially hurt me given that Laena was now black in the show. It just seemed, to me, like another instance when a white character (or in this case one that was always perceived to be white) was made black in the adaptation of the book, but was -- once again -- given significantly less to do than their book counterpart.

Anyone still wonder why I love IWTV so much? A show that very much didn't do that with its black characters?

And so there will always be a part of me that will always dislike show!Alicent for all of that, for the way they gave Laena's role to her. That, basically a white character was given the role that, if they followed the books, would have been part of the character and story of a now black character.

Because I'd be lying if I didn't say it all left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyway, IMO they should have just let Alicent keep her book-canon age and aged Laena up to match the age-up with Rhaenyra. Let Rhaenyra and Laena keep their book-relationship, and just make Alicent have a big-sister relationship with Rhaenyra. Even having her be another mother figure for a time after Rhaenyra loses Aemma. Then you can still have a hammer-fall when Viserys chooses Alicent to marry.

Anyway, I don't talk much HOTD here on Tumblr, mostly because I'm not as passionate about that show as I am about IWTV, or was about GOT (before its final season aired). But I did just want to say this regarding Alicent's character and why this trying to make her more "likable" change to her character has actually hurt the show in some ways, at least for me.

The book version of Alicent Hightower had an actual spine. She was ruthless, cunning, she knew what she was doing, she was not sorry and she was ready to face the consequences.

Media today is so obsessed with promoting strong female characters on screen. So why wasn’t Alicent portrayed exactly as GRRM wanted her to be? What’s the point of going for a meek and whinny version who does nothing but complain about the consequences of her own actions?

So far, what the TV version of Alicent Hightower has shown is that she seems to have Paranoid Personality Disorder, Illusory Superiority and she also suffers from memory loss (since in episode 6, she was practically signing Zira’s lullaby to Kovu/Aegon like “One day when you’re big and strong, you will be a king.”, and then in episode 9, she has no recollection of plotting to put her son on the throne).

If this was the showrunners’ attempt at trying to make her “likable”, “approachable” or “relatable”, they seriously need to rethink their strategy.

[fentyblunts]

my thing with hotd is you can clearly tell that they didn’t expect people to actually like the worldbuilding and political scheming so they tried to rush through to get to the dance immediately and they’ve kinda (seemingly) screwed over the rest of this season.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Have you been keeping up with the HoTD? They’ve made different character choices from F&B - my absolute least favourite being the change to Aemond’s character as a quasi-Daeron (who isn’t in this season and may or many not exist in show cannon, and probably my favourite character in the book) who kills Luke through a series of unfortunate events (in fact the whole war seems to be a series of mistakes), to the point where people are having full blown discussions on here if Aemond should be the rightful heir due to how dutiful (gag) and dedicated he is. I feel that a lot of adaptations of asoaif completely fail to understand and include some of George’s larger themes - like nobility and feudal society having no regard for civilians, which later returns to haunt them. If they’re attempting making Aemond into a rival/foil for Aegon as an option for the greens, that shows me that writers have again failed to understand what GRRM is trying to put across. The character who rides a nuclear weapon that he uses indiscriminately, exhibits psychopathic traits and commits as close to what can be considered genocide in Westeros is getting a character makeover. The craziest part is HBO also wants to adapt Dunk & Egg, a series whose entire arc focuses on a Targaryen finally gaining a shred of empathy and emotional intelligence to understand that actually, you should care about the civilians you rule.

I’ve been keeping up with HOTD enough to make some low effort memes about it. I’m going to be saying “It’s Game of Thrones—civilians don’t count!” derisively every time they want us to care about these upcoming battles. Imagine adapting a series with one of the big messages that the smallfolk suffer the most in these wars—even when the cause seems right, like Robb Stark whose men terrorized the Westerlands/Crownlands—and concluding they don’t count. Can’t relate.

I was never a fan of Æmond in the novella except for how over-the-top terrible he is, kind of like Euron but fortunately without the rape aspect (his attachment to Alys I think is genuinely interesting, especially contrasted with his womanizing foil Dæmon). Daeron D is one of my favorite characters as well—as the generally good kid of the Greens who is in service to a bad cause, doesn’t want the throne, felt sickened by Tumbleton but still killed hundreds as he burned Bitterbridge out of blood revenge for his nephew, didn’t get to die heroically unlike his counterpart Addam Velaryon—so to have the character in the books who is a cartoon villain take some of these traits is cringeworthy for me. According to the same “civilians don’t count” show writer, we’re also supposed to be sorry for Aegon because he might not know what consent is (when the actor, who has half a brain, said maybe don’t make the character a child rapist if you want the audience to sympathize with him) Don’t worry; Daeron D exists in the show, as he’s been added to the Targ tree and will be in next season (Seven’s sake I have to come back here for a next season…and it’s going to be 2024), though what they’re going to do with him is anyone’s guess (I mean they got rid of Rhaenyra’s romantic friendship with Laena in the show for Alicent, and killed Laena off graphically the first chance they got). I agree with everything you said except about Egg. His treatment of the Blackfyres/their supporters in refusal to show mercy, his enabling Aerys’ corrupt regime, and especially his actions at Summerhall show he was just as dragon-crazy and entitled as the rest of them.

thanks for the ask.

[kiefbowl]

regarding alicent being hated by neckbeards (and not to sound like some Women Are Worse Actually apologist or something cause asoiaf fanboys are the worst lmao) things are not much better with the women in the fandom. i mostly move in female dominated spaces when it comes to asoiaf and it's been shocking seeing the way they've been talking about her. literally calling her every misogynistic slur under the sun 276485 times a day. and when the actress who played young alicent alluded to romantic undertones in rhaenyra and alicents relationship they went fucking feral and jumped on her saying that if actors wanted to fuck they should do it in their own time and leave the characters out of it.

it took me so much by surprise the intensity of the hatred both for the character and ship bc i can name countless villainous characters that have big fanbases?? not to mention problematic het ships ("problematic" ranging from starting as enemies to straight up shipping male abusers or groomers or pedos with female characters). they're basically treating alicent as the devil incarnate while adoring the man who took his 15 year old niece to a brothel...it's disgusting. i

was in the fandom for a while before i read fire and blood so i got into the book with preconceived notions expecting to love daemon/rhaenyra (cause he's a fan-favourite and fans are really presenting their relationship as some great love story) and hating alicent more than any asoiaf villain by the way they were talking about her. instead i was disgusted by how a male character like daemon could have stans and couldn't get what made alicent different from basically any asoiaf and got character? cause almost everyone in that universe look to save their own skin, gain power for themselves etc etc so i didn't view her as an anomaly just your run-of-the-mill antagonist??

generally liked the changes they made in her character in the show cause she was just too evil stepmothery for my taste in the book and it fell flat but the fandom was foaming at the mouth at the thought that they made her remotely sympathetic. and every time the actors/showrunners etc mentioned that alicent is a product of the patriarchy they'd be screaming about how she's the patriarchy herself and shit like that as if women who cape for the patriarchy aren't oppressed by it? it generally feels like i've time travelled s couple of decades back with the misogynistic takes ive had to read that are widely accepted in fandom . it's disturbing cause they basically switch "feminism" on and off based on whether they like s character or not and if they don't it's free estate apparently? they hate her so much that they can't even empathise with her being married off to an old man as a teenager and enduring marital rape cause apparently that would be excusing her later actions. but they'll happily joke around about daemon murdering his wife...

sorry for ranting lmao i just really wanted to discuss the show with another radfem haha

Omg girl, the takes brewing in the hotd tag on tumblr are ATROCIOUS, I'm right there with you. A week back I got an anon about Alicent where I said she hadn't become the villain yet, but had clearly turned antagonistic toward Rhaenyra. This past episode, she has clearly stepped up her villainy, and like - what about it? Her choices and feelings are completely understandable.

It truly makes me wonder what people watch stuff and read stuff for. Like what do you get out of it? If you don't find characters compelling, what's the point? If evil characters make you hate them like it's personal, perhaps you need a bit of a reality check? These people aren't real lol

I'm also absolutely bemused how angry people are getting that the showrunners are interpreting this book and creating scenes that aren't quite what the book described, because it's the point? The book is a ""history book"" intentionally playing on unreliable sources. Every scene is going to be more fleshed out and a little different, and they're going to create visual parallels within the show. These complainers would make terrible television shows

Alicent is a tragic character, and you don't have to root for her, but I don't understand not feeling sympathy for her.

[horizon-verizon]

If Daemyra and Alys/Aemond are foils, how will they be presented to us on screen?

I'm bad at predictions, anon, so try not to be too disappointed with me. I also despise the notion of getting into Ryan Condal's -- and any major writer there -- mind.

To many in the audience, Daemyra is OTP and one of the biggest draws to the show (aside from actually hating Rhaenyra and loving Alicent for many Rhaenicent-shippers).

Since Aemond has been modified into:

a way calmer, less volatile version from the book, a person who seems victimized instead of the woman-hating victimizer

a guy who accidentally, rather than intentionally as in canon, kills his nephew while his younger nephew tries to run away from him -- Lucerys thinking Aemond will kill him because of years of hate AND Aemond literally just having told him to put out his own eye then chasing him for more than 10 minutes (let's imagine this happening, it would be a long-enough chase)...

Then I expect that the writers would present Aemond/Criston's capture of Harrenhal and taking Alys as his war prize as him "saving" her from destitution and/or him having inner conflict over how Lucerys' death went down. Others have already argued or suggested that HotD Aemond might regard Alys as something like his repentance for his actions against Lucerys (her being a Strong bastard). That the writers will pair these two either as Aemond trying to use her as his private penance or/and Alys victimizing him because she is the older one...ignoring the fact that Aemond killed all the Strong male issue and takes her as a war prize/sex slave.

You know what, I can believe that they will have Aemond lose control of his own emotions again, raze Harrenhal again (like Aegon I), see how he killed the Strongs "accidentally", and then take Alys as his publicized war prize so that he can make up for the fact that he accidentally killed her means to live (the Storng house). And then, the "whore" and "groomer"/"pedophile" Alys will encourage or begin to change their relationship into a real sexual one so she can use his authority for her own use and protection and seek revenge against those she lived with (the survivors of the House and their followers or servants) with such power. Because they probably will also present Alys living under the Strongs as being destitute as mistreated, as I already suggested.

Thus twisting Alys into some sort of gold digging tramp and repeating this current misogynist nonsense of women "trying to take men's money and only wanting them for their money" that you see bouncing around in Instagram, TikTok, etc., and real life people's own mouths. Instead of, say....a war prize trying to just survive?

I already wrote how Daemon and Aemond are foils HERE and what a Byronic hero is (what Daemon is modelled from) HERE. The show would have us think Aemond is the Byronic hero, or what it thinks a Byronic hero is.

HERE is a post I made that has pics of an NY Times interview with Condal. Here is what he says about Daemon:

We established right out of the gate, in the pilot, that Daemon is a fascinating guy, but he’s not Ned Stark. So I didn’t see it coming.

To me, Daemon is the antihero of this story. He’s a character with a real darkness to him, who’s dangerous and charming in equal parts. I knew people would be fascinated by him and latch onto him, but I figured they’d do it in the way they did with Jaime Lannister or Bronn or the Red Viper. I did not think they would oddly apply this sort of super-fandom to him and try to justify every single thing he’s done as being intrinsically heroic. It simply isn’t. It’s not the case. Nor will it be in the future.

[...]

I see Daemon as having heroic aspects to him, and I understand why people would. I mean, he’s incredibly charismatic, he’s handsome, he looks great in that wig, he rides a dragon, he has a cool sword. I totally get it. But if you’re looking for Han Solo, who’s always going to do the right thing in the end, you’re in the wrong franchise, folks.

Basically, Condal thinks/thought people justifies everything Daemon does as something that is inherently, morally good or innocuous. He believes people love Daemon because he is handsome, charming, a dragonriders, confident, etc. Basically he is a bad boy, Condal says, and people love a bad boy, but Condal's says people mistake him as a good person when he isn't.

But Condal also said some contradictory things about Daemon, seeming to flip-flop:

My post HERE of him talking about the choking scene.

LINK to post by @eschercaine

Which goes to show how much Condal knows about how fans of this series think and feel. Fans love Daemon yes for his self confidence, but many do not just love him for that. Many love that he is willing to do whatever it takes, especially violence, to protect both his family's lives and their dignities. He has been doing things like this even before Viserys became king. It is Viserys who troubles their relationship by causing Mysaria's miscarriage in canon.

And there is absolutely no indication that either Rhaenyra or her kids feared him while she was married to him in their years on Dragonstone together. But in HotD, his relationship with Rhaenyra apparently has physical abuse?! Daemon fucks Rhaenyra trying to get close to his brother?!

Keeping that in mind, as it is beyond obvious that Aemond and Daemon are thematic rivals (I already explain how in the linked post above), Condal makes Aemond the "better" person. Therefore, Aemond must and will come out looking like a victim and a "better person" next season. And apparently because these relationships hinge on the man's psychological state more than anything, their relationships will reflect the man's inner woes.

Daemyra is a relationship of wounded envy and little to no communication, a high chemistry non love posing as real love in HotD. AlysxAemond will be one of repressed angst, manipulation, and guilt, another non love but this time the war prize element will hammer in how boys can't be abusers of adults but Aemond is "just trying his best". Daemyra will spiral, falter, and disintegrate with Daemon's increasing violence corresponding to his growing frustrations with Rhaenyra's increasing paranoia. Feelings of betrayal will be presented from both characters -- Daemon wondering where her trust has gone after years of him proving it to her, and Rhaenyra just from feeling him grow more and more distant (hinted at with Daemon not being there when she lost Visenya).