#although tbf it makes sense that writing abt this time in his life in general would cause him to not be a Great partner or dad lol

[bununuu]

just a note that you can read Siegfried's Journey, 1916-1920 (published 1945) on the Internet Archive! https://archive.org/embed/in.ernet.dli.2015.209620 this is the vol where he talks about his relationship with Wilfred (on p. 58-76ish)

apparently people took some offense at the time to how he described Wilfred, but honestly i think it's really sweet :(((

[herotheshiro]

so i reread all of behind the desks today lol bc i was thinking abt it last night as i was going to sleep, and also fully read through the epilogue chapters which i don’t think i had done before. which means i read through all of the plot points all at once this time around. i think my thoughts for this readthrough might end up being the length of a regular post so i’m just writing up a new post instead of reblogging my old review of this manhwa. obviously spoilers for the story below the cut

again i like this manhwa mainly bc of 2 things:

i like the juxtaposition of young’s obviously manipulative language with taesung’s innocent language that also sounds suspiciously the same. obviously you know taesung has positive intentions and isn’t a controlling freak like young but it’s such an interesting way to depict the aftermath of an abusive relationship and the difference in intentions despite the same words even though in retrospect that probably wasn’t what the author was trying to do. unless... ?

sunny seo as a character!! on the surface he definitely seems to fall under the standard BL uke tropes of being clumsy and looking pretty and stuck in a love triangle as the shared obj of affection but from the very beginning you already know he’s not a pushover but he just seems like that bc he doesn’t really have or express strong opinions. a lot of BLs tend to have the shared obj of affection be like oh nooo i can’t pick bw the 2 of them... but i mean from the start sunny doesn’t want to be w young and his fear of backlash and change is what motivates his secret-keeping from taesung... also throughout the story they imply that he’s a good match for taesung who canonly likes action stuff by being someone who actually likes high-energy activities/vibes. tl;dr sunny is generally a good character who also has a lot of foreshadowing done for him to reveal aspects of his personality that contribute to the story

anyway onto my thoughts that i had during this specific readthrough

jaeyoon. anyone who read my prev review for this manhwa knows that i had beef w how they used him during the conclusion to young and sunny’s relationship. i now realize that maybe they DID actually give him a face reveal during his wedding when young and sunny split off to chat with a friend each and the friend who spoke to sunny was actually jaeyoon himself... BUT YOU GOTTA FUCKING SAY THAT!! i suspected they were the same guy bc of the hair color and them always hiding jaeyoon’s face until that “random” moment where they give this character who looks like him a face but like i was never sure... no offense to the author or anything but i think you have to put in-text that it’s jaeyoon and not assume readers will know based on your art that it’s him... there are too many side characters who show up so it’s not like we’ve ONLY seen taesung/sunny/young so far so now this 4th person who shows up has to be jaeyoon... i mean maybe other readers ID-ed it as him w no issue esp since he shows up being like ‘dude...’ when that other friend is like ‘well jaeyoon was in rehab and stuff’ but i personally think it should’ve been mentioned in-text esp since that face reveal wasn’t nearly dramatic enough to 100% capture readers’ attentions.

otherwise i think the fact that jaeyoon and taesung are similar is a great plot point. jaeyoon was clearly the only friend in that group who saw young and sunny’s relationship accurately so i’m glad sunny had at least one GOOD friend then. jaeyoon is implied to be someone who takes care of others similar to taesung (even if it’s only sunny he dotes over the most) too. other than young’s general possessiveness of sunny, them being similar also explains why young saw jaeyoon as such a threat. but yeah unfortunately i still don’t think it was handled as well as it could have been.

young’s explanation for his behavior towards sunny... i hesitate to say it was the standard “villain redemption” but tbf i think it was a good explanation for his actions even if it felt a little too clean of a conclusion (young letting go of sunny so easily and also apparently realizing and accepting how damaging he was to him). i say it’s partially redeeming bc it shows that young was kind of trapped in such a specific and damaging way of thinking abt life that it affected how he treated sunny but it’s also not really redeeming him bc like. be normal man lol you don’t have to be like that to others.

separate but related note but young’s mindgaming of taesung... when he was like oh everything abt sunny seo you like is bc of me... like DAMN that’s evil and good (writing-wise). although the thing is that young and sunny also haven’t interacted apparently for 5 years so i mean you do have to realize that by the time taesung reunites w him, sunny has developed enough of an individual personality so it’s not ALL young’s shit. 

in my last review i said i felt like i wanted more of young and sunny’s history... tbh i think they gave us enough actually. all we really need to know is that they’ve known each other for a very long time and that young manipulated sunny enough during an impressionable time (young age, college. ppl know how college can be lol) that sunny felt that young was the only one for him. i was actually surprised jaeyoon’s story/details came up so quick in the story (i think it showed up in the 1st half of the manhwa) but i think it was a good point bc the story had to move on to the middle/2nd half of sunny and taesung trying to get their relationship to work. past me was also apparently looking for this scene in the bar apparently where young explains his “reasons” to taesung lol

not really much to say this time abt the hosung x young endgame. still don’t think they should’ve done it or had hosung have unrequited feelings but whatever i guess. tbh i didn’t really realize/connect until this time around that hosung actually was in freelancing art/publishing which was why taesung had him look at sunny’s work lol... i think last time that part in the epilogue hadn’t been translated yet so i just didn’t have the room to make the connection maybs

the epilogue ending... so i actually never read the epilogue ending or at least its eng translation, and i was like hell yea at the full circle shit w sunny being like ‘oh the cherry blossom petals are falling just like when i first met taesung in the infirmary’ but then the ch kept going w taesung and sunny on the beach... idk i think ending it literally at sunny being like ‘w you i feel alive’ was such an abrupt ending... like maybe if they added another panel of them smiling at each other it could’ve been fine but if the author was running low on time i honestly think they could’ve ended it at the scene of sunny accepting his contest award

also when sunny was like ‘yeah lol all my classmates at the children’s book program also get sick all the time’.... i was like bruh this author is prob speaking from actual experience lmao

the other thing abt the ending that was a little random was the quick aside abt taesung’s mom being against their relationship... i mean it was a reference to the mom wanting taesung to get married in the main story but then they dropped it and then suddenly brought it back up again... randomly adding that taesung had a sister who was his contact w their mom... like i get it, it wraps up the loose end of his mom but wow i was uh ok random ch abt potential family conflicts. also where are sunny’s parents lol but that would’ve been too much to get into too regardless of homophobia or not lol

overall it’s still a pretty solid manhwa. stuff proceeds at a good pace and the conflicts/misunderstandings make sense. i said before it’s kinda like a love triangle but it’s really not which works w me bc i don’t like love triangles that much (they stress me out lol); it’s also good bc young is clearly toxic for sunny and it’s good that sunny knows that rather than sunny being like “oh i know he’s bad but also... hmm maybe i can overlook it”. the manhwa’s not perfect -- i still get the sense the writing could be better even if i can’t really enunciate why -- but enough details are tied together that there’s nothing major i have to extrapolate bw (like i can overlook the jooyeon mishap even though it legit threw me off the 1st time i read through). also yes i know the manhwa is based off of a game w characters essentially already established but my understanding is that the author/artist essentially had to write up a lot of the actual story themselves even if they had a general plotline provided to follow

also the final author’s note abt the author personally preferring fucked up stories... when i started rereading i was like wait isn’t this the same artist for that one manhwa where the characters look like the k!lling st@lking? mains and even if i didn’t remember i would’ve realized w that author’s note lol. i think fortunately for them that sunny isn’t an entirely “pure” character so they had enough room to make him a little more twisted.

[nozomijoestar]

Transcribed and formatted for readability the master thesis between me and @wlwclem​ on the nuances to NaraTrish together and as individuals being why we love it and respect it not being CompHet- we spent way too much Big Brain Energy on it to not share 

tw: brief mention of F-Slur when giving an example on toxic masculinity being bullshit, sexuality is briefly discussed in a non sexualizing way and in no graphic detail

*insert IM TRISH KIN BUCCIARATI joke here*

epickinnienaranciaYesterday at 11:45 PM

JDDBSJDBD YES bc ofc she gotta be Reassuring but at the same time his Himboism Knows No Bounds One of the lines in EoH u can give her is “Go get me an Italian Vogue magazine too while you’re at it” and I’m like. Queen

nozomijoestarYesterday at 11:46 PM

JDHDHDF BDE Narancia whipped Narancia stands no chance

epickinnienaranciaYesterday at 11:46 PM

OH FOR REAL one of HIS victory lines is something about getting all the stuff for her lmao And this is like even if she isn’t in the battle, Always Thinking Of His Queen

nozomijoestarYesterday at 11:50 PM

Trish decides to test the limits of this and his ability to recognize them by asking for impossible or nonexistent items/feats and when he continues to try for her without question she realizes she has too much power and must restrain it fjdjjdjfjf Can't turn into Dad

epickinnienaranciaYesterday at 11:51 PM

JDBDBSJS The color palette changes while she has an inner monologue while she watches him try to make her happy

nozomijoestarYesterday at 11:53 PM

"Oh my god Bucciarati was right...he's too loyal for his own good I need to stop even if it's a little fun"   Meanwhile Narancia: growing more and more frustrated with himself for perceived failure to someone he loves

epickinnienaranciaYesterday at 11:55 PM

She stops for the most part but does it every so often bc it’s cute

nozomijoestarYesterday at 11:56 PM

Lucky to have a freak like dat I feel like the only thing that can counter this self defeatism Narancia can get (bc his younger childhood...ofc he's fucked up and anxious and paranoid abt not being enough or abandoned) is Trish having to open her own repressed self up and love the shit out of himLike those reassuring lines she has in EoH and her moments in the anime/manga Bruno fucking does it as his father figure and Narancia admits it gives him strength

December 19, 2019

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:04 AM

Yes, he feels like he has to prove his worth and like he’s worth having around otherwise he’s useless, i def feel like he would not like talking about the stuff that happened in the past with everyone bc he would feel ashamed and stupid or st, he needs to be told You Are Enough and her to open up too so they can lean on each other

nozomijoestarToday at 12:12 AM

Honestly no jokes for a second I feel like this is also abt breaking toxic masculinity bc it's fucking Italy in the early 00s just out of the 90s...it was RIFE rifer than even now with that shit like in much of the world then too, the idea that a boy becoming a man and men in general need to strictly follow dumbass self harming rules

 especially abt not opening up and only having real priorities for earning money, honoring family, and procreating as much as possible whether it's marriage making a family or "having sexual conquests" in promiscuity, anything outside of this bullshit image can't be tolerated and you might as well be a woman or "a fag" if you don't assert some fictional narrative of trying extremely hard to have power in everything bc that's all that matters is the ridiculous idea of Alpha Males applied to humans 

Narancia being a 80s- 90s kid with the childhood he had did not give him much fighting chance at all in this context and time period  esp just bc he happened to be born with a dick and thus saddled with these harmful expectations society made that could've only further repressed his recognition of not beating himself up and his own emotional needs on top of EVERYONE ever betraying him Where was he supposed to go? He can't go anywhere unless he meets Bruno

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:18 AM

yes i agree..... like, males being looked down upon for opening up, being societally forced to shoulder the burdens and “man up” and just deal with it and fix everything. And then already having a toxic support system with his “friend” betraying him and his dad Sucking Major Ass, all he’s been taught is deal with it but hasn’t been given the tools to know how, and if Bruno didn’t meet him he honestly would be so stuck, what person (esp in that time period) is going to go out of their way to help an uneducated young male?

nozomijoestarToday at 12:20 AM

Even if it tragically ends with his death in canon I feel like the time he spent with Bruno's bois, Giorno, and Trish was huge in making some of that crack little by littleBc he has moments where you see how sweet he actually is, his "real" personality if you will underneath all the unresolved anger when he's with ppl he sees love him and give him hope When Giorno said No One Is Going To Hurt You Anymore that just made me cry harder

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:23 AM

Yes! Like, ofc he gets angry, has unrepressed rage and reactions to things, he hasn’t had any type of emotional support in SO long and it’s not like it’s 100% fantastic in that regard with buccigang (which don’t get me wrong they are family but they are still in an aggressive gang and go off and give each other lots of shit)-YEAH AND THE FUCKIGN PLANT GROWING TOO IM

nozomijoestarToday at 12:25 AM

Trish is legit I think the one person aside from Giorno who would treat him without even the gang's aggressiveness Narancia is my fav in VA even if Bruno is the best written VA character bc he's me, this kind of shit in my life is why I developed PTSD undiagnosed since my childhood that only kept getting worse until only this year have I gotten any true help I know exactly how he feels 

Esp when you think your whole life exists to serve others never yourself NaraGio shippers I see y'all argument even if I don't follow it tbh, Gio was again the only one besides Trish to consistently care for Nara in day to day and when he was in danger and esp during the Clash and Talking Heads fight Gio was the one dude present like No Narancia It's Ok Please Tell Me What's Wrong You're Clearly Stressed

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:31 AM

yeah although i haven’t experienced it i can still empathize and try to understand, i think there’s so many layers of protection and walls that most people never truly look past it to see the root cause or true self YES that fight was so frustrating bc they were all like Narancia stop being an idiot when something was clearly wrong and he was obviously in distress!!

nozomijoestarToday at 12:32 AM

Also Gio was the only one who first asserted that No, Narancia did the right thing in fighting Formaggio

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:33 AM

Yes and with that whole interaction the gang often uses Narancia as the scapegoat essentially and just give him shit for every little thing without trying to understand his POV

nozomijoestarToday at 12:33 AM

The Clash fight tbh I feel was an ass pull set up to give Narancia his big bad ass loyalty proving moment even if it's a great fight that beginning part is...only the Trish and Gio interactions rly make sense fjdjdjI wish him and Giorno hung out more or I guess more like talked more bc you can't rly hang out when you're getting assassinated every day hfgdg

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:36 AM

Yeah hdkdb, even with Fugo, even tho he found him and brought him to Bruno, he still calls him a dumbass, stabs him with a fork and shit, and then with Mista even tho I feel like they are Like Bros, he destroys Narancia’s radio for no fucking reason and also has a pattern of taking shit Narancia paid for without paying him backI def agree with that, I feel like Giorno interactions were lacking in that there really weren’t many one on one meaningful things so it’s hard for me to grasp his personal headspace and relationships a lot of the time

nozomijoestarToday at 12:37 AM

However to be a little more fair to the Bucci gang the manga version has Narancia trying a lot lot more to get their attention in logical ways that unfortunately Talking Heads completely ruins, he tried writing to let them know what was happening and TH warped the text into him saying vulgar things bragging abt his dick being a powerful Stand

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:38 AM

Yeah I was gonna add I wasn’t sure if the manga had other stuff, tbf

nozomijoestarToday at 12:38 AM

I think this is also Shounen Tropes of the 90s at play too the "child" character was often written as the comic relief dumbass Narancia suffers it so it does add a layer of Not Good to his relationships The trope still exists tbh Anime cut out him writing I assume bc it's too sexual It's already pushing it having him whip it out and piss in front of everyone jfhdhd

epickinnienaranciaToday at 12:41 AM

Yeah you right, it’s like the i want it to be that deep meme, like Araki obvi doesn’t have him only as comic relief but if he delved into his character more there would’ve been so much more that could’ve been done and shown YEAH DJDBDJDJF I WAS SURPRISED THT WAS ANIMATED

------------------------[ CUT INTERMISSION ]-----------------------------

nozomijoestarToday at 12:51 AM

Ok but to get back on track with where I was trying to go even opening this all up is how it's critical to NaraTrish in a mutually beneficial way

nozomijoestarToday at 1:01 AM

Nara is no incel he's a King obvs but he is also at heart a confused scared kid uncertain of anything in the world beyond what's closest in his grasp and without someone actively believing in and validating him he can't fully achieve awareness of healthy dynamics and even the problems within the ones he already has with his gang and Bruno- Trish doesn't have to babysit him and be the stereotypical The Woman Only Supports And Gives Up Her Body bc thats never her and couldn't be her and Narancia wouldn't make her that way bc even when he kinda touches on that (giving in a bit to the idea that men are the main protectors of women) when he gets too fixated on wanting what he thinks is for her wellbeing he does snap out and acknowledge he's wrong bc 

Trish by her independent nature and tremendous Will proves those stereotypes are bullshit, not even factoring in their first meeting as already making a huge impression on his beliefs of what girls can do- Trish knowing how to challenge him by staying true to herself yet having the compassion to help someone suffering and with fewer chances from birth than she had would not only win him over but give him something even Bruno can't, self sustaining confidence, bc Trish isn't part of a chain of command, she's just a girl in love with a boy who wants him to be happy and that concept while foreign to him for so long once it kicks in he could actually learn to build himself For himself and For someone who wouldn't use him for some greater schemes or dirty work, 

I love Bruno ok he's one of the best characters in anything ever but his flaw in his ability to help motivate ppl is tied to that fact that he's bringing them into a dangerous strict order of command to Serve not entirely in a place/way that lets them just be themselves and realize organic loving relationships with anyone and themselves SO

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:05 AM

they’re healing...... being shown love without a position of authority or any obligations is so powerful for his growth

nozomijoestarToday at 1:25 AM

That all being said, Everything Trish does he's paying attention to, she keeps him alive during the Grateful Dead fight not because she needs him to serve for a cause ( a cause might I add even Bruno the near saint he is was ready to let Nara go right then and there for bc death is in the job description) but because she doesn't know him well yet and shit he even swung a knife at her when they first met over who was in the bathroom, but he's a person suffering and in pain and to let him die even if it's Expected Of The Mission is garbage to her even if she respects Bruno down the line as a father compared to fucking evil Diavolo,

 Trish constantly goes out her way to do these things for Nara bc Trish instinctively knows he's the most vulnerable mentally and her sense of compassion and justice (likely something Donatella made sure to instill in her before her death by cherishing Trish and spoiling her even as a single mother) will not stand to not help someone when she could've- and he reciprocates it even if in disbelief bc he can tell This Person Is Safety, This Person Is Like Me Yet Not, A Better Me I Want To Be, by the time he's about to die someone with his fragile mind was actually gaining conviction about taking control for himself on his own terms and he would risk even those chances to defend the person who actually helped him arrive there (along with Gio) in the first place, 

I think by the end of his life he rly did love her or start to, it being romantic or not is up to individual interpretation to which you know I'm in the romance camp, point is he found someone who truly taught him strength without him fully realizing it and did so without belittling him, if anything instead treating him only with love and kindness and patience (not being a door mat for him, but like, not treating him like ass like everyone else has their moments of either), I think anything Trish asks of him, this is all why he's so willing to do it on top of feeling deep  empathy, I've written in my character notes as well that like this goes even further to sex being one of the most intimate things there is, like I kno we jest and jape abt Teens Doing Dumb Shit bc we're clowns 

but the sheer vulnerability you have to have esp in a first love situation to be willing to go through with that for the first time ever takes a lot of trust and courage, aspects I think Trish was able to give him and would solidify in asking something seen as so important for many people from him, the headstrong Trish wants to be vulnerable for him and the slowly confidence boosted Narancia wants to accept that faith and trust and love and exchange it with his own of the same for her, it's not horny teens 100% it's two hurt but hopeful kids on the verge of having to be adults wanting to find another piece of identity in how they are with someone else, obvs it will forever be offscreen bc pedos deserve to be skinned alive 

I just feel that the components that would fuel them to do something teens try to do to feel more adult and bc hormones are a lot more based in growing maturity than pure lust, I think this is what I fully mean by Writing About Teens Exploring Love And Sexuality; Not Fetishizing And Reveling In Showing The Act Itself Especially For Disgusting Titillation, I think this and not explicitly writing the sex are the difference between child porn and creating realistic characters

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:36 AM

Yeah, it is going to sound like a dumb take but the topic of sex and sexuality itself is not inherently sexual, by which I meant it isn’t the focus — there’s SO much more to it and in this case especially it can be like the ultimate sign of love, trust, intimacy, compassion, trying to make your way as a teen through a harsh world, like I can go on. Nasties Dont Interact but the shying away from the mere mention of it in a non-sexualized context is unrealistic. 

 Yes The Grateful Dead fight i 1000% agree is so important in both his personal growth and the development of their relationship, I think it’s an important parallel that he is dumbfounded about her going to such lengths to keep him alive without the sense of duty/obligation versus Trish’s feelings and outbursts of confusion on why Bucciarati and his gang even cared about her, protecting her to the point of death being on the line.(edited)

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:44 AM

all these elements of complication and similarities between their characters is why ive gotten so passionate about both them and their relationship (whether romantic or platonic it’s really fucking strong and good), the story of two kids making it through adversity, learning to unshoulder their burdens and lean on others, the Found Family™️, and learning and growing together is just so much more fucking deep and complex than the mainstream bs that exists. 

now im not any type of elitist hipster but esp in male and female relationships portrayed in what feels like basically fucking everything are just like CompHet Bullshit and they’re together bc They Are Just Supposed To Be (not to mention the toxic masculinity culture within that where the women barely have character arcs and are just seen as objects anyways) But what I’m trying to say is that in this the relationship is real and it feels earned in a way that just isn’t there in so much other media out there(edited)

nozomijoestarToday at 1:48 AM

Honestly if we tweak this just a lil more this is basically Guts and Casca One of the greatest and saddest romances ever written

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:48 AM

i still have berserk bookmarked just haven’t gotten around to reading yet

nozomijoestarToday at 1:48 AM

If VA was a Seinen it's p much Berserk In Italy Also big brain...galaxy brain...everything you said was a fact signed sealed and delivered(edited)

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:51 AM

Wow we’re actually in sync and using the brain cell to its fullest extent tonight

nozomijoestarToday at 1:51 AM

When I say she's his world and he's hers this is what I mean, not comphet hdhdhfhYEAH HFHDG

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:52 AM

(also my phone autocorrected “and” to “ANF” bc of twdg..... it also sometimes changes it to “AMD” bc I work in technology. My Phone Knows My Interests Are More Important To Me Than One Of The Main Parts Of Speech. Iconic)YESSSS they’re just SO GOOD there’s so much to articulate!

nozomijoestarToday at 1:55 AM

She was his Queen, and god help anyone who disrespected his Queen

epickinnienaranciaToday at 1:55 AM

JDBDHE SHIT THE FUCK IP DKDBEBDJFBBD

nozomijoestarToday at 1:56 AM

Buy my silence $8000 a month