#and alicent appealing to rhaenyra worked for me idk what to say

[llaw-eurog]

The finale worked for me 🤷🏻‍♀️

[lemonhemlock]

Ugh, you’re so brave for saying that you don’t agree with the Madonna/Whore complex. I agree, it feels dismissive to me.

The way I rationalize Criston’s berserker moments are: 1) lazy writing ofc 2) almost like a trauma response? When he lashes out he seems to do so in response to an affront on his character. Joffrey’s whole deal comes off as blackmail when you look at it from his perspective, and Beesbury, I’m gonna need to expand on his relationship with Alicent for a bit: 

Criston has spent nearly 20 years watching as she tries to adhere to her values and duty while Viserys (who she ends up taking care of) and co. abuse and humiliate her. 

Like Alicent (and Aemond and Otto), I’m sure he’s tired of watching the Targs they have to serve get away with things that would get them killed. And still they’re held to a higher standard than the Targaryens who rule and use them. So when Beesbury accuses her of regicide, he sees it as his duty to protect her and the sacrifices she’s had to make. 

 I feel like they validate each other and the people they want to be. It must be exhausting being surrounded by people who do what they want for pleasure over duty. Their bond makes them feel less lonely and maybe even less stupid/naive: “I have to believe, that in the end, honor and decency will prevail. We need to hew to that and to each other.” (That’s why their scene in the Godswood took place during a wedding, they’re practically married imo 🙊 it’s a play on the nuclear family.)

Sorry for the essay lol, my reblog function is nonexistent on my phone idk why and I clearly had a lot to say. You’re the best for entertaining this tangent 💚.

Ugh, you’re so brave for saying that you don’t agree with the Madonna/Whore complex. I agree, it feels dismissive to me.

Thank you! Like, I have no illusions that the showrunners might feel the madonna-whore/incel thing is appealing to the audience, so they're milking it, but even so, it doesn't vibe with what ended up on the damn screen. I never understood the incel allegations for Ser Criston either. Incel describes a person who can't access sex/romance, no matter how hard they try. Whereas Criston could absolutely get it??? Even Rhaenyra is willing to keep fucking him? 😑

These modern labels get so stupid sometimes, for real. Imagine calling a medieval queen a tradwife. JFC. As opposed to what? A fourth-wave intersectional feminist? An independent self-supporting woman working her way up the corporate ladder by the skin of her teeth? 🙄

The way I rationalize Criston’s berserker moments are: 1) lazy writing ofc

Well, kind of, yeah. In the text, Criston kills Joffrey during a tourney, so there's more ambiguity on whether it was accidental or not. And makes much more sense (it happens during a socially-acceptable framework for ending someone's life), because now, for the show, they have to invent a far-fetched reason as to why this person is allowed to indiscriminately kill people at a wedding without facing any consequences. Not exactly something you could do 100% organically and seamlessly - you have to pull some ridiculous explanation out of your arse.

2) almost like a trauma response? When he lashes out he seems to do so in response to an affront on his character. Joffrey’s whole deal comes off as blackmail when you look at it from his perspective

In the show, this is the most likely explanation for his actions, yeah. He's been on a rollercoaster of emotions, from renouncing his vows, convincing himself he is in love or that Rhaenyra loves him, contemplating a radical life change (i.e. fleeing to Essos), rapid disillusionment, fearing for his life to being forgiven by the Queen and thinking he has a second chance to being threatened/blackmailed while in a vulnerable state. In a social situation where he has to watch the woman he cared for willingly marry another, after carelessly disregarding him.

and Beesbury, I’m gonna need to expand on his relationship with Alicent for a bit:  Criston has spent nearly 20 years watching as she tries to adhere to her values and duty while Viserys (who she ends up taking care of) and co. abuse and humiliate her.  Like Alicent (and Aemond and Otto), I’m sure he’s tired of watching the Targs they have to serve get away with things that would get them killed. And still they’re held to a higher standard than the Targaryens who rule and use them. So when Beesbury accuses her of regicide, he sees it as his duty to protect her and the sacrifices she’s had to make. 

Beesbury's death is presently differently in the text, too. Grand Maester Orwyle, who was present, claims he was arrested and died of a chill in the black cells. Although this can still be interpreted as lack of care, it's more reasonable than outright murder. Septon Eustace, who was NOT present, claims Ser Criston slit Beesbury's throat, so you know. 🤷‍♀️ At least for this action, they had something to go on. I think that in the show he is trying to make him sit back down and ~accidentally~ uses too much force on him.

What I find interesting is that Orwyle is supposed to give an account that is more biased towards Rhaenyra and he claims that Beesbury was arrested, whereas Eustace is supposed to be more biased in favour of Aegon and he claims Beesbury was killed on the spot.

Though I do have to mention the ridiculousness of HOSUE BEESBURY OF HONEYHOLT, A REACH HOUSE, SIDING WITH RHAENYRA. 😐

 I feel like they validate each other and the people they want to be. It must be exhausting being surrounded by people who do what they want for pleasure over duty. Their bond makes them feel less lonely and maybe even less stupid/naive: “I have to believe, that in the end, honor and decency will prevail. We need to hew to that and to each other.” (That’s why their scene in the Godswood took place during a wedding, they’re practically married imo 🙊 it’s a play on the nuclear family.)

Yes! It is telling that Alicent's interruption of Criston's planned suicide takes place under a weirwood tree (considered sacred) and the frames are interposed with imagery from Rhaenyra's wedding! She's also filmed a little in the distance and has to walk towards him off-screen - kind of like walking towards the altar (i.e. weirwood) to her groom, whose new life begins with her by his side. They're cute. 💚

Sorry for the essay lol, my reblog function is nonexistent on my phone idk why and I clearly had a lot to say. You’re the best for entertaining this tangent 💚.

No worries! You're very welcome, lol. I'm glad to see a fellow fanon revisionist. 😅

[atopvisenyashill]

[title redacted for legal reasons]

i actually am most interested in maegor/rhaena but i’ve never found a fic i liked for them (except this noncon one here, it’s mostly porn with some slight character introspection with maegor) and also i’m obsessed with rhaenyra/viserys but ditto there, there’s not even good porn of those two. there’s also not any cat/robb which imo is a travesty considering i am convinced that michelle fairly and richard madden fucked nasty on set. i find ramsay/theon interesting aesthetically but i need some sort of emotional buy in from both parties and i just don’t read ramsay as being obsessively in love with theon so it’s not super interesting to me to read about. which leaves the one that people actually write fic about and coincidentally is the one i’m most interested in.

BUT. the problem i have here is that most aligon fic tends to go the route of aegon ordering alicent into ~something fucked up after he’s crowned, which isn’t to say this can’t be done in a way i really enjoy, like this one here that i think is just amazing, seriously it’s actually the one i think about the most, aegon’s dialogue just rings in my head. but most of these involve alicent actively fighting aegon (which is like, probably the point tbf) but on an emotional level i’m more interested in aegon attempting to seduce her than just forcing himself on her.

that’s part of why i really like this series, because it’s very much a back and forth dynamic where they are re-enacting their traumas on each other but like, willingly repeating the cycles over again against each other until they’re so disgusted they can’t go on (don’t read it unless you want your day ruined tho lmao).

there’s this one that basically does exactly what i’m bitching about tho - aegon forcing himself on alicent right as he’s being made king - but this one has it focus more on the moment she doesn’t tell him she loves him and then doesn’t just turn immediately into noncon porn, it really digs into the two of them and the structural issues surrounding consent, which is why i like it. i realize it’s maybe a big ask for well written incestuous sexy character pieces, but that’s why i’m pointing out the ones i like lmaooo because this one does a thing that’s also very common - aegon getting fixated on alicent’s seven pointed star necklace - and it’s also really sex heavy while still saying something about the characters (besides “i think tom and olivia are hot” i mean). i think the more forceful behavior from aegon works here because he is trying to seduce her, and also trying to punish her for hurting him. i’m also a sucker for fics that try to work within canon, taking something this fucked up and complex and pretending it’s happening just offscreen. idk, i think that’s fun!

there’s also this one, mostly it’s sex but it’s fucked up interesting sex and also from aegon’s pov which is rare tbh most of them focus on alicent, but i liked seeing the play of anger, sexual violence, and intimacy in his head here.

most of the rest of it that i’ve found is much more on the noncon side and like,,,,,, that’s just not the appeal to me for this one, it’s about them deciding to drown together, it is important and integral to the dynamic that alicent is at least a little into it and being forced to confront both her own revulsion towards targaryen incest practices as well as her own complicity in that cycle continuing to harm her own children, and aegon can’t just be the aggressor to alicent’s madonna here, he needs to be purposefully trying to pull her in because he’s conflated sex and violence and family and romance, and wants her to want him back. alicent has gotta be eroticizing her own disgust and reenacting her time as a teenage mother otherwise what are we even doing here!!!!

cersei/taena doesn’t count as dead dove that’s just regular fucked up lesbian shenanigans it’s fine. i see the appeal of otto/alicent but rhys doesn’t do anything for me i think he has negative charisma i’m sorry. i don’t think i’m interested in any others tbh, the main draws are maegor/rhaena and alicent/aegon.