#and I've literally seen them cancel people for not liking and disagreeing with the stuff they come up

[redvelvetwishtree]

Sherlock Holmes stories becoming public domain is going to be so annoying 🥱 Can already see weird adaptations being made that are pretty much the same as Tumblr/Twitter fandom content and fanfictions.

Edit: idk why I went on a long rant in the tags. I've disliked this specific fandom for a long time so I guess that annoyance finally came out but the public domain thing probably won't make much of a difference I assume coz it's only 9 or 10 stories...idk

[naranjapetrificada]

I'm also a queer black adult. There's a difference between spending money for sources of comfort vs needlessly spending stuff to flex status in very childish ways. We definitely see that as we boycott all these companies. Would the latest iPhone be nice? I guess, but it ain't that impressive to support Congo's genocide. Is that Stanley cup cool? Honestly not really, and it definitely ain't worth supporting another genocide for. Even ofmd, it really wasn't that important for queer media or even black queer media, which a lot of Black shows were also canceled at the same time. No one talks about how important black rep is here though. Despite this, however, you are not seeing black people gather funds for a billboard for a show unless we talking about blm. Because that's more important than getting a show back on the air as a flex. So we as adults can recognize the bizarre message we see when people are out here begging for help, and dismissed as scammers. But the moment a donation post for a billboard gets put up to get a show back to production, it meets its up almost instantaneously. As an adult I literally study these kinds of phenomenons in our capitalist society. I'm not sending this message to come at you because you are not the only one who does this, and I certainly am forced to partake in capitalism. But I do want to share that these are the "adult" conversations people are going to have and question. For as many "we can support both ofmd and Palenstine" I read here, I see the same bloggers attacking Palestinians and Black people for rightfully being upset that they certainly do not "do both" with the same amount of passion

Thing is? I don't disagree with almost anything you said, and the frustration is real. The disparities are real. I've been on the other side of that and needed support and seen whose fundraisers met their goals quicker than mine did. All of that is real and under ideal circumstances, yeah, the billboard people could have handled all this better.

I think the differences in where I come at all this from is that:

I watched the live feed of the billboard for a minute, and people put all kinds of less-than-important shit on it. So when I see people talking about how wrong the billboard is I just remember the like, graduation-announcement-level other stuff that was on it for the same price. I'm not saying the idea still didn't rub me wrong but I am saying that put it into perspective for me at least.

This show has changed lives, which may sound silly, but that's art sometimes. There are people whose lives are better and bigger and more authentic than ever before because of this weird mix of kindness and space to be queer that isn't like anything I've ever seen before. I understand that not everyone had such an impactful experience with it but I've found that incredibly moving and valuable and worth the fight for a 3rd season.

More than anything else, I value the efforts to get the show renewed because it feels like a watershed moment in the TV and streaming industries, and things will only get worse from here. I'm aware of all the Black shows that got canceled before OFMD did but a lot of the time people only care when something comes for their shows, and now we've got a a bunch of agitated white gays (who to be clear to everyone except the asker, are NOT the show's sole audience so please stop talking about it that way) who we can and should be pushing to include Rap Sh!t and Love Life etc. when talking about all this. Because it does represent a trend that's coming for everybody, it just started with going after POC and queers first. FWIW I actually did make a post the other day aimed at OFMD people to try to get them talking about the Black shows that were canceled first. (I deleted the original post because my notifications were killing me but reblogs of it should still be floating around out there)

I'm not out here trying to say that people's perfectly understandable frustrations are invalid, it just has felt inconsistent the way a lot of (almost entirely white) self-styled leftists have been coming after OFMD as if it's uniquely horrible.

When BIPOC object to the disparities Asker pointed out, I lift that up and value it. There are things I might say in other forms of this conversation that I would have with other BIPOC away from prying eyes that might surprise you. But right now there's too much noise in this conversation from people who don't actually give a fuck about any of their talking points, they just see an opportunity to dunk on a cringe fandom or they're operating with incomplete/incorrect information about things or in the least surprising/most transparent move of all, they're projecting a bunch of inaccurate shit onto Taika and using it to criticize him in as pattern that's familiar and obvious to every POC watching it happen. That's not what I think you're doing or anything Asker, but it's important context for the conversation we could/should be having and something that keeps getting left out of the conversation.

[hyperfixation-hideout]

this is embarassing but i want u to know so sorry im anon im just a coward. Im one of the people who said insults about critics and now i think about it ur right, i wasnt address the real problems just hating the group for existing. i went looking after ur post and i see the harasment on both sides now and i thought how dumb itd be to say the fndm is evil bc of some toxic fans and thats what i was doing with rwde. Ill argue the points now on, instead of accuse people of what i assume about them

You're not a coward; this ask proves it. Thank you for telling me, I'm so glad my words reached you. It's big of you to admit, bigger to recognize it as something worth rethinking, and even bigger to seek knowledge and open yourself to a potential change of view. Thank you for that.

I wanna reiterate some things in case I was unclear, because this is a nuanced topic, so please (pretty please) bear with me before passing judgment <3

First, I'm not advocating for ignoring toxicity found in rwde and r/rwbycritics. It DOES exist and it IS a problem. But people tagging me (& others who were supportive/considerate of my pov) in their hate anons to "prove" all critics are evil missed the points I made. Like I've said, I used to think ill of rwby critics as well, and all it takes to solidify a belief is examples that support it. It infuriates me that people would send asks like that, and I'm so sorry to everyone who gets hate. That's not okay.

What I am saying is the existence of hateful people who use a tag doesn't disprove the existence of non-hateful people who use said tag, nor does it make the tag's existence inherently hateful. ("RWDE" was a jokey name made for a place to critique RWBY without being called rude, so people could blacklist the tag.) I could broadcast every hateful person/take I see in the fndm or r/rwby, but it wouldn't prove everyone in the FNDM is like that. It's basic scientific theory.

It's important to be conscious of the toxic behavior in the FNDM as well, but I wasn't trying to say some wishy-washy "there's bad on both sides so it cancels out uwu" or "don't complain about one group's problems if your group has some too" or imply either group is worse than another. Not at all my intention.

Like you said, a lot of the stuff I see in antirwde or in replies to rwde posts isn't about debating opinions on the show, or discussing points they've made to express why they disagree; it's mainly:

A) Unrelated assumptions about the poster's character/beliefs/credibility (i.e. calling someone a n*zi for having an Ironwood profile picture, telling Jewish people who express discomfort with Coco's allusion that they're faking being Jewish just to bash/accuse CRWBY -- ironic to throw around the word n*zi and then tell Jewish fans they're faking discomfort with a character based on a literal n*zi -- telling queer people who wish Bumbleby had been implemented differently that they're "obviously cishet" and shouldn't complain about representation, telling Black people they're secretly white supremacists for saying the way the White Fang was portrayed was harmful, telling disabled people that pointing out ableist messages/rhetoric is ableist, etc., etc., I've seen it all.)

B) Generalizations of the tag and critique as a whole (saying all rwde posters and critics vehemently hate the show, harass CRWBY, are conservatives, homophobes, Trump supporters, fascist bootlickers, etc.) Yes, I've actually seen this. Many times. From people who directly told me they understood it's not all, immediately turning around to post the opposite in the tag.

C) People who are called out for harassment deflecting with "but look at THIS harassment done to ME, that proves I've never sent hate or death threats or doxxed anyone" instead of addressing or reconsidering the hurtful things they've markedly done or said in the past, even when provided with receipts. (I've seen this from both rwde and anti-rwde users, and no I will not name names)

D) People telling critics to shut up and stop watching, not considering that many critics do like the show and that's why they like talking about it, or why certain aspects disappointed them, or why they enjoy coming up with ideas for ways it could've gone they'd have liked to see! People say "we welcome criticism if it's respectful!" and on paper that's great! But in practice I've seen many (not all) of those same people jump to conclusions and insult/mock very respectfully-worded critique. It makes it hard to say anything without being assumed to be part of the htdm.

Even little things like "I wish Ruby's reaction to Yang falling had gotten more focus" get inflammatory comments/asks like "Why do you have to shit on Bumbleby? Actually, don't answer that. I know why. You're a sexist fucking lesbophobe and you probably stan Adam, go die abuse apologist" (that one was mine, despite saying IN THE POST that I liked Blake's reaction and ship Bumbleby)

And when it is addressing a particular qualm someone expressed, it's very, very often just people jumping to impose their headcanons to explain it away and enforcing them as canon, defending CRWBY as though it were an assault (again, not referring to the people who ARE harassing CRWBY, this is about those seeking genuine discussion), and calling OP names/telling them to kill themselves if they "can't see how obvious it is that ___."

To critics, fans, and all who overlap (and tbh just people in general):

If there's a pattern of shittiness in a group, by all means call it out as a prevalent issue! Or vent about your experiences! Try to avoid generalization words like "all" and "every" because they leave little room for change or understanding, and communicate a lack of desire to listen/cooperate, which keeps us from being able to tackle the issue. If there's a point someone makes you'd like to dispute, do so respectfully and engage in open conversation! Even if it's an opinion! It's fun to say "I actually liked ___ because ___" or "interesting, I interpreted it as ___" and spark a conversation. Try to avoid words like "obviously," the intent to prove an opinion "objectively correct," or insulting the person's intelligence (i.e. calling fans braindead/ignorant/simps, calling critics oblivious/bad-faith/bigots), because it shuts down discussion before it can begin.

I've just realized this has gotten really long and tangential, so I'll leave it at that. I don't have a perfect conclusion or an easy summary. It's a complicated topic. To anyone still here, thank you for reading this. I can only hope it doesn't come off too preachy, but I'm bad at conveying tone, so just know I mean it constructively and optimistically <3

[PS: to the person who sent me an anon saying my statement that not all critics have all the same opinions or beliefs is "just like saying 'not all men'" -- I want you to think about that for a minute. Actually, make that an hour. I want an essay on my desk tomorrow explaining why those are not at all the same thing.]

[classicslesbianopinions]

As someone who spent hours reading through your old posts because I’m writing my own greek adaptation, I’d like to say that I really appreciate your nuanced interpretations. I think online we sometimes wrongly assume that critique = condemnation and i really don’t think that’s fair. You raise great points about why miller’s books don’t work for you; but you’re also not saying 1) she shouldn’t be writing it or 2) that her writing is inherently bad. You talk about Miller’s biases and why it feels like she misses the mark. You literally criticize her adaption, which we all critique books? I don’t know, I just really appreciate this new perspective you’ve given me because it’s scary to adapt work that others have played with long before you and I feel better knowing about some of the glaring issues that crop up in adaptations. Personally, I love Miller, but reading literary criticism isn’t going to diminish my enjoyment? It’s refreshing to learn more about something I love, even if it isn’t a gold star review. Where’s the critical thought behind condemning everyone who doesn’t agree with what you like?

thank you! one of my biggest issues with the internet today or whatever is that i feel like people take criticism of their favorite stuff as like, a Super Big Deal or as criticism of them (the reader) as a person or as a total condemnation/cancellation, which is like... honestly just super unproductive. i'm really glad this blog has become a space where i feel like i can criticize stuff and most of our followers get it and join in with their own takes, and when we disagree we're able to talk about it a little further.

but yeah like i don't think it has to be a big deal if i don't like madeline miller honestly. i mean i don't even dislike her so much as i just want her to do better, because i do think her prose and her research are very well-done, i just disagree with what she does with them. i simply would like her to respect women more, and i would like people to stop acting like her books are feminist or progressive.

anyway i honestly don't see how you can look at what i've said on here and say that i'm not doing critical thinking about it but also i know each of our readers has read different stuff on the blog and forms a different picture of us based on what posts they've actually seen so like... yeah not everyone will have the full context i guess

[thedreadvampy]

this is kind of a Hot Take (and rlly long) so don't feel pressured to post this

also no one cancel thedreadvampy over posting this ask if she does these are my beliefs and not necessarily hers kthx

I'm honestly really uncertain why people are so militant about aphobia on this site. like obviously aphobes are Not Nice People and it's good to be against their shitty beliefs. But I've been on this site for ~5 years and I have never, in my memory, seen an aphobe (with the few exception of like. literal nazis but their main label isn't aphobe). I have seen a lot of people who were then harassed/cancelled being called aphobes in addition to a lot of other things like (homophobic, racist, abusive, etc) but as far as I bothered to figure out, the label of aphobe came from one specific phrase they used or one post they reblogged (though I can't be bothered to Deep Research so I genuinely don't know on this one).

(I have seen casual acephobia in my own personal life. however, that is not Tumblr.)

I have seen scores of posts along the lines of "aphobes are bad" "aphobes dni" etc etc.

Maybe it's just who I follow, but it seems like there's a lot more anti-aphobe sentiment than aphobes. Which is good! It's the goal! However, I think it's possible that that anti-aphobe sentiment has not become "look how few aphobes there are! yay!" it's "there are hidden aphobes all around us and you have to interrogate everyone to know who to ostracize"

You're a fairly popular figure in the mechs/tma fandoms and the thing about Tumblr is that it hates popular figures. And more than that, you're visible, so a) people will see if you answer a bunch of questions about ace things, and b) you exist in everyone's brains more than little blogs.

to be clear. to be absolutely crystal 100% clear: I am not saying that people got together and went "let's interrogate all the popular blogs so we can pretend theyre acephobic and have fun bullying people," I'm saying it's possible that what was once a positive emotion, "we don't tolerate intolerant people" has possibly, in some people, morphed into a fear that intolerant people are hiding all around them. And frankly, that fear can be understandable (not right, not kind, but understandable), especially if they face hate irl and their only outlet for emotion is tumblr. shit, Tumblr is one of my emotional outlets.

I don't think it's bad to engage with these people in good faith, or to answer questions, but I think it's possible that some of them are coming from the "intolerant people are hiding all around us and must be ferreted out" kind of perspective instead of a "hey I wanna check that this person isn't an intolerant asshole before following/supporting them" or "I want to engage with a person who may be ignorant" (I'm not attempting to imply that you're ignorant). Im not saying "not answer their questions" this is just, like, my opinion. I'm not making a lot of actionable statements here.

that's my whole Hot Take, hopefully I made some kind of sense, I just honestly feel kind of mad on your behalf that you have to go thru an interrogation to be Not Tumblr Cancelled. If people were generally having a nuanced discussion then that would be fine but you've already stated several times that ace/aspec people are valid and deserve love and respect etc etc. which as an aspec person makes me feel that your blog is safe for me, and I don't feel the need to play 20 Questions Are You Sure You Aren't An Aphobe

I don't know how much of this I entirely agree with and I refuse to think

(not about this. just in general. today I refuse to think)

my main response to this is:

a) I think my confusion is I have less than 1500 followers I think I always assumed the You Are Now A Public Figure People Have Opinions On mark had to be higher than that but this appears to have been a totally incorrect assumption

b) I don't feel like. a threat of Cancellation except inasmuch as I don't want Kofi to eventually get any kind of kickback if I turn out to be or people understand me to be a shitty person. I didn't ask for a platform or do anything to deserve it, if I get distressed it's largely just that I don't want to be a shitty person! and I have a whole thing about. I don't ever feel secure in my ability to say I'm NOT being shitty so like if enough people start saying AH RUTH THEDREADVAMPY IS A GARBAGE PERSON I definitely do stay wondering if they're right even if I think my position is morally defensible. like I'm very easy to get into a spiral of I think that's highly defensible but maybe I'm just in denial/trying to cover my ass/self-justifying so I can avoid accountability/etc. like this is a thing and it's why I'm very uncomfortable with absolutism, a lot of my family in my experience have a phenomenal capacity for denial and for rewriting reality into something they Fully Believe despite all the evidence, and so I'm really conscious of the possibility that I'm doing that and I wouldn't. know about it. it's a really really powerful subconscious force and that's been like. a big fear point for me my whole life. that I could be being a cunt and be obviously being a cunt and be so deep in denial that it just doesn't register at all. this is like. the thing I fear most. So I DO want people to tell me if I'm being a dick because the only way I can 100% know I'm not just in denial is if I can trust people to call me in, but I really, really, really struggle with when people say I'm being a dick and I disagree, not because they're harassing me necessarily but just because it really sends me into a spiral of doubting my own ability to be sure about like, anything. at all. it's a whole unreality thing which is, uh, it's MINE to deal with, it's not something I would want to put on other people, but it very much does affect my responses and I didn't mean to write this but hey, no therapy last week and it shows.

oh also c) on reflection I don't agree that there's very little aphobia on Tumblr (although as I've said I'm not ace or aro so my opinion should hold little weight) but I do think that there's a lack of give and take, not just in aphobia stuff but also in general, in these kinds of conversations, like sometimes yeah people are actively hateful but I don't think there's any room for misunderstanding, poor phrasing, or questioning, and I understand that that's coming from a really genuine place of pain and devaluation of aro/ace experiences but I also think people jump straight to assuming active malice very fast, and often explicitly consider "actively not stating an opinion" to be an offence on the level of "actively staying a harmful opinion," which I think is unhelpful. like. we learn by listening, there are times in my life where I would have been lying at the time to agree unconditionally with something like "I think we should believe survivors" (I was a 2000s teen who hung out with 4channers) but I also was conscious of the harm that it would do to publicly debate from the perspective that No We Shouldn't Believe Survivors, so you know I waited and I listened and I thought about it and ultimately I came to a position I could say with my chest. but like. The online social more that you Have to have an opinion and I Have to hear it to prove that you have the Right opinion is. uncomfortable to me to say the least. I don't think it gives you much room to learn and improve, especially given that everything on the internet is permanent and often treated as if it forever reflects your current beliefs. like I have changed my opinions So Much since I was 16 and if someone went back through a tag on my blog to Prove My Bad Opinions they could paint pretty much any picture they wanted with 12 years of changing opinions.

anyway yeah like. no I don't fully agree with this ask but I appreciate the alternate perspective. I also did not mean to write another wall of text I'm just very much In A Brain Hole today and sometimes words Just Happen.

[noonstate]

couldn't care less about ana mardoll a person i learned about like. hours ago. but i think there is something to be said about the way that people are so gleeful in finding out that someone they disagree with (perhaps for perfectly valid reasons) has something morally "wrong" about them. yes, in this case, if the story is as the twitter timeline suggests, it is fucked up actually to work for the war crimes company esp. as a legacy hire, and more fucked up to not see how that makes as a hypocritical contrast for online whinging and harassment campaigns. let he who is without sin etc etc etc

however. i do think there is something slightly insidious and "cancel culture"-y about the way that people love looking for a reason to discredit a person, as if their views / statements / beliefs can't be discrediting in their own right, or as if you can't simply just…. not like a person, without having to feel morally superior.

the "person x was actually bad this whole time so i'm justified in not liking them" thing has never sat well with me, as a bitter asshole who is entirely happy to dislike people without having to feel morally 'in the right' about it. and honestly, digging thru someone's digital trash until you hit paydirt is a tactic that will always harm the most vulnerable in a community worse. there are plenty of queer / disabled / people of colour / etc who have said + done shitty stuff online in the past for whom a harassment campaign could literally be life-ending. or plenty more who have in fact not done shitty stuff online but have been interpreted as such.

in this case, i think it is a straight up shitty terrible set of facts that were discovered. it is also genuinely pretty funny to have an internet weirdo turn out to be a morally compromised person irl. i do however think that this more generally speaks to the mindset of hunting for skeletons in the closet. i've seen it take down far smaller creators for far less.

anyways. just some thoughts.