#and I am in constant combat with the 20-tag and 30-tag limits on this website

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Hi! First of all I appreciate everything TPN related you do lol, so glad to see that there is a community even though I myself joined the fandom late.

I love Ray’s character arc and basically everything he does. How the trio complement each other and make up for each other's weaknesses. How Ray learns to hope again and what not…but, I have been having difficulty pin pointing the exact moment Ray went from-I’ll only save Emma and Norman to I’ll save my entire family.

Was It a secret thing all along? Because something tells me that Ray always planned to kill himself and die in the manner he preferred rather than what was planned for him. (Not only to resolve his guilt, but also to give a final screw u to both Isabella and the demons. That this plan of his would have been enacted even if Norman was never shipped.

On that note…. Did Norman really agree with Ray’s insistence of leaving everyone behind? Or did he just say ok to acquiesce and reassure Ray (whom Norman might have realised had been spiralling for a long time)? Had Norman not been shipped would he have spent the two months trying to chip away at Ray’s walls/ give him hopes in bits and pieces and convince him? I don't believe that Norman agreed with Emma’s choices just because he liked her (even in ss1)

Thoughts?

Heyyoo late fandom joiners/Ray enthusiasts 😎🤝😎 and thank you! 💝 TPN tumblr has a cozy feel to it and for the most part is pretty chill.

Ray's journey from "I'll endure all the heartache of this hell if it means I can save my two best friends" to "If nothing else, I have to at least save Emma" to being able to do what his mother couldn't and love his family normally is so profoundly endearing and a significant part of what makes the escape arc so beloved, and I'm glad this post where I delve into it a bit more ended up being among my more popular ones:

One could argue Ray hallucinating Norman up on the wall was to assuage his own guilt at being unable to save him as he originally planned (something that, on his darker days, I think Ray himself would believe), but I prefer to view it as the final marker of his truly internalizing one of the deepest desires in his heart that he had locked away for so long. After living under that oppressive reality of dehumanization and exploitation and believing that there was nothing else for him, that this was all there was, that things would never get better and after everything he did up to that point, he didn’t deserve better, on top of Isabella throwing him completely off balance by shipping Norman out early and just being this incredibly conflicting and painful presence in his life, to have his siblings come together for this escape plan and without putting it explicitly in words convey “you’re worth saving, Ray, and we love you,” and that they gave him hope back…it fucks me up something fierce.

Was It a secret thing all along? Because something tells me that Ray always planned to kill himself and die in the manner he preferred rather than what was planned for him. (Not only to resolve his guilt, but also to give a final screw u to both Isabella and the demons. That this plan of his would have been enacted even if Norman was never shipped.

Shirai confirmed it took Ray about a year between making the deal with Isabella to conceiving of self-immolation being the linchpin for keeping her attention on him instead of a hypothetical Emma and Norman escaping:

(Mystic Code Book Chapter 1 Q&A)

Though we don't exactly when he was old enough and graduated to helping out in the kitchen to be able to start hoarding the lighter fluid under his bed, I think it's safe to say he'd been at it for a few years, in the same vein as acquiring the parts for the deactivator.

And yes, there is so much emotion steeped into his final speech to Emma as he's fully succumbed to the belief he deserves to die in the most excruciating manner possible (adore the nuance the anime adds to this scene [from this post]:)

(The little slump of his shoulders when he starts that second line, too. Granted, it takes a lot to undo years of such belief and self-loathing, but the resignation in his voice and body language is crushing.)

And then plagiarizing myself yet again from this post:

Ray’s retaliatory act of spite was threefold in its pettiness: 1. to Emma he verbally confirms he intends to deprive the demons of the feast they waited twelve years for 2. to Isabella the caretaker who sacrificed her charges so that she could live, he silently denies the means of prolonging her pitiful life 3. to Isabella his mother he proves that he’s better than her, that he isn’t afraid to die because dying as a human is better than whatever pathetic existence she had carved out for herself, ideally forcing her to look at him one last time with the same look of terror she had on her face the day she realized their biological connection These are what I think he’d focus on in his moments of anger over the years, though he’d still primarily be guided by a selfless love for Emma and Norman. It’s a misplaced, manic bravado he’d whipped himself into that night, thinking his death would be “the best way” to both ensure the survival of his last most precious person in the world and atone for all the siblings he did nothing to save, but this is the headspace he’s in after a lifetime under such an oppressive existence.

Did Norman really agree with Ray’s insistence of leaving everyone behind? Or did he just say ok to acquiesce and reassure Ray (whom Norman might have realised had been spiraling for a long time)? Had Norman not been shipped would he have spent the two months trying to chip away at Ray’s walls/ give him hopes in bits and pieces and convince him? I don't believe that Norman agreed with Emma’s choices just because he liked her (even in ss1)

If everything had gone as originally planned, they would have left on November 8, 2045.

(Chapter 11 | S1 Episode 4; this is also super funny when you think of how part of the reason Norman is saying this is to get back at Ray for throwing him off balance with his betrayal by knocking him off balance. "Yeah‚ thought you wouldn't like that. Bitch." kdjfksdjh <3)

But regardless, Norman agreed with Ray from a pragmatic stance, in the sense he saw Ray's plan of just having the three of them, Don, and Gilda escaping as being more likely to succeed, but he actively chose to follow Emma's plan and strive for the ideal outcome. It's what underpins the whole "build a boat out of mud" speech.

From here:

But like episode 1 foreshadows with him silently chiding himself for only initially considering the possibility of him, her, and Ray escaping

that adorable pause of awe and wonderment hearkens back to this panel that is so very integral to his being:

(Chapter 14) Even with each new development, she still remains true to her ideals, operating with kindness and understanding until proven without a shred of doubt that doing so is futile because that’s the world she wants to live in (e.g., speaking with Leuvis about avoiding a confrontation, but shifting gears as soon as he confirms his priority is amusement and conflict because it would jeopardize the lives of all the children at Goldy Pond to pursue it further). There's a deep admiration that's been present for years, and now that their reality has been permanently shifted, it's even stronger as the one constant he's never doubted.

However, he was deeply, deeply hurt at Ray's perceived betrayal, and for those last two weeks of October 2045, he was genuinely willing to toss Ray aside before deducing Ray's true motivations, at which point he's firmly slotted back into the "dear friend who must be saved at all costs" category of Norman's mind (I delve into this more here and here).

This post is already really link heavy, but if you're interested, I have an assorted list of tags I use on this blog, and I use FSS Chatter for my non-jokey original posts and responses, including:

• Ah yes, one of my favorite genres of baby full score trio pictures: Isabella being openly affectionate toward Emma and Norman in front of Ray while being hands off with him • The little bow of reflection and smile Ray makes as he briefly soaks in the last morning Emma and Norman will be able to carry out their routine as usual • "I think I could survive truly horrific circumstances if I had a crush on someone there" • "If Ray and Norman couldn't kill Isabella because the alarm would go off when her heart stopped, why didn't they incapacitate her in another way?" • Why I love the way the anime adapted the exchange between the full score trio in chapter 27 and chapter 28 • The follow-up post to ^ • Forever obsessed with and contemplating what’s going through Isabella and Ray's heads during this scene in S1e07 • "If I were greedy…" (Musings on Ray's line to Isabella in S1 episode 7) • The inclusion of these two frames of the anime is everything to me actually • My thoughts on Ray having purple eyes and how that would affect his relationship with his family • What did Ray write in the note he uses as bait for Krone? • What would an Isabella and Ray reconciliation look like • Some more angsting over Isabella and Ray's relationship • When you think about how these panels in chapter 159 are of Emma contemplating what makes a person themselves and whether losing one's memories constitutes death… • My guess about what Norman says to Ayshe in chapter 160 • TPN 181 - WSJ Release vs Volume Release Differences • I kind of wish the boxart for S2 was as detailed as S1's…but I do really love how angelic they look here

I also have some small guides regarding the light novels if you haven't already read them (here and here), and a tag specifically for Isabella and Ray's fraught and complicated relationship if you enjoy angsting over that.

Also also if you haven't seen it I highly recommend checking out the English TPN masterlist complied by @1000sunnygo it's an invaluable resource I use all the time for references.