#also obviously this does NOT apply to proshipping or problematic ships

[artzy-ari]

“*insert characters* aren’t gay and you’re gross if you ship them do you really HAVE to make everything gay”

Yes. Yes I do. Because maybe I want to see myself in characters I enjoy. Maybe I just like the dynamic certain characters have together and think they’d be cute or interesting as a romantic or queerplatonic pairing.

Also the implication that people having headcanons that a certain character is queer “ruined your childhood” is really fucking dumb.

Like if you personally just don’t like seeing a certain character be shipped with other characters, fine, whatever. But when you’re only going after the queer ships involving that character and are perfectly fine with het ships that comes off really fucking gross on your part.

“But this character wasn’t confirmed gay—“ okay, they weren’t confirmed straight either. Just let people have fun and enjoy things, it’s not hurting anyone.

Tldr; people who say ships are gross just because those ships are queer are stupid and we should all point and laugh at them

[dinosaursatemymom]

Hi!! I just wanted to respond to your question if kyman is a proship or not.

I definitely don’t think it is, at least if we’re going on the “updated” definition. This newer definition that people think is “proship” is being ok with or even supporting minor x adult, incest, abuser and victim, and other illegal or immoral ships.

This doesn’t really apply to kyman because Cartman isn’t a nazi - and I’m glad you pointed out that you don’t think he is because it’s evident that the things he says and does is to get on Kyle’s nerves. (And also he’s stated that nazis are lame in SOT and Post-Covid literally proves he’s not a nazi or at least has the ability to mature and not be a bigot - along with when he was dressed as hitler it was Liane’s doing).

But if we’re going off the base definition of “pro ship” it’s someone who “supports romantic pairings that are deemed problematic, as well as supports creating fanworks of this nature.”

And literally so many ships could apply to this sooo😭

The definition has been tossed around so much that it’s not really clear what the current meaning is. But I think most people think pro shipping is the first definition mentioned - which as a kyman shipper - I definitely don’t agree with.

And as stated, kyman doesn’t really apply because Cartman isn’t a nazi. Obviously they fight a lot and go to the extremes, but this is also a comedy show. (And also it’s totally ok if you don’t like their dynamic or ship it - it’s just important to realize it’s not illegal.)

But anyways, I wouldn’t worry about pro shipping unless an artist literally draws or voices their acceptance of the aforementioned illegal and immoral things 💀💀

Sorry for this long response, I didn’t want to just direct message w/o warning

But I hope this helped a little!! And dw about responding to this if u don’t want to - I just wanted to explain some of the confusion around the term bc theres so much lol

Thank you so much!!! This is probably one of the best answers I have gotten, and explains a lot. (Also kyman is growing on me and the only reason I haven't shipped it is because I have been concerned about it being called a proship)

Also, of course I'm going to respond to this, this is one of the best explanations of proshipping and answers to my question that I have seen. Again, thank you so much!!!

[ghost-shipping]

The whole point I was making is that proshippers will make light and by make light I mean portray shit like that in a good light as if it’s ideal and desirable. And most of the proshippers I have personally met had confessed to wanting to try that shit out or hoping some of that shit would get done to them. And I’m sorry something I had witness was a “weak take” and yes the creator of those a hentais really shouldn’t have made them, I’m for watching porn and consuming sexual media as long as it’s not fucked up to that point, bc how many others have consumed that media to the point where they need to act upon their thoughts? And ofc this is going to apply to their real life bc fiction in fact does have that power. If you push pass the excuse that “these are just fictional characters and aren’t real” and think about the how the media you consume can affect your critical thinking, proshipping isn’t as innocent as anti antis try to make it out to be. And I’m not saying everyone is like this but a vast majority of people are susceptible to being conditioned

I apologize for not leading with condolences in my original post. Upon rereading it I do think it came off as pretty insensitive. I did not mean to imply that what you experienced was “a weak take” I meant the logic you’re using to analyze the situation itself is flawed. Obviously I do not wish sexual harassment upon anyone, let alone from family members, and I’m incredibly sorry that happened to you. I do think I got caught up in how deliberately snotty the use of your emoji’s was and how pretentious the subtext of your argument is but that’s no excuse to potentially come off like I don’t care about assault.

For the sake of argument though, let’s say you’re correct in that everyone is just super open to being conditioned to do things/be okay with things that go against the moral codes they’ve developed irl. Wouldn’t there be way more people okay with murder? There’s an awful lot of murder that’s over glorified and only there to be cathartic in fiction. Violent videogames have been shown to potentially increase general aggression, but don’t really affect people’s actual physical actions. There are tons of works of art where violence is there for the sake of it and not even in a negative way, but regardless of how many gorey movies or violent comics a person enjoys, they still react differently to real violence. Because it’s real and therefore elicits a different response.

People with good critical thinking skills and a solid grasp on reality consume problematic media and understand that if what they were viewing was happening irl they would have a different emotional response to it. I mean you’re literally talking to an incest shipper who’s repulsed at the idea of committing incest irl, for example. And if you’re about to say “well murder is different because i’m talking about bad things that are sexual in nature” then I’m afraid you’re missing the point. Because while that’s a line many people are free to draw in the sand for themselves, many people are also unbothered or are interested in bad sexual things in fiction in the same way they can be interested in fictional murder. And these “proshippers wanting to do things/wanting things to be done to them” are usually either talking in fictional hypotheticals or are referring to kink rp where there are safeguards to experience things safely.

But again, even if someone did actually commit a crime because they were influenced by a piece of art, that is not the artists fault. “They shouldn’t have made those anime because someone was hurt” every piece of media has the potential to hurt someone. If a work has themes or content that a person is not stable enough or critical enough to handle in a healthy way then they were not the intended audience, and random unrelated people trying to express themselves/make a living/both are not at fault for other people’s actions.  A person should always be held accountable for their own actions if they are directly harmful to others, but in this scenario that is your sibling, not people who you don’t know on the other side of the world drawing anime titties for an unreasonably small check.

Btw the implication of your argument seems to be that most people are too stupid to make choices and think for themselves when it comes to fiction, they they are beneath you who clearly has The Real Morals and A Good Brain, and it’s both condescending and is the same rhetoric used against women reading novels back in the day. People literally thought women were too stupid to tell what was real and what was fake and that this would make them commit adultery and be sinful. You and your friends who “ship the correct ships” are not the arbiter of morals or what other people can handle in fiction. 

[succliberation]

While I FULLY AGREE with your post (the one about how harassing people isn't proship behavior) I'm a little confused about one thing. Obviously harassment is shitty no matter who does it or why, but...how does it make someone an anti? Being an anti specifically means being against something. In this case, a problematic fiction enjoyer (comshipper?) who harasses people would be anti-what? I don't think "anti" means "generally shitty harasser" unless they're harassing someone for liking/supporting something THEY don't (such as a ship)

Again, I agree with your message, this part just confuses me. TLDR Anti has a specific meaning (being anti-[thing]), and I don't understand where it applies here

Proship = anti-harrassment at its core. That's the most important part. If you can't follow the basic principle of "don't harrass people over fiction", then that just makes you an anti, regardless of what you want to call yourself lol. Anti just means "anti-proshippers", which means pro-harrassment, as stupid as that is. I think the term "anti shipping" is entirely useless in that regard, as it completely disregards what proshipping actually is (and also leads to the conception that antis hate all shipping, which was what i thought it was before i knew what these terms meant). It's not "pro dark fiction" vs "anti dark fiction", it's anti-harrassment vs pro-harrassment, and the proshippers are anti-harrassment here.

Antis think that antishipping means being anti-dark content in fiction, but as long as they block appropriately, keep away from people who are doing things they don't like, don't call authors of underage fics are pedos or whatever, and are anti-harrassment - then they're proshippers. It's literally only about what your stance on harassing people is. If you hate dark content but don't try to go after anyone, you can still be a proshipper.

If you think that antishipping is ONLY about being anti-dark content - then congrats, we have all gotten lost in an internet war where words mean nothing and definitions shift anytime we need to start a new battleground.