#and (at least for the primes) dont really interfere with mortal life unless mortals actively fuck with them

[shellem15]

One thing I’ve seen people talking about as a possible solution to the whole gods issue is turning the gods mortal—permanently.

Remove the throne entirely. Put gods and mortals on the same playing field. This option does have one obvious benefit: if the gods are like everybody else, then the damage they can inflict is severely reduced.

But I don’t think this is as clean an answer as people think it is, for multiple reasons. My first question would be “what happens to clerics and paladins?” Now, we know that divine magic exists outside the gods, but the vast majority of clerics and paladins (aka our primary healers) get their magic from gods. I imagine learning how to harness that magic outside the gods would be a pretty steep learning curve, so removing that source of power would cause a whole boatload of issues for healthcare in Exandria.

Another problem would be the mass amounts of social upheaval due to the loss of these divine figures. Wars would be fought, communities destroyed, massive power vacuums opened— thousands would die if the gods were destroyed (or made mortal.) Not to mention, the power vacuums and violence opened up on planes other than Exandria. Celestials and angels would be leaderless and directionless, demons would be free to wreak havoc on other planes. Devils are explicitly kept in line by the Lord of the Hells, without him to control them, what effect would the resulting power-struggle have on Exandria and the rest of the planes?

My third question would be how this change would effect their domains? I don’t think it would erase them entirely, the world is here and here to stay, but much like the social upheaval I think there would be much upheaval in how Exandria functions. The domains the gods rule over would be left on their own, with no one to guide or direct them. This, I imagine, would have its own set of benefits and drawbacks.

My fourth question is, would turning the current gods mortal prevent new gods from ascending? Or would it just leave the throne open, like Ashton said. Unless the concept of godhood was removed entirely, wouldn’t this problem just repeat itself? With no guarantee that those new gods will be at all merciful or tolerant towards mortals. Additionally, I have to ask what this would mean for near-godly entities. What about Archfey, Archdevils, Demon Lords, Archangels, and other Demi-powers? Where do they fit in this new order? They give spells, have worshippers, hold powers greater than mortals could imagine. How much power is too much power to have when it is fundamental to one’s nature?

I want to take a moment to talk about a scene from the Witch, the Wizard, and the Wild One, which is run by Bleem himself and has Lou Wilson, Erika Ishii, and Aabria Iyengar as players (which you should definitely check out it’s so good y’all). Heavy Spoilers for Arc 1 ahead:

In the city of Port Talon, our heroes learn that the wizards of the Citadel have imprisoned the great spirit of the ocean, Naram, underneath the barracks out in the harbor. Naram is a gentle spirit, and has been holding back from freeing himself, because he knows that in doing so he would destroy Port Talon. Naram’s wife, Orima of the Reaching Green, is not a gentle spirit, and has been encircling the city with deadly kudzu to try to free Naram. Eursulon, one of our heroes, frees Naram but gets trapped in his place. Naram stays to free Eursulon in turn, and has a moment of decision to make. Ame, the Witch of the World’s Heart, can influence this decision. Either Naram can sacrifice himself to free Eursulon, destroying himself but sparing Citadel forces. Or, he can choose to destroy the barracks, freeing Eursulon but damming the Citadel Wizards and their forces.

Ame and Naram chose violence, and the barracks are destroyed. The scene is truly horrifying, the destruction and death extraordinary even while Naram is being as precise as he can be. He is simply too vast a being to be delicate amongst humanity, despite all his efforts. He still loves Port Talon, still chooses mercy whenever he can. He is just on another playing field entirely.

I want to note, however, that the vastness of his being doesn’t make him evil. It doesn’t make Orima evil, despite her propensity for extreme violence and antagonism towards our heroes. They think a lot like humans, but aren’t human. Their morality is not the same as ours, and that informs their actions. Naram’s destruction would have, perhaps, reduced the net violence that occurred. But it also would have removed a source of great magic and wonder from the world, one that could never have been gotten back. Who are we to destroy or change a being simply because they do not play by our rules? Simply because they act in accordance to their nature and are greater than us?

(Spoilers over)

The last question I want to ask is one more about the personal ethics in turning the gods mortal. Because if you think about it for a minute, it’s really fucked up actually. This isn’t reappropriating wealth from a rich person, this is fundamentally changing the gods’ nature. Likely by force for a lot of them. And I’m sorry, there are so many ethical issues with that.

It’s important to keep in mind, while the gods are quite human-like, they aren’t human. The gods we see in downfall are a fraction of their true power and their true selves, filtered through a mortal lens. They are messy and emotional and have complex feeling and emotions but they are also greater concepts like nature and law and destruction. You cannot separate these two sides of them, you cannot separate the mortal from the divine. To do so would fundamentally change their beings, and that has absolutely horrifying implications.

I’m reminded of a scene from the Last Unicorn, where the unicorn wakes up in a human body. She is horrified, weeping and crying about what she has lost. She can feel her body is different, it’s wrong, it’s dying around her and she can do nothing to stop it. Her mind is human and her memory of her life before fades. She becomes a unicorn again by the end of the movie, but she is forever changed. Forever burdened by knowing love and loss and pain. Something she was never supposed to know.

What would happen if you removed Asha from the Wildmother? You are being that is one with the world and knows the roots of every plant, can hear the beating of every animal’s heart, are interwoven with the mountains and the forests and the rivers and the seas. And then, suddenly, all of that is gone. Suddenly you exist solely within a body of flesh and bone, one that ages and dies, one that forgets the life before. You cannot feel the roots, you cannot hear the heartbeats, the mountains and the forests and the rivers and the seas are no longer yours. Are no longer you. Would that be more or less horrifying than becoming real, do you think?

In some ways, you are capable of changing, now. You can be anything. But you are no longer eternal. You are limited in the scope of what is you. And isn’t that another horror?

Congratulations, the gods are mortal. You’re on the same playing field, but the world has lost a great source of magic and wonder. You have changed them. I hope it was worth it.

Maybe Tishar is right. We really do love destroying things we don’t understand.

In the end, I don’t think there are any clear or clean answers here. Everything is going to be messy, there’s always going to be someone left unsatisfied. I’m just laying out my thoughts on the matter, and why turning the gods human isn’t as clean a solution as people seem to think it is.