#and I don't even want to watch new queer women shows rn I want to continue watchin those great ones till they end

[helenhuntingdon]

Of course another lesbian show was cancelled

[420technoblazeit]

hiiii I like what you were saying abt the difference btwn how spn handles (or doesn't handle) sexuality with crowley and dean (so true bestie) and just wanted to complain about how absolutely steeped in shame/repression the narrative is with sex and sexuality in general. it's just infuriating that this particular facet of conformative pressure from an abusive socially-Christian upbringing is never explored in the show in the way that skewed notions of faith and duty and authority and filial responsibility are. i'm on my first full watch-through (in s11 rn and dreading losing crowley next season) so I've probably missed a lot and may be misinterpreting some of the writers' intentions, but still it's exhausting. I think the funniest way this manifested was when we're introduced to soulless!Sam and we are supposed to know something's off bc he had a no-strings hook-up with a brunette sex worker after being established as the "good" brother who prefers to take things slow and wants a relationship with his sexual partners before smangin' it. Definitely one of the shittiest was when Charlie gets split into "good" and "bad" selves, and only her "bad" self retained her sexuality. And endless agonies with dean's handling of course, but for this convo I think it's really significant that one of the few times the camera actually stays with him for a hookup is in Slice Girls--the sex they have is still pretty vanilla but from the perspective of the show it's definitely toeing the line of "deviancy" by casting dean in a physically submissive role (and!! he liked it!! and him liking it is repeatedly played for laughs and ultimately punished UGH) Like just the general narrative moral "good" in the show is sooo normative in its framing, and it sucks so much. wish we had something more full-throatedly subversive of the ists and isms inherent to the romanticization of Americana and the suburban dream, and it may not be that deep but I think unexamined puritanical shame wrt to sex in general from the writers room really kneecapped their ability to follow through with a meaningfully healing character arc for deano

no you're absolutely right! i think it's very ineteresting that dean's sense of duty is directly paralleled with the angels' whole holy mission thing because they're both abusive situations. the weird thing is that the show is still insistent on showing faith as something that is pure and good that even when you compare sam and dean, it's sam, the 'good' one, that keeps his faith

i think through a queer lens it would've been really interesting to explore the repression dean has and how that ties in to the fact that he was raised in an abusive christian household but the writers never go there because let's face it, they were homophobic so every portrayal of dean's sexuality is through a homophobic lens. on the one hand sam being less sexually active than dean is sometimes portrayed as him having more respect for women, but you're right in the fact that being less sexual is still indirectly tied to sam being the 'good brother' steeped in more christian ideals

i don't remember enough about the charlie soul splitting plot to comment on that part but if that's true then hoooooooly shit. that's like. a new level of homophobia with a character who's canonically queer

anyway i hope you have fun with season 11! best of luck, i don't remember season 12 being particularly enjoyable but i remember having a lot of fun with the character dynamics at least. o7 for crowley ty for the ask

[hashtagloveloses]

But you have posts ranting about Voltron's representation? Which is a much less popular show than Supernatural? And has a lot less reach and fans and therefore influence over those fans? Like there are actual lgbt kids watching who are upset. I'm not trying to be mean, I don't even watch supernatural, but this was about you telling someone who came to you upset "lol! Shut up, It's not that deep, they kill the straights too." And if you don't realize that was wrong...I have nothing more to say.

it helps to think about the difference in context between voltron and supernatural. SPN started in 2005. it is one of if not the ONLY show to survive the switch from the WB to the CW, a flagship and one of the CW’s only real ratings wins (there’s a reason that fucker has been on for a long time). it is also a show for adults, and has always been made by the Hetero Dudes. over the years, women and queer people latched onto it for many reasons i wont get into here and thats why its so big, but there are people better versed in the fandom than i who can attest to how badly that clash of cultures has gone (and well, in some cases).

SPN also has terrible representation ACROSS the board. Cringy racial tropes, terrible track record with women. it has had SOME good things, even with queer characters, but, its truly not a paragon here. its network television for heteros, no matter how hard the fans fight, and network television has a VERY VERY bad track record of representation. it takes EONS for it to improve and its still...mmm iffy.

all this being said - Supernatural is now a niche show. it is ending bc they have wrung the last ounce of money they could out of old faithful - they have Riverdale now, babey!!! the people watching it now are diehard fans. they’re not children or teens whose minds might be molded by a cartoon like voltron that they watch as a child (im sure theres teen fans rn as well but...like there are people younger than SPN’s entire existence).

i am a fervent fan of both of these crap ass shows. the thing about voltron, was that it offered hope. it was being made in a new era where shows like legend of korra and steven universe had paved the path for it. shows that were made in the past few years were conceived in a world where you didn’t need to make Hetero Man Hunter Show and then stumble your idiot hetero writing into being gay. there were new possibilities, where it could be gay from the start.

the voltron creators also openly catered to their queer fans in various ways, unlike the truly mixed messages of SPN over the many years. they catered so MUCH that they KNEW announcing shiro being gay at SDCC would make people lose their MINDS. and when they then fucked the entire thing they were like but we did the inclusion? isnt that what u wanted? voltron was painful bc it offered something better from people who said they understood and then pulled the same crap as before.

with supernatural, it didn’t do anything it hasn’t done before. it lives its crappy, problematic truth. it is the most ON BRAND supernatural thing to pull this right before the end. supernatural throws shit in a blender and keeps it moving, about EVERYTHING.

so no, i don’t think they’re the same. discussing tropes is important. but sometimes it gets a little reductive, and in the process we miss the bigger picture. frankly, it is the years of homophobic, extreme cishet whiteness and queerbaiting that supernatural should be criticized for, not a very predictable kill your gays at the end of the series, when most people in this show have died about 90 times a piece.

[neonapocalypta]

(Mostly) First Impressions of Eternal Filena

CONTEXT: Another thread repost from my twitter during my original batch of Takeshi Shudo stuff I watched while being ill in March. Of course, these are edited for any grammar and anything that didn't need to be there w/ hindsight. This time, I actually had to add stuff in the form of notes. I gotta get back on this watch, I've just been down so many rabbit holes this year. I had also watched cosmos pink shock, but never got around to talking about it despite loving it. I look forward to talking about these shows more someday. (And pretty soon for one of them...)

---

I knew getting ahold of a lot of Takeshi Shudo's early work was gonna be a challenge, but at least according to Wikipedia he did a lot of uncredited work throughout the early 70s. What a shame, even if it seems like he was just a helping hand.

Lucky for me I guess I've seen enough of the guy's work that I can usually tell what he might have written. He has a distinct style from what I've sampled so far. [NEW NOTE: This is in relation to some of the earliest shows he worked on as a writer. I had been having trouble finding his proper credit online for individual episodes he wrote. I had watched those before watching these ovas. During these shows I'd just have to watch an ep and guess if he'd pop up in the credits. I was right pretty much every time. What a nice memory.]

So far, my favs are Radio City Fantasy and Eternal Filena. Radio is a cute love story in twist with a drug trip. Filena is also a love story about two people that have to come together and make shit work.

Filena has 3 versions. The light novel (I can't read it.) the game, and the anime that was never completed. The anime is still worth watching, it has some cool visuals and frankly I love Lila and Filena a lot, so its an added bonus for me. I'm not sure which version is closer to Shudo's LN. My guess would be the anime since it seems like he had more involvement in the writing, but I'm only guessing. The game feels almost has a road trip vibe and is quicker paced compared to the anime.

I know the claim about Prof Ivy being a Lesbian was debunked recently, so its cool to be able to say Takeshi Shudo has written a lesbian couple. I know there's talk about Filena being a trans man, and I think that's valid. Though it seems like this is mostly talked about from the perspective of the game, where their character is written a bit different than the show. (Less openly affectionate, more traditionally masculine personality)

Also, if Filena is a trans the ending of the game is pretty terrible then, forcing them to wear a dress when they don't want to. (Aka forcing them to conform to women gender roles in this case.) I'm not saying that's why I think Filena isn't trans, I'm saying if they are, that's a really shitty ending for a trans guy. Epesh bc Lila, their partner, is making them wear it.

My guess is that Shudo intended them to be a lesbian couple. Rn having access to the novels would be really helpful. If you've never read a Shudo novel, at the least the Pokemon ones are written a lot different than most books. Most people would say he's a terrible writer, but I disagree. At least in those books you can feel his brain throughout the page. No one else could have written those books in that exact way. He has a voice, lets say, and I'm sure the writing style is the same in the EF LNs. Either way, I think it's so cool to have a series from the 90s that lets people speculate about queer identities and there's viable text to provoke discussion.

It's also cool to see how our main couple is treated. They live in a world where they're slaves and are only seen as entertainment. Together they see each other as loved ones, work ingas a team to create a better future for themselves. It's something you have to read/play to completely get what I mean and I think the anime is better at showing this aspect. But trust me, there's a warmth to their relationship past the romance. (no matter what type of couple they are.) With it being a romance, makes it better. Double for gay interpretation. It doesn't feel it was written to be "Lesbians be hot" but more "This is a couple". Even if in Shudo's novel they don't end up together (they do in the game.) or it goes any other way in the end, I still really respect how they're written.

MORE END OF THE GAME SPOILERS: They become queens at the end. Like Lila is on the throne with Filena. Based.

I'd love to keep talking about Filena and Lila at length bc I think they're great, but I don't want to spoil anything else. Btw the game is on the SNES and never got localized (i WoNdEr WhY?) so Filena being either a gay woman or a trans protag is pretty cool considering the era. Fuck, her being a woman protag by itself was a big deal for that era as far as I know.

*Btw not saying the Queer themes are the only reason this wasn't brought over. I could guess several like how it looks like FF or how its an adult property, and more. [NEW NOTE: I think I meant it looks enough like Final Fantasy that investors wouldn't want to risk it being in competition with those games. tbh that coulda made it a better candidate for an ENG release during certain times as well. I was just spit ballin' but it bothered me enough to add this note. While we're here, I think between it's adult and Queer themes, and also coming out in 95 is most likely why it stayed JPN excusive. I should have mentioned its late release date (for the SNES), but when you're sick and on twitter things slip through the cracks I guess.]

The game has a fan translation and there's a recent lp that shows it off. I'd say check it out if you like that era of JRPGs in general. Personally, for English speakers at least, the game then the anime is the best way to go since you'll get a full story first.

There's several reasons I like one version over the other but that's small shit and I've written enough for now. I wasn't planning on this thread becoming about Filena but I guess it is national Women's day [At time of writing] and no matter Filena's gender, Lila is a queen.

Also sorry if I get anything wrong. Espesh about Shudo's career. Info on the english web is not great. Like some websites say Radio city was his first work at 18, but it came out in 1984 and he was born in 1949. If I get anything wrong, I'll correct it.

i got a lot more Shudo stuff I've seen and want to see, so maybe next time I'll post more about Radio city. This was meant to be a small update thread lol.