#and I think that last stint is way more harmful than Jiraiya and Kakashi's ever did

[huskymaine]

Hi Huskymaine,

I read your 'When did Kakashi start to read Icha-Icha Paradise?' post again... And the conversation between you and dinain made me LOLing for a good 2 minutes. Because that's exactly how I took that whole Kakashi and Jiraiya bond to be... I don't know... Casual, Easy Going, Take it Chill and yet Serious when it comes to important stuffs.

Jiraiya writing Smut novels and Kakashi reading it was honestly hilarious to me. And it still is. And I know that it's kind of a Guys thing like exchanging Porn materials...

But why certain part of Naruto Fandom is behaving like a Party Pooper and take everything so serious?? Like claiming Jiraiya to be a Sexual Harasser and Kakashi publicly reading a porn... So he is another Low Key sex offender...

Am like... No😑😑

Am telling you, I am a Girl and I am from Asia... Where crime rates against women are higher than western countries and yet I never once felt Jiraiya and Kakashi to be those harassers and sexist pigs.... But why Naruto fandom is like this???

The same people who claims that K and J as abusers.... Are fighting over whether Sasuke tops or bottoms in Fanfictions... And writing Explicit Headcanons....

I just don't understand this logic. Somehow reading an Explicit Fanfic is okay but when it is done by Jiraiya and Kakashi... They are labelled as (Sex/Misogyn)-ist...

What do you think about Kakashi and Jiraiya when it comes to Icha Icha???

Thanks for the ask Sparrow! 

I am also A Girl and from Asia *high five*. I don’t think that our standard are so different than the Western but I admit that in some part in Asia, sexual offence awareness is not as good as Western. Just a week before I read a manhwa about a woman dumped her baby in orphanage because her boyfriend sneakily doesn’t use protection when having sexual intercourse with her. The man is eager to marry her and take care of their family, so the woman doesn’t even have to search for a job, but she chose to give the baby to orphanage. Why? Because the woman had a dream college and she can’t attend it with baby on her care, while the man doesn’t want to take care of the baby without the woman on his side. In that chapter, when I read Western comments, it filled with condemnation to that scum lying sexist man.

But when I read my country’s people comment about that chapter, they bash the woman because “how could she dump the baby, isn’t the man ready to take care of her? He seems like a good and responsible man. Aren’t you a mother?”. Yeah because having unprotected sex without the woman’s consent is certainly responsible and the woman certainly have to accept being taken care by a man instead of chasing her dream. Because the woman is totally down to be a mother and has no other agenda. The sad part is some of that comments are from women in my country, because most of them are content to be “under man’s care”.

With that being said, still, I agree with you, Kakashi and Jiraiya are not Abusers. Jiraiya did some sexual harassment (peeking is sexual harassment) at certain degree, but I will not call him “predatory” or “sexist”, like the man in the example above. Unlike him, Jiraiya knows basic concept of consent, something that was explained on the latter part of this post (in case you wanna see it first). 

And certainly, Kakashi and Jiraiya are not “Sexual Offender” because of Icha-Icha.

Because that's exactly how I took that whole Kakashi and Jiraiya bond to be... I don't know... Casual, Easy Going, Take it Chill and yet Serious when it comes to important stuffs. Jiraiya writing Smut novels and Kakashi reading it was honestly hilarious to me. And it still is. And I know that it's kind of a Guys thing like exchanging Porn materials...

Yeah, Jiraiya and Kakashi’s relationship is like off-screen friendship for me. Their interaction always felt so mature and straightforward. You know 2 guys who was so different yet can sometimes talk with each other for their mutual interest? Jiraiya and Kakashi are those people. Most times they’re not involved with each other lives, but when it comes to things they both care about, Naruto, Minato, Konoha, or Icha Icha, they chill out somewhere and engage in a serious but also enjoyable discussion. A friendship that is so casual and simple, with no intense or mushy mushy feeling involved.

Also, one of my favorite Kakashi panel is this one.

Are you watching? Jiraiya-sensei!!!

It never fails to make me laugh. I know that talking to dead people is like a second nature for Kakashi at this point, but... My dude, please. I don’t know if this scene is supposed to be heartwarming or else, but it lowkey reminds me of my K-Pop bestie who ping my phone and like “Look, Jungkook is effortlessly doing backflip! Do you see it?” XD

But why certain part of Naruto Fandom is behaving like a Party Pooper and take everything so serious?? Like claiming Jiraiya to be a Sexual Harasser and Kakashi publicly reading a porn... So he is another Low Key sex offender... Am like... No😑😑

To not like a man because they’re pervert is completely okay. To be uncomfortable by it is also okay. That’s their personal preference and and their free choice. Each other’s tolerance for sexual stuff is different after all. 

But indeed to condemn the existence of men’s lust as Sexual Offence is unfair toward men and downright hypocrite. Having sexual desire is a part of being human and to deny that part of them for our fantasy of “heroic pure heart prince” kind of men is unreasonable. I suggest you guys to see this so good mature talk about men and their perv talk in this chapter of Kaguya-sama Love is War (the talk starts at page 10).

Lust is a part of human nature. Be it for man and woman. Even centuries ago in a solitude Imperial Palaces when virginity is a law and eunuchs got their testicle chopped, porn material trades are still happened, albeit very sneakily. So those who accuse men for their smut consumption as sexual offender, do you seriously never read or create smut that sexualizing man too? And if not, will you say that women who read and create smut about man are sexual offender, since that accusation should not be only reserved for male gender? 

If so, then you probably should stay away from me too, because *looking at rated M fics and doujin collections on my computer* I am a Sexual Offender.

Regarding Kakashi, Jiraiya,  Icha-Icha and Sex Offence in general...

Let’s talk about Kakashi first, because I am Kakashi stan haha.

I believe that it has been proven multiple times that Kakashi reads Icha-Icha for the plot. I elaborate about that more on this post. While he indeed almost constantly carried his smut book on his hand, he never deliberately flashed the content in front of minor or others who might get uncomfortable. Heck, even he sometimes mind his own business with his book and never leer at the real life sexual content in front of him.

(btw this is manga only scene)

Just because he has his Icha-Icha book almost constantly on his hand, doesn’t mean that he was constantly thinking about sexual stuff. Numerous times we’ve seen the case when Kakashi has his book at his hand but there’s completely no sexual thought in his head. 

In this panel Kakashi has “Icha-Icha Violence” book on his hand, but his mind clearly doesn’t think of the content in the book at all. He caught Sasuke’s back from hitting the floor and made an observation about Sasuke’s recent fight. 

Also,

“Back then they’d react to every little thing. They were cute back then...”

What a platonic thought in your head with an adult book in your hand, Kakashi-sensei XD 

So indeed Kakashi reads his smut book on public, but that didn’t harm anyone and at that point hardly make anyone uncomfortable, right? It’s as if his Icha-Icha book is a mere part of his accessory, and casual enough to not be constantly noticed as sexual gag. Just like his mask, at first we saw it as a weird design, but as the series goes, we hardly pay attention to is and so are people on Kakashi’s circle. How can it be called as sexual harassment?

Look at this totally serious discussion between Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi with the casual cameo of Icha-Icha book.

The smut book in Kakashi’s hand, did Sakura, Naruto, or even Sai even notice it? If so, did it prevent them to have serious discussion with him? Did it make Kakashi’s mind filled with sexual thought and distract him from the serious matter in front of him? Did it distract Naruto and Sakura from listening to Kakashi at all?

Take a look at Naruto and Sakura’s attentive faces and you can find the answer.

I think I said enough about “Kakashi reads Icha-Icha book on public =/= sexual offender in any shape or form”. Like why is Kakashi a Sexual Offender exactly?

Move on different case, the only time Kakashi was accused for sexual harassment except something related to his Icha-Icha book is just one anime-only scene from Kazekage Rescue arc (the 1000 years of death toward Naruto doesn’t count because it’s a Japanese gag and as far as I know only international fans who saw it as sexual harassment). 

When Kakashi gave Sakura a casual-intention advice and not realizing the social fact that maybe Sakura, as a woman, will not appreciate a comment from Kakashi, as a man, about her body. Like, it’s not a form of teasing or anything, he spoke it as his form of genuine concern and just can’t see the problem with it.    

(Btw I just know when I compile this post that the scene is an Anime-only scene haha)

I’ll.... let you guys decide if that’s a sexual harassment or not (and if you do I really wanna hear your argument about it). At that time, Kakashi truly didn’t think that comment can be interpreted sexually (and so I am). It’s not like he’s leering at Sakura’s body while he made that comment, he spoke with a genuine concern for Sakura’s health. As I said on my previous post, there’s a platonic gap between Kakashi and his students to the point that he can’t comprehend the possibility of something sexual between him and his students. 

At this point, calling him a perv is even an unfair overstatement for him. Let alone Sexual Offender.

Next is Jiraiya. Naruto’s Pervy Sage, Jiraiya.

[Just in case there exist people who hate Jiraiya among my followers or other Kakashi fan who read this post, below “keep reading” line, I stop talking about Kakashi and the bottom post is filled by my neutral observation about Jiraiya, with his pros and cons. Also including the stuff that made this post have the “anti” tags and the “trigger warning” tag. If some of you are uncomfortable with those, you can stop as this point.

You have been warned.]

He’s indeed the writer of Icha Icha series. To write that book he peeked on women’s bath, yes that was a legit sexual harassment. The harassment is only the peeking part, not the writing smut part. As far as I know even in our world and society there’s no sexual offence about writing smut.

He often jokes about sexual stuffs in front of minors, and his choice of words can be ill-phrased. It’s completely valid for others to be bothered by it, because in the end how to treat jokes are depend on the recipient, a.k.a us, the audience. If some people dislike him for that, then so be it. It’s understandable for me and they have every right to.

But if you ask me personally, I can tolerate Jiraiya’s perviness.

Why? It’s because of what you always say, @captnjacksparrow​ , in the end the character’s feeling that matters. 

He jokes with Konan about her adult beauty, but Konan didn’t get offended by it at all, even when she’s grown up. She was just sad by the fact that her teacher will leave him. 

He jokes with Naruto about his Sexy Jutsu, then Naruto protested for it, then Jiraiya trained him with no Sexy Jutsu involved after all, and Naruto let the matter slide. Case closed.

He’s a perv, but there’s no in-universe scene when women get actively harmed by him.

He peeked at women’s bath, and for once rightfully punished for it. When he told a story about it, he doesn’t protest or sugarcoat his punishment at all, he's completely open with it and implied that he gets what he deserves.

So in my personal interpretation, yes Jiraiya is a perv, but he’s somewhat still way behind the line of “harmless”, didn’t step out toward “harmful” and “predatory” category. And that’s why I can tolerate his perviness.

I am not saying that peeking is right. And I am not saying that Jiraiya’s sexual gags and jokes are always okay. If some people get repulsed by them, they have every right to, because in the end, it’s their preference and feeling that matters.

As for me, Jiraiya is a pervert man who has his own bad side, but also has his own good side.

There’s a phrase I’ve read on a book that was somewhat translated in English like this : 

“A Saint can appear like a Sinner when they stepped on an ant, and a Sinner can appear like a Saint when they put down their murder weapon”.

I feel like this phrase is painfully accurate when it comes to fandom discourse, especially about, ahem..... ”antagonist apologist”.

You know what I am talking about, aren’t you ( >,o )

Anyway, same case with Jiraiya. All people on Naruto fandom don’t have to like Jiraiya. Nor tolerating Jiraiya’s antics that was admittedly not always well-received by everyone. But if in any case you’re willing to look past his flaws, he has his good sides, that can be seen by Naruto, Nagato, Konan, Yahiko, Kakashi, Minato, Tsunade, and even Orochimaru. That made them remember Jiraiya fondly even after his death.

He loves Tsunade but when it’s clear that there’s only Dan in Tsunade’s heart, he respected Tsunade’s choice and doesn’t force her to reciprocate his feeling.

He taught Naruto to get stronger for 3 years, at the same time protected Naruto from people who tried to get him, to the point that Naruto himself doesn’t feel hunted, doesn’t feel like a person with a target on his back. In Jiraiya’s side, Naruto is shown happy, bratty, pouting, peaceful, overall a kid that was safe on an adult’s side.

He teaches Naruto and Ame orphans about his life lesson to break the cycle of hatred. The fact that he’s a perv doesn’t make it invalid, because if so then the “those who abandon one of their comrade are worse than trash” lesson is invalid ever since Obito becomes the delusional Harbinger of Disaster.

Lastly, he’s someone who at least know the basic concept of consent. It was proven by a scene that I’ll explain below.

Do you know that there exists a worse, if not the worst, woman’s sex offense scene for me in the whole Naruto franchise?

The act that churned my stomach, that I can’t just tolerate because of the fact that the woman involved is actively getting harmed?

The act that didn’t get treated as a joke, but the offenders literally get their manhood questioned?

The act using woman as a mere tool without considering the woman’s feeling at all?

The act that is sadly get overlooked by the fandom?

That act, is this one below.

(Trigger warning : forced prostitution).

(@captnjacksparrow I am so sorry I know you love Itachi but I have to bash him on this one)

That woman right there, is actively getting harmed because of nothing more than her attractiveness. Because a pair of men want to use her body as a sexual tool for their benefit.

That 2 men with black and bloody cloud cloak right there, at least on that case, is the legit Sex Offenders who will go straight to jail for it in our world.

And the one who saves her, is Jiraiya.

If it’s difficult to care for a random gal, then let’s put ourselves in her shoes for a moment.

You are a woman. A pretty, but ordinary defenseless woman, judging by the lack of shinobi headband. Maybe you are a prostitute, maybe you are a normal hooker, maybe you just like to wear skimpy clothes, but one thing for sure, one day when you just mind your own business, a man with his colleague hypnotize you, with an order to seduce a certain man. You have no choice but to comply with that order. You met the target, winked at him, and he was lured by your seduction.

Now we talk about hypocritical scenario. What if the target has no idea that you are not in your own mind, complied with your seduction, then you and that man engaged in a sexual intercourse? An intercourse that is in no way under your consent at all. What if either in the middle of intercourse, or after it, or even just right before it, you come to your right mind, and feel wronged by the whole situation, as you should? You have no idea about the identity of your brainwasher. You can’t blame the target because as far as he knows you are the one who engaged first and consented for it. To whom you protest for the injustice that befell upon you?

But now we’re talking about what happened on canon, which is thankfully way better than that hypocritical scenario. What if the target knows that you’ve been brainwashed? Then he released you from that brainwashing, without doing anything, because your clothes is still intact. You faint, because you are an ordinary woman who has no luxury of chakra to make you recover yourself. The man is in hurry to catch up saving a child in his care, so he can’t just search for a safe place for you. So he brought you with him, because at least you can’t get attacked (again) when you are on his side. Then he placed your unconscious body behind him, gently, with no unnecessary touch involved.

Now, in that scenario, which one is a sex offender, and which one is the man who has decency to not go further with you after knowing that you have no consent for the interaction? Which one is your attacker, and which one is your protector?

When I first watch it like as 14 years old girl, I don’t feel anything at all. But now, when I grew up and knowing how severe the lack of consent in sexual interaction....

You know what’s on my mind after recovering from the shock of that scene?

“Thank God the target was JIRAIYA.”

Tl;dr : Every person’s tolerance of sexual stuff is different, and we have every right to not tolerate men’s perviness at certain degree depends on each’s comfort. But I think regarding their consumption of smut contents we have to leave those men alone, as long as they didn’t harm anyone. I once accidentally saw my brother’s porn collection when I was 12 and let it slide with a laugh. Imagine how awkward and unpleasant my family dynamic will be if I accuse my bro as “sexual offender” or “predatory”.