#and at least two out of seven arguments there was exactly what yagami is trying to say bringing up sawa. EXACTLY THE SAME THOUGHT

[passthroughtime]

sorry @kamuro-junrenka i just giggled from the realisation

then his next words

are SO hypocritical it's unreal

sorry i just love the idea of yagami trying to talk sense to kuwana when it is KUWANA who sees things more clearly. (no kuwana apologism here, he was stupid with revenge killing and he knows that this is who he had to become though he doesn't like it. but HOW and WHO are you teaching this lesson to if your victims just disappear without any reason/explanation/message to the world... lmao.) gonna munch on this thought a little more, i think that is a good point of view and i can elaborate a little later (i have one post that i've been cooking in march, but at that time i decided to finish the game first and write it... and after finishing LJ i've been grieving my loss of judgment... haha see what i did there.)

actually the boat scene is insane in the way that we see live how yagami's convictions tear at the seams, and i WILL be insane about it, yet again, later. ok, whatever, not the point though right now. for me, LJ is about telling yagami (and, consequently, us) that good/bad is not the only possible options and they are even not mutually exclusive.

yagami needed that lesson (hehe) after JE because that was as clear cut case as it might've been. there were bad people and there were good, he's mistaken okubo putting him under the "bad" category but he did nothing wrong and is good in the end, but there is nothing deeper than that. (and that is why i believe that LJ is more thematically rich... while not being that much of a murder mystery that is JE. i love them both for what they have and what they lack though, it's interesting to compare them with each other.)

tbh i think that yagami's past and upbringing is a little downplayed, meaning the only thing that is questionable is the mention that yagami does help the matsugane family with uhhh the crime chores let's say (i don't remember if as a lawyer or as a detective, but i do remember that this was the case). but it mentioned only in passing, and helping to defend hamura in court is not that big of a deal if we see that yagami isn't happy with the outcome though the ruling was justified, yeah?

and though his ties to yakuza are left rather unexplored (considering half of his friends are criminals of some kind LMAO yeah sugiura this includes you too) and doubtly this will be the theme that will ever be brought up again, it is important to remember that yagami as a person is a product of two different worlds. the "bad" and the "good".

the beef i have with the "good yagami" take is not whether he is a good person, but more like, with the notion of him not seeing the nuances of the situation like ever? which makes him so good and right about everything, that he does everything according to law and etc... while i picture him as "let's do it baby i know the law" kind of person.

there IS a moment where he's a little bit stubborn about his convictions, but that's because *gestures* kuwana (AND I WILL WRITE ABOUT IT MORE... SOMEDAY... SURELY...), but not to the extent some people believe him to be (i remember a meme where "kuwana explains his pov (an explanation so long it's unreadable)" vs "yagami explains his pov (which only says "murder bad"). yeah it pissed me off pretty bad.)

so... yeah. i firmly believe that LJ is not about a good/bad dichotomy, though this type of story is expected with the starting factors we get. in the end, even the protagonist left kind of saddled with unnecessary feelings troubled about his convictions that in theory are simple, yet in practice contradict each other.