#and bigots who are not. and also people who claim to be vegan but dont go by the definition

[sereniv]

bootleg scientist is right 🙄

[sereniv]

🤔🤔🤔 not in Yaqui culture

Anon its not black and white. Theres many cultures in the past and still now that value the life of an animal, to see them as equal, but still have the need to use them.

And with the current societies (country or state based) theres influence from colonialism and capitalism that changes the way we think and percieve, like bigotry.

not to mention we dont have to see animals as equal. you can see animals as less then. but that doesnt take away from the facts behind their ability to suffer and their sentience. scientific proof of that.

but its the convienience, the culture, the traditions, the familiarity, and the guilt, that makes people fight against this subject.

People tend to have cognative dissonance because we are literally saying "this thing you enjoy, that connects you, that youve known to be true, etc. its actually destructive". and thats really hard to deal with. because even though veganism calls for doing what you can, a lot of people know they can do more but simply dont want to, and they feel guilty. I know i did.

And because a lot of people dont see value in animal lives because of society, not inherent, its hard for them to find a reason to stop and stay vegan.

and the apathy around the earth burning and seeing no instant proof of their choices working, creates someone who will continue using animals despite knowing the damage it causes

and there needs to be understanding of this. not as coddling, or 'these poor uneducateds', but actually human to human understanding.

because this mindset doesnt help. from an outsider view, vegans are pretensious people trying to make everyone eat rabbit food. that we hate marganilzed people, that we are all white and rich. you have to remember thats a big reason why people are so quick to be pissy.

not to mention run ins with dieters who call themselves vegan, or ppl who arent vegan, or even people who are but are also bigots. this exists and people are exposed to that and we cant minimize those past interactions.

anyway, also the human and enviromental impact animal agriculture has can be recognized without seeing animals as equal

Like in parts of india the cow is considered sacred. equal or more important than a human (im not sure). but because of capitalism and western chokehold, leather can come from india. Theres so many places that uproot their way of living or believing to accommodate capitalism.

Humans at our very core, our instinct, is not to 'other'. its compassion and curiosity. to socialize and connect

racism is taught. sexism is taught. specieism is taught. bigotry is taught

majority of people care about animals but because of the society we live in, its easier to use them. its easy to not think about it. its easy to shut it out because its so intertwined

i mean im vegan? i used to claim i loved animals and yet i made fun of vegans and put off being vegan for months because i desperately didnt want to do anything different bc i was comfortable and i was afraid id miss things and i just hated the idea because i knew deep sown id stick with it. but the more research i did and the more thinking i recognized the hypocrisy and eventually the food i considered food now didnt feel like food. especially since i personally could choose not to eat it

but some people don't love animals, even hate them. some are still vegan because love of animals means nothing in veganism. its recognizing the science behind the animals. and the impact

go ahead and give up. but dont be trying to bring others with you.

humans belong here, we are naturally compassionate, we naturally want to connect. we dont inherently 'other'.

I have a theory that a certain degree of contempt and indifference for non-human animals is sadly just a natural product of being human itself. Humans are hard-wired to value those that are them (i.e, looking and behaving and essentially being them) above the 'other.' Most societies valued human life above all others. Most, if not all human societies, considered animal slaughter moral. We can't force people to empathise with those outside their species, especially when they look and behave so differently to us.

Regardless of morality (and I believe veganism is the best moral decision, obvs), the animal liberation movement has been fighting a losing battle from the start. We can't make people live by their own values because their values and our values aren't the same as ours. they fundamentally hold little else other than apathy and outright contempt for animals. I've all but given up working for a better world that'll never exist.

I think you’re wrong here, for a few reasons. Firstly I believe that what people tend to value most is members of their own group - whichever group that may be. We have tonnes of anthropological evidence and examples of this throughout human history, but we also have plenty of examples of individuals and society transcending those groupings. Look at just about any social justice victory of the past century - all require individuals to look beyond their own group.

Even if humans were ‘hard-wired’ to value other humans over anyone else, you’d have to be a hard biological determinist to believe that humans can’t or won’t overcome this. You’d need to believe our moral and cognitive behaviour are determined by almost solely by our biology to the point where we can do nothing about it, which throws up all kinds of troubling conclusions. Not to mention the fact that it doesn’t explain those humans who do clearly value other animals.

More fundamentally, we don’t really need humans to value other animals as much as they value human animals, we just need them to value non-human animals more than they value cheeseburgers. Nothing about veganism requires us to value a pig as much as a human, we just need to be willing to factor that pig into our ethical decision-making as beings whose interests morally matter. That doesn’t require empathy.

The natural conclusion of that thinking is veganism, regardless of how we view the value of a pigs life in relation to a human life, since the human life is not at stake. We aren’t weighing an animals life vs a humans life, we’re weighing an animals life against a humans desire to consume their flesh and secretions for the sake of habit, convenience, taste etc. Honestly I think the idea that ‘this is just human nature’ is far too easy an answer for a very complex problem.

[sereniv]

Hey i mean maybe hes saying something that DOES check out

shitty people can say things that resonate with us on a base level

But you have to take in account the bigotry and how that might change the meaning of what hes saying, just like any bigot

I mean theres some Gary Yfourskey things that i think ive agreed with him saying, but otherwise i dont support him. I wouldnt quote him, but what hes said can still be material for you

And when i made this post it was in reference to something i saw and when i say followers i mean people who refuse to take any criticism towards him and blindly follow

And you dont have to totally be wary of white vegans or even cis white male vegans, but be aware of someone's privileges and how that can affect the meaning behind what they say- plus, what they say consistently

You have to consistantly be anti racism, anti transphobia, anti bigotry in general. And i know quite a few white vegans who are consistent, and listen, and im technically one lol

As long as you remember the definition of veganism it can help you weed out who actually is.

Because again, someone can be a bigot and vegan. But this guy is just a bigot, because his bigotry ties in with his "veganism", where he convienently ignores the part of the definition that says "as far as is possible and practical"

If someone claims to be vegan but cant look outside their own situation and listen to marginalized people, and have empathy and sympathy of others situations

and ultimately look down on people who literally cant do anything like northern natives who live where you either pay 30 dollars for an apple or you hunt your own food- then how does that make them still vegan?

if its not possible (that of which can only be defined by you) or practical (also can only be defined by you), then what more can someone ask of you?

so yeah fuck this guy, but dont feel bad for agreeing with some stuff he says. Its like that meme "the person you hate the most made a really good point" or smthing

I am a James Aspey hater. Like fr get off my blog if you're a vegan and support this piece of shit. Hes disgusting and racist and antisemitic, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's every bigot under the sun. Disgusting.

EDIT: yknow what? I'd say he's not even vegan. BECAUSE he is so bigoted he could not possibly be going by the definition of "as possible and practical (and necessary)". If he attacks people without knowing their situation or their necessities either it be culture or religion or anything ive talked about on this blog, then how can he be vegan? Everyone is different and this asshole just wants everyone to fucking suffer

James Aspey isn't vegan, he's just a bigot. And so are his followers