#also translation Cú Chulainn just means The Hound of Culann

[wodania]

@ludcake ask continued

okay so after reading this story I did some deep diving bc I’m fascinated by the evolution of folktales over time and I wanted to get how the Cú I was familiar with became the Cú in this story! And now I’m obsessed with this super niche story akdjakjd. This is super long because when I tell you I fell into a rabbit hole, I fell into a rabbit hole:

So from what I’ve gathered from a basic internet search, this is a variation of the Giant’s Causeway tale of Fionn, Sadhbh, and Benandonner. There’s two variations of this story itself that I’ve found: one is the story of Sadhbh, Fionn’s wife, outsmarting Benandonner in a similar manner to the tale you shared. The other is one of Fionn fighting Benandonner while dressed as a baby. Benandonner does appear to be Scottish, while Cú is very much Irish, being from the Irish Kingdom of Ulster. This specific variation seems to be from the 1800s, or at least was first written down during that period.

My theory is that Cú was much more iconic of a character so he was the chosen replacement for Benandonner. The only difference honestly seems to be the name, since Cú is given all the same characteristics Benandonner appears to have had. Cú was small, that was kind of his whole thing, but he does have a story attached to him that’s sort of like this one. Cú Chulainn and Queen Medb had a truce that Cú would refrain from killing Medb’s men as long as she sent up a man for him to duel every so often. He defeated each man she sent, so eventually she tricked Cú’s only match into fighting him. Fer Diad and Cú end up fighting for days before Cú finally slays Fer Diad with the Fir Bolg, which is basically a war crime on a stick, and also why it took him days to actually use it. The Fir Bolg exploded into barbed shrapnel inside of Fer Diad, killing him, and Cú was half dead and miserably grieving his lost companion (these two have heavy Achilles/Patroclus vibes to them btw). I’m not sure if this tale had any motivation for facing off Cú and Fionn in a “strongest man vs strongest man” contest, but it might. Cú and Fer Diad were both like, seventeen, though. Another point of discussion I saw was just that it’d be cool for iconic Irish heroes to face off against each other, even if it went against Irish canon. The Hound vs Fionn in this story was the original power scaling fanfic basically, and the author decided Fionn was stronger obviously, considering Cú’s killed by Fionn dressed as a baby. A bit reminiscent of Cú wearing a fake beard so that men would fight him, since he was actually the baby the whole time and no one wanted to fight a literal teenager.

As for Oonagh/Sadhbh, I’ve found that Oonagh and Sadhbh are actually interchangeable when it comes to the Giant’s Causeway story. Some retellings of this story include Sadhbh, who has an entire myth dedicated to her and Fionn’s love story, and others include Oonagh, who I don’t know much about. In fact, any mention of her in reference with Fionn that I found is exclusively linked to the Giant’s Causeway.

And as a final note about the giants, since that’s super interesting to me: it seems that’s a simple case of religious bastardization. All of the aforementioned characters are pagan. Their stories include gods, druids, fairies, and the like, so it makes sense that they’d eventually change once they started being told by Christian storytellers. As far back as the 1800s, scholars were writing about how Irish myths had been “dumbed down.” From the Giant’s Causeway wiki article, “the pagan gods of Ireland [...] grew smaller and smaller in the popular imagination until they turned into the fairies; the pagan heroes grew bigger and bigger until they turned into the giants,” (Fairy and Folktales of The Irish Peasantry, 1888), which is honestly a good way of putting it.

Have you read Celtic Fairy Tales by Joseph Jacobs? Your recent Cu Chullain posting reminded me of one of my favorite fables from that book, about how Fionn's wife fools Cu when he tries to check if Fionn is as strong as Cu is

I don’t own anything with that story in it now that I’m checking things over, unless I’m missing it, which sounds in character for me 😭 i can’t find anything online about it (during my 1 minute search) which definitely isn’t unheard of with Irish folklore, and I’m super curious about what the story is since it sounds like the exactly sort of scenario Cú would find himself in akdjksjd

[incorrect-ulster-cycle]

How tall was cu?

smol

*** ETA wow the markdown of this post is fucked on mobile, really sorry about that, will try and fix now but idk if it'll screw it up on desktop if I do, argh. here's a better version of the post that's definitely formatted right. it seems impossible to write long posts that are equally readable on mobile and desktop! ***

Okay, actually, there’s not a lot of consistency about this. He’s a literal child in quite a few stories, so definitely small in those, but most of them are more interested in describing his hair than his size. Here are all the actual quotes I found regarding his size from the two main recensions of the Táin. It doesn’t look like he’s described much in other texts, hence the focus on TBC.

[TBC-I: Táin Bó Cúailnge Recension 1, ed and trans Cecile O’Rahilly; TBC-II: Táin Bó Cúailnge from the Book of Leinster, ed and trans and Cecile O’Rahilly.]

Starting with TBC-II because it has the most to say about his size:

Fergus talking about Cú Chulainn:

‘the little lad, my fosterson and the fosterson of Conchobor. Cú Chulainn na Cerdda, the Hound of Culann the Smith he is called’.

Medb compares Cú Chulainn to an ‘ingen’, or adolescent girl; she’s talking about his age, but she could easily have disparaged his youth while comparing him to the boy-troop or something, so I read the phrasing as meant to imply small size and/or failure to adequately perform masculinity (the two can be related):

‘Is áes ingini macdacht ármthir leis’ (he’s only the age of a big girl - Carson’s translation)

Of course, it’s unclear whether she’s just trash-talking him. In the context of the following quotes, though, I’d suggest probably not:

Cú Chulainn to Etarcomol:

‘But if only you knew it, the little creature you are looking at, namely, myself, is wrathful.’

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, PEEPS. Cú Chulainn is just a litel creacher… he cannot help this…

Etarcomol about Cú Chulainn:

‘I swear by the gods whom I worship never to retreat until I carry off as a trophy the head of yon little deer, Cú Chulainn’

Cúr talking about Cú Chulainn:

‘Ye think little of our valour, ye think it wonderful, when ye match me with a tender stripling such as he’

Lóch about Cu Chulainn:

‘I shall not go on such an errand for I deem it no honour to attack a youthful, beardless stripling’

(Stripling may just be a comment on his youth rather than size, but carries implications of being small)

Láeg repeatedly calls him ‘Little Cú’, ‘little Hound’ etc, but that could be ironic (alternatively, Láeg is elsewhere described as being quite tall, so maybe most people are ‘little’ to him). See also: ‘distorted little sprite’.

Moving to TBC-I:

Fedelm about Cú Chulainn:

‘I see a tall man in the plain who gives battle to the host.’

This line isn’t in her prophecy in TBC-II, where she describes him only as a ‘fair man’ and a ‘young lad’, and the Irish actually just says ‘fer mór’ which could as easily be read as ‘great man’ or ‘famous man’, and certainly doesn’t carry unambiguous height implications.

It’s the only description I can find of him as being tall and it doesn’t seem to hold up to much scrutiny.

He is briefly described as ‘broad' at the very end of the text, but he’s wearing twenty-four shirts at the time, which I think would make anybody broad. The Irish adjective in question is ‘cetherlethan’ which seems fairly ambiguous (it looks like it means ‘four-sided’?) and might just mean ‘capacious’, though what that’s meant to mean in context is unclear – probably why O’Rahilly went for ‘broad’.

Alternatively, Cú Chulainn is square.

Probably those twenty-four shirts that did it.

Láeg calls him ‘little Cú’ again, though slightly less often?

Fer Diad’s charioteer argues that ‘Cú Chulainn is no small hidden trifle’, mostly because Fer Diad was implying he might have failed to spot Cú Chulainn – implication being, ‘Look, he’s not so small I wouldn’t be able to see him,’ but might suggest not reading him as tiny.

On the whole, though, fewer descriptions of his size in the first recension.

So yeah, he’s not described in terms of size very often, but he definitely seems implied to be small based on how often others describe him as a ‘boy’, a ‘youth’, a ‘beardless boy’, a ‘little lamb’, and occasionally there are genuine suggestions of small size, including from Cú Chulainn himself (who probably wouldn’t trash-talk himself).

But while composing this answer I did discover that R1 of the Táin apparently de-emphasises this, so that’s fun. I learned me a thing. Amazing what putting too much effort into Tumblr asks can do for your academic research.

Texts other than the Táin, including ones where he seems to be an actual adult rather than a tiny rage teen:

Mesca Ulad describes him as a

‘little black-browed man, greatly resplendent’

(translation by… Hennessy, I think, but this online edition is appallingly badly formatted as it clearly can’t cope with the Gaelchló and it’s all been rendered incomprehensible; in his introduction the translator seems concerned about this description and tries to explain away why they’d suggest Cú Chulainn is ‘of small stature’.)

The only other text I can find from a cursory search that involves actual physical description of him is Tochmarc Emire, and it doesn’t say how tall he is, just calls him a “dark, sad man”, but does juxtapose this with a description of Láeg as “long-sided” (i.e. tall), so you feel like if he was also tall they’d have mentioned it.

One other consideration is the ríastrad, which makes him bigger in his distortion by stretching him to inhuman size. E.g. in Fled Bricrenn:

'he strained himself till a warrior’s foot could find room between each pair of ribs'

(Henderson’s translation)

In the main description of him in Fled Bricrenn, it also describes him as a ‘sad, melancholy man’ and juxtaposes him with the ‘very slender, tall’ Láeg, evidently drawing on the same ideas as Tochmarc Emire.

tl;dr Cú Chulainn is (probably) smol except arguably during the ríastrad, and I spent way too long pulling out quotes to back that up

[littleroma]

Question time

Tagged by @stereden

RULES: Always post the rules. Answer the questions asked, then write 11 new ones. Tag 11 people to answer your questions, as well as the person who tagged you.

1. Paper or e-book? I can’t actually hold paper books anymore (my hands are pretty much shot to hell) so e-book, I love my little Kindle.  God I’m going to get so much flack for that aren’t I?

2. Which deceased celebrity/famous person would you bring back to life and why? Johnny Cash, I love his music, I’ve got the big San Quentin poster of his hanging behind my bedroom door, just giving me the finger all the time!  Or Freddie Mercury, because he was an amazing performer and I would loved to have seen Queen live

3. Favourite fairy tale? Why? I’ve got three, and they all have their roots in Irish and Celtic history, is that okay? Cú Chulainn, also spelt Cú Chulaind or Cúchulainn ([kuːˈxʊlˠɪnʲ] ( listen); Irish for "Culann's Hound") and sometimes known in English as Cuhullin /kəˈhʊlᵻn/,[1] is an Irish mythological hero who appears in the stories of the Ulster Cycle, as well as in Scottish and Manx folklore.[2] He is believed to be an incarnation of the god Lugh, who is also his father.[3][4][5] His mother is the mortal Deichtine, sister of Conchobar mac Nessa.Born Sétanta, he gained his better-known name as a child, after killing Culann's fierce guard-dog in self-defence and offered to take its place until a replacement could be reared. At the age of seventeen he defended Ulster single-handedly against the armies of queen Medb of Connacht in the famous Táin Bó Cúailnge ("Cattle Raid of Cooley"). It was prophesied that his great deeds would give him everlasting fame, but his life would be a short one. He is known for his terrifying battle frenzy, or ríastrad[6] (translated by Thomas Kinsella as "warp spasm"[7] and by Ciaran Carson as "torque"[8]), in which he becomes an unrecognisable monster who knows neither friend nor foe. He fights from his chariot, driven by his loyal charioteer Láeg and drawn by his horses, Liath Macha and Dub Sainglend. In more modern times, Cú Chulainn is often referred to as the "Hound of Ulster".[9]

Of course, I copied that and the other two from Wikipedia

Children of Lear

Bodb Derg was elected king of the Tuatha Dé Danann, much to the annoyance of Lir. To appease Lir, Bodb gave one of his daughters, Aoibh, to him in marriage. Aoibh bore Lir four children: one girl, Fionnuala, and three sons, Aodh and twins, Fiachra and Conn.

Aoibh died, and her children missed her terribly. Wanting to keep Lir happy, Bodb sent another of his daughters, Aoife, to marry Lir.

Jealous of the children's love for each other and for their father, Aoife plotted to get rid of the children. On a journey with the children to Bodb's house, she ordered her servant to kill them, but the servant refused. In anger, she tried to kill them herself, but did not have the courage. Instead, she used her magic to turn the children into swans. When Bodb heard of this, he transformed Aoife into an air demon for eternity.

As swans, the children had to spend 300 years on Lough Derravaragh (a lake near their father's castle), 300 years in the Sea of Moyle, and 300 years on the waters of Irrus Domnann[2][3] Erris near to Inishglora Island (Inis Gluaire).[4] To end the spell, they would have to be blessed by a monk. While the children were swans, Saint Patrick converted Ireland to Christianity.

And the Legend Behind The Giants Causeway

In overall Irish mythology, Fionn mac Cumhaill is not a giant but a hero with supernatural abilities. In Fairy and Folk Tales of the Irish Peasantry (1888) it is noted that, over time, "the pagan gods of Ireland [...] grew smaller and smaller in the popular imagination, until they turned into the fairies; the pagan heroes grew bigger and bigger, until they turned into the giants".[12] There are no surviving pre-Christian stories about the Giant's Causeway, but it may have originally been associated with the Fomorians (Fomhóraigh);[13] the Irish name Clochán na bhFomhóraigh or Clochán na bhFomhórach means "stepping stones of the Fomhóraigh". The Fomhóraigh are a race of supernatural beings in Irish mythology who were sometimes described as giants and who may have originally been part of a pre-Christian pantheon.[14]

Goodness you’d be forgiven for thinking that I was a rampant nationalist but Mum had a big book of Irish Legends and Fairy Tales when I was growing up, so I probably heard more about those stories than I did about Thumblina and such.  I also went to a Catholic/Nationalist primary school and I can remember the teachers reading us those stories.

4. What is your favourite season and why? Summer, because I can see more of my extended family, we’re all spread over Ireland and one in America!  And I tend to get less pain in the summer months, right now I’m a little ball of pain

5. If you could do any sport or hobby, what would it be? Wheelchair rugby (so very cool) or Gaelic Football

6. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a kid? (like <12) Honestly?  I think at one stage I want to be a postwoman (then I realised that dogs would bark at me so that put me off) then a teacher

7. Do you speak multiple languages? I learned Spanish and French is school but I can’t remember enough to converse.  I might have learned a tiny bit of Irish but I’m not sure.  So unless sarcasm counts?  Only English

8. What language would you like to learn? French or Irish, one of the hospitals I go to is in West Belfast and I’d love to even be able to read the Irish on the road signs, even though the signs are also in English, it would be interesting

9. Harry Potter or His Dark Materials? Harry Potter far and away, did you know I finished reading the first Harry Potter book in a hospital in France when I had been knocked down?

10. What TV show would you like to live in? Oh, now that’s a difficult one maybe Doctor Who?

11. If you could have the power to convince ONE person in the world that your opinion is the right one and that they would change their actions in consequence, who would it be? Trump, or maybe the politicians of Northern Ireland

My turn now!

1. Do you have any bad habits that you keep thinking you need to quit? 2. Do you ever think I wish I hadn’t reblogged that?  Or I shouldn’t have posted that? 3. After you write a fic do you ever stare at the screen waiting for someone to comment or hit kudos? 4. Do you have a loud sneeze? 5. What is your favourite fandom? 6. Do you like animals? 7. Have you any pets? 8. Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings? 9. Do you ever feel like some elements of fandom are toxic? 10. Do you ever feel like punching our politicians in the throat (or balls)?  If so who was it? 11. Have you ever broken the law?

And I’m tagging…. @stereden @pinkpandorafrog @latessitrice @absentlyabbie @usedkarma @veryprompted @thestanceyg @nobutsiriuslywhat @leighlim @phoenix-173 @notbecauseofvictories and anyone else who wants to do it